Talk:Billie Joe Armstrong

Sources/clean up/vandalism

I cleaned up the article a lot tonight. Past vandalism was still in the article from 20 or so edits ago.

About the sources: His mother gave him Blue when he was 11 years old. He stated this in a video on the Idiot Club, however you have to pay to join the club and see the video. I don't know what to do about this, because people keep going through and changing "mother" to "father." His father died when he was 10, he received the guitar when he was 11.

I noticed there's a lot of statements that sources have been requested for, and I'm digging up what I can, but if you have anything, but you're unsure if it helps, go ahead and reply back here with whatever links you can and I'll fish through them and help figure out what's best.

I've noticed the big issues on the article are: People deleting the bisexual fact even though it's sourced, and people changing "mother" to "father" in Equipment in relation to Blue. So if you guys could help me check those regularly, that would be better than great.--Jude 14:42, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

The same two trivia facts and the "bisexuality" section of the article keep disappearing from the same IP, and then suddenly started disappearing from a new IP address:

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:139.168.132.197

2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:202.168.107.14

Just FYI to keep a look out.--Jude 12:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed from trivia section an allusion that he had a cat that died because of a line from "Deadbeat Holiday" that goes "Wake up, the house is on fire, and the cat's caught in the drier." Genius bit of deduction to the person that put that up but I think there needs to be more than just a song to make it valid. Besides, its a convenient phrase to keep with the rhyme scheme. Don't just post random deductions because it's supported by a song. Not everything written in lyrics can be taken at face value as true. Seriously, people, think before you edit. 216.125.11.206 03:19, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Zero really did die in the washing machine. The line was inspired by the death of the cat. It was one of those "based on a true story" sort of deals. Zero didn't die in the drier, but drier rhymes with fire. But you're right, the song doesn't count as a source.--JUDE ^talk 17:22, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually the cat did die in the dryer. I remember reading about it as far back as in 1995. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.8.6 (talk) 11:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Pure evil? WTF Titan50 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:09, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Driven

Does anyone know the name of the song that he plays at his talent show in driven?--69.113.131.124 20:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Joseph's b-day

Is his first son's birthday in febuary or in march? The article says it's in febuary,but i read somewhere it was march 15 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tamwyn alex (talk • contribs) 23:13, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

The source from the article says February, but I'd rather not get into a huge discussion about kids you/other fans don't even know.--Jude 11:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Still,i'd like to know.People here talk about all sorts of things.I'd rather not get into a discusion about his sexuality,but it's here,right.After all this is talk.I was just wondering— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.69.18 (talk) 01:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the huge difference is that his son is a child and Billie Joe is a grown man who chooses to have his sexuality known. If Joey's birthday is sourced twice as February, then it's most likely February. I'm sorry that I don't know how else to help you.--Jude 04:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes,but I've seen tons of places where it says he's born in March.I'm looking for someone who actually KNOWS when his birthday is.Since YOU don't,I'll wait for someone who DOES.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.69.18 (talk) 05:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

First of all, please Sign your posts. It gets tedious when people have to sign them for you. Second of all, I do, personally, know when his birthday is, however I'm telling you straight up that the article, with valid sources ( Mr. Armstrong himself ), says that it's in February, therefore, it is in February. I keep telling you over and over and you keep asking and it's taking up valuable space on the talk page. Please refer to the article for any other questions you may have, because the information is there.--Jude 07:25, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

So he directly tells the whole world that his son was born in febuary,and you saw it ?Alright just checking.Please,don't eat me.I'm new.-Tamwyn alex— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.69.18 (talk) 04:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

No, no one saw it but the person doing the Rolling Stone interview and the other guys in the band. He directly told Rolling Stone that his son's birthday was in february. I'm not trying to hold anything over anyone's head. I'm not going to eat anyone lol. I'm just trying to clarify that this was in an INTERVIEW. He said it to someone of notability who wrote it in an article. I didn't hear anything. 8-|. Just FYI, this is the source right on the front page of the article that has the quote straight out of his mouth: Rolling Stone Scan--Jude 09:22, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

What happened to the pictures in this article? James P Twomey 15:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

divorced

Who put that he divorced Adie and is a 17 year old?--69.113.131.124 20:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

"Armstrong rececently divorced wife Adrienne Nesser because she was reported to be having an affair with his best friend and band mate Mike Dirnt. He is now rumored to be dating a seventeen year old girl from Texas named Jewel"

even though i dun like Billie Joe but i guess the person who must have put that must b Jewel G..........if billie joe has divorced adriane then i want proof≈— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dm1989 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed it. It's bull.--Jude 00:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

thank u....n who ever who put that next time give proof..............— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.148.64.18 (talk) 10:26, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually,on a fan site,there was a MADE up story about him divorcing adrienne a dating some 17 year old.IT WAS A FAN STORY.someone probably mistook it for reals.

