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Centro Galleria

This extract from the history section of Centro Galleria doesn't sit right with me:

"Centro Galleria was officially opened in 1973 by Westfield Group it was largely demolished in 1989 to make way for a newer, larger shopping centre. The shopping centre reopened in 1994 after a five year long major redevelopment, and has had incremental expansions over time since then. The shopping centre was built by the Coles Myer Group, and Collier road was re-routed around the center."

I thought Morley just had a freestanding K-mart store (now part of Galleria), maybe a freestanding supermarket, the burnt-down Boans and that other complex that's still there on the northern side. Was there a Westfield on the site before the big 1994 construction, can anyone recall? And what are these incremental expansions to the centre since 1994? I don't know of any, unless it's a car park or something equally minor. - Mark 09:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't recall (I lived SOTR in those days), but here's some semi-related background including a nice photo of the Boans fire, which should at least be mentioned as site history. Moondyne 08:11, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Henrietta is always good for a giggle

• http://henrietta.liswa.wa.gov.au/search~S1?/Xboans+morley&searchscope=1&Da=&Db=&p=&SORT=D/Xboans+morley&searchscope=1&Da=&Db=&p=&SORT=D&SUBKEY=boans%20morley/1%2C14%2C14%2CB/frameset&FF=Xboans+morley&searchscope=1&Da=&Db=&p=&SORT=D&9%2C9%2C
• [Fire destroys Boans shopping complex at Morley.] Sunday times (Perth, W.A.), 22 June 1986, p.3,
• see also http://henrietta.liswa.wa.gov.au/search/X?SEARCH=boans+morley&searchscope=1&Da=&Db=&p=&SORT=D
• see also http://henrietta.liswa.wa.gov.au/search/X?SEARCH=galleria+morley&searchscope=1&Da=&Db=&p=&SORT=D

That should keep you out of mischief for a few secs - I am going to be having a henrietta and wikibreak soon - It is well worth trying henrietta first - oggle has nothing in comparison on such subjects SatuSuro 10:14, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Original Research warning

From my memory of Morley of the late 80's there was four main buildings divided by Collier road that ran more or less north south. The land and buildings of the area became Galleria

1. Boans was on the eastern side of Collier road set back in the carpark and had a string of about 4 small shops with open verandah, the building was a two story steel, concrete, asbestos construction. The Boans building was the one destroyed by fire the shops were were damages by smoke and water but closed due the extend of the damage and concerns about asbestos at the site.
2. The Generator Hotel, was also on the eastern side of Collier road but set at the intersection of Wellington, Walter, & Collier. It continued to operate well after the fire and during the most of the construction. I spent many a Friday night there mainstay of the bands was the Jetz. I think it closed/demolished within months of the official opening and was just turned into carpark.
3. Kmart/Coles building this building was a free standing building faced north, was on the western side of Collier. Behind this was a large sump/swamp/drain feed from the carpark. Kmart remained open during construction, the footprint of the store has remained basically unchanged. Coles was along side(east of Kmart) and both faced the carpark there was a enclosed glass walkway in front/joining the two stores. During early construction coles continued to operate at some stage coles moved into its current location, though not sure if it traded uninterupted, but it did trade for a reasonable length of time(months) before the centre opened.
4. Target/Woolworths This was the newest of the buildings it was on the southern side of the sump and the western side of Collier rd. The building was a T shape shopping center with Target and Woolworths kinda facing off (entrances offset) on the southern end, running across the top of the T was a number of shops. These continued to trade uninterupted during construction, target, woolworths are also on the same footprint they had prior to construction, only the right top of the T was altered.
   

