Talk:Aphex Twin

Computer albums

I've altered a section in the analord section that claims his previous albums were just soft synths and computers, as it seems a lot more likely that he used hardware then processed it for drukqs as well as for some late nineties material. it was probably just the mid 90's stuff that used computers exclusively. Melaena (talk) 19:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe I added that, it was my intention to refer to those previous albums like Richard D James in that sentence. Despite, I think the article is best without it.Rtyq2 (talk) 22:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Tregaskin+Tregaskin=James

Both Discogs.com and Rushup Edge's Allmusic Guide Review claim that The Tuss is, in fact, another name for Aphex Twin. What should we do with the The Tuss article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lord Weasel (talk • contribs) 03:45, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Well it's still not 100 % certain. I would however just include whatever you to write about The Tuss in the Aphex Twin article and state it's still uncertain it is in fact Richard D James but that credible sources think it is, and cite that Allmusic article. Biggiesmartypants (talk) 13:45, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Every track from Confederation Trough EP and Rushup Edge is registered with BMI as being written by Richard David James. (BMI Repertoire Search, search for "james richard david" as a composer/songwriter) You can't get much more officially confirmed than that. —Eclipsed Moon (talk) 00:05, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah - how much longer are we going to have to wait before we can put The Tuss as a confirmed RDJ alias? If the BMI Repertoire Search says it is him - it is him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.236.128.11 (talk) 00:35, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Right now we just have it linking to The Tuss saying it's unconfirmed, which seems good enough. Once (if it ever) gets officially confirmed, we'll change it. Rtyq2 (talk) 21:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

It's pretty much officially confirmed. BMI is the most factual of a source you're going to get, unfortunately you can't say the same about Richard. ChunkyStyle (talk contribs) 04:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

mention BMI facts backed up by source. quote rephlex sayin' 'tuss is not aphex. who cares. music more important' = balanced + sorted (aka the wikipedia way) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.214.216 (talk) 08:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I added a section called "rephlex's denial" to The Tuss. Hopefully that should balance out the article. And feel free to add more to it. Rtyq2 (talk) 18:19, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

The second sentence: Aphex described as "the most inventive and influential"

"He has been described as "the most inventive and influential figure in contemporary electronic music."[1]" from source [3]

This is an opening of an article that's ment to lure readers in, I left it out. It is not a source that can be copied in the opening paragraph of this article. I guess Aphex Twin could be called influential somewhere in the article but with extreme caution because it's Point of View.

Why has this been placed back?Biggiesmartypants (talk) 19:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Removed this sentence again.Biggiesmartypants (talk) 20:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

..and it's back again. my 2c - it's a referenced statement, and is relatively neutral. to put it another way, we can't say 'he is the most influential figure in electronic music' but we can say 'he has been described as the most influential figure in electronic music', and provide a reference. i say keep it. --Kaini (talk) 15:09, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

A source would be a book or an article from someone who knows what he's talking about, not the quoted article. The quoted article is not scientific. It may be fun to read for someone who doesn't know aphex twin but otherwise it's worthless. This second sentence of this wiki page makes it ridiculous from the get-go. The rest is sub-par too so i guess it fits. I'm out Biggiesmartypants (talk) 12:51, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

that ref is from the guardian. refs don't get much more verifiable/notable than that. Also this article should be geared towards 'someone who doesn't know aphex twin'! --Kaini (talk) 09:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

It's been kind of quoted out of context because what I said about luring the reader in, it's typical journalistic stuff to keep the reader interested. Also this journalist isn't an authoritiy on musical influence (I have looked the writer up). I personally am not able to read past such a sentence in an opening paragraph in a wiki. I agree with your "Also this article should be geared towards 'someone who doesn't know aphex twin'!" but at the same time I'd want the article as scientifically correct as possible. Biggiesmartypants (talk) 14:50, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay I'm proposing this instead: "Many artists have said they've been influenced by the music of Aphex Twin. Many critics have applauded the innovativeness of his sound." Or something that's worded better. I propose this becauese it is more factual and therefor encyclopedic (sources with these sentences would be nice). Or I'm proposing a sentence similar to the one that's there now, but from an authoritative figure. Biggiesmartypants (talk) 07:55, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I put this discussion back from the archive, I don't agree on it being archived after a month. Also I still don't agree with the sentense, I should remove it again, as the last time it was removed by a bot. Also I could do a poll, but as a poll is a way of starting discussion I don't feel like it because I'm done discussing this, I'll leave it to future editors Biggiesmartypants (talk) 13:42, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Gear