Another reason why you shouldn't believe everything you read. In fact I would only believe something if I heard it from Green Days official site.

Hah, whoever put that was an idiot —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deviant;woahvampire (talk • contribs) 07:03, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Nice pic

Whoever put the Billie joe pic,it's aewesome.Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.8.69.18 (talk) 04:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

Yes, muchly thank you for the pic. Much awesomeness. Missy C and The Moozik Choosers 06:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Panic Attacks?

Could someone just verify for me when this is shown in the Basket Case video? I've seen it, and I can't see anything that looks panic attack related.--JJ

I can't verify the original editor's point of view when they added the trivia, but I could try to elaborate on it. While I'm neutral about whether or not his panic attack symptoms are portrayed in the video, it is completely possible that they are there. He exhibits a frantic, panicked set of movements throughout the video, which can be associated with panic attacks. His symptoms are exclusive to his personality, therefore it's hard to say what he does when he has an attack. Those of us who experience panic attacks typically have some generalised symptoms and also completely individual symptoms. So you see, it's very hard to tell. If there was an interview where Billie Joe stated that the video portrayed this, it would help a lot, because that's the only method we would have to verify it. I'll see what I can find on it, because I do recall reading the "fact" in question, however it could have been a flub.--Jude 09:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The only source I could find that verified his panic disorder is this one:

VH1: What do you feel you were addressing in "Basket Case?"

Billie Joe: "Basket Case" was about anxiety attacks and feeling like you're ready to go crazy. At times I probably was. I've suffered from panic disorders my entire life. I thought I was just losing my mind. The only way I could know what the hell was going on was to write a song about it. It was only years later that I figured out I had a panic disorder.[1]

which doesn't state the video portrays his attacks. I'm going to re-write the fact to fit the facts.--Jude 09:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Smoking?

Does he still smoke?--69.113.131.124 22:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Yep!--JUDE ^talk 22:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Name

Are his first names really Bille Joe or are they, in fact, William Joseph and no one knows him under his real name, expecting family and friends? --86.103.207.38 16:20, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

His name is Billie Joe. Technically, I suppose in western cultures "Joe" would be considered his middle name, however in some southern (USA) cultures people go by their first and middle names (like my family, who call me by my first and middle names). He is the only member of Green Day to go by his birth-given full name.--JUDE ^talk 18:55, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Danke ;-) --86.103.207.38 19:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Keine Ursache :)--JUDE ^talk 20:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we need to verify. My sources indicate that he was not born in the USA, but in either Canada or Denmark?

The source which exists is where Billie discusses the origin of his name and where he was born.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 10:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm quite sure he was born in USA The cheese master 08:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

another photo

I notice the photos tend to get switched in and out a lot. Of course, that doesn't mean there can't be more than one. I've changed the photo again because the previous one was a far away shot of a screen, and this one is up close, as well as freely licensed. So there you go, do with it as you see fit. — coelacan — 11:36, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! I dig.--JUDE ^talk 12:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Cool with me. What is it about men with eyeliner that makes them look so good... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I believe this is still one of science's great unanswered questions. — coelacan — 20:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Can we possibly have sort of an album on the page? Something different...--Missy C and The Moozik Choosers 06:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately we can't. You can see the usage restrictions on album covers at template:albumcover, which limits the usage on wikipedia as "solely to illustrate the audio recording in question". So for example Image:GreenDayDookie.jpg can be used to illustrate the Dookie article, but nowhere else. This is a restriction of United States fair use law, outlined in Wikipedia policy at wikipedia:fair use. — coelacan — 19:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Huh, what happened to the photo?? --The cheese master 05:01, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Billie Joe is Billie Joe not William Joeseph..

Dude, what happened to the photo (again)??? Deandra56 14:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

party member

I don't think the Advocates for Self-Government are a reliable source regarding his party membership. Are there any reliable sources that don't have a vested interest in claiming him that can be used to source this? — coelacan — 12:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

How about the East Bay Express? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 12:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

That will do fine. — coelacan — 12:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice Guys Finish Last

John Roecker called him "the nicest guy you ever wanted to meet", isn't that ironic. --69.113.131.124 22:31, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a sarcastic song.--JUDE ^talk 00:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah the song's sarcastic. Its not ironic because everybody gets called the nicest person you ever wanted to met.--Kingforaday1620 15:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

religious veiws

does anyone know is religious veiws?

He's not so religious.He was when he was making look for love as a 5 year old,there was an interview and he said he learned about the bible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deviant;woahvampire (talk • contribs) 07:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Joeys Birthday.

