Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities

Welcome to the humanities section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

July 18

First Greek speaking roman emperor

Which Roman emperor (east or west) spoke Greek as his 1st language & was more comfortable with it than Latin?--71.118.42.27 (talk) 00:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Diocletian perhaps? It was probably someone before the loss of the west. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Syria's reaction to Lebanon's political crisis

How did Syrian shi'a, sunni, druze and maronites reacted to their Lebanese counterparts' political crisis? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.118.191 (talk) 01:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Presumably with great trepidation about publicly expressing any views strongly opposed to those of the Assad dynasty regime, given a past history which includes events such as the Hama massacre... AnonMoos (talk) 11:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Bad Page Link

The page for 'William Howard Taft' (a former president of the US) comes up to some nonsense. The format is screwed up so that I can't reach the 'edit this page' to undo. Any help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.212.5.67 (talk) 17:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

This page? Where is the problem?--droptone (talk) 17:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I see it too, a black screen with some kind of vandalism, but it's only there when I'm not logged in. Strange. 194.171.56.13 (talk) 18:39, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Look at the corner at the top of the page. Do you see that lock symbol? Certain pages are semi-protected and reqire login. Often these are pages with a long history of vandalism (such as Obama). You can also locate a protected page when you aren't logged in if you can only "view source" rather than "edit page" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omahapubliclibrary (talk • contribs) 19:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

As explained here, it seems to have been a vandalized template that was restored, but the vandalism was still cached for logged-out users (logged-in users don't get to see cached pages). 194.171.56.13 (talk) 09:16, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Rights of EU aliens in the Netherlands

As a British citizen, living and studying in the Netherlands (two years and counting), am I endowed the rights laid out in the Dutch constitution (most importantly, article 110 promising freedom of information pertaining to administrative matters)? --Seans Potato Business 20:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I don’t know, but I think Postbus 51 will know. You’ll find a free phone number and a contact form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berteun (talk • contribs) 20:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I sent them a message ----Seans Potato Business 22:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Rights of EU aliens in the UK

Can a non-British citizen of an EU member-state demand information for a UK governmental institution under the freedom of information act? If not, what if they asked a British citizen to request the information on their behalf. Would the government have any right to refuse to service the request if it was known that the information would simply be passed to the non-British national? ----Seans Potato Business 22:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd imagine that the act would apply to all those legally resident in the UK. In any case, it would not be grounds for refusal if the information was going to be made known to a foreign national. If so, newspapers would not be able to publish what they'd found through the FOIA, since a foreigner might read it.--NeoNerd 14:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 establishes a "general right of access to information held by public authorities" and this right pertains to "any person" [1]. It goes on to list many exemptions to this right with regard to the type of information or the type of public body but I cannot see anywhere in the legislation that limits the access based on the status (nationality or otherwise) of the applicant - who is defined as "any person" who submits a request "which — (a) is in writing, (b) states the name of the applicant and an address for correspondence, and (c) describes the information requested". (Obviously this paraphrasing/quoting of the legislation available at the above link should not be treated as legal advice). Valiantis (talk) 19:09, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

July 19

Fantasy

Out of Harry Potter, The Chronicles of Narnia, the J. R. R. Tolkien series, and The Legend of Zelda, which is the order of popularity? 124.176.160.46 (talk) 01:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

How are you defining "popularity"? Total sales of all media types over all time with no intention of trying to correlate unique sales? My guess is that removes Narnia and Zelda right out and leaves you just with Potter and Tolkien. I'd probably guess Potter, because (hot) movie sales usually make book sales look like small time affairs, even over time for "classics". If we went with "sales by people who are still alive" I'd probably put Potter on top for sure, inferior product though it may be, but I don't have numbers to back it up. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 03:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

This compares searches on google for the terms:http://google.com/trends?q=tolkien%2C+narnia%2C+lord+of+the+rings%2C+zelda%2C+harry+potter%2C+hobbit

As you can see 'harry potter' beats everything, zelda is next; but narnia show an increase in popularity (probably due to the films?), tolkien is last..87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

It's worth noting that pre 2004 tolkien was very popular in searches, this no doubt is due to the films.87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:50, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

In terms of book sales see List of best-selling books giving the lord of the rings and the hobbit 150 and 100 million sales respectively. The harry potter series gets ~400million, narnia comes in at a respectable 120million.87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Pro Wrestling vs. Porn

Professional Wrestling totally grosses me out in the sense that it appears to be nothing less than gratuitous violence for the sake of entertainment. I can't help drawing an analogy to pornography which can be described in similar terms: gratuitous for the sake of entertainment. Why then is the public at large, not to mention the nanny authorities, so willing to accept and freely broadcast Pro Wrestling, not the least during family hour ? Not wishing to argue the merits and demerits of Porn, I would expect our "nannies" to be far more opposed to Pro Wrestling - it can surely be no more healthy for society !--196.207.47.60 (talk) 04:36, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not even real gratuitous violence but fake gratuitous violence. The problem is one could dismiss almost all forms of entertainment as "gratuitous" in some way. For example: Motor Sport - gratuitous pollution of the planet in the hope of a big crash, or Pop Idol - gratuitous laughing at the ineptness of some of the candidates, and so on. Frankly, once people are rich enough to have free time, the vast majority will usually spend it doing something pointless rather than building schools or starting the revolution. Astronaut (talk) 08:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

It would help if you explained where you're editing from. For instance, European sensibilities allow for explicit nudity and sex in entertainment media, while violence is strictly regulated. In the USA, however, violence in media is much more acceptable, while showing a single nipple for a split second on broadcast TV created an absolute uproar of indignation. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 14:03, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd argue that even in the UK violence is regarded as much less offensive, and is subject to less prohibition, than sex/nudity. It's not quite at the level of the nipplegate events, which seem completely bizarre to an outsider. But if you turn on the TV in the UK before 9pm it is quite possible to see people fighting or killing each other whereas you would almost never see nudity. The situation is probably different in the rest of Europe though. 86.15.141.111 (talk) 14:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