There wasnt any building I can recall as being title Westfield, though I suspect it was the Target complex if any that would have been named in 1973 as it was the last of the shopping areas to be built and had an actual shopping centre layout. I dont recall a Westfield brand named complex until Carousel was refurbished at around the same time, then both Galleria and Carousel started using the name. The significant alterations was rerouting of Collier road, which would now run across the actual footprint of Boans. The sump/swamp still affects the site is the reason why the building orientates eastwards. There was a street that ran east/west across the front of Kmart thats been all but absorbed into the carpark it does have lights on Russel. The buildings that house Fast Eddies, Etamougha Pub etc were late additions that area was were the Generator was and it became carpark. All of the are that includes Myers was built during the 1994 works. There was a Bunnings, the building is still there but its tennent has changed this was on the eastern side of collier originally but with the rerouting its now on the western side. There was also a Drive in Cinema on Walter rd east of Boans that closed around the same time as the fire occured, I dont think its land was incorporated into the footprint of Galleria or Collier road. Gnangarra 13:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

http://www.slwa.wa.gov.au/images/pd258/258,208PD.jpg is a good reminder for oldies as to where the drive in was SatuSuro 13:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

nice it was where I remebered, but being so young well....Gnangarra 14:21, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I have an idea your "Target/Woolworths" building might have been named "Morley City". Hesperian 22:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The sump is still there, by the way. It is the only structure to have survived. Ironic? Hesperian 22:46, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I think Morely city was to the northwest of the Kmart site whos basic structure still exists. Gnangarra 10:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't that Morley Markets? Or was it the other way around? Hesperian 10:50, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I've whipped up a vector map of the Morley shopping district from 1975 LISWA aerial photos. Any help with identifying the buildings would be appreciated. - Mark 15:43, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I can help with that, having been closely involved with the Morley shopping precinct between 1975 and 1983. The main elements were Progress Street with Morley Markets on the Walter Road side and Coles-K-Mart on the other. (Morley City was further up Russell Street.) A big battle was fought over several years by a union of Bayswater Shire personnel and developer Colonial Mutual to close off Collier Road and reroute all traffic to the developer's wishes. They were opposed in a big campaign by established traders in the centre, including Morley Markets, Coles/K-Mart, the Morley Park Hotel, etc. D'Orazio became shire president when his predecessor's supporters were thinned out at the annual election in 1983. I may have some old maps in my archive. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 03:47, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like the Eastern Reporter or its predecessors may be of use too from that period. Orderinchaos 07:23, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

WA Inc, Bevan Lawrence, etc

Recent publication of Prof. Quentin Beresford's The Godfather: the life of Brian Burke (Allen & Unwin 2008) now provides much-needed impeccable citations for resurrection of an article on Bevan Lawrence which was deleted for inadequately stated reasons. I am prepared to initiate this work. Can anyone access a copy of the deleted material for private reference, please? The new book is also, of course, a mine of citable data on the Burkes and their notable associates before, during and after the WA Inc era. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 03:14, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I've emailed it to you. Restoration of the article will be slightly problematic and you will need to tread carefully. The article was clearly removed on notability issues, hardly "for inadequately stated reasons", and the discussion blanked for BLP reasons. A new source won't necessarily improve notability. Please don't restore or userfy it until these issues are addressed. –Moondyne 04:43, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Ta. Rest assured I have no significant interest in Carmen. His PFFOG stuff is more notable and in need of being placed on wider record, and there's no hurry. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 07:49, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Essentially an article which is simply a coatrack for allegations against his sister would not be acceptable. It's worth noting our current BLP policy and the two ArbCom decisions related to it which emphasise the seriousness with which such issues are viewed. Quite separately, Bevan would also need to meet Wikipedia's notability standard, too. As a curiosity I do intend to work on Brian Burke and some other premier articles next year and possibly get them to FA - Burke's is actually a very interesting tale and a lot more complicated than the papers like to paint it, either now (godfather/antihero) or at the time he was popular (Mr Everything/saviour of the state etc). Orderinchaos 07:22, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Christ Church Grammar School