IS IN FACT, March.

---

How do you know?

---

It's February 28, 1995. It says so in genology sites and california birth records. Plus, in an interiew Billie Joe even says that Joey's birthday is in February. http://www.greendayauthority.com/TheBand/articles/rollingstone011206.jpg --Chemicallyjinxyx (talk) 01:41, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Blue

I had actually heard that he received his guitar, Blue, from his Mother. IT was apparently his second guitar and his first guitar was given to him by his dad, but it was not Blue. 68.11.101.204 05:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

i am not bisexual...fuck all off you

somebody wrote that the subject of "coming clean" and "basket case" is that BJ is bi. basket case is about panic attacks,so i changed it.

Billie in not bi is just a rumor started by a magazine. He has stated that Adie is the only person for him. Billie Joe also strongly suggests that you don't believe everything thats printed in a magazine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.36.228.213 (talk) 17:02, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Well said. Well said indeed.

^ He not bi. You can't believe other people, but I would believe the words from his own lips. However, I think that including the quote after saying he's bisexual is a bit redundant...He said he's not bi, and here's what he said. Does it need to be included? We've got this article semi-locked, so we don't need to worry about the fangirls(u can have SEX with me) changing it. I just think it reads better as one sentence; I feel like the quote's been put there to prove that it's authentic (and to stop said fangirls from changing that fact), but it's unnecessary, really. 67.64.149.184 02:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)Amy

BJ is not bisexual, he has never openly and seriously admited to being bisexual. It's just a image stunt trick to make you think so. Dont believe everything you read. Billie joe is as heterosexual as his dad was.

Again, well said.

Ha! I fixed it! Billie Joe is NOT BI! I removed the part that said so.--Greenday21 (talk) 14:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)Greenday21

Billie Joe Armstrong declared his bisexuality very explicitly in a very "serious" context. Billie Joe would be ashamed that you homophobes even listen to Green Day.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 15:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

^Thank you!!! I'm Amy, the one who said that he said that he was bisexual- in an interview, in the Advocate. My post was altered (I was for the inclusion), which is childish. You do know that BJ dislikes homophobes, right? On GD's '94 tour, a queercore band opened for them, and when they got booed, Billie was very upset. Don't be so close-minded. Please. You come off sounding stupid (which I don't think you are). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sillycucumber (talk • contribs) 07:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

yes billie joe is bisexual..if he wasnt then why the hell would he have sex with the other band members? my cousin an i have been a fan of billie for a while now to know that he is bisexual...where ever you heardt that he is not..THEY WERE LYING.

all the members in green day are in fact bisexual.... thank you very much ~blair mikayla —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.80.170 (talk) 23:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

If Billie Joe is bi... then you should have absolutely no problem digging up another source.--Greenday21 (talk) 04:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)Greenday21

^Greenday21, here's the proof that he IS bisexual. Here is a segment of the biography of Green Day called Green Day: American Idiots and the New Punk Explosion By: Ben Myers (Page 114 and 115):

(Pansy Division's power lay in their groundbreaking ability to infiltrate the frustratingly hetero rock world, conver the masses to their poppy punk ways, then casually reveal themselves to be attracted to men - a move guaranteed to rankle down in the testosterone-driven mosh pit. The band's place on the tour also indirectly resulted in wider discussion about Green Day's frontman's own thoughts on sexuality.

"I think Green Day's popularity is one reason they invited us to open for them," said Pansy Division's lead singer Jon Ginoli. "Now that they're more mainstream, they have elements in their audience they'd rather not have and having us along lets them tweak that part of the audience. They're able to get under their skin and irritate them, saying, "If you're going to see us, you've gotta see this!"

Each night Pansy Division's performance to crowds unfamiliar with their material prompted certain audience members to give them the finger (oh, the irony...) and throw things at them.

"The funny thing was watching some of these guys in the audience when Pansy Division opened," remembered Billie Joe, who soon took to stopping Green Day's performance mid-set to berate the less-than-tolerant factions of his own fanbase and inform them that Pansy Division were the future of rock 'n' roll. "They were out there flexing their muscles and acting real macho, not really realizing that Pansy Division are gay. Then Chris Freeman, Pansy's bass player, would stop in the middle of the song and say, 'So, have you guys figured out we're a bunch of fags yet?' I think Pansy Division is the kind of band that changes people's lives. They're catchy, educational and they're honest about their sexuality." In a revealing interview with Judy Wieder of The Advocate, Billie Joe was admirably candid in discussing his own mixed sexual feelings and bisexual tendencies - a brave move for anyone, not least the most prominent figure in punk rock, a scene evidently still capable of horboring its own set of prejudices.

