Talk:Pakistan occupied Kashmir

STOP HIJACKING

POK INCLUDES NOT JUST AJK..IT ALSO INCLUDES TRANS KARAKORAM TRACT, GILGIT AND BALTISTAN..117.193.33.134 (talk) 02:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

This is a blatant POV fork and should be a redirect. And it is a little bit ironic that you accuse me of hijacking - and why this part of WP India? Pahari Sahib 02:41, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

cant u understand that ajk not equal to pok..pok is three times larger than the area of ajk..check!!Please dont indulge in wp:vandalism..use valid arguments..give references to prove "pov" and contribute to wiki.but dont vandalise by removing referenced facts..Cityvalyu (talk) 02:47, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't accuse others of vandalism, please try and read Wikipedia:Vandalism before proceeding. On the subject of POV - did you notice this? This page was moved to a neutral title, changes that you have reverted. Pahari Sahib 03:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

pahari sahib, you are vandal.why self doubt? you didnt talk on discussion page before blanking and making controversial removal of content...you also removed previous talk page discussions..what else is vandalism???? ..you removed all my edits and blanked the page without developing consensus..see history..you escaped by putting a namesake "redirect" edit with a silly fork excuse to avoid automatic vandalism detection by bots..you are hijacker and vandal both..not mere vandalKashmircloud (talk) 07:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

proof of vandalism/ undiscussed massive removal of content by [[Pahari Sahib]]

proof1

• 20:09, 30 August 2008 Pahari Sahib (26 bytes)
• 15:35, 30 August 2008 86.153.132.156 (6,236 bytes)
• 15:22, 30 August 2008 86.153.132.156 (6,208 bytes)
• 15:19, 30 August 2008 86.153.132.156 (6,181 bytes)
• 14:44, 30 August 2008 86.153.132.156 (6,214 bytes)
• 14:41, 30 August 2008 86.153.132.156 (6,201 bytes)
• 06:44, 30 August 2008 117.193.38.121 (6,167 bytes)
• 06:33, 30 August 2008 Kashmircloud (6,188 bytes)

proof2

• 02:20, 31 August 2008 Cityvalyu (Talk | contribs) (9,421 bytes) (removed vandalism...add npov tag if you cant contribute towards neutrality..all content fully referenced and NOT FORKED..stop false summaries)
• 02:01, 31 August 2008 Pahari Sahib (Talk | contribs) (26 bytes) --'sahib added a redirect page again (2nd time) with a false edit summary again
• 01:55, 31 August 2008 Cityvalyu (Talk | contribs) (6,659 bytes) (added referenced text)

one man has spoiled the contributions of so many users with an undiscussed move..he didnt even bother to prove his allegations of identical nature content in talk page.. if not for wiki requirements of restraint, i would have asked him to "f**k o** you vandal"..now he is acting as if he didnt do any vandalistic removal of well discussed and well accepted edits!!Kashmircloud (talk) 20:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

proven vandal caught redhanded

see : http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk%3APakistan_occupied_Kashmir&diff=235664596&oldid=235664266..it explains everything about vandalism by 86.***. (86.151.123.126)ip adress..vandals unwelcome..Kashmircloud (talk) 20:46, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

kashmir cloud

kashmir cloud the vandal used abusive langauge and i will not let this rat worm his biased point of veiw into articles and let him create garbage pages like POK 86.162.67.217 (talk) 11:03, 3 September 2008 (UTC) He didnt get his way in northern areas or azad kashmir when he was desperate to rename it Occupied Kashmir and attach pro india bias to those articles now he turns to indian editors like S300 to back him in his anti pakistani campaign this is simple if he gets his way just because a few indian editors back his propaganda i will all i can to revert his edits back to there stable level previously p.s he is the sock of 117 *** ip so kashmircloud i say this BRING IT ON 86.162.67.217 (talk) 11:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Biased pro india article

