Talk:Williamsburg, Brooklyn

Removed section on zoning

First of all, this rant against the zoning resolution is filled with outright lies and distortions of truth. A main issue is this zoning act was passed into law by a democratic process - are we to discuss every zoning change for every neighborhood in every city in the country? This was not a paritcularly controversial zoning act within the city at large and received widespread support. It is a done deal and dozens of buildings have already been constructed. A couple of facts

1) The rezoning, by national standards, is relatively low density. The average Wikipedia reader probably doesn't think zoning that allows for 10-story buildings to be particularly unusual, especially given this is New York City we are talking about.

2) The inclusionary housing program has very specific income guidelines which are, for New York City, NOT upper middle class. Further, many programs are available which allow for even greater subsidies for programs which include low-income housing units. Read up on it all here http://www.nychdc.com

3) Higher density development is not of "dubious" economic benefit. There is a tremendous housing shortage in New York City, and prices will not come down until new housing is built. This is simple supply and demand economics. No one questions this, except for the rich who own properties and want to keep newcomers out of their neighborhoods.

4) There has actually been so much new development prices are already falling - by as much as 10% over the summer of 2007. This is a big deal and proof that prices only go down when there is excess capacity

If someone wishes to rewrite the section to include a discussion of how the zoning changed, please include actual facts like the maximum FAR. These districts are moderate density by national standards, and the actual facts, with links to the zoning code, rather than hyperbole, need to be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.127.98.2 (talk) 20:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

They Might Be Giants

Are TMBG from Williamsburg? Because their first video was shot there, and that's where their mailing address is. - User:BNLfan53 BNLfan53 04:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC) 04:33, April 29, UTC

rewrite? citations?

Why does this article have a tag for a "complete rewrite"? The article is very thorough and accurate. The complaints of a small handful people commenting here should not mean that the work of many gets scrapped. Please remove the "rewrite" tag, it's not called for.

Also, the music section has morre citations and sources than the rest of the article, why is it consistently tagged as "citation needed"?

I agree. The editor who tagged it contributed the vague haiku at the bottom of this talk page by way of explanation and hasn't been heard from since. I'm pulling the tag. Sylvain1972 02:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This article is horrible. THere is ONCE SENTENCE for the entire period of 1970 to the present time, with endless paragraphs about the 2005 rezoning act which was duly enacted by elected officials and is widely supported by the public at large. This article is written by some hipster with axe to grind about issues that are important to HIM, not that are relevant to most people wanting to read about the neighborhood. This is not a blog, it is a an encycolpedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.127.98.2 (talk) 20:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I tend to agree. This article is heavily biased towards the culture inhabiting Williamsburg within the last decade. And isn't all the space spent on environmental issues perhaps a bit of undue weight? Does Williamsburg really have more toxicity/environmental issues than other similarly located areas within other large American cities?68.46.183.96 (talk) 22:11, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Environmental Hazards

Rather than irrationally focus on the remote risk of a terrorist strike on Williamsburg (ganja getting you paranoid?), why not pay attention to legitimate environmental risks, which have 100% certainty of affecting residents? In the section about environmental hazards, there should be something about the various health problems associated with the unclean drinking water and polluted air in the neighborhood (from decades of industrial pollution, much of it in very close Greenpoint), including sky high asthma rates. The 20something hipsters never stay long enough to become aware of the widely publicized long-term health risks, even though they might suffer from them.

I don't have time to write it at the moment, but someone should. Aroundthewayboy 16:50, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

• Bueller? Bueller? Aroundthewayboy 19:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

This entry re. Environmental Hazards - Sounds more like an opinion that based on facts and research... Elhombre72 21:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Aroundthewayboy...if you feel so strongly it should be written, you should write it. Didn't have time on May 8, fine, but three months have passed. I'm especially interested in seeing your citations for unclean drinking water. Decafdyke 01:06, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

While inflammatory, Aroundthewayboy is right. Between Exxon's largest American oil spill in Greenpoint (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a87yhnWc.q1U&refer=us) and the fact that Greenpoint and Williamsburg are home to over 15 waste processing and transferring facilities, processing about a third of all of New York City's garbage (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40A1FF73A5C0C718DDDAD0894DC404482), the health problems due to these issues are certainly affecting the residents on a daily basis. Anirishprophet 12:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

General

Shouldn't there be some sort of public warning about the killer school buses that roam the streets trying to run people down?

Wow. This article is so full of inacurracies I don't know where to begin.

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to…) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome.