"I think I've always been bisexual," he explained "I mean, it's something I've always been interested in. I think everybody kind of fantasizes about the same sex. I think people are born bisexual, and it's just that our parents and society kind of veer us off into this feeling of 'Oh, I can't.' They say it's taboo. It's ingrained in our heads that it's bad when it's not bad at all. It's a very beautiful thing."

When asked whether he ever acted on these feelings, Billie Joe was equally candid. "I think mostly it's been kept in my head. I've never really had a relationship with a man, but it is something that comes up as a struggle in me ... especially when I was about sixteen of seventeen. In high school people think you have to be macho and people get attacked just because someone insinuates something about their sexuality. I think that's gruesome."

Aside from expressing admiration for outwardly gay performers such as Melissa Etherridge and the perenially lower-case kd land to obscure bands like the White Trash Debutantes, Billie Joe also revealed that having a gay uncle had helped him become far more aware of certain issues such as AIDS, a broad and divisive subject he felt would be extremely difficult for him to broach in his music.

"I don't feel educated enough, but I certainly could write about losing someone who's close to me. I'm more the type of person who would write about how ignorant and stupid people are about something like AIDS," he said in the Advocate.)

He IS bisexual and he HAS openly and seriously admitted to feeling this way. I've never heard him say that he WASN'T bisexual. Does anyone have any proof that he isn't? He IS bisexual, it's just that some of you just don't want to accept that he is, and I think that's sad that a so called fan feels that way. And the song "Coming Clean" is about him openly saying that he is bisexual. --Chemicallyjinxyx (talk) 23:07, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Billies Guitar(Mistake)

It is always mistaken by mannnyyyy. that billie first guitar was a blue fernandes strat.. its wrong , taht was his first ELECTRIC guitar.. billies first guitar was actually a CHERRY RED HOHNER(acoustic) which his dad bought him.. HIS BLUE- was bought by his mum from billies guitar teacher, it was a copy of hendrixs, and billie loved that distortion he couldnt get of his acoustic.. Rumour has it that his mom couldnt afford the guitar , so she did something else to purchase.

SOURCE- 1)NobodyLikesYou(contains interviews with fellow family and friend, so its reliable)

       2) Early pictures of BJ with his HOHNER.. 

i CANT CHANGE IT COZ ITS NEW.. SO SOMEONE PLEASE DO IT . THANKS :d

Time in the UK?

Did Billie Joe spend some time in the UK when young? Just wondering why he sings with a British accent. Or is it fake?Ndriley97 18:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Does he sing with a British accent? Doesn't sound that way to me, though I appreciate that the perception of accent is a personal thing. --OpenToppedBus - Talk to the driver 09:23, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

In Dookie on a lot of song he does sing in a british accent, it can especially be heard on Longview. He used to say "i sound like an englishman impersonating an american impersonating a british". He sings that way because he thought that was punk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.225.8.6 (talk) 11:36, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Total agreed. He sings "Boit moi lips and close moi ois" just like a Brit would. I like a lot of their music, but I have had a serious problem with the fake mockney accent since Dookie came out. I also think that is why a lot of the old school Brit punk scene (e.g. John Lydon) consider him a poser who is not really a punk rocker. However, I leave people to draw their own conclusions.Ndriley97 21:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

BILLIE JOE DONT CHANGE

BILLIE JOE HAS SAID E WANTS TO BE TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY AS A SONGWRITER..SOO I CHANGED HIS FIRST OCCUPATION TO SONGWRITER RATHER THAN MUSICIAN.. SO DONT CHANGE IT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guitarhead13 (talk • contribs) 11:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

one of the most influential?

"Armstrong is one of the most popular and influential guitarists in rock music today and is widely credited with the revival of punk in the early 1990s."

I understand him being one of the most popular, but inflential and WIDELY credited with the revival?? Where is the source on any of these things? i believe this is only an opinion and not a fact. even on rolling stone's "The 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time" he is not listed. so where is the proof, or source of his most influential, or widely credited things?? this is only an opinion, therefore please remove such nonsence.

66.215.93.151 07:43, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Erm.. .. Green day revived the whole punk scene alongside with offspring.. they were the only mainstream punk band in the 90s. and no it is i a fact... rolling stones rates guitarists according to their talent.. and he is said to be influential because he gets children to pick up guitars and start learning them.. not many guitarists can do them.

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.9.86 (talk) 18:21, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 

how do you know he is influential? you have to put sorces and credit these things, you cant just say he's one of the most influential just because you like him.

+

it says he's WIDLY credited. do you have even 1, or 2 people saying that? how is it widley? if so show sources and proof

I took that crap off, it was POV original research.James P Twomey 16:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Harmonica

There's no harmonica in King for a day. He plays it in Walking alone. And what song on American Idiot does he play the harmonica?--Kingforaday1620 22:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

On stage, he plays harmonica in the bridge for King For A Day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.116.222 (talk) 04:34, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Obvious...