Hi, could I get someone to look at the article - User:Topology Expert has wandered by and is convinced the school is some sort of inhuman sports camp, inserting his POV into the article with unreferenced and OR statements. I've repeatedly asked for citations but he's just ignoring me and making things up. TRS-80 (talk) 08:51, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

article improvement

The article History of Western Australia needs an improvement in the lead section. I'm likely to forget, and not likely to do it soon. Does someone want to have a go? cygnis insignis 16:12, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Agree, it needs major work. Feel free. ;) –Moondyne 02:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I've taken a swing past added bits 'n peices and created a 3 para lead though this still needs some tinkering with Gnangarra 13:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Suburb Info box

The formatting of the box was altered at some stage now all surrounding suburbs are automatically linked, which was a good idea but the reality of the situation given that we dab all Australian place names isnt so good. An example is Ashfield, Western Australia only one of the Bayswater links are to the local burb the other is to Bayswater in the UK. Either we need to embark on a burb by burb dab or have the info box changed, any thoughts on which way to go? Gnangarra 01:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Good point actually. Was done when we did the infobox but when one thinks logically through it, there seems no good reason to maintain autolinks on those fields, so I've undone it on the template. Orderinchaos 09:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Early Days

Does anyone have access to Vol. 6 Part 3 1964? Specifically looking for "The foundation of British rule in the West: H.M.C.S. Amity and H.M.S. Success" by Marcus Conrad, starting p.62. Thanks. –Moondyne 12:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I will look in UWA tomorrow (am there for other reasons already). Orderinchaos 12:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks mate. –Moondyne 01:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Apologies about this one - I will get it tomorrow or the following day. I haven't actually been to UWA yet. Orderinchaos 13:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Not me. Hesperian 12:41, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Need RS re gay venues

You wouldn't have thought it was so difficult to find a reliable source which says the Court Hotel and Connections Nightclub are the two main gay venues in Perth (for the most part the only gay venues, but anything else that does spring up is temporary). It's common knowledge, but the only RS I can find for it is the front page of the Guardian Express in an article that quotes press releases from a Perth councillor and the Court themselves. I've hunted Factiva and even the academic sites - any ideas, anyone? Orderinchaos 09:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

maybe we are an enlightened bread here in Perth and such trivial information just isnt notable or we west ostriches keep our heads in the sand... Gnangarra 13:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Maybe try

Lingane, Dennis.(1999) "Drag on draught", Sunday times (Checkout section), 20 June 1999, p.10.

Hesperian 23:14, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what's more embarrassing - knowing where to find RS for gay venues, or claiming that the Slimes -and the checkout section in particular - is a RS! Are there any mentions in hansard or CofP council meetings - or maybe court case reports of hate crimes? The-Pope (talk) 23:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what's more embarrassing - knowing where to find RS for gay venues... "... not that there's anything wrong with that", right? Hesperian 23:48, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If the article isnt about the Court Hotel its self then court Hotel website offers some stuff alternatiev gay in wa has [1] this on a Court Hotel AHA award. Gnangarra 23:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Get a print copy of Lonely Planet Western Australia. That usually includes that sort of info. Here's the online entry for Perth entertainment - Gobeirne (talk) 23:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah thanks. :) Will try Lonely Planet. Orderinchaos 13:43, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

As a complete aside (and continuing on embarrassing) - I just realised our annual Pride Festival doesn't have an article of any kind. I don't even know where to *start* with that one as I'm not an arts/culture kind of person, but I note the Adelaide and Melbourne varieties have articles. Orderinchaos 13:43, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal

Career Fire and Rescue Service of Western Australia → Fire and Emergency Services Authority of Western Australia ?? –Moondyne 07:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Have to agree the WAF&RS should be included as part of the history of FESA not a separate article.Dan arndt (talk) 07:12, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

 Done –Moondyne 09:09, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Fremantle harbour

I'm going to have a crack at this. But should it be called Fremantle port? Davidcohen (talk) 07:48, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Fremantle Harbour looks good. Well done. –Moondyne 08:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Penguin Island

I'm really not in the mood to write in an article right now, but I saw a fairly decent article about the history of Penguin Island in the travel liftout of today's West Australian. Hopefully one of you will feel inclined to harvest it for suitable material for our article about the island. - Mark 11:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

notin the mood to write an article right now; I hope you're feeling better soon. Hesperian 11:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Interwiki project