I removed the paragraph about the guy who produced the surrealist show because this could only have been put in there by him. I am an artist who has been in the area since 1992, and this little show had little to no impact on anyone or anything that I know of. the principle galleries in the area are: Momenta, Pirogi, Roebling hall.

i will come back here in a few days and prop up the art content. the bits about the bands and the roving parties are correct. other mentions should go to: L cafe read cafe Jeff Stark Hungry March Band Girdle Factory the G train activsm in the area etc

Vandalism Ahead

This is obviously one of the "old" crowd, foregotten in the mix of more important personages and venues, who thinks that Pierogi, Roebling Hall, etc., and his or her friends are still, if they ever were, important people in Williamsburg or the art world. This person has proceeded to vandalize the article and, by all indications, will be coming back to add his (her) friends and probably himself (herself) to the article and delete people he or she does not approve. We will wait and see.

Message for Terrance and WAH center folk. please do not use this space to promote your facility. i removed the material here that was mostly PR for WAH center. WAH center is a pretty cool place, but it is in NO WAY central or integral to williamsburg. it is one among *many* *many* diverse institutions, people, micro-communities, movements and other factors that helped to develop the area as an artist district.

why don't you start a page specifically for WAH center where more detailed information and links for your organization would be more fitting? it looked liked you just cut/pasted your mission statement here...blah*

in fact, i'm pretty sure that it is not advised for people to write about themselves at all on wikipedia.

Southside & Northside of Williamsburg

northside and southside are part of williamsburg. so if you live in either one, you live in williamsburg.

It never ceases to amaze me how quick "hipsters from around the nation" are to trash on other hipsters from around the nation who arrived five minutes later. Yes, the terms Southside and Northside are used by locals, but they refer to the south side and north side of what? Of Williamsburg, of course. Maybe the Town of Williamsburgh didn't include those areas in the 1650s, but by the 19h century and beyond the term certainly did. I guess somewhat forgot to tell the hipsters who put on the Giglio Feast of Our Lady of Mt Carmel every year that they don't live in Williamsburg, because based on their website they seem to think they do: http://www.giglio-usa.org/Brooklyn_Mt_Carmel.htm. Here's an article from an 1883 edition of the Brooklyn Eagle that places Northside and Southside in "Williamsburg": http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/Repository/getFiles.asp?Style=OliveXLib:ArticleToMailGifMSIE&Type=text/html&Path=BEG/1883/12/16&ID=Ar00904&Locale=&ChunkNum=0 You can blame hipsters for many things, but calling Williamsburg "Williamsburg" is kosher ~GZ 10/2/05

THEY ARE REFERRING TO THE NORTH SIDE AND SOUTH SIDE OF METROPOLITAN AVENUE...IT IS THE DIVIDING LINE...IF YOU GO UP METRO PAST THE EXPRESSWAY INTO THE AREA NEAR ANNUNCIATION CHURCH, TO YOUR RIGHT IS THE NORTH SIDE AND TO YOUR LEFT IS THE SOUTH SIDE...ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT...

I KNOW BECAUSE I'VE LIVED ON BOTH SIDES...AND NOW RESIDE IN STATEN ISLAND AND COME BACK EVERY YEAR FOR THE OLMC FEAST (HUBBY AND KIDS LIFT!) AND I MISS THE OLD NEIGHBORHOOD TERRIBLY!!!

Yes, this was addressed to an earlier editor who said the Northside was not part of Williamsburg. Sylvain1972 20:12, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

About "Williamsburg"

maccarren park is in greenpoint. well, its kind of in between williamsburg and greenpoint but its mostly greenpoint.

I see some discussion about what to name it. My mother and father grew up there (my mother's father headed the St. Paulinus feast back in the 1930s) and they all called it "Williamsburg." When asked further, they would have said they lived on "the Northside" (my mom lived on Havemeyer and N 7th, my dad moved around, but usually lived on Graham Ave north of Metropolitian). Grand Street is the dividing line between the North and South Streets and traditionally marked the dividing line between the Italians (Northside) and the Jews and later Puerto Ricans ("Southside"). When I lived near MacCarren Park in the early 2000s, I said I lived in Williamsburg. --Amcalabrese 22:31, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Now, I don't have anything against LGBWilliamsburgBridge.jpg as a picture in and of itself. However, I do not feel that it is appropriate in this context. Yes, it was taken from the Williamsburg waterfront—but it doesn't say anything about Williamsburg itself! This image might be well-suited for the article about Manhattan or Downtown, or perhaps later in this article in other context, but not as the top-level image.

McCarren Park is in Greenpoint...the zip there is 11222...which is Greenpoint...Williamsburgh's zip is 11211...