About two years ago I saw an ad for a no holds barred wrestling match in my town while at Subway. I later found out the match had been canceled. I never found out why. This seems to prove that not all wrestling is tolerated. - Thanks, Hoshie 09:20, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Off-topic to the original question, but a match being cancelled for an unknown reason doesn't prove anything at all, except that a match was cancelled. --LarryMac | Talk 14:41, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

The fact that a ton more people watch porn, and it is readily available via the internet despite age requirements for purchase in most countries may also be of influence. Also, basically all visual media kids are exposed to are saturated with violence. Why pick on wrestling? What about TV in general, cartoons, films, video games, comic books.... --Shaggorama (talk) 14:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

To get in NUS

YOU NEED TO PASS TOEFL TO GET IN NUS? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.13.2 (talk) 08:03, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Which NUS? Astronaut (talk) 10:21, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Since the IP looks up to Singapore, my guess is on National University of Singapore. In answer to the question, have you looked at the NUS website. My guess from a quick look is it depends on what you're applying for, and what your previous qualifications are. For example, if your coming from Singapore applying for an undergraduate programme with the Cambridge A'level as your pre-u qualifications you may not. If your coming from Japan with no previous qualifications taken in English then probably. In any case, I suspect IELTS and perhaps other English language tests would be accepted in place of TOEFL. Nil Einne (talk) 19:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Gun ownership

• How many people in the US own guns and do not work for the United States government, local, state, or federal?
• How many of those people carry in public? Mac Davis (talk) 17:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure someone will be along with the statistics in a moment, but I'll note that I've lived in the states for 25 years and never seen a person carrying a gun in public, with the exceptions of cops, gun shows, and rifles in the rear windows of pickup trucks. --Sean 76.182.119.200 (talk) 19:05, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

That you know of... I have lived here my whole life of 30+ years and know several. Not trying to one up you, just pointing out that you probably just don't see them. Dismas|^(talk) 23:57, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

So what you probably want are information on concealed weapon statistics. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

In some states, concealed carry permits are very hard to get, but there is (or at least a few years ago was) no prohibition against carying a rifle, or wearing a pistol in an exposed holster like in the Wild West. Edison (talk) 20:13, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

From what I understand, it's common for city ordinances to prohibit things like that in many locations, meaning that if you leave the city limits, you're welcome to cowboy up if you like by the laws of the state, if you have a license for the weapon, but if you carry a gun within the city, cops are going to take a pretty hard look at you and possibly get you in trouble. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 20:07, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

While a few of the largest cities (New York, Chicago, Denver, others?) ban open carry, I don't think nonconcealed carry is regulated in most cities -and sometimes state law preempts the restrictions (Nevada, Colorado except Denver, etc.). On the other hand some states entirely prohibit open carry. See more on this in Gun laws in the United States (by state). Rmhermen (talk) 00:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

There's a great map on the Open carry article you might like. There's actual something of an movement going on in some places, which sorta scares me. bad things have already happened. --Shaggorama (talk) 06:47, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

drug crop areas

My (DK) atlas has miniature maps of land use for the countries, but none of them indicate land used for growing drug crops. This strikes me as somewhat inaccurate, because I would have thought major parts of Columbia and Afghanistan were given to cocaine and opium respectively. Do they leave this out for diplomatic reasons, or is it simply because it is unverifiable (as far as the actual areas of drug cropping are concerned)? Are there any atlases that mark drug cropping in land use patterns? thanks in advance, 203.221.127.240 (talk) 20:11, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't imagine any atlas would have separate colors for every crop that could be grown. There would be way too many colors. If it's a world atlas with one page per country, it probably just has a single color for all cropland. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

And there are different kinds of drug crops. You need to look for a much more specialist atlas or map to find this sort of information.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:58, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

The maps (one per continent) indicate cropland by colour, and individual crops (or other land uses) by little icons. So a mini oil barrel for an oilfield, a cow for cattle farming etc. Columbia is mainly coca, Afghanistan opium, so I don't think there would be any problem with indicating this. The trouble is whether they don't because of a lack of specific information about the areas under cultivation, or so as not to offend the locals (my original question). Mapmaking can take diplomacy to the level of a sport at times. I'd still be curious if anyone out there has any info on this. Thanks again, 203.221.126.187 (talk) 13:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Typically atlases may include maps of major crops for different countries, but these crops would be legally produced. As cocaine and heroine are not legally produced or exported, nor are they part of any nation's GDP, it is not surprising that their locations would not be found on a map. Kristamaranatha (talk) 15:24, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

...and a little tobacco leaf? Tobacco is the largest drug crop.--Wetman (talk) 21:51, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

What were 5 challenges that Christopher Columbus faced?

What were 5 challenges that Christopher Columbus faced, including actual perils or even ones encountered by navigating several ships through strange waters? And how did he overcome them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.240.197.56 (talk) 23:55, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Christopher Columbus:

• Did not have the internet available, so had to learn navigation via charts and instruments.
• Failed to anticipate that so many people would not use his actual name.
• Did not, for most of his voyage, have any idea of his longitude.
• Cooked the books -- at least the one his crew saw.
• Did his own homework.