He also used synthesizers of his generation, the Synton Fenix, and the notoriously difficult to program Roland MC-4 sequencer (a sequencer with a reputation for excellent timing), as well as the famous Roland TB-303 for his trademark acid melodies.

hrm... who is hyping up ebay items, huh? analord features over 100 machines. imo move the sentence to analord article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hexagonmoon (talk • contribs) 22:54, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

perhaps you could tell us some more of the 100+ machines? These (except 303) feature on the analord labels, so do Electrocomp sequencers on analord 9 The idea of someone needing to hype a Synton Fenix in this way, or at all, is proposterous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.243.124 (talk) 20:36, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

agreed. i'm trying to WP:AGF but i just cannot see how someone would interpret this as 'ebay hypery'. --Kaini (talk) 23:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Aphex twin covers?

I wonder would it be relevant to make a short list of songs covered by other artists..

I can only think of one off hand: Flim is covered by american jazz trio The Bad Plus on their album "these are the vistas" (2003 columbia records)

but if anyone can think of any others and get references i think it might be worth a quick mention.. or it could be put in the influence on others section.. 89.125.107.20 (talk) 22:13, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

well, there's an entire album of covers by Alarm Will Sound, as well as a cover of come to daddy by Dillinger Escape Plan. but i dunno if it warrants a new section. --Kaini (talk) 00:18, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I was only listening to Alarm Will Sound when I remembered I posted this here. Perhaps that at least deserves a mention in the influences on others section? That section could probably be tidied anyway.

89.125.106.70 (talk) 21:20, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Rumours

In the "History" section, under "Synthesizers and drum machines: 2004–2008" it says: "Rumours that he may have committed suicide in 1999 remain unproven, thou many suspect this may be true, and that the so called public "Aphex Twin" is just a guy in mask." Since when does wikipedia deal in rumour-mongering? Shouldn't this be removed? Wikipedia is not a tabloid magazine or a fan-forum/BBS. And also, it should say "Though" not "thou" 220.239.181.130 (talk) 23:52, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I removed it, there's no evidence to suggest this at all, probably just a troll edit. Geshpenst (talk) 04:31, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Stockhausen

Could we please cut out shenanigans like:

Stockhausen influenced Aphex Twin. Fact. It's in the references

All that is referenced explicitly is James having mocked Stockhausen, and even that only once. Could the Stockhausen supporters please cite their sources? And yes, explicitly: with names, date, link and all - the works. Else, it's WP policy to delete what is not sourced, glorious V doing the magic.

Here's James on Stockhausen:

Aphex Twin on “Song Of The Youth”

Mental! I’ve heard that track before, I like it. I didn’t agree with him. I thought he should listen to couple of tracks of mine: Didgeridoo, then he’d stop making abstract, random patterns you can’t dance to. Do you reckon he can dance? You could dance to Song Of The Youth, but it hasn’t got a groove in it, there’s no bassline. I know it was probably made in the 50s, but I’ve got plenty of wicked percussion records made in the 50s that are awesome to dance to. And they’ve got basslines. I could remix it. I don’t know about making it better; I wouldn’t want to make it into a dance version, but I could probably make it a bit more anally technical. But I’m sure he could these days, because tape is really slow. I used to do things like that with tape, but it does take forever, and I’d never do anything like that again with tape. Once you’ve got your computer sorted out, it pisses all over stuff like that, you can do stuff so fast. It has a different sound, but a bit more anal.

