Talk:African Americans

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Images

All the images of black and white ones of civil rights leaders. I think it may be better to have a bigger variety of images, after all, civil rights advocacy is not the only thing African-americans have ever done. How about a few musicians, perhaps Jim Hendrix? Muhammad Ali was named the sportsman of the century and Michael Jackson put out a record that sould 100 million units. Tupac Shakur, Oprah, Louis Armstrong, Bill Cosby, Will Smith, Chris Rock, Bessie Smith, a whole bunch of people in a lot of different professions exist that could qualify. Zazaban (talk) 06:48, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Well then, why don't you do something about it? Just complaining isn't going to get you anywhere. Roger (talk) 07:32, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Are you referring to the infobox? A discussion about it started a while ago at Template talk:African American ethnicity#Third Line of Photos, but it petered out. I think a better range of pictures would be appropriate, but I recommend against using people whose careers are still active. I've seen edit wars at other ethnicity templates (American Jews, for example) over which celebrities to include.

I'd like to propose that any further discussion be carried on at Template talk:African American ethnicity. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 19:52, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Under the title "Who is African American" it states that since 1977 blacks in the United States were declared African Americans. IN 1961 Barack Obama birth certificate says African American. What did the term mean in 1961. PepsiSmith —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.85.17.54 (talk) 18:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Intro montage

• I would like to suggest that we replace W. E. B. Du Bois and Edward Brooke with images of Frederick Douglass and Barack Obama in the intro montage. I would be happy to compile a new lead image myself if there is a consensus on the issue (I previously created the current intro montage for New York City). Any thoughts? --Jleon (talk) 00:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

-Oops, I now see there is an old discussion on Template talk:African American ethnicity that never reached a consensus, but I think it might best to have the discussion here (just for the sake of higher visibility). Is anyone opposed to my suggestion above? --Jleon (talk) 00:39, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a strong opinion on the others, but I don't think Barack Obama should be put in the montage. I'm not saying he hasn't accomplished anything, but he has only been in the public eye for a very short period of time compared to all the so many others that can be used. The argument has also been previously made that with the pending election, it could be construed as endorsing him as a candidate to use his picture for so many articles. Kman543210 (talk) 01:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

• That's a good point. One concern I have is that the image should not be so overly dependent on civil rights leaders that other contributions are overlooked. I notice that many other sub-ethnicity articles (i.e. American Jews, Italian Americans) have montages with more than two rows of images, so we should probably do the same here. I would like to create a third, or even fourth row that would include Harriet Tubman, Jackie Robinson, Miles Davis, Spike Lee, and Toni Morrison. Any other suggested additions or subtractions? --Jleon (talk) 01:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I never thought about how many civil rights leaders were in the montage, but that's an excellent point. It could make it seem like that's all that black Americans are notable for, which is obviously not true. I will say that one thing that I like about this montage compared to some of the others is that it does not rely on current celebrities and entertainers. What are everyone's thoughts about including Oprah Winfrey? I know that she is a celebrity; however, I feel as if she is definitely notable enough and not just for one thing. Kman543210 (talk) 01:49, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree that we should have African-Americans from a wider range of endeavors than politics and civil rights. With respect to Obama, I think his picture would be a mistake as it might appear to be an endorsement of his candidacy. Benjamin Banneker was suggested in a previous discussion. My personal preference would be to include African-Americans in fields beside entertainment and sports; a few entertainers are okay, but let's try to showcase the full range of African-American achievement. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 02:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there's doesn't appear to be any photos on wiki commons of Banneker. There is one of Neil deGrasse Tyson though, who is a noted astrophysicist. --Jleon (talk) 02:33, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Agree that Obama is a poor choice while he is a presidential candidate. - Jmabel | Talk 17:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I concur - if he gets elected then maybe, but not while he is a candidate. Toni Morrison would be a good candidate for a photo, as would Spike Lee, Guion Bluford to name but a few other choices. Manning (talk) 16:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

meaning of the term African American

-Limiting the term African-American to one of a group of people who "...are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa..." is an incorrect interpretation of the term. The definition extends itself to one who is either an African-born, American-naturalized OR an American-born, African-naturalized citizen, no matter the race. South African-born Dave Matthews of the American rock group Dave Matthews Band is one such example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.54.1.35 (talk) 15:47, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

In the United States, that's not the way the phrase is used. Please see the Talk archives, because this subject has been discussed many times before. Thank you. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 01:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but this person is uneducated. If you're black, I feel sorry for your self-hatred. If you're white, you must have anti-black antipathy. Look, Africa is a continent, not a country. It is made up of 50+ countries. Your nationality refers to your country, not continent, of birth. If a person from Nigeria emigrates to the United States of America, the person is Nigerian American. Kenya to the USA - Kenyan American. See this: List of African countries. The nationality is on their "Demographics of..." link. Oldnew (talk) 01:42, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

There are people who don't like the term "African American" for various reasons; however, it is a set term in the English language, and we cannot just go by our opinions for the definition. Here are how the sources define the term:

Random House Unabridged: A black American of African descent.