OtherDave (talk) 02:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget the cannibals, pirates, and sea beasts! And the general problem of moral degeneracy! --98.217.8.46 (talk) 05:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Are you referring to "rum, sodomy and the lash"? -- JackofOz (talk) 11:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

"How do I convince everyone including myself that this is China when it is so obviously not?" Adam Bishop (talk) 13:06, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

"Where's the bling?" -LambaJan (talk) 15:07, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

"Yo, yo, yo dawg. This ain't India—where's the muthaf'n curry and elephants?." --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

This sounds like homework. · AndonicO ^Engage. 11:10, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

July 21

how to explore World Music

Which world music would be nice to hear? say chinese or russian like that? Have anyone experimented? If possible, tell the shoutcast station for that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.23.17 (talk) 14:40, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

try mbalax from senegal specifically Ismaël Lô very good stuff, an i usually listen to metal. Its very techincal in its guitar work, and has some great melodies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

In my view there is no better introduction to world music than the Rough Guide series of compilation CDs from around the world. Take a look at this page, about Volume 1, and follow the links from there. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Another recommendation is the world music section of cdbaby ([www.cdbaby.com]). You can listen to samples. There's good and bad music from most parts of the world, but most people have their own preferences. I like world fusion (mixing modern western styles with non-western music). Cold Fairyland from China, Haydamaky from Ukraine, Corvus Corax from Germany, Ozomatli (Mexico/California) are some that have caught my attention. Steewi (talk) 01:17, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

"World music" is an ethnocentric term ("everything that is not from my culture"); you will have to tell us where you are from. If you are not from North American/English culture, then some suitable "world music" might include Guided by Voices, Spoon, The Beatles, John Coltrane, Radiohead? Etc. etc.? − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 05:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

It's an accepted term and it's quite clear what the questioner was asking about. From World music: "...a shorthand description for the very broad range of recordings of traditional indigenous music and song from around the world." In any case, you are wrong to list those artists, who cannot be described as world music no matter where the querent is from. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 06:02, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Accepted by whom? It is an ethnocentric term, and my reply was challenging that. Some other culture, say the Khoikhoi, may refer to non-Khoi music as "world music", in which case those bands would be included. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 09:51, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Accepted by many people such as the Rough Guides (see my first link), who can hardly be accused of ethnocentrism. Your understanding of the way the term is used in everyday language is flawed. It does not mean "everything that is not from my culture"; it means music that is closely related to the indigenous music of the region of its origin. Thus, Radiohead cannot be described as world music by anyone from any culture, because their music (guitar based rock, for the most part, with recent leanings towards electronica) is not closely related to the indigenous music of the British Isles. Whereas someone like Martin Carthy could be described as world music, because his music (traditional folk) is related to the indigenous music of the British Isles. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 10:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

That's interesting Twas Now. So would it be odd that in the "World Music" class I took we studied traditional bagpipe music from various parts of Britain (and Ireland)? Or how about the Appalachian folk songs we studied? As Richardrj pointed out, the term "world music" usually refers to music which is strongly influenced by indigenous musical traditions regardless of their geographic origin.--droptone (talk) 12:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

book writing

I want to read a book, however i dont think there is one writen with this subject, how would i get some one to write this book, or is there one already? Enoch from biblical times is born and lives his life, but never dies, and continues on having adventures through babylon, rome ect, becomes the wandering jew in the bible continues to live on through the dark ages, becomes napolian, but does not die, lives on to become Rasputin, and finally hitler, escapes and lives on. I think this would make an interesting story, fiction of course but is there such a book? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't know of such a book, though can recommend The Source, a historical novel by James Michener that pretty much covers the time period you describe. The plot is structured around an archaeological dig in modern Israel, with a story taking place in the time period for each of 18 levels – and in each story, there's a character who's a descendant of the previous one (but changing ethnicity). -- Deborahjay (talk) 16:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and for the benefit of those who might not follow the link you provided, I wouldn't call the Wandering Jew "biblical." Rather, the figure is based on a legend arguably linked to the Gospels, but certainly not the Old Testament. -- Deborahjay (talk) 17:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

A couple of interesting books with similar (but not nearly the same) themes are The Meq by Steve Cash (about somewhat immortal beings through history) and Between The Rivers by Harry Harrison (about Sumerian Gods, immortality and the rise of the thinking man). Steewi (talk) 01:24, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Not to be a wet blanket but I don't think the character development in the storyline would be believable. According to the Torah story Enoch was taken away because he was a good man but the rest of your story is stuff you associate with bad men. Unless you can really fandangle a way to either make him bad or make those other people and events good the disconnect would lose me as a reader. Otherwise I think it's clever and epic. Maybe find some other guy to be your immortal or have Enoch be, like, Ghandi or something. -LambaJan (talk) 16:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Seriously? A "wandering Jew" becomes Hitler? − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 05:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Your character could pick up some segue tips from this guy who started out in 1710 (but why start there?) and just goes on and on... Julia Rossi (talk) 05:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Simenon's Maigret

Hello,

I am almost finished reading Simenon's first Maigret mystery, Maigret and the Enigmatic Lett, but I have a few questions. I really am enjoying the novel, but I am puzzled by two things. First off, how is Maigret pronounced? I am not sure if the "t" is silent, or if there are any other ways to pronounce the name. Also, how do you picture Maigret? For some reason, I am having trouble seeing him in my mind's eye. I know he is very tall and has brown hair, but beyond that I'm at a loss. Thanks a lot! I'm sure I will enjoy reading the Maigret novels more after I know a little more about him.