I haven’t heard anything new by him; the last thing was a vocal record, Stimmung, and I didn’t really like that. Would I take his comments to heart? The ideal thing would be to meet him in a room and have a wicked discussion. For all I know, he could be taking the piss. It’s a bit hard to have a discussion with someone via other people.

I don’t think I care about what he thinks. It is interesting, but it’s disappointing because you’d imagine he’d say that anyway. It wasn’t anything surprising. I don’t know anything about the guy, but I expected him to have that sort of attitude. Loops are good to dance to…

He should hang out with me any my mates: that would be a laugh. I’d be quite into having him round.

"I don’t think I care about what he thinks", "I don’t know anything about the guy" - no inference at all for Stocky having had influence on James, ok? It certainly doesn't matter that I feel Stockhausen to be an overrated moron, but when James thinks that a "computer [...] pisses all over stuff like that", meaning Stockhausen's taped silliness, it does - righto? Could all the Princes Charming please heed this advice: ridicule is nothing to be scared of! They can? Fine, thank you. --tickle me 17:02, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

This article in The Guardian cites Stockhausen as an influence on Aphex Twin. --Kaini (talk) 17:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello? One Simon Hattenstone, a "features writer" with a "weekly sports column"(!!), who never had heard of Stockhausen before, never had professional or personal experience with electronical or classical music, engages in humorous banter as the editor designated him as a guinea pig of sorts for the Guardian's "series on 'difficult' art forms", so the slot for a facetious essay can be filled. In the course of this endeavour, he tells of an equally non-descript "Alex Poots", who sends him a CD of electronic music composed by artists he, "Alex Poots" esq., feels to be "influenced by Stockhausen". So, this outweighs James' very own assertion, who doesn't "care what [Stockhausen] thinks", doesn't "know anything about the guy", and likens Stockhausen's clumsy endeavours succinctly to "piss"? Can we please stop being silly? Which eventually means stop cherry-picking from the results of hasty unrelated google-searches? ...to back up Stockhausen's fanboys' notion that their master influenced real musicians, too? The ones with balls and brains? And could we be bothered not to revert disputed edits per WP policy? And *not* to edit until we got verifiable and -hello?!- authoritative sources that outweigh James himself? Once and for all? --tickle me 22:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

You are now removing referenced material from a reliable source in order to make the article fit your ideas regarding Aphex and Stockhausen. This is not the way we do things on wiki. To tell the truth, I don't particularly care if Stockhausen is mentioned in the article or not, what I have a problem with is, and I repeat, your removal of referenced material from a reliable source in order to make the article fit your ideas regarding Aphex and Stockhausen. --Kaini (talk) 22:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

here's another reference for you, from The Independent. --Kaini (talk) 22:35, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

and another, from an interview with James in The Guardian, Friday October 5, 2001. --Kaini (talk) 23:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

It's not enough to quote a reliable source, the source must actually back up a claim. Wikipedia has been touting the Stockhausen/Aphex Twins link for long, and papers copy it: this is disastrous. None of these articles gives any proof of James seeing himself connected in any way to Stockhausen, they exclusively purvey the author's assessments about it. This...

Whereas most white musicians these days are born of the blues and the Beatles, Aphex Twin's lineage is Stockhausen, John Cage, Kraftwerk, Brian Eno and the Detroit techno of Derrick May.

...says: I, the Guardian's author, cited in the non-authoritative and non-reliable source "aphextwin.nu", feel Aphex Twins to be related to Stockhausen et al.

The Independent's E. Dugan, however, does actually purport such nonsense indeed. How can I put it nicely? If James qualifies Stockhausen's efforts as, quote, "piss", unquote, and makes clear that he doesn't "know" him and doesn't "care" about his thoughts, than this is ultimate proof of Ms Dugan copying received wisdom from their peers, who are none the wiser. James makes it quite clear in the only explicit interview available, that he loathes Stockhausen. The interview is copied and linked to above. All sources, at the very best of encyclopedic propriety, can be summed up like this:

Some journalists claim Aphex Twins' music to be influenced by Stockhausen, though Richard D. James denies this in the strongest terms possible, likening his efforts to "piss", asserting that he doesn't know Stockhausen and doesn't care what he thinks.

