User talk:Fredwerner

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DC Meetup notice

Greetings. There is going to be a Washington DC Wikipedia meetup on next Saturday, July 21st at 5pm in DC. Since you are listed in Category:Wikipedians_in_Maryland, I thought I'd invite you to come. I'm sorry about the short notice for the meeting. Hopefully we'll do somewhat better in that regard next time. If you can't come but want to make sure that you are informed of future meetings be sure to list yourself under "but let me know about future events", and if you don't want to get any future direct notices \(like this one\), you can list yourself under "I'm not interested in attending any others either" on the DC meetup page.--Gmaxwell 00:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I am from the Maryland subrubs of DC, but I do not live there right now. I visit when I can, and try to keep up on local MD/DC news, but I won't be attending any meetups. Fredwerner 06:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Bird collaboration of the month

As a member of WP:BIRD you are invited to this month's collaboration

Shyamal 02:14, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Birds March 2008 Newsletter

The March 2008 issue of the Bird WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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WikiProject Birds April 2008 Newsletter

The April 2008 issue of the Bird WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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WikiProjet Birds May 2008 Newsletter

The May 2008 issue of the Bird WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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WikiProject Birds June 2008 Newsletter

The June 2008 issue of the Bird WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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July 2008 Birds Project Newsletter Link

The December 2024 issue of the Bird WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. --Addbot (talk) 16:18, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Birds August newsletter

The August 2008 issue of the Bird WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. MeegsC | Talk 00:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for the Inconvenience

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I am greatly obliged. I had no idea that thinking that there could be humans on another planet among one of the other 70 Sextillion (7x10^22) stars was childish. I guess I don’t have the intelligence you adults possess. I mean it was incredibly ridiculous of me to think that there could be one planet or one moon in just one solar system, besides ours, among , 70 sextillion other stars that could be inhabited by people. I mean I am sure that the fact that we cannot detect Earth-sized plantes around even nearby stars in just a coincidence to the fact that they don’t exist. I always thought we found Super Earth’s such as Gliese 876 D because we could not detect Earth-Sized planets, but I guess I was wrong. I am deeply sorry for disrupting the encyclopedic content on this page and I will cease to edit this page for the time being. I will take your advice and come back and edit this page in 14 years when I will be 18. As an adult I will have learned all of these things that I certainly do not know. In 14 years I will be an adult and I will have a greater perspective on life. At that time I will come back and edit this article. Once again I am extremely sorry for including my foolish thoughts into this article. Thank You once again for enlightening me. Your Dear Friend, Maldek.Maldek2 (talk) 08:11, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thinking there are PEOPLE on other planets is childish. Thinking there may be LIFE FORMS on other planets is not. Most scientists suspect there are other forms of life in perhaps many many places in the universe. But once you learn the complexity involved in evolution, and how there are more than 70 sextillion decision points selecting random mutations that have caused humans to exist as we are, you will realize that the chances of humans arising twice in independent corners of the universe is infinitesimally small. And theories of people being taken to other planets, or arriving here from other planets are not widely accepted as credible.

Perhaps more importantly, you will hopefully someday learn why wikipedia insists on only reporting information published in reliable sources, and does not allow you to simply make things up ("original research"), or repeat things that somebody else might have just made up, with no credible backing to it ("unreliable sources").Fredwerner (talk)

Just Wondering

Hey sorry to bother you. I was just wondering if the chances of humans developing on another planet is less than 1 in 70 Sextillion (7x10^22) then what exactly are the odds for humans developing on another planet. I was just wondering. What is taken into consideration. What I mean is for human beings to exist on a planet the creation of extremophiles probably hyperthermophiles have to exist and through evolutionary processes they must evolve and become more complex, but in order for them to become more complex the atmosphere and the environment must change to facilitate more complex life. Things such as water forming on the Earth between 3.8 and 4.2 billion years ago from commets in the Kuiper Belt. Also the moons formation from when Theia collided with Earth. As the moon was created and slowly drifted away from the Earth the Earth’s rotation slowed down giving complex life a chance to develop and thrive. Is something like this all there needs to be for humans to be created? I mean once extremophiles are created on Earth and the environment becomes more suitable for sustaining complex life does evolution eventually just play itself out for billions of years until eventually human beings develop or is this not true? I mean as long as you have an Earth-Sized planet 1 AU (93 Million Miles) from a G2 Star in a good region of a spiral galaxy is it safe to assume that with the above mentioned circumstances: the creation of liquid water, extremeophiles, and a more sutiable environment for complex life, humans would develop over billions of years due to the natural course of natural selection and evolution? Or is this incorrect? If you could please respond to my question because I would really like to know the odds of humans developing on other planets and what factors are taken into consideration to support these odds. The fact that there is not even a 1 in 70 Sextillion (7x10^22) chance of humans forming on another planet is amazing. If you could enlighten me I would be much obliged as to what the odds are and what factors are taken into consideration to support these odds. If our solar system could be used as a model solar system then we would have about 300 solar system objects (planets , dwarf planets, and moons) in our solar system, not counting the hypothetical Oort Cloud. Thank You once again. This would mean that there is less han 1 in 300 times 70 sextillion, or 2.1 Septillion of a chance that humans could develop on another planet in just our one Universe. So if there less than a 1 in 2.1 Septillion (2.1x 10^24) chance that humans could develop on another planet in our Universe what could be the odds of humans developing on another planet. Thank You once again. Please help me to understand what the odds of life developing on another object in our universe is. I know the odds are less than 1 in 2.1 Septillion (2.1x10^24) but I don’t know what the odds are or how I would arrive at calculating such odds. I mean I thought that as long as a planet was in its galactic habitable zone (Life supporting region in the galaxy) and its habitable zone, human life would develop over billions of years if the creation of water, extremophiles, and a more life-supporting environment were created. I guess I was wrong, but if you could enlighten me as to what the odds are and how you came up with them, I would appreciate it very much. Thank You Very Much!! Your Friend Maldek. Maldek2 (talk) 08:11, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