Mike MAP91 (talk) 16:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

It's usually pronounced "May-gray". And here's Rupert Davies in the role, from the old BBC series, to give you one interpretation of what Maigret looks like. Malcolm XIV (talk) 18:46, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

The one that Simenon called his "perfect Maigret", no less. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I've just added an image at Jules Maigret. Xn4 (talk) 00:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

For a man who wrote a hell of a lot of words, Simenon had a curious take on writing: Writing is not a profession but a vocation of unhappiness. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Iraqi Real Estate

Does anyone know how to buy Iraqi real estate?--Elatanatari (talk) 18:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I imagine it's quite similar to any other country. First you would need to agree to a price with the owner, then sign and file the proper transfer of property documents with the appropriate Iraqi agency. However, there may be quite a few properties where the ownership is disputed for "ethnic cleansing" reasons. A Kurdish-owned property that was confiscated and given to a Sunni family may officially be listed as belonging to the Sunni family, but a court may later decide that the transfer of ownership was invalid and that any sale of that property is therefore void. StuRat (talk) 21:49, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

...and when you are all finished, there you are in the Middle East with a scrap of official paper stating your claim to occupancy, but no-one who knew your great-grandfather, no brothers of your brothers-in-law, all with rifles in the house, no neighbors of your uncles or cousins to take your part... just the paper...--Wetman (talk) 22:42, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Haha, I figured the process would be similar, but does anyone know any of the details, intricacies, agencies, quirks? Stuff like that. --Elatanatari (talk) 01:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by "buying" Iraqi real estate? What rights do you want to purchase? The right to say that you own it? The right to farm it? The right to assets and resources on the land? The right to sell it? The right to bequeath it? Property rights are not monolithic. What westerners mean by "property rights" is usually a collection of separately enforceable rights that may or may not be legislated in other jurisdictions. In a race to the bottom versus Myanmar and Somalia, Iraq is the third most corrupt country in the world, and property rights are more or less meaningless in a country that lacks basic law and order. Plasticup ^T/C 17:34, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Glad you don't want to know about real estate in Somaliland because you need to be related to a high ranking warlord[2]. Julia Rossi (talk) 06:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

19 year olds

how many 19 year olds are their in the united states? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.239.144 (talk) 23:54, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

According to [3], there were 2,107,162 19-year old males and 2,020,693 females in 2000. (That's makes for over 10 million pimples, in case anyone is counting.) For 2008, you might want to look at the figures for 11 year olds in 2000, which was almost identical to the number of 19 year olds. StuRat (talk) 00:10, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

For various reasons, not all 11 year olds turn into 19 year olds. Plasticup ^T/C 17:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

But StuRat said "almost identical" :D − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 05:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Isn't it more accurate to say not all 19 year olds living in the US in 2008 were 11 year olds living in the US in 2000? There are two causes of this, 11 year olds who die before their 19th birthday and net migration (both legal and illegal). I'm very sure the US has a net immigration (more people moving in then out). According to [4] (an anti-immigration site, not exactly the sort of source I would rely on but most of their figures are referenced). "Each year there are approximately 4 million births in the U.S. and 2.4 million deaths.24, 25 The growth due to natural increase (total births minus deaths) is therefore 1.6 million per year. Yet according to the Census Bureau's decennial census, U.S. population is growing by approximately 3.3 million per year.26". (I presume this includes illegal immigrants are resonably accurate as possible) The figures somewhat agree with immigration to the United States "Bureau figures show that the U.S. population grew by 2.8 million between July 1, 2004, and July 1, 2005" (3.3 million is bit high compared to 2.8 million but perhaps it's gone down since the last census?) and [5] states the preliminary number of U.S. deaths in 2004 was 2,398,343. In any case this leads to a net migration of ~ 1.2-1.7 million. This is lower then the number of deaths but bear in mind the vast majority of deaths are not in the 11-19 range. Of course most migrants are not in the 11-19 range either but some would be (some refugees, whole families, people bringing their children or adopted children in) my guess is the number of 19 year olds in 2008 in the US could very well be higher then the number of 11 year olds in 2000. It's probably not that different likely within the margin of error of the census but there's no reason to presume there are fewer 19 year olds in 2008 then 11 year olds in 2000 IMHO. Nil Einne (talk) 18:36, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

July 22

Economics: how do you share utilities in 2 apartments?

I am in the process of dividing a single family home into 2 apartments, each with a separate entrance. The house has 1 central air unit. I will have 1 electric bill, 1 oil bill and 1 propane gas bill for the total. Upstairs apartment has the thermostat and thereby controls the furnace and air conditioner. Downstairs apartment has no thermostat but could use a space heater or window air conditioner or could simply open the windows if he chooses.......My initial plan was to "estimate" utilities for downstairs renter (how, I'm not sure) and include utilities in the rent. Then upstairs renter would control the utilities and pay the bills (less "estimate"). Even if this worked, I wonder how the relationship between the 2 renters would evolve since they would have to be interdependent......One additional point of information. Upstairs renter has lived in the whole house 9 years and so we have a history of utility use for that period. I decided to divide the house because upstairs renter can't afford it by himself anymore. My taxes and expenses have been rising drastically and I think I can get more rent out of 2 apartments than out of 1 house......Economic and philosophical feedback is welcome.Quakerlady (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Having lived in an apt similar to the downstairs one you describe, the fairest thing to do is to have utilities "included" in the downstairs apartment's rent. It's not fair to charge them a fluctuating rate for utilities that they have no control over. You could charge the upstairs renters a fraction of the utilities based on their percentage of of the building giving them an incentive to conserve since they control the thermostat, but not charging them for heating/cooling the other apt. —D. Monack ^talk 05:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I like this suggestion. It seems straightforward and fair. Thank you.Quakerlady (talk) 06:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Even for the utilities his options use (window AC unit uses electricity, etc)?--droptone (talk) 12:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Have you asked the utility companys about the cost of installing separate meters? Since they will get more money (two standing charges, etc.) they may not charge much for the initial work. Depending on your market you may want to install private coin meters. When I was a student this was common, you would use the coin meter and the land-lord would empty it and pay the main bill. He made a mark-up on this, and it had the advantages that students are notorious for moving on without paying bills or leaving a forwarding address. Of course up market renters would not want to bother with coins for meters. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Just as an aside, the Utility submeter article is interesting. I just added a section on Utility submeter#Submetering in the world to describe the type of submetering I have experienced in a few European countries. This may not be relevant to the OP, who I assume is from the USA. -84user (talk) 14:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