I edited accordingly. --tickle me 01:25, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

the aphextwin.nu link is a transcription of an earlier article from perfectly reliable source. i can make the cites pretty and quote that source if you like. and they way the article is after your edits, it reads dreadfully and contains WP:WEASEL words. here's an interview with James where he states (after playing at a Stockhausen-centric event in The Barbican) "I’m doing this Stockhausen thing because it will probably be his last gig and I actually just wanted to get tickets. He’s played live a few times recently but only new things and I don’t really like them. They are conceptually amazing but I don’t really like the music. They are probably too advanced or whatever. (laughs) But this time he is playing his first three electronic pieces.

additionally, repeatedly using "aphex twins" in your response is, well, a bit troll-ish to be honest.

how many references must I add to the article before it meets your standards, Tickle me? --Kaini (talk) 01:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Let's add more of that quote, right?:

I’m not making a conscious decision to play in these places. I’d rather play in a shit club anyday. I’m doing this Stockhausen thing because it will probably be his last gig and I actually just wanted to get tickets. He’s played live a few times recently but only new things and I don’t really like them. They are conceptually amazing but I don’t really like the music. They are probably too advanced or whatever. (laughs)

What of this supports the idea of Stockhausen having had influence on James?

1. James preffering shit clubs any day?
2. James merely wanting to get tickets?
3. Not really liking the "new things?"
4. Not really liking "the music?"

This is getting out of bounds. Please stop.

> WP:WEASEL words
Indeed, I got carried away - and, hey, James' "piss" drives the point home nicely, doesn't it? --tickle me 03:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

---

PSF: Any interest in working with interactive systems and components?

I haven't done anything like that but I'm really interested in that sort of stuff. Anything odd or unusual like that. Electro-acoustics like that. A lot of it makes me laugh though because it's kind of like a science lesson with no music. A lot of people forget to make it into music. It's very technical and not very emotional. When it's got the two, then that's when I really like it.

PSF: Anyone in mind when you say that?

At the moment, I suppose it's just my friends who do it and a few old composers. I like the old tape and avant-garde music. I really like Stockhausen's first record. It's awesome. Don't really like much else after that. 'Songs of Youth' is my favorite one. Tod Docstader as well. He's an American (composer) from the '60s, working with tape music. At the moment, I like Luke Vibert. He's doing this tour with me. I love his music. I like Squarepusher as well.

http://www.furious.com/PERFECT/aphextwin.html

Aphex Twin likes some things of Stockhausen but doesn't like other things. Tickle Me, your argument about Aphex Twin not liking Stockhausen is now dead. He likes some things but not others.

Whereas most white musicians these days are born of the blues and the Beatles, Aphex Twin's lineage is Stockhausen, John Cage, Kraftwerk, Brian Eno and the Detroit techno of Derrick May. James takes in his stride the fact that he is now considered as important as these all-time electronic greats. Even having Madonna on the blower didn't faze him. She rang him one day out of the blue at home because she wanted some of his strange magic to rub off on her: cool by proxy. Aphex had other ideas for the mooted collaboration.

You see, it's directly implied here that Aphex Twin is quite relaxed about the fact that his music is influenced by these musicians who include Stockhausen. The word lineage implies the influence behind Aphex Twin's music includes that coming from the listed musicians, including Stockhausen. "James takes in his stride" implies that Aphex Twin is humbled to be considered on the same level as his predecessors. Take a listen to perc#6 or Gwarek2. Sounds similar in style to Stockhausen's Kontakte. The journalist actually talked to Aphex Twin, he didn't get the information from Wikipedia, he got it straight from the horse's mouth.

I don't see any solid argument that Stockhausen should be removed from the list of influences. It's absolutely ridiculous. I'm honestly stunned that it's being challenged. If there are further problems we can sort out the exact wording and references to at least try to satisfy Tickleme. Creating a win-win situation would be best.