Metropolitan Avenue is the dividing line betweeen North and South Brooklyn...if you are on Metro going towards Annunciation church (i.e. Roebling streets, etc.) the "Northside" is on your right and the "Southside" is to your left...

Rents

This article states average rents, but then doesn't explain whether they're per month, per week, per quarter etc. Can anyone provide some clarification?

those are all daily rates.--Ultranaut 05:47, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

How about info on the multii million dollar condos all over the place?

And the many new hasidic constuctions!

Yes, the impact of construction has had a positive impact on Brooklyn's economy and proves the "trickle down" theory works

Although I will be the first to admit that this is not the proper forum for an economic or political debate, What's your logic behind THAT one? This is not the place to make an out-of-context argument about the "trickle down" theory. I will simply say that I refute your use of the "trickle down" term in this case, it is a grossly innapropriate term for describing the development of the economic conditions that you are referencing. --Fossiltooth

Bands From Williamsburg

This article states that:

"Williamsburg and its scene has produced alternative and avant rock bands such as They Might Be Giants, the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, TV on the Radio (who featured an image of the Williamsburg Bridge approach on the inside of their debut EP, "Young Liars"), White Magic, Japanther, Oneida, Liars, Awesome Color, Parts and Labor, Diamond Nights, Sightings, Langhorne Slim, Vic Thrill, Wooden Wand and the Vanishing Voice, Ghost Exits, Matt & Kim, Will Hawkins, The Rapture, Pixeltan, Enon, Young People, Ex Models, Rogers Sisters, Double Leopards, Aa (aka Big A little a), Gang Gang Dance, SnapPusher, Les Savy Fav, BARR, Black Dice, Out Hud, !!! (aka "Chk Chk Chk"), and Animal Collective."

Now, as far as I know, They Might Be Giants are most definitely from Park Slope, not Williamsburg. As to the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, I was almost certain they variously from NYU, Oberlin, etc. I'm not sure about the rest of the bands, but considering that those two don't seem right to me, I'm inclined to believe that the rest of the bands that are listed - who are in fact of much interest to hipsters in Williamsburg - are not neccesarily based in Williamsburg.

Let's try to either reference these or remove them. --Pac 05:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Someone needs to make the music section it's own stub. It also needs to be seriously edited and researched (considering a majority of those bands are Manhattan based). edit: The page at least should have a disclaimer, but I don't know how that works. Anyone? Emilysix 22:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

They Might Be Giants are most definitely long-time Williamsburg residents. View Gigantic, the recent documentary on the band.

This list of bands in not encyclopedic; a few bands typical of Williamsburg is all that's appropriate. A good solution might be to list none at all and just link to the stub, as Emilysix recommended. Um... I'm not sure how to do it either. --Eeblet 17:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Pictures of Williamsburg

When I was in Brooklyn this summer I also took a few pictures of Williamsburg, I wanted to post these on the page, but I posted pictures before and I am required to have the copyright, but I took these pictures myself (how can I license them to say they are under my name before posting?)

Thank you --Bahador

East Williamsburg review

I'm asking people who are familiar with Williamsburg to come look at East Williamsburg, Brooklyn and review it. I created the article some time ago, primarily to distinguish that the area is concurrently associated with Bushwick, as well as Williamsburg. (It has since been edited primarily by another user.) Previously the article redirected to Bushwick. Those who are familiar with the Eastern District of Brooklyn will also know greatly about this area. Thanks. Tinlinkin 10:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

east williamsburg is the part near the grand street campus high schools.

Williamsburg, Brooklyn

The lead section is confusing and too short.
There should be a picture next to the lead section.
The History section needs to be restructured.
The Evnironmental Hazards section is biased and opinion based.
The Music Scene section is jumbled, and has too many long lists within paragraphs(band names, venues).
I think the Rent section should be cited, and probably updated.
The Rezoning section is biased/one-sided.
Grassroots Development section?
Emilysix 00:56, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the rezoning section is rather balanced. Proponents say this, opponents say that. Can you be more specific? Sylvain1972 13:30, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

aefwtsdfhjtfwyu65

I can imagine a lot of families on the Northside of Williamsburg (the Italians, particularly) own their own homes, and I see that a lot of them are living lives of ridiculous prosperity. As in, they're making a killing off renting the above floors of their homes at the current Williamsburg market rate, and then they can sell their lots to delevopers for more money.