As a former landlord, please believe me that, unless you want arguments every which way and bad feeling between your tenants, you need separate thermostats even if you are including the HVAC costs in the rent. It will always be colder upstairs in winter and hotter in summer and your downstairs tenant will thus be too hot in winter and too cold in summer because of the choices of the upstairs tenant. (And just wait to see what happens when one tenant has a new baby or the other has her very old and ill parent move in.) I don't know of coin meters in North America; I have only ever seem them in England, Scotland and France. The more separate you make things and the more you put under the control of the tenant in each space, the fewer the arguments and the fewer the complaints -unless you are a big fan of midnight phone calls. ៛ Bielle (talk) 16:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm almost entirely in agreement with you, Bielle, but I think you've got the temperatures half-switched. The upstairs will always be warmer - summer or winter. If the guy upstairs cranks the AC in the summer to cool his apartment off, the guy on the bottom will freeze. Come winter, the guy upstairs will be toasty long before the guy below can warm up. Matt Deres (talk) 17:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I know that, in science, heat rises, but my experience in houses says that it only goes as far as the ceiling on any given floor when you are talking furnaces. Unless there is a separate heat source for the upper floors, the lower ones all seem to "bleed off" most of the furnace's efforts before warm air reaches upstairs. Perhaps it is because of the longer ducts, or a deflection of the air to the lower floors first, in a forced-air system, or because, with rads, the hot water reaches the lower rads first, but I have never known a house in winter where the second floor was warmer than the first. (I have never lived in a house with electric heat; that may make a difference.) Whatever the differences in our experiences, however, they both point to giving each tenant his/her own controls. ៛ Bielle (talk) 15:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The top floor also loses more heat to the environment, in winter, through the ceiling. StuRat (talk) 16:05, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Heat doesn't just rise "in science" y'know; it rises everywhere. ;-) My post wasn't specifically based on an understanding of thermodynamics though, but on experience; there's at least a five degree difference between top and bottom levels in my five-level back-split, perhaps more. I've endured lived in student apartments on many different levels and never found any to the contrary of that, though the effect seems less in the winter. So in conclusion, yeah, he should get a separate thermostat. :) Matt Deres (talk) 17:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You could get a situation where the two tenants have opposing devices running continuously, say the upstairs tenant has the A/C on while the downstairs tenant has the space heater on. This can even happen unintentionally. So, I concur that you need to separate the utilities as much as possible. StuRat (talk) 16:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Poem suggestions for a composer

Marriage à-la-mode, Shortly After the Marriage (scene two of six).

Once before I’ve asked for help finding specific poetry for me to set to music here (I’m a composer), and the desk responded admirably. Might I trouble you again for a similar favor?

I’m looking for a few somewhat satirical poems (or excerpts of text). The poems should still be thought provoking and skillfully written. I was thinking of something that would be the poetic or prose equivalent of Marriage à-la-mode. Any suggestions?

The text must also be public domain since I’m creating a derivative work with them. --S.dedalus (talk) 06:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

There's the Robert Southey dedication to Don Juan (Byron), but it might all be a bit obscure. --Tagishsimon (talk) 10:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

How about Dorothy Parker's "From a Letter from Lesbia". (Granted, it might perhaps be a bit too self-referential for your request ;-) ---Sluzzelin talk 10:25, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

First thing this reminded me of: Ogden Nash's little quip on marriage (To keep your marriage brimming, / With love in the loving cup, / Whenever you’re wrong, admit it; / Whenever you’re right, shut up.).  :) Anyway, what about a modern reworking of one of the songs in John Dryden's Marriage A-la-Mode play? Or an excerpt from Chaucer such as The Shipman's Tale. I also saw that the satire article has several links to ancient and medieval satirical texts (eg Horace), best WikiJedits (talk) 13:07, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

How about The Rape of the Lock? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MelancholyDanish (talk • contribs) 03:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

This may be a little too heavy, but many of William Blake's Songs of Innocence and Songs of Experience are satirical and already have a musical quality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dukesnyder1027 (talk • contribs) 02:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Large Field Promotion

In the book Starship Troopers, there is a discussion of a Napoleonic era (or war of independence?) Midshipman who had a temporary field promotion to Captain due to a convoluted series of events. Heinlein called it the largest in-field promotion in history, and said the boy (who was 16 or so) was later court-martialled. Was there any basis to this, or was Heinlein fictionalising an example? If it's true, I imagine there's an article, but I couldn't think how to look it up without the name. Steewi (talk) 07:25, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

William Sitgreaves Cox. Algebraist 11:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Certainly sounds like Horatio Hornblower territory and the article mentions a few people that inspired those novels. Heinleins novel Starman Jones has a young man go from stablehand to captain on one voyage so its obviously a theme... 125.237.91.81 (talk) 11:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

David Feintuch's Midshipman's Hope is a SF novel with a similar theme. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 11:56, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Assuming the responsibilities of an incapacitated superior is not a field promotion, it is merely a responsibility of your position. A field promotion occurs when a superior officer says "You are promoted." For the temporary assumption of a higher position, there have surely been higher jumps than the four levels given by Heinlein. (e.g., sargent to colonel.) However, they occur in situations that are so disastrous that no record is available. -Arch dude (talk) 13:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

At least in traditional European armies, a seargent with the acting rank of colonel can't happen: a seargent is a non-commissioned officer, while a colonel is a commissioned officer. --Carnildo (talk) 21:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

There are captains and there are Captains. There will have been hundreds of midshipmen over the years who were captains, that is the senior officer of a ship. The rank of Captain, or Post-Captain, was permanent. So any officer, including warrant officers, could be a temporary captain, but nobody could ever be a temporary Captain. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Cox was the one I was looking for. Thanks for the help on that. Steewi (talk) 03:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Declining Economy in the USA

Despite all major banks and mortgage companies currently suffering losses in the US economy, is there someone or entity that is actually profiting from all of this? Is there an entity that exists in the US in which the US economy problems is not affecting them but actually benefiting them? --JennaHunter (talk) 14:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Oil companies are apparently doing well. ConocoPhillips, in 2nd quarter earnings, posted a profit of $5.19 billion, compared with $3.13 billion in the comparable period in 2005. NY times article. COnocoPhillips is one of the first oil companies to report 2nd quarter profits this year.