The chances are far less than 1 in 70 sextillion. First off, even the evolution of humans from our ape-related ancestors was the result of so many individual selection moments on random mutations, that even if you STARTED with that same ape-like ancestors on another planet, the odds of humans evolving from them would be something on the order of 1 in 24,000^(2^5,0000). That's the number of genes whose alleles can randomly mutate and are selected for with each generation raised to the power of 2 (each reproductive event is a squaring) raised to the power of 5,000 (roughly the number of generations since our most recent common ancestor with chimps). Alas, I am not in my office, and I do not have a calculator that can calcululate 2^5000, let alone 24,000^(2^5,000). But this is many many times smaller than 1 in 10^22. And that's just to get from apes to humans. To get from whatever the first prokaryotic single-celled life forms that emerged on Earth to apes was a result whose odds were many many orders of magnitude smaller. And even the odds of prokaryotes emerging with a lipid bilayer membrane, and a a protein-encased nucleic acid genetic base code on a planet with this particular mix of elements itself are extremely small. That alone was probably less than 10^22.

Evolution looks very straightforward and obvious when viewed in retrospect, the only way we CAN view it. But given the truly astronomical number of possible mutations and combinations of mutations and resulting life forms that could have arisen, you don't have to be religious to marvel that it's truly miraculous we exist at all.

And that's why every serious scientist who discusses the possibilities of life forming elsewhere in the universe acknowledges that while the odds of their being other planets with suitable conditions for some form of life to arise are quite high, the odds of those life forms being identical to life forms on Earth are basically zero.

You would have better luck arguing that intelligent extraterrestrials came to Earth sometime within the past two million years, and took people back with them, and those people are now constructing buildings. But no serious scientists would believe that either. Cheers! Fredwerner (talk) 03:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

In Response to your questions

Thank you for responding to my question. I would be glad to answer any questions you have. (1) To answer your first question I am dissapointed that many of my edits are reverted and called Vandalism. The reason it upsets me is because in many cases I get my information from reliable sources. On my old account the orginal Maldek I used to edit many articles on Vedic Relgion, yet even though I gave accurate information it was constantly reverted and considered Vandalism. You would think that if the article was about someone like Krishna or Hinduism, that the Bhagavad-Gita would be a reliable source. The main problem though is that I guess Modern Science does not accept the traditional and authorative dates that are given in the Vedic Scriptures for the length and duration of yugas etc., so the source of the information is not a reliable source. It is like saying the architect of a building is not a reliable source for a building or an actor is not a reliable source for a page that is written about him or her. I have quoted Freeman Dyson and Adams and Laughlin when I edit articles such as the Future of an expanding Universe but my edits are considered vandalism. From my readings of The Five Ages of the Universe and Dyson’s Paper on Life in an endless universe all of the information specifically states that Stellar formation will cease in 100 trillion years yet for some reason writing this is considered Vandalism. I also had a section on the Hawking decay of black holes but that was also considered Vandalism because Consensus didn’t agree on it. The reason the Black Hole Disintigration table was very helpful to the article is because it explained how black holes of different sizes decay at much different times from small black holes decaying in 10^64 years to extremely large black holes decaying in 10^106 years. The size of the black hole and the time it took for it to disintegrate were listed in the Black Hole Era but Consensus is always against everything that I do and call it Vandalism. I find it dissapointing that people call it Vandalism because it is not Vandalism, it is just more information on the article. (2) For your second question I continue to edit Wikipedia because I try to improve articles. For example when I first started editing Heat Death of the Universe, the article was a mess. Nobody did anything about it. I asked many questions in discussion but nobody answered them so I read and researched on my own to constantly make the article better and better as I learned more. Becoming more interested I read the Five Ages of the Universe by Adams and Laughlin and with that I begin to edit the article but then people began calling several of my claims vandalsim. The first thing they call Vandalsim is Stellar formation ceasing in 100 trillion years even though is mentioned by official sources such as Adams, Laughlin, and Dyson. The next thing they called Vandalsim is 10^14 years for the deattachment of planets from white and black dwarfs and 10^15 years for the deattatctchment of white and black dwarfs from galaxies. They considered by black hole decay table to be vandalism too because it was “too much information” and when I added a new Stelliferous Era for the Poincare Reccurence Time of the Universe that was also called Vandalism although I had reliable sourcse backing it all up. I keep trying to explain myself and thrive for the article to be correct but over a period of time I actually do give up on an article and stop editing it like I have with many articles in the past that can probaly be found on my first account as Maldek. My old laptop automatically saved my password but it died, so I had to make a new account Maldek 2 when I bought my new laptop. After a while I stopped editing articles about Vedic Religon because I was tired off it being called Vandalsim even though my information is written from the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) I have also stopped editing articles that involve the future of the Universe too. I hope I have answered your questions, if you have any more please feel free to ask me and I would be more than happy to reply. Thank You for your cooperation. Your Friend Maldek.Maldek2 (talk) 20:02, 13 September 2008 (UTC)