Main page: User:Orderinchaos/Interwiki WA

Just to cast out a bit wider what I've been working on - over the last few days I've conducted an audit of the Western Australian articles hosted on other language Wikis. The state of both the articles and the level of coverage really varies quite widely, from pretty good on German and French to pretty weak on dozens of others. 20 wikis have non-trivial coverage of WA topics, whilst 45 have WA and/or Perth only as articles. This may be overstating it a bit, as at least one wiki had "Australia's province" and a map from Commons as the only content for Western Australia, and the Estonians created a heap of substubs for small WA towns starting with A and B.

I've talked to someone else who ran a similar project in their area of interest and got some ideas. One thing that came up is the need to develop clear, straightforward articles in basic English which are suitable for unambiguous translation. (Note that this is not the same standard of English which may be suitable for en.wikipedia.) These can be offered to any project that wants them.

I've already engaged five native-language editors on various wikis who are willing to help correct the machine translations for grammar and meaning once we have the end products. I was surprised at the level of interest especially from German, Italian, Dutch and former Yugoslav editors to have vastly improved Australian coverage.

Ultimately the end result, if successful, will be that several different languages will be able to offer a meaningful, locally-vetted collection of information about Western Australia to their readers. I think this is a good aim. It may also set an interesting challenge for the other Australian projects.

I'm going to be on Wikibreak for three weeks, but I thought I'd chuck this out for ideas as to:

1. what people think the scope should be (I favour a limited but useful one)
2. see who is interested in helping to develop this resource on the English end
3. find out if anyone here speaks any other languages well (preferably natively but doesn't have to be)
4. any other issues, challenges or ideas.

Unless other people volunteer, the development idea I have in mind is that I write the articles, others check them over / suggest improvements, and then as a job lot, we get them distributed. Orderinchaos 07:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds interesting; I'd be happy to help out. Do you have an example article that shows general content and writing style?

In regards to point 3, I wanted to write "I used to know Japanese" in Japanese, but all my rusty brain can work out in that sentence is "私は日本語を..." which only mentions the words "I" and "Japanese", and nothing useful at all (and took forever to enter - I probably should uninstall the Japanese language stuff from my computer and save myself the hassle). So, I'll volunteer for writing in English, but certainly not for translating anything! Somno (talk) 13:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks :) Translation isn't the greatest need - it seems to be there's just about no wiki where there aren't bilingual speakers and translators, and we can get a machine translation (with a fair bit of checking) to do 75% of the work so they just have to check our version for grammar etc. Given the breadth of coverage on French, German and Dutch I'm probably going to try working with them first, and that will allow us to refer strong speakers in those languages who may not be as strong in English on other wikis to those versions. With Afrikaans, which we don't have a translator for, the quality of the articles they're producing themselves on WA topics is quite high (their wiki has featured one of them!) and it may just be a matter of assisting those already doing the excellent work over there. Might also try and get Serbian going as it seems once you've done that, you have the basis for about 4 or 5 language wikis (Croatian, Serbocroatian (yes, they have a separate wiki!), Bosnian, Macedonian and likely others), plus I have a friend who speaks that as a native language and can check them before they're posted. Estonian will be the interesting challenge - they've produced loads of substubs for us which I'd rather like to see improved. So the main task is just getting it right at our end. Orderinchaos 20:28, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi. An interesting project. Feel free to throw a couple of discrete tasks my way if you want. My 'other language' skills don't extend beyond rough conversational French & Japanese (just enough to draw puzzled expressions from native speakers of those lanaguages) and thus of no use to your project but I'll do what I can in terms of generating or refining suitable content in English. A couple of observations: Seems the greatest effort required will be in the translation and ongoing 'management' eg translating future edits, monitoring changes etc. Also - I don't see that much is achieved by having an article about a small town or a regional highway tranalated into 30 or 40 languages. For both these reasons, I'd suggest (at least initially) limiting the scope to a small number of large articles - enough to provide broad understanding and coverage of WA, and focussing the effort on getting a few articles in good shape across multiple Wikis. Without seeing the numerous Estonian stubs (starting with the letters A and B) you referred to, I can't see that having 200 small WA towns C through to Z covered by Estonian sub articles would achieve more international understanding of WA (if that's the objective) than would a dozen 'high-level' articles polished up and properly translated into 50 languages. Still, anything is possible with enough resources.GlenDillon 03:41, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Totally agreed. et:Baandee is a good example of the Estonian stubs, by the way. Their admins have no interest in deleting them (I asked). The "dozen high-level articles polished up and properly translated" is pretty much my aim here. Orderinchaos 05:03, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

