Talk:Death of Gloria Ramirez

DMSO

This DMSO section seems highly implausible. What would cause the DMSO in her blood to react with the oxygen in her lungs to form dimethyl sulfate? Is this reaction spontaneously occurring? The author also wants us to believe that evaporation at room temperature of a chemical whose boiling point is 370 C would produce enough gas to affect several people in a large room. This explanation seems to violate even my meager understanding of chemistry. Coupled with the fact that it lacks a source, this article seems highly dubious. Is there anyone that knows more about this case and can provide a source and better explanation of this DMSO theory? Terron (talk) 19:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I strongly agree with this. The entire DMSO section is totally ludicrous. "DMSO is relatively harmless, but with one oxygen atom added, it becomes dimethyl sulfone, But now add two oxygen atoms to dimethyl sulfone it becomes dimethyl sulfate." Really? Water is two atoms away from an explosive mix of pure oxygen and hydrogen gas, but you don't see lakes spontaneously exploding. Provide a plausible reaction, or this statement is totally useless. The rest of it is a weak chain of "Somehow the blood becomes supersaturated with DMSO" and "Somehow it turns into dimethyl sulfone" and "somehow it became airborne". Combined with a complete lack of citations, I am radically altering this section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.97.72 (talk) 17:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I agreed until I read the discovery article. They make an excellent case. 76.105.183.62 (talk) 13:00, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Response to Terron: Please see the technical references added to the main article. The boiling point of a chemical compound, although related, is less important in this case than the material’s vapor pressure at ambient temperature. As for dimethyl sulfate, an oily liquid at room temperature, its vapor pressure is greater than that of (for example) naphthalene (mothballs). As most people can readily detect a presence of mothballs in their proximity, and only microgram to milligram quantities of dimethyl sulfate were necessary for the Riverside incident, the postulated toxic vapor for the ER insult would seem not to be a problem.

Response to Unsigned: Before you pass judgment on anything chemical, you would do well to gain at least some rudimentary comprehension of chemistry, chemical properties, and chemical reactions. Based on this example of your understanding, you would also be strongly advised to refrain from editing anything in this area – or at least remaining anonymous. What’s true is that if you add an oxygen atom to (liquid) DMSO via a suitable oxidation reaction, you get (solid) dimethyl sulfone, popular as a cutting agent for street drugs among other uses. If you further add another oxygen atom, you get (liquid) dimethyl sulfate, a deadly poisonous substance with measured LD₅₀ values and myriad warning labels. So, yes, single-atom changes in chemistry are known to alter many physical and chemical properties of matter, in this case going from an ingestible substance to a toxin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.115.27.11 (talk) 00:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello? This woman had cancer. Chemotherapy does monstrous things to a person's biological chemistry. Even after you stop chemo, it stays in your system for some time. This could have been some reaction/combination of the chemo with the DMSO. Has anyone put forth that idea, or am I completely off base? --Bluejay Young (talk) 09:04, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Ramirez was described by those directly involved in the case as a noncompliant patient with terminal cancer. Conventional chemotherapy was not part of her medical history. However, there were rumours (only) at the time that she may have made trips to Mexico for laetrile or other unconventional treatment(s). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.251.139 (talk) 07:20, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Bad time signatures

She was admitted at 8:15, was sedated with meds and when she failed to respond to treatment they began defibrillating. Later in the article it says she died at 8:50, after 45 minutes of CPR and defibrillation. So basically 10 minutes before she arrived at the hospital she was being ressucitated and then once she arrived they sedated her and began defibrillating. --Carbonrodney (talk) 10:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)