"Some journalists claim Aphex Twins' music to be influenced by German composer Karlheinz Stockhausen,[34][35] though Richard D. James denies this, likening the composer's efforts to "piss", asserting that he doesn't know Stockhausen and doesn't care what he thinks.[36]" Well, this claim is not true, as seen by the two references that I have given, therefore I will delete this claim. --[signed User:Gargantuan_Peeder]

"Whereas most white musicians these days are born of the blues and the Beatles, Aphex Twin's lineage is Stockhausen, John Cage, Kraftwerk, Brian Eno and the Detroit techno of Derrick May. James takes in his stride the fact that he is now considered as important as these all-time electronic greats..."[1]

indeed, it could be inferred that one "Paul Lester", having read Wikipedia and copying it for want of better information, feels Aphex Twins to be related by Stockhausen et al. and be proud of it. Unfortunately, all James has to say for himself is, that he

1. likens the composer's efforts to "piss"
2. asserts that he doesn't "know anything about the guy"
3. doesn't care what he thinks.
4. prefering shit clubs any day to playing in Stochhausens behlf
5. doing it merely to get tickets to the barbican
6. doesn't really like the "new things?
7. doesn't really liking "the music?"

whereas in another interview he says that he

1. really like Stockhausen's first record
2. Doesn't really like much else after that

Get it? He "really like Stockhausen's first record" is all that can be added regarding this subject.

Besides, it really would help if one-time one-purpose editors wouldn't pop up anytime this article needs to be defaced in the vain above. cf [2] and [3]. --tickle me 12:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

---

You claim Paul Lester created the article after reading Wikipedia but the Guardian article was published in 2001. The column title of the article is "The Friday interview". A quote from the headline says "From Limp Bizkit to Madonna, everyone wants to work with the Aphex Twin. But those high-paying jobs aren't important, he tells Paul Lester." The article is based not on Wikipedia, but an interview by Paul Lester with Aphex Twin. Paul Lester directly communicated with Aphex Twin. I would like to point out the status of the Aphex Twin article on Wikipedia in 2001, it is a crude discography of 12 records along with 1 fully formed sentence and a few descriptive phrases, without a mention of Stockhausen. You said "indeed, it could be inferred that one "Paul Lester", having read Wikipedia and copying it for want of better information, feels Aphex Twins to be related by Stockhausen et al. and be proud of it." but that claim is simply not true, as shown by the vast amount of evidence in this paragraph.

http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Aphex_Twin&oldid=234239

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/stockhausen-enigmatic-maestro-dies-aged-79-763778.html Obituary of Stockhausen: "His unique blend of classical, avant-garde and electronic music propelled him to musical fame in the Fifties, and he has continued to influence a host of musical luminaries, from Miles Davis and Aphex Twin, to Brian Eno and Bjork"

http://www.furious.com/PERFECT/aphextwin.html "I'm really interested in that sort of stuff. Anything odd or unusual like that. Electro-acoustics like that. A lot of it makes me laugh though because it's kind of like a science lesson with no music. A lot of people forget to make it into music. It's very technical and not very emotional. When it's got the two, then that's when I really like it.

PSF: Anyone in mind when you say that?

At the moment, I suppose it's just my friends who do it and a few old composers. I like the old tape and avant-garde music. I really like Stockhausen's first record. It's awesome. Don't really like much else after that. 'Songs of Youth' is my favorite one. Tod Docstader as well. He's an American (composer) from the '60s, working with tape music. At the moment, I like Luke Vibert. He's doing this tour with me. I love his music. I like Squarepusher as well."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2001/oct/06/2 "He sends me a CD of electronic music composed by artists influenced by Stockhausen - Orbital, William Orbit, Talvin Singh, Bjork, Aphex Twin."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2001/oct/05/artsfeatures3 "Aphex Twin's lineage is Stockhausen, John Cage, Kraftwerk, Brian Eno and the Detroit techno of Derrick May. James takes in his stride the fact that he is now considered as important as these all-time electronic greats. "

As refuted above, this was taken from an interview article where the journalist communicated directly with Aphex Twin. It was not created using Wikipedia because the Wikipedia page of the time barely featured more than one sentence, notwithstanding absolutely no mention of Stockhausen at the time.