The companies that pump crude out of the ground are doing well, but refiners (like Valero) and retail operations (like your local gas station) have small margins now. -- Coneslayer (talk) 14:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, I read about companies that are paid by banks to fix up foreclosed homes that have been growing.

In addition, with higher food prices, especially with corn, farmers might be doing better than usual. Spencer^T♦C 14:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Not just farmers, but companies like Monsanto that sell to farmers. -- Coneslayer (talk) 14:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The farmers I hear from in Iowa aren't entirely sure if they're happy with the situation; like you say, they're getting more money, but their costs are higher, too. It's their suppliers and the processors, I think, that are making the money. --Golbez (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

People who sold real estate or stocks in real estate or financial companies at the peak made money, at the eventual expense of the people whom they sold to. People who have short positions in those stocks are doing well now. -- Coneslayer (talk) 14:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

As Coneslayer suggests, the real beneficiaries are the high-flyers in the financial industry who gamed the system and produced bubbles first in stocks, then housing, and now perhaps in commodities. They have reaped huge gains in the form of salaries and bonuses, which they get to keep when the bubbles pop and the deals that they made go bad. In effect, their gains come at the expense of passive investors, such as people holding retirement funds. Governments of oil-exporting countries obviously also benefit from high oil prices, as do some oil companies in the U.S. and petroleum infrastructure companies such as Halliburton. Marco polo (talk) 15:37, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Anyone who buys up cheap real estate now will do quite well when the prices rebound. StuRat (talk) 15:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

_{Real estate prices in many regions are still quite high relative to incomes in historical terms, and relative prices generally overcorrect after a bubble to below the historical mean before reverting to the historical mean, so it seems unlikely that real estate prices in most regions will rise above present levels in real, inflation-adjusted terms. Marco polo (talk) 15:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)}

In every single transaction, there is a buyer and a seller. When markets rise, buyers benefit by obtaining an item (stock, house) at a price that is lower than the price later in the day / week / month / year. When markets are falling, it is the seller who benefits. As long as we recognize that "up" is not good, and "down" is not bad, the rest follows easily. DOR (HK) (talk) 15:54, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I know it's a bit late but . . . overfed (and the question below). Anyway, I found this thread interesting. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 16:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Liquor companies always do well in recessions. Plasticup ^T/C 17:21, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Wal-Mart is making a killing, because people who ordinarily shop at Sears or Penney's are now shopping at Wal-Mart instead. There's a category of goods whose sales goes up when the economy goes bad -- Spam, perhaps, and maybe camping supplies for those who would otherwise go to Florida. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:29, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe that will stop the protectionists from turning this into a full-blown depression. DOR (HK) (talk) 13:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

It's worth reviewing Inferior goods and, perhaps, Giffen goods. Demand for the first of these increases when consumer income falls; demand for the second increases as its price increases. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The word countercyclical is often used in finance to describe companies that do well when the economy is doing poorly. They are usually companies that sell inferior goods, as tagishsimoon mentioned. The countercyclical article doesn't mention the finance defitition, only the economics one. I am too tired to find a source to cite right now, but I assure you, it's used on CNBC all the time. NByz (talk) 06:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Spam: The Ultimate Inferior Good -- Coneslayer (talk) 12:49, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Current News in Layman's Terms

Is there a website that list the current news of the world and explains it in layman's terms? For exapmle, a US man is not familiar with the goings on in Africa but just read an article about the unrest in the Congo. Is there a website that not only reports the current news of the Congo but also gives a bachground history as to why this is happening in the Congo? I hope I am explaining this correctly.... --JennaHunter (talk) 14:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The BBC usually has country profiles linked from news articles. They often have a background panel which links to more BBC articles such as key facts. BBC's country profiles can be found here. -84user (talk) 14:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

And dare I suggest it, if the coverage is there, Wikinews usually links information back to Wikipedia. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:24, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The New York Times website has this neat feature where you can double click a word/name/proper noun and it will give you the definition/biography/mini-encyclopedic article about it. It makes their stories much much better, as any confusion can be cleared up without leaving their site. Plasticup ^T/C 17:20, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

What is the legal age to get a tattoo in California, United States?