American Heritage Dictionary: A black American of African ancestry

Webster’s New World College Dictionary: An American having ancestors from sub-Saharan Africa; black American.

MSN Encarta encyclopedia: (American blacks or black Americans), racial group in the United States whose dominant ancestry is from sub-Saharan West Africa.

U.S. Census Bureau: A person having origins in any of the black racial groups of Africa.

All the sources are very specific that it refers to black Americans, as a racial classification, and not to white Africans who came to the U.S. I'm not saying that I do or don't agree with the definition, but it is what it is; the article reflects the current definition. Kman543210 (talk) 04:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Please people, give it a rest, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum! Roger (talk) 09:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Barack Obama

Under the Political Legacy section is says, "In 2008, Democratic Sen. Barack Obama became the first African American presidential nominee of a major American political party." As far as I know, his father was black and his mother was white. That's 50-50 people, he's no more black than he is white, so isn't a bit ignorant, prejudicial, and inaccurate to label him African American just because he has darker skin? What if he were born with his mother's complexion, would he be a 'European American' all of a sudden? No- he'd have exactly the same heritage as he does now. He's an African American/European American (or for simplicity's sake, half-black half-white) and like I said above he's 50/50- there's no way anyone can argue he's more black than he is white unless I'm missing something. DC Guy 14:43, 5 September 2008 How about telling the truth about Obama he is half WHite and half Luo Kenyan. This a fact in 1961 no Kenyan would label his child as a Negro, NO Kenyan living in America would ever call their offsprings an African American.

Please consult the archives - this argument has been thrashed beyond all reasonable measure already. To put it simply, it is not Wikipedia's job to decide "what is right" or "settle the argument", only to accurately report what actually goes on in the world. Whether the term is correct/incorrect, bigoted, ignorant or what have you is not actually relevant as far as the 'pedia goes. The media calls Obama "African American", Obama calls himself "African American" and the term (both in direct reference to Obama and generally) is in widespread currency throughout the entire English-speaking world. Many find the term misleading and offensive (and the article notes this fact quite thoroughly), but that's just the way things are. When they change, the 'pedia will be updated accordingly. Manning (talk) 16:10, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The term "African American" was adopted in 1977, however, Barack Obama was listed as an African American on his birth certificate in 1961. What did the term "African American," mean in Hawaii in 1961? Pepsi Smith —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.85.17.54 (talk) 18:18, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I think Manning said it pretty well that it's Wikipedia's job to accurately report reality (using reliable sources of course). By definition, Obama is mulatto, multiracial, mixed race, biracial, etc.; however, it is documented that he self-identifies as African American (or black American). The media also reports him as African American. Right or wrong, this is his chosen identity, even though many Americans consider him biracial. Kman543210 (talk) 19:08, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Who is African American? (suggestions)

The "Who is African?" section uses an acronymn that is not defined in any other part of the article: OMB

A Wikipedia search reveals that OMB has several possible meanings.

Judging from the context in which OMB was used in this article, I assume that the author intended OMB to mean "The Office of Management and Budget".

Reading from US Census Bureau webpage, the OMB does indeed set the standard for determining race in US Census data.

So, in addition to the fact that the current article does not define the OMB acronymn, it does not provide an example of the methods the OMB uses to determine "who is African American". Such an example is important to include since it is a DIFFERENT method of determination than the other methods included in the article.

Quoting directly from the US Census Bureau webpage, the OMB does provide a definition for its racial categorization: "They generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country. They do not conform to any biological, anthropological or genetic criteria".

So, the current article defines "who is African American" in the "one drop" method, or any person with a direct genetic connection to the peoples of Africa. However, the OMB method is much different and is worthy of note in this article.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/raceqandas.html

Barkleylee (talk) 16:47, 9 September 2008 (UTC)