I'd like to refute numbered point 1:

     " 1. likens the composer's efforts to "piss" 

Where?

"Once you’ve got your computer sorted out, it pisses all over stuff like that, you can do stuff so fast. It has a different sound, but a bit more anal."

Aphex Twin is bragging about his computer, not criticising Stockhausen with the word piss.

"Would I take his comments to heart? The ideal thing would be to meet him in a room and have a wicked discussion. For all I know, he could be taking the piss. It’s a bit hard to have a discussion with someone via other people."

He's wondering if Stockhausen's criticism of Aphex Twin was fully serious or not.

http://www.aphextwin.nu/images/interviewsarticles/afx_interview_by_heiko.pdf

I had a look through this source about the Barbican gig but there is no mention of Aphex Twin likening Stockhausen's music to "piss".

Some journalists claim Aphex Twins' music to be influenced by German composer Karlheinz Stockhausen,[34][35] though Richard D. James denies this, likening the composer's efforts to "piss", asserting that he doesn't know Stockhausen and doesn't care what he thinks.[36]

There is no reference of Aphex Twin denying that Stockhausen is an influence on him. There is no evidence of him saying that the newspaper articles are untrue. Aphex Twin didn't liken Stockhausen's efforts to piss, and the reference that you're using to make that claim doesn't contain the claim.

Whether Aphex Twin personally knew Stockhausen or not is irrelevant to whether he was influenced by some of his music or not. Aphex Twin said he didn't care what Stockhausen though, but let's put this into context, this article is from 1995, while the others are from 2001 and after.

Tickleme, it takes a lot of effort to refute all of your claims, but I have demonstrated quite comfortably that most of your claims are untrue, backed up by references. I believe the effort that I am putting in is out of proportion to what has happened: you deleting the word "stockhausen" out of the influences section.

Anyone can edit wikipedia, that's why it's awesome. What matters is whether the people involved are trying to improve the encyclopaedia by telling the truth and backing it up with good sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gargantuan Peeder (talk • contribs) 13:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

what really bothers me about this dispute is that tickle me doesn't really seem to have any interest in Richard James, but rather seems to have a problem with Stockhausen. this attempt to introduce a subtle bias into wiki is a more insidious thing than straight-up vandalism, and it's the sort of thing that makes me very disillusioned with wiki sometimes :( --Kaini (talk) 14:56, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Stockausen II

" ... But I’m sure he could these days, because tape is really slow. I used to do things like that with tape, but it does take forever, and I’d never do anything like that again with tape. Once you’ve got your computer sorted out, it pisses all over stuff like that, you can do stuff so fast. It has a different sound, but a bit more anal."

Some English semantics for beginners from a non-native speaker: "he" refers to Stockhausen - "things like that," "anything like that," and "stuff like that" a computer "pisses all over" refers to Stockhausen's "stuff." "stuff" Stockhausen did with tape, which James feels to be a bad idea, as he prefers computers, because with it "you can do stuff so fast."

> There is no reference of Aphex Twin denying that Stockhausen is an influence on him
There's no evidence of Aphex Twin denying to peddle crack, either .