(edits irrelevant to the discussion on hijacking of pok shifted down..should we open a seperate page for anonymous editors)Kashmircloud (talk) 20:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC) no we shouldnt and whos has anyone ever agreed with you kashmir cloud ? or should i say 117 ip this article is a pathetic show of indian propaganda it doesnt even mention who uses the term "POK" this article makes it out as the whole world uses when only one country does i.e India this is seriously biased it should mention that only INDIANS USE THIS TERM AND NO ONE ELSE. 86.163.154.87 (talk) 13:48, 31 August 2008 (UTC) you have no neutrality in this article even a child can see unless your blind its shows how extremely nationalist you indians on wikipedia can be its time to change your ways the above user is known for his one sided bias towards india maybe i should make a page on Indian occupied Kashmir the one where recently hundreds of people are being murdered and protests are being held? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.154.87 (talk) 13:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC) Kashmir Cloud aka vandal nationalist of india your a lame excuse for a editor whos sole mission is to spread propaganda against anything pakistan such as Azad Kashmir while indian occupied kashmir burns (just look at the news) this article is another peice of evidence reminding of yoru childish rants maybe you should just join the indian army and kill some kids thats what you indian cowards usually do in kashmir this article is like a bollywood movie full of cheap material from cheap indian sites ITS PATHETIC 86.163.154.87 (talk) 14:00, 31 August 2008 (UTC) hypocrite kashmir cloud calls other vandals but is self delluded maybe it would be better if you just star in some indian nationalist movie maybe you can be the hero defeating pakistan what you say? 86.151.123.126 (talk) 20:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC) no we shouldnt lol no one agrees with you on anything then you go off crying like you did in azad kashmir page to console yourself you make "POK" good conselation prize page ha ha little kiddish behaviour 86.151.123.126 (talk) 20:36, 1 September 2008 (UTC) f**k **f is that kashmir cloud getting angry vandal showing his true colours you dont deserve anything fool this article will eventually be removed then you can swear and abuse some one else if your man enough do it in person or did your balls dropp off 86.151.123.126 (talk) 20:38, 1 September 2008 (UTC) Kashmir cloud get this into your clouded head THE POK ARTICLE WILL NOT BE USED AS A REDIRECT FOR ANYTHING ITS BIASED ITS YOUR CREATION SO GO AND CRADLE IT FOREVER AND NEVER COME BACK cheers 86.151.123.126 (talk) 21:06, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

needs mention

Maharaja Hari Singh’s letter of October 26, 1947 to Lord Mountbatten and latter’s reply to Maharaja on October 27, 1947, which reads as:

Maharaja Hari Singh said: “With the conditions obtaining at present in my State and the great emergency of situation as it exists, I have no option but to ask for help from Indian Dominion. Naturally they can not send the help asked for by me without my State acceding to the Dominion of India. I have accordingly decided to do so and I attach the Instrument of Accession for acceptance by your Government.”

Lord Mountbatten in reply to Maharaja’s letter writes: “In the special circumstances mentioned by Your Highness, my government has decided to accept the accession of Kashmir State to the Dominion of India. It is my government’s wish that as soon as law and order have been restored in Kashmir and her soil cleared of the invaders, the question of State’s accession should be settled by a reference to the people. Meanwhile, in response to Your Highness’s appeal for military aid, action has been taken today to send troops of the Indian Army to Kashmir to help your own forces to defend your territory and to protect the lives, property and honour of your people.”

On the basis of Maharaja’s “accession” India claims ownership of the entire State which includes the approximately one third of the territory currently administered by Pakistan.

The tribal raiders from North West Frontier Province descended on Baramullah, only 30 miles from Srinagar on October 24-26. Overtaken by their wild habits, they indulged in large scale looting, burning, raping and killing. All day, Monday October 27, while the Ist Sikhs of Indian troops secured their fragile hold on Kashmir’s only airport, the Pathan’s in Baramullah were giving vent to their ancient appetites for rape and pillage. They violated the nuns, massacred the patients in their little clinic, looted the convent chapel down to its last brass knob.

By the time Pathans resumed to their attack, it was too late. The raiders hardly realized that the time spent by them in committing their abominable crimes would turn out to be their punishment as it enabled the Indian forces to land at Srinagar airport on October 27 and ultimately push back the raiders inflicting heavy casualities on them. Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah is appointed head of the Emergency Administration.

source: http://www.kashmirnewz.com/history.html 117.193.33.134 (talk) 03:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Needs mentiona indian abuse in (IOK)

UNITED NATIONS

Press Release

xxxxxxxxxx OHCHR calls for restraint in Indian-administered Kashmir xxxxxxxxxx 27 August 2008

The Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights is concerned about the recent violent protests in Indian-administered Kashmir that have reportedly led to civilian casualties as well as restrictions to the right to freedom of assembly and expression.

OHCHR calls on the Indian authorities and in particular security forces to respect the right to freedom of assembly and expression, and comply with international human rights principles in controlling the demonstrators. The use of force should be proportionate to the threat posed and firearms must only be used in dispersing a violent assembly to protect individuals against an imminent threat of death or serious injury. The Acting High Commissioner calls for thorough and independent investigations into all killings that have occurred so far.