I would like to find out this information, and could not find it elsewhere. Thank you.--BurgerMan08 (talk) 20:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

According to this (seems reasonably reliable) it's 18, without exceptions. Fribbler (talk) 20:12, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

No exceptions? Really? Not even if you are 16 and have (both) your parents' permission? − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 05:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The way that I read what he said was that if you are at least 18 then there isn't an exception such as "you can get a tattoo but only if your parent signs a consent form". And the source seems to confirm this. It also confirms that if you are under 18 it is illegal, even with parental consent. Dismas|^(talk) 10:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

help finding correct term

A while ago I played a flash game on the internet about seducing black girls with unnaturally dyed blond hair. The game gave this stereotype of person a specific name, but for the life of me I can't remember it. It was specifically black or dark colored women who dyed their hair blond. Anyone? 79.76.186.83 (talk) 21:13, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

"Aviation blonde" refers to women who have dyed their hair blonde, according to the Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=aviation+blonde). Perhaps the term you're thinking of is similar? --Bowlhover (talk) 01:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Ganguro. 64.236.80.62 (talk) 10:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

YES!!! Thank you :) 79.76.186.83 (talk) 16:05, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Susan Rice and Condoleezza Rice

What is the connection between Susan Rice and Condoleezza Rice? -- adaptron (talk) 01:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

They both worked at State? They aren't related. --Golbez (talk) 01:57, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Right. [6] says "The Rices are not related". PrimeHunter (talk) 02:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that grain of knowledge. StuRat (talk) 06:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

reckoning years B.C.

How did people who lived B.C. reckon the year they were living in? For example, we say that Plato founded the Academy in 387 B.C., but what year was it to Plato, who despite his talents could not see Christ coming in three-plus centuries? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dukesnyder1027 (talk • contribs) 01:58, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Many calendars with different years have been used through the times, and more than one is still used. See List of calendars. Hellenic calendars looks complicated and I don't know what Plato would have said. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

He presumably would have used one of the Athenian calendars whenever necessary, but that wouldn't be very useful in everyday conversation. For that he would have reckoned the year in terms of the eponymous archon. Since our January-December year cuts across two different years in ancient Athens, the archon in 387 was either Pyrgion or Theodotus, depending on when specifically the Academy was founded. That wouldn't have meant much to anyone outside Athens though; another "multinational" way of reckoning the year was by the Olympiad (387 would be the first year of the 98th Olympiad, unless my math is horribly wrong, which is quite likely...). He could have also reckoned the year in terms of some other well-known event; the death of Socrates for example (399), or the conquest of Athens by Sparta (404), would have been useful personal and political events. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.210.170.49 (talk)

Note that the Anno Domini system was only invented in AD 525 and wasn't widely adopted until centuries after that. Many other year numbering systems were used before then and many are still used now. Regnal year numbering is still fairly common in Japan, for example, and according to the article was used officially in the UK until 1963. -- BenRG (talk) 10:36, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Photo identification

I'm trying to find the photo of a dirty-looking (rural?) girl from a poor region of China that won an award for depicting the area's underdevelopment. I've never personally seen the photograph, though, and know of it only because another person described it. --Bowlhover (talk) 02:03, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

She's not Chinese, but make sure Sharbat Gula isn't the one you're thinking of. Oddly, when I did a Google image search for "national geographic girl" to find that person's name, I also hit a picture of a Chinese (well, Tibetan) girl. Maybe this is what you're thinking of. Matt Deres (talk) 12:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

what qualifies as an essential governmental function?

what qualifies as an essential governmental function? I need to document this as well. Please Help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.83.64.218 (talk) 02:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Where and in which context? If the term is from a specific text then say which. Maybe a Google search [7] can help you. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:42, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

in the state of georgia specifically as used in the housing authority code —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.83.64.218 (talk) 02:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Most likely, the term "essential governmental function" is defined by the relevant code. If it is not listed in the code, it may be explained by case law. If you have access to a law library (most courts, law schools, universities, Lexis, WestLaw), ask the law librarian for help. To say more may constitute the practice of law.75Janice (talk) 02:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)75Janice

Genealogical relationships

The question above about Condy and Susan Rice got me thinking. Strictly speaking, all humans are related. It's just that in many cases it would be impossible to identify the exact relationship. I read somewhere, lost now, that it would not be be necessary to go back any further than 55 generations, assuming all the records were available (which they're not), to establish the exact connection between any 2 random people who have ever lived are alive today (I struck out the "have ever lived" because clearly humans go back further than 55 generations.) Is this true, and how do they know about the 55 generations? If I took a random Inuit and a random Kalahari bushman, is it really true that they're no further apart than 55th cousins? -- JackofOz (talk) 03:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Within 55 generations, I'd assume that they wouldn't be a part of the same descent, but it's quite probable that there'd be some common people in their family tree, i.e. they have 6th cousins 5 times removed in common. Quite an assumption. There are groups of people who might be exceptions, that is, people in the highlands of PNG and in the deep Amazon would be harder to find a link to. However, 55 generations might be enough to do it. Steewi (talk) 03:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

This is the concept of most recent common ancestor. According to the article, estimates for the time during which the MRCA was alive range from approx. 30 000 years ago to as recent as 1000-2000 years ago. One to two millenia seems to be the amount of time required for 55 generations. --Bowlhover (talk) 04:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

That makes sense. Thanks for the answers. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

July 23

Cakes and Ale?

In the Shakespeare play, Twelfth Night, Sir Toby Belch states: "[...]Dost thou think, because thou art virtuous, there shall be no more cakes and ale?" What exactly are the 'cakes' suppose to be? Cakes or something else?--Honeymane_{Heghlu meH QaQ jajvam} 05:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

According to John Leslie Hotson: Banbury cakes.—eric 06:37, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

See note at Cakes and Ale to the effect that cakes and ale are the emblems of the good life in the tagline to the fable attributed to Aesop, The Town Mouse and the Country Mouse: "Better beans and bacon in peace than cakes and ale in fear"..--Wetman (talk) 08:44, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Seashell Traveling

How many days would it take to reach the border of Scotland from London by carriage? How many days extra if the carriage was made of seashell?