WA has a town called Baandee? Learn something new every day... How do we decide which places to focus on initially? Population? Somno (talk) 09:17, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Population and then, below a certain level, importance, I'd say. Definite absolute musts are our five cities (Albany, Bunbury, Geraldton, Kalgoorlie, Mandurah) plus Fremantle. As a bit of a test, I wrote stubs for the regionals in Arabic today. Got back to en and the bot had already figured it out and added them as interwiki links. Gotta love automation. Orderinchaos 10:11, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

In that case, someone should break the news to Joondalup that it's not a city... I would add our common tourist destinations (not to "promote" them to other countries, but rather because they may have heard of these places and be interested in reading about them): Monkey Mia, Margaret River and Broome. Somno (talk)

Also places of major industrial importance such as Dampier. (Those three you mention are quite well represented across the 20 wikis with more than trivial coverage of WA.) Orderinchaos 08:53, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) I thought I posted this last week, but it seemed to disappear, or never appear, so I'll say it again. This is where the importance category should be of use. I would guess that every article in Category:Top-importance Western Australia articles should be translated into every wiki. Most articles in Category:High-importance Western Australia articles should be targetted to be translated as well. Mid or low importance articles are likely to be translated only if there is a specific reason - ie some of the more obscure Dutch explorer articles are more likely to show up in the nl.wikipedia than in the ja.wikipedia. Conversely it's a good chance to review the allocation of importance on all the articles that you are considering for this project - you might find an article that has been marked as mid or low, that you feel is really a more important one and should be marked as such - or have some top or high articles that aren't really that important. Obviously the importance should pertain primarily to the en.wiki but this is a good question to ask. Is this top importance article worth translating to other wikis? The-Pope (talk) 12:07, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

For WA project attention

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Gerald_Glaskin - has been offered for some odd reason. SatuSuro 02:27, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Solved. The offshoot of this is that Glaskin's identity as one of the early homosexual writers ( he didnt 'come out' until later in life) in Perth - as a consequence the now vigorously politicised and present community in perth has a media presnce, members of parliament identifiably of the lgbt persuasion and all - anyone any material for an article for Perth?

Also for the scandal enthusiastic - Saturdays West has a revamp of the Shirley Finn story that does not go away - but interestingly the names of those involved that have circulated over the last couple of decades are in print (the most common story doing the rounds was it was a hitman from east who was paid for by a politician and some tops cops who didnt like the heat being put on by shirley) SatuSuro 12:06, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I arrived in South Perth from Sydney only weeks before Finn was executed in her 'Mafia staff car'. I was soon made aware of an earlier, possibly linked, episode in which a middle-ranking cop called 'Spike' Daniels sought to expose illicit police involvement in brothels. I understand that 'Spike' was sent for the customary psychiatric branding and ruthlessly ejected from the fraternity. Bjenks (talk) 00:27, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Karratha, Western Australia

I've had a crack at cleaning up this article and would welcome any assistance in improving it. Cheers Bjenks (talk) 15:55, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Looks great to me - good work :) Should we have articles on the suburbs? Orderinchaos 15:58, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

You choose! I've also had a crack at Pannawonica, though my personal experience of it goes back about 30 years. Bjenks (talk) 16:05, 27 January 2009 (UTC)