Just removed the most obvious vandalism possible that said Billie was evil. It was in the infobox, how can someone vandalize that? Guess it was by a random registered user, but that isn't right all the same. Fishdert (talk) 01:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Accodian, Bass and Violin?

Theres a rumor spreading that Billie can play Guitar, Piano, Drums, Harmonica, Mandolin, Saxophone AND Accordian, Bass and Violin! Is the second half true?

He was cool he is call. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.23.0.5 (talk) 21:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The second half is not true. 71.167.116.222 (talk) 04:36, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Link to subway

Hello. A passage in this article refers to Armstrong's father working as a "truck driver for subway." I'm not sure which meaning of "subway" is intended here. Can someone help? Thanks. --Tkynerd (talk) 19:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

It's supposed to be a truck driver for Segway.71.167.116.222 (talk) 04:37, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

^His father Andy WAS NOT a truck driver for Subway, but rather for Safeway, the food company, and he probably delivered Safeway Brand food products to the locations where they are sold (Vons, Stater Bros., Ralph's (although back then it might've been Hugh's, although it may have been something else, too.) Moat likely, he delivered to nearby states such as California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, and possibly Oregon or Washington State. Source: My father is also a truck driver. But don't get excited; I am not Mr. Billie Joe Armstrong, nor do I have any relations with anyone associated with him, and my father doesn't drive for Safeway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.253.9 (talk) 23:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Former guitarist of Pinhead Gunpowder?

Pinhead Gunpowder is going to play two shows, is it a fact he is no longer in the band? He's still listed at Pinhead Gunpowder as a guitarist and vocalist. For the time being I'll remove the former thing because, as far as I know, he's still in it. Di4gram (talk) 05:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Rodeo or Oakland

The info box has one place of birth, the lead another.... which is correct? --DFRussia (talk) 08:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Now it's even worse: click on 'Oakland' and it redirects you to 'Rodeo'! --138.246.7.104 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 11:46, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.216.151.213 (talk) 21:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC) 

Edit

Okay, why cant we edit this page? BJ is not bisexual, he never was, and i want to get rid of that--71.183.217.40 (talk) 16:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)greenday21

Because there's a reliable source where he declares openly that he is? Just because you don't like something, doesn't give you the power to change a fact.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 15:29, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Also know as...

i put Fink (The Network) and The Reverend Strychnine Twitch (Foxboro Hot Tubs) in his alias —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.180.153.227 (talk) 05:51, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Stop Drop and Roll -- Lead Vocals, Guitar

I don't know if he plays guitar in the studio but live he only sings.--Kingforaday1620 (talk) 22:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Bisexuality

I may ask that the page be blocked from editing by unregistered users as his avowed bisexuality (spoken from his OWN mouth) keeps getting deleted. His statement is a direct quote from him, that he is indeed bisexual. You may dislike the fact that he is, but it is referenced from an extremely reliable source & a direct quote from Armstrong's own mouth stating he is bisexual. Grow up. He says he is, then he is. Stop removing cited material because you dislike facts. ExRat (talk) 18:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, his quote does not speak in definitive terms. Particularly as he states that bisexuality is the natural default for humanity. It would be more accurate to state that Billie Joe has expressed some bisexual leanings. This is not the same thing as a confession of a practiced lifestyle and the current wording is potentially misleading.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 19:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

You're making a loose interpretation (Original Research). The quote has him plainly declare that he has always been bisexual, even if he's never acted upon it.~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 20:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

This is not an issue of original research. Original research would be ignoring the relevant explanation that he, himself, provides in favor of personal interpretation. Billie Joe clearly states "I think I've always been bisexual. I mean, it's something that I've always been interested in."

"I mean" is a conditional phrase that modifies the first section of his sentence. He continues to modify his original sentence by stating that people are "born bisexual". Meaning that it is the default state, in his opinion. In other words he believes everyone is bisexual, himself included. This is not the same as a declaration that he has always been bisexual. His first sentence does not exist in a vacuum. Therefore the entry should reflect this more accurately than it currently does.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 20:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"I think I've always been bisexual. I mean, it's something that I've always been interested in" ~ Billie Joe Armstrong.

That sounds pretty damn definitive to me. He said he is. Stated it quite clearly. Your interpretation seems rather original resarch. ExRat (talk) 22:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Last I checked, expressing an interest in something is not synonymous with doing or being something. Yes, He said he is. And then he clearly qualified his original statement. All his words should be considered and the entry should reflect his full statement, not just a part. Furthermore, this is not original research. These are his own words. He very clearly stated that he believes that bisexuality is the natural default state for everyone, himself included.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 22:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"I think I've always been bisexual." Firstly, it is Original Resarch on your part. Regardless if he believes all people are inherently bisexual, he stated unequivocally that he is bisexual. So, he believes that all people are inherently bisexual.....and? Does that somehow make him "less bisexual"? And you are somehow able you gauge to what "degree" of bisexual he is? He clearly said he is bisexual, therefore, he believes himself to be bisexual. And as for your statement "This is not the same as a declaration that he has always been bisexual", that is a contradiction - "I mean, it's something that I've always been interested in". Also, if he were not bisexual, and didn't believe himself to be bisexual, why would he then make a statement that bisexuality is a natural default state? I hardly think one who isn't bisexual and solely heterosexual would come to the conclusion that they are bisexual in their natural default state. ExRat (talk) 22:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Nope. Not original research to take into consideration the entirety of his statement. Not at all. His first sentence does not exist in a vacuum and you can't say otherwise with any degree of accuracy. You claim his statement was unequivocal, but it cannot be so if he provided conditions. That's how the word works.

Now, If he believes that all people are inherently bisexual, then what is the difference between him and the other band members, beyond an expressed interest? He has been "interested" in bisexuality, that is what he "meant" when he said "I think I've always been bisexual.". That was HIS specific clarification to his original sentence, and that clarification should be reflected in the article. Can I somehow parse his "degree" of bisexuality from his ambiguous statements? No. And neither can you. That's why the article should specify that he has expressed bisexual leanings or "an interest in bisexuality", rather than claim a definitive answer to his sexual predilections. As for the your OPINION that one would not believe bisexuality is a natural default state if they are heterosexual by practice or inclination, that IS original research. And not, in MY opinion, particularly accurate.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 23:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"I mean, it's something that I've always been interested in" How do you know what he meant? He clearly states he is bisexual. He was asked pointedly about his sexuality. You are the one parsing his words. He states "I think I've always been bisexual". That is hardly an "ambiguous statement". "I think I have always been gay/I think I have always been straight" - Someone utters these words and it is somehow "ambiguous"? There is no ambiguity there. You can argue semantics all you like, the fact is, he clearly stated and believes himself to be bisexual. It's absolute ridiculousness to argue over something that is a direct quote from his very own mouth. The fact that you wish the article to reflect that he has "bisexual leanings" is just silly. He didn't say he had "leanings". He clearly states he believes himself to have always been bisexual. And it is a "definitie answer to his sexual predilections" when asked by a magazine about his sexuality and he then states "I think I've always been bisexual." I think I'll choose to believe Billie Joe Armstrong, rather than your interpreation of his extremely forthright statement. Regardless, he said he is bisexual. He obviously believes himself to be bisexual. ExRat (talk) 23:24, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

How do I know what he meant? Because he clearly clarified his original sentence: "I mean, it's something that I've always been interested in.". And you're right, it is ridiculous to argue over something that is a direct quote from his very own mouth. So why are you doing it? His words. His clarification to what he "meant". Furthermore, he believes everyone to be bisexual as a default. So unless he is practicing bisexuality (and we know he's practicing heterosexuality), his "interests" are not really any thing other than (by his own viewpoint) the natural default of all people. The article should reflect the entirety of his viewpoint, rather than pigeonhole him into one slot while ignoring his obvious qualifiers.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 23:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

That isn't a clarifying statement to mean that he isn't bisexual. Somehow him saying that it is something he has always been interested in is tantamount to negating the first sentence where he states that believes he has always been bisexual? Hogwash. I have absolutely no idea how you arrive at the conclusion that him stating "I mean, it's something I've always been interested in" somehow negates the first sentence. If anything, it further supports it. Lastly, one doesn't have to be a "practising" anything to still believe themselves to be one. As I've stated - HE SAID HE WAS BISEXUAL. Therefore, he believes himself to be. Therefore, he IS. Stated it openly. Clearly. He didn't say "I think I've always been heterosexual", did he? And if he believes that bisexuality is the default sexuality of all people (didn't see where that quote came from anyway), then he clearly believes himself to be, correct? Anyway, this is my last post (for now anyway) on the subject.

Oh, and just for the hell of it - further discussion from Billie Joe Armstrong's interview with The Advocate:

"When asked whether this beautiful thing is something he’s ever actually acted on, the recently married (and about to become a father) Armstrong smiles. “I think mostly it’s been kept in my head,” he says. “I’ve never really had a relationship with another man. But it is something that comes up as a struggle in me." ExRat (talk) 00:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Did I ever claim it was a "clarifying statement to mean that he isn't bisexual"? No. Did I say the second sentence "negates" the first? No. It clarifies the first. Get your head out of the binary "he's bi he isn't bi" argument. And by the way, your "just for the hell of it" argument further supports what I've been saying. He is interested in the bisexual lifestyle. He clearly has not committed himself to it. He provided multiple qualifiers to his statement that he was bisexual, and the article, to be as factual as possible, should represent the entirety of his statement. Not just the first sentence.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 02:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

"He is bi he isn't bi" IS the argument. You can blather on about semantics all you like ad nauseum and your interpretations of what he supposedly "really meant". He specifically stated he is bisexual. It doesn't matter whether or not he has or hasn't committed himself to physically ever practicing bisexuality. He clearly stated he considers himself bisexual, not just merely "interested" in bisexuality as a notion or a condition. End of story. Qualifiers? Qualifiers as you read into them. By your logic, someone saying "I think I've always been gay. I've always been interested in it. It's been a struggle within me" is somehow still an ambiguous statement that needs reinterpreted (Original Research). Seems patently clear to me what he said. I have absolutely no qualms about additional information added to the segment, but not information as how it is interpreted by you, or anyone else about what he supposedly "really meant to say". He said what he said - and that is that he believes himself to be bisexual. Your reinterpretion of what he allegedly "meant to say" is simply POV and a guess. I see no ambiguity whatsoever in what he said and he seems to have been rather blunt about it and stated it quite clearly. ExRat (talk) 03:17, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I think it's funny that in your attempt to dismiss the qualifier, you drop the qualifying aspect (the phrase "I mean"), thus negating your analogy altogether. I also think it's funny that you're now trying to tell me what my argument is. This is not a matter of semantics or personal interpretations or Original Research. It's a matter of how the English language works. It's a matter of reflecting accurately what he said. He made a statement that, on it's own, certainly was quite clear. But he then chose to qualify that statement by explaining further what he "meant". As you evidenced, he then went on to explain that this is not something he has ever practiced, but instead "kept in his head". Call it a leaning, an interest, a curiosity, a fantasy...whatever. The article should apply some distinguishing terminology to indicate a separation between an untried "interest" in bisexuality and a practicing bisexual. If for no other reason (and no other reason is needed) than the subject in question chose to add that distinction himself. The notion that he considers himself unequivocally bisexual, rather than "interested" in bisexuality is your POV. He made the distinction quite clear in his own words. Furthermore, it's you who is adding judgment words like "merely" and "just". As if there is some level of quality to his preference. I don't think there is anything "mere" about having a directly expressed interest versus a self applied label based on a directly expressed interest. Neither is "better" than the other.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 04:56, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

"Call it a leaning, an interest, a curiosity, a fantasy...whatever." Ummm....no. I think I'll call it what he himself was quoted calling it - "I think I've always been bisexual." ExRat (talk) 05:12, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh. You mean "an interest." Because that is the specific qualifier he added. It's not up to determine that his specific wording should be ignored in the article.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 05:34, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't ignored. The full quote is right there. Right after his overt claim of bisexuality. ExRat (talk) 06:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

And the part of the article that is not a quote should accurately reflect his full, qualified, statement.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 06:50, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

And now, once again, it does. "He is interested in the bisexual lifestyle. He clearly has not committed himself to it." He IDENTIFIES himself as a bisexual. Whether or not he is "committed" to practicing it is not the point. He used the label of bisexual to describe himself. He said nothing that disqualifies his assertion that he is bisexual. He then elaborates further on his clearly stated bisexuality by saying that it is something he has always been interested in. And that somehow makes him not bisexual, or simply "interested in bisexuality" and negating the very first sentence because he followed up with the words "I mean it's something I've always been interested in"? Brilliant logic there. Anyway, this is tiring and going in circles. The man stated he is bisexual. Obviously he has accepted it. Maybe you should as well. ExRat

Again you introduce judgment words. "Simply" interested in bisexuality? You're beginning to exposes something of your own prejudice. There is nothing "mere" or "simple" about an interest in bisexuality in comparison to a self applied label of bisexuality. Particularly when the self applied label does not correspond with any activity. Anyway, so he "identifies' himself as bisexual. But he then goes on at length about how this is something he does not practice. If I "identify" myself as Republican but vote Democrat, my self applied label is barely relevant. If I call myself a Christian but practice Hinduism, my self applied label of Christian holds little relevance. And again, I never said his first sentence was "negated". I said it was qualified. He used a clear qualifier ("I mean") to bridge the two sentences. Therefore the content of the first sentence is altered by the content of the second. I know... I know... It's complicated and you want to make this an issue of "acceptance" rather than deal with the realities of language. But your insinuations of "acceptance" and your value judgments on sexual preference hold no relevance. I'm changing the article once more.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 18:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

That is the longest string of POV I have seen in quite a while. By the way, you just broke the 3RR Cheers. ExRat (talk) 19:13, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect on both counts. Please take the time to comprehend what you are speaking of.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 19:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

You're correct. I apologize. You haven't broken 3RR. Since the two of us obvioulsy are in disagreement, I have asked for neutral Wikipedia:Third opinion in the Active disagreements section. If that fails, then maybe we could consider deleting the "intro" section to his quote altogether. ExRat (talk) 20:57, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

That's more than fair. I've reverted the article to your version pending 3rd party neutral viewing.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 21:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Since you asked for a third opinion at WP:3O. I looked over your discussion here, and, without looking at the source, would you agree on just saying on the article: "(he) has stated that he has always been interested in bisexuality" followed by an inline reference to the source? Would that be an adequate compromise for both of you?

I once read on wikipedia that a version is neutral when none of the parties involved is totally happy with the result, maybe this version would be the case. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. I suppose I got caught up in a slightly petty edit war over semantics and interpretations. After giving it more thought, I am more than willing to revert to Theplanetsaturn's revision. His revision did leave the quote in entirety - Armstrong opening with the statement "I think I have always been bisexual". Still not 100% in agreement with the interpretation, but I'm willing to go with "he has expressed an interest in bisexuality" followed by the sourced quote. Have reverted to previous version. All done here? :)ExRat (talk) 22:02, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Happy to have helped you :) I suppose that Theplanet won't have any problem with reverting to his version. You can probably remove the 3O petition. --Enric Naval (talk) 22:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks again. Removed the 3O request. ExRat (talk) 22:43, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that is a fair compromise by any means. The original source is explicit, and the wording this way supposes that Wikipedia does not acknowledge Billie's own admission of bisexuality but would rather suggest a mere "interest" in the topic. The statement needs to be unambiguous and frank, no personal interpretation of Billie's "real meaning" is substantial or reliable enough to command this sort of "compromise".~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 20:48, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

An alternative would be to use wording of ExRat's that I particularly liked: "Billie Joe identifies himself as bisexual". Regardless, as I have stated several times, this is not personal interpretation. Billie Joe used the qualifier ("I mean") explaining his initial statement. He chose to qualify the statement himself and that should be reflected properly. Also, please don't use words like "mere". There is nothing better or worse, greater or lesser, in an stated interest in bisexuality versus a self applied label. Particularly when compounded with the qualifier that he does not practice said lifestyle.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 21:08, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

"Identifies as" would be preferable. Again, whether he "practices" is irrelevant - are heterosexual virgins not heterosexual? I also dislike the use of the word lifestyle there...~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 22:47, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Then I think we should go with "identifies as" if all agree that it is a more acceptable compromise. As for the rest, "practices" (or a lack of) in this instant is not being used to support or deny his interests or any aspect of what is or is not included in the article. It's only being used to illustrate that, in my mind, there is nothing lesser or greater or "mere" in one that states an interest in bisexuality versus one who "is bisexual". As for lifestyle, again, not intended for inclusion and there is nothing inherently offensive with the word on it's own that I'm aware of. Certainly not meant to offend. I'd call heterosexuality a lifestyle as well.Theplanetsaturn (talk) 23:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Marriage problems

Why is there no mention of him and Adie having marriage problems during the Warning:/American Idiot era? And during what era did he have weight problems?--Kingforaday1620 (talk) 21:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Italian wiki

I was reading the [Italian Wikipedia] and it said that "He was often expelled because he had several disputes with teachers..... the last day of school the school did not presented to withdraw the diploma." And I was wondering if any of that was true.--Nimrod22 (talk) 00:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Haunted

On google video, look up Billie joe armstrong, haunted. (I'd give you the URL, but I dont have an address bar on this CPU, dont ask) You see a video of Billie on a show called haunted. look it up.--Greenday21 (talk) 03:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)Greenday21

Registered Libertarian?

Just thought I'd point this out.

Why does it say Billie Joe is a Libertarian? As far as I can see there is no proof of this. Where is the source of this information? He's never said he's a Libertarian or even expressed an interest in it - he's done absolutely nothing whatsoever to indicate that he is one. However, many of his expressed views and actions would indicate that he isn't one.

I'm not sure how this place works, but he isn't a Libertarian, so I think this false and misleading information should be removed from the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sleazing (talk • contribs) 18:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Adelleda

Does anyone know anything about Billie Joe and Fat Mike producing a band called Adelleda. I noticed it on here, did some research and found nothing. I would really like to know if anyone has any more info about this. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eoztnegras (talk • contribs) 07:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)