Thank you!MelancholyDanish (talk) 06:56, 23 July 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish

What sort of carriage (railway carriage? Horse-drawn carriage?) and what kind of roads? That makes all the difference. I doubt whether anyone could make a useable carriage out of nothing but shell, which is very brittle.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

That depends on whether the hippocamps drawing the seashell carriage were winged or not. --Wetman (talk) 08:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, is the hippocamp African or European? 12.43.92.140 (talk) 16:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The baseline is perhaps the ordinary stage coach journey. An advertisement in the Edinburgh Courant for 1754 reads:

“ The Edinburgh Stage-coach, for the better accomodation of passengers, will be altered to a New Genteel Two-end Glass Coach Machine, being on steel springs, exceeding light and easy, to go in ten days in Summer and twelve in Winter; to set out the first Tuesday in March, and continue it, from Hosea Eastgate's, the Coach and Horses, in Dean-Street, Soho, London; and from John Somerville's, in the Canongate, Edinburgh, every other Tuesday, and meet at Burrow-Bridge on Saturday night, and set out from thence on Monday morning, and get to London and Edinburgh on Friday. In Winter, to set out from London to Edinburgh every other (alternate) Monday morning, and to go to Burrowbridge on Saturday night; and to set out from thence on Monday morning, and get to London and Edinburgh on Saturday night. Passengers to pay as usual. Performed, if God permits, by your dutiful servant HOSEA EASTGATE. ”

One supposes the hippocamps and seashell coach could improve on this, or why would anyone use them? Xn4 (talk) 17:21, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes! You've told me exactly what I needed to know. You guys are wonderful. MelancholyDanish (talk) 18:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish

P. S. The article doesn't mention this or not, so are hippocamps able to travel on land? MelancholyDanish (talk) 18:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish

No, the hippocamp London-Edinburgh route closely follows the North Sea coast, crossing The Wash and following the same route taken when delivering coals to Newcastle.--Wetman (talk) 18:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

education of 25 year olds in the US and France.

1. What % of current 25 year olds living in the U.S. have a bachelors degree or higher? 2. In France what % of current 25 year olds have a university degree? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.239.144 (talk) 14:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

As of 2003, 27% of those 25 and over in the US had a college degree. Of those specifically 25-29, 28% had such a degree.[8] I expect there's not a major deviation likely to be found between "25 and up" and "25 only". — Lomn 15:23, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

As for France, I find conflicting and dubious information. USAToday reported 20% "college completion" for French students vs 17% for Americans, while The Economist noted a 24% degreed European workforce versus 39% American. The USAToday numbers in particular do not mesh well with anything I've found elsewhere (note also that France's 30% attendance vs 20% completion flatly contradicts the oft-echoed ~50% first-year dropout rate discussed by The Economist), but that's the closest thing I've found to a single number. — Lomn 15:55, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

If you use OECD statistics you have some chance of making a fair comparison. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:20, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. You must also check that the definition of "college degree" is the same for both countries. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

OECD's online stats are hard to navigate, or I would direct you to the exact page. The International Labor Organization is another possibility. The definition of degree for France and USA will never be identical but you want to use the definitions that are accepted for international use. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:40, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Political prayer

Which religious groups, if any, accept (or promote) the use of prayer for political means, such as to influence an election or other political event? And among Neopagans and Wiccans, is it acceptable to use magic(k), spells and rituals for political purposes? 68.123.238.140 (talk) 16:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• For the second question, there's no way to generalize about such things; there are almost as many varieties of neopagans and wiccans as there are neopagans and wiccans, and issues such as the ethics of ritual are one of the distinguishing features. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 17:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd imagine it's quite common - for example as a child I remember praying as a group for 'the leaders of south africa to see sense and end apartheid' - that was in a christian church.87.102.86.73 (talk) 20:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh that sort of thing is, yes. Praying that leaders will be wise, honest and just is quite common in christian churches, but I don't know if that's the sort of thing they were asking about. Notice how that prayer did not ask for a specific electoral result, or even that those in charge be usurped. 79.66.124.253 (talk) 01:32, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

See Rule of Three (Wiccan). Wiccans are very reluctant to try to influence others. Corvus cornix_talk 23:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Religion and politics often get intertwined. See for example Christian democracy, Christian socialism, Islamism, Hindutva. Itsmejudith (talk) 00:05, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Indeed. Having formal separation of church and state is no guarantee this won't happen. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

July 24

corporate actions

How many corporate actions are available world over? What are the effects of these corporate actions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pratapbalu (talk • contribs) 08:11, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Not entirely sure what you're asking but have a look at Corporate action if you haven't done so already. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

See this random page from google for a list that's definitely not exhaustive. The effects will vary from action to action. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 08:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

If you are asking how many different types of corporate action there are, then it is impossible to give an exact answer to your question. It is a bit like asking "how many different types of transport are there ?". First problem is one of where you draw the boundaries in your taxonomy - is a tuk tuk just a sort of three wheeled car, or is it a separate type of vehicle altogether ? Second problem is that folks are inventive - just when you think you have completed your list, someone invents the Segway. I think SWIFT tried to create a standard international list of corporate actions and came up with a list of seventy or eighty types, but I am sure that is not exhaustive. Gandalf61 (talk) 08:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if the OP is a francophone? In French, action can mean stock share. Rhinoracer (talk) 10:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Is it true that...

Arabic numerals were actually invented in India?

Indian ink was actually invented in China?

What country were French fries invented in?

Any more examples of items with names that wrongly claim which country they were from?

--218.186.12.11 (talk) 12:24, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. See arabic numerals, india ink, and french fries.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:51, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Attila the Hun

Is it true that Attila got a sword named 'the Sword of Mars' before assailing the Romans commanded by Flavius Aetius? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.201.97.83 (talk) 12:44, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

why is sir gawain not a prince?

just wondering.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.107.154 (talk) 13:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

The usual methods of becoming a prince are being born to a king and/or queen or (in some countries) marrying a princess. Did he do either of these ? StuRat (talk) 13:48, 24 July 2008 (UTC)