> There is no evidence of him saying that the newspaper articles are untrue
There's no evidence to the contrary, either, but many instances of James mocking Stockhausen, his work, and his procedures, making it highly unlikely that James feels S. to have had influence on him. We simply won't write anything that can't be proven. Cut it out. And please, stop arguing by attrition, bizarro logic, and sock- pupettry to circumvent policy. --tickle me 22:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

what "pisses all over" refers to is the process. he's saying that the process of making concréte type stuff is made much easier by having access to things like wave editors and sequencers. i get the feeling that you should learn a bit more about the article you're editing, and james' frequent use of colloquialisms, particularly london ones ('lush' is another favourite of his, used to describe things that are good, for example). as to your accusations of sockpuppetry, it's frankly offensive. feel free to get a mod to checkuser. i'm about a hair's breadth (that's a colloquialism) from escalating this anyway --Kaini (talk) 22:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

There's enough evidence and references to back up having the word "Stockhausen" in the list of influences. I suggest getting Administrator attention, as I believe Tickleme will keep removing "Stockhausen" regardless of the evidence and good references. Tickle me is adding some heavily biased version of quotes to the Stockhausen VS the Technocrats section, which is the totally wrong section. What he is trying to add should go in the influences section, and the sentence that he is trying to add drips of bias, as he is twisting the source and chopping it up and presenting it to support his personal opinion. 1995 was when Aphex Twin was getting into computers. 2001 is when he peaked with laptops and then he got into tape for recording Analord. People's opinions, tastes, methods, and influences change as they grow up. It's a shame that Tickle me hasn't realised this because he is creating a lot of work for other people that is truly a waste of time.

> it pisses all over stuff like that

subject: it [the computer]

predicate: pisses

object: stuff [that Stockhausen does with tape]

"concréte type stuff" - if one so likes to heighten discourse with buzzwords.

> escalating

Please do. --tickle me 22:39, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

the situation at present-

there is a small amount of primary-source stuff (interviews from around the time of the release of drukqs, and the stockhausen gig in 2000) which would suggest james would count stockhausen as an influence.

there is LOTS of secondary evidence (articles and editorial matter) to suggest the same thing.

your evidence to the contrary is one article from 1995 which you are misinterpeting, or twisting the semantics of, to suggest the opposite.

i'm inviting further opinion on this argument. you honestly need to get real. --Kaini (talk) 22:42, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

> further opinion

That's talking - but: will funny, ugh, editors please abstain? Admins welcome. Another good idea: add quotes by James on Stockhausen having had influence on him, and let the readers judge by themselves - sound & basic WP policy. But: please don't plaster the place, instead reduce, shorten, and put what he says in a nutshell.--tickle me 23:12, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

> What he is trying to add should go in the influences section

Indeed, even funny editors have good ideas sometimes. I complied, and, to add icing to the cake, added {{Refimprovesect}} to the "Influences" section. Presently it's just unsubstantiated name dropping. No artist at all should be named as influence, unless sources say so, particularly James himself. And no, I don't mean press blurb by guys with, say, a "weekly sports column" needing to fill some lines. Can we please stick to known experts who make a case for their assertions, wouldn't that be a good idea, too? Anyway, we're getting somewhere. --tickle me 19:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

---

"Paul Lester is a freelance music journalist who has been contributing to the Guardian for most of this century. Among other things, he writes the New Band Of The Day feature for Guardian Unlimited Music."

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/arts/author/paul_lester/profile.html

Tickleme, you realise that you are creating a lot of pointless work for other editors? You realise that the biggest claims that you have made have been demonstrated to be wrong with references?

Paul Lester wrote the following quote, and he is an experienced music journalist who interviewed Aphex Twin directly. As proven above, he did not copy this claim from Wikipedia as the Wikipedia article of 2001 was a few sentences! The following quote is more than enough evidence to support having Stockhausen in the list of influences, so please stop removing it.

Whereas most white musicians these days are born of the blues and the Beatles, Aphex Twin's lineage is Stockhausen, John Cage, Kraftwerk, Brian Eno and the Detroit techno of Derrick May. James takes in his stride the fact that he is now considered as important as these all-time electronic greats. Even having Madonna on the blower didn't faze him.

RfC on the Stockhausen/Aphex dispute

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

all editors who participated were of at least the conclusion that even if Richard James doesn't like much Stockausen bar Song of the children, he has been cited as an influence on Aphex Twin (and, as an aside, most of the time secondary sources are more desirable than primary ones) - and therefore deserves inclusion in