OHCHR also calls on the demonstrators to protest using peaceful means only. Leaders of the different protesting groups have a responsibility to ensure that demonstrations are peaceful and that the demonstrators are not carrying sticks, guns or other weapons and refrain from intimidation. Political actors are urged to take all necessary protection measures to avoid exposing people under 18, including young children, to violence and to manipulation for political ends. http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/view01/1058F3E39F77ACE5C12574B2004E5CE3?opendocument 86.158.177.243 (talk) 09:53, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Centralized discussion

I have fully protected this article pending discussion and consensus regarding the content and titles of Pakistan occupied Kashmir and Azad Kashmir. I have created a centralized discussion thread WP:CCN#Azad Kashmir & Pakistan occupied Kashmir#here. All contributors to this discussion are expected to remain civil and to leave any nationalist rhetoric at the door, with the ultimate goal of creating (an) NPOV article(s) to fully cover the topic. Thanks, caknuck _° is geared up for football season 05:46, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

status quo needed

clamp down not good for wiki articles..(anyway, pok not equal ajk is well explained at the top) only when clampdown is relaxed (say, semi protect- to avoid above proven vandals like 86.), can the article become balanced..there is no request for merger of three articles as suggested by kashmir cloud..status quo of all the articles with semiprotect will be fine! Cityvalyu (talk) 09:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

yes editors like me and kashmir cloud and 117 aka kashmir cloud will always edit unless articles like POK exsist 86.162.67.217 (talk) 12:47, 3 September 2008 (UTC) {{editprotected}}

 Not done. The edit protected request is used to request a specific edit to the protected article, like adding a reference or correcting spelling. If you wish to have the article unprotected, you may make such a request at Requests for Page Protection, though - since there is ongoing discussion, as noted above - it is unlikely that the page will be unprotected until there is a consensus on the dispute. UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 20:56, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion

This page was a redirect and as soon as someone decided to make an article proper with this hopelessly inflammatory title "war" broke out. Seeing the belligerent and entrenched positions of some of the parties, I want to AFD this article and let that discussion decide on whether to allow a fully-protected redirect or salting this title to prevent re-creation. __meco (talk) 11:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Well if this article is deleted you wont here from me or any other person who beleive this article is pathetic and was just created by some hot head called Kashmircloud who didnt even have a discussion before he created this ugly article. Also if it stays the same some other ips will take my place when i retire at the age of 85 after edit warring for 7 decades on this page lol. 86.162.67.217 (talk) 11:52, 3 September 2008 (UTC) p.s i beleive this page should be deleted would solve the problems in my veiw. However its not for me to decide as i assure you kashmir cloud will have a sissy fit once he hears about this hes the boss i reckon.

{{editprotected}} {{subst:afd1}} __meco (talk) 17:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I do not understand why the initial request to tag the article with an AFD template was declined. I have now nominated it for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakistan occupied Kashmir. Hopefully some alert admin will see to it that the article itself gets the appropriate AFD banner. __meco (talk) 18:44, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I added the afd note. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:13, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

this article has been posted for deletion..i have made the following appeal there:

• do not delete : PLEASE allow editing to take place in this article so that it gets balanced; disabling editing and then crying unbalanced is hypocrisy!!!..As we all know we didn't delete european union article just because there was an "england" article or "france" article or "germany" article (which are part of EU nevertheless) ... Similarly we did not destroy soviet union article just because it is divided into 15 parts..Further it is very very clear that POK is not the same as azad k as pok also includes trans karakoram tract, gilgit and baltistan (from 1947 till now)...pok term is used by most if not all non pakistan media.so ip and soman contention invalid.. i think it is not "fork" since contents are not identical, verifiable, has reliable sources and differs from the other articles like "trans-Karakoram tract" or "Northern Areas" (at the maximum, there is a passing reference in the summary(if this is considered fork) style with redirect links to sub regions).So, i am opposing this high handed move based on ignorance..rather i suggest that those who suggest it as non neutral contribute towards making this neutral, if it is not already neutral..pahari sahib's contention of inflammatory not substantiated both in talk page of pok or otherwise..so DO NOT DELETEKashmircloud (talk) 10:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

if you can improve this article or if you believe that the article can be improved by removing the edit ban(say, exampple: semiprotect) and if you also concur that pok not equal to ajk, please help in saving this article from deleters with nationalistic (pakistani)/ religious(islamist?) motives for POK article removal(example: User:paharisahib is pakistani)..please save the POKarticle...Kashmircloud (talk) 10:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

This article has been formed on the basis of a biased editor KASHMIRCLOUD as you claim pahari sahib is pakistani SO WHAT your indian and you created POK for your own satisfaction as you did not get your way on azad kashmir and northern area articles. The only nationalist here is you kashmir cloud you are pro indian theres no doubt about this just look at his edit history(maybe you have a extreme pro bjp hindu motive as you claim everyone else is a islamist Pakistani editor S3000 if you read this your freind kashmir cloud started this so dont go on and complain about me lol). 86.158.235.148 (talk) 11:58, 6 September 2008 (UTC)