So, why only the mention of people being "pushed out", but not the prosperity of the home owners currently there? It's typical bourgeouis bohemian attitudes that focus on the "old neighborhood dying, maaan" by the "totally phoney hipsters" and not see that the old neighborhood includes actual home owners, since so many of the buildings in WBURG are suburban houses. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 140.212.213.41 (talk) 17:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

yes alot of homes are owned but alot of homes arent owned and the rent to people. and yes some of the people they rent to are the so called hipsters but some of them they rent to are to people that have been living here for a while. like myself. my rent is going up. and i cant afford for it to get any higher based on what i make for a living. alot of the people in this neighborhood do not make as much as the hipsters do because they probably never got a chance to go to college or to move up the social ladder. so before you say that some people are just profiting over this, there's always been people profiting. but the ones that think the rent in williamsburg is affordable compared to their salaries are being pushed out.

don't forget rising property value will also push out homeowners who don't can't afford to pay the taxes that go along with that. --Vsthesquares 17:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

External Links

I don't consider wiliamsboard.com a spam link under the policy on external links. On the contrary, it provides "meaningful, relevant content" for those interested in the neighborhood.Oldmark 20:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe not a spam link, but forums are considered links to be avoided, so unless there's an incredibly compelling reason, it shouldn't be there. Mosmof 08:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Asterisk? Bushwick or Williamsburg? Also more on Music...

I'm absolutely positive that Asterisk Art Project is in Bushwick on Johnson. Is that part of Williamsburg now?

Also, the music has been brought up a lot, and I certainly think it needs to be addressed. First of all, the grammar, syntax, and simple incorrect usage of words is astounding. It's amateurish, and that mindset filters right through to the list of bands. It seems more like a list of bands from BROOKLYN in general. I understand that a lot of those bands are from nearby neighborhoods and got exposure there, but the entire list seems a little excessive. General Miggs, Heroine Sheiks, and Awesome Color? Do those bands really warrant mention? We Are Scientists were barely even a blip on the radar (Besides, their own page lists them as from California). Just a cursory glimpse at these bands pages in Wiki itself or in their own bios betrays most of the listings here, like Interpol(NYU, actually, as stated on their own page), !!!(Actually based in 3 different cities), Yeah Yeah Yeahs(Williamsburg? Really? NYU again), The Rapture (Formed and the relocated to NYC, though, I can't imagine who would want to claim them). Shortening the list, and *checking* it would give the section more impact as actual Williamsburg based *popular* bands would be listed first, with a few of the lesser known (but still national) acts afterwards. It would make the section seem a lot less... transparent and insecure?

Also, is there any point in mentioning that someone from TMBG "lives" there? William Basinski and many other non Williamsburg associated artists live in the area. I don't think there's any need to list obscure residents, no matter how much their music rocks.

EDIT: The East Village page lists relevant musicians like this:

"Among the many important bands and singers who got their start at these clubs and other venues in downtown New York were: the New York Dolls, Patti Smith, Arto Lindsay, the Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads, the Plasmatics, Glenn Danzig, Sonic Youth, the Beastie Boys, Anthrax, and The Strokes."

I think that's a much more relevant list, and the simple qualifier "got their start" would allow us to keep some of these bands, as it would no longer be necessary that the bands "be from" Williamsburg (since few young people in Williamsburg are actually *from* Williamsburg or NYC for that matter).

68.166.97.195 19:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Grassroots Activities

It seemed that the grassroots section should mention activities and campaigns that have focused on the housing development, and the numerous issues that are attached to that. Residential development is the most important issue that the neighborhood is facing, and there are lots of organizations that are focusing efforts on it. I also made a mention of the successful campaign for bicycle parking. Wa67 (talk) 18:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Rent controlled/stabilized paragraph

Why is this here? Since the paragraph doesn't talk about Williamsburg specifically, a simple Wikilink should suffice. Plus, bunching a group of external links doesn't really help the reader know where the information comes from. I'm taking it out for now - please discuss before reinserting. --Mosmof (talk) 23:08, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

since rents constantly change and are hard to document i thought the regulations which govern rents in nyc and therefore williamsburg brooklyn would be information worth providing for anyone researching the topic. perhaps i should have organized the paragraph & links better. many people do arrive in williamsburg from other parts of the country and the world ignorant of the complex rules governing rents there and those rules play a large part in determining who buys, rents, and lives in williamsburg. --Pauljoffe (talk) 02:30, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Best to move the relevant paragraphs to Rent control in New York. Jim.henderson (talk) 02:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Huge WTC Photo

At the least, the placement of the burning towers photo alongside 17th-19th century Williamsburg is an odd choice. In general, why is this photo here? The towers could be seen from most of New York. It takes up a lot of page space and doesn't contribute to the article. It won't be orphaned since it's currently on the Collapse of the World Trade Center page. Ando228 (talk) 04:00, 25 September 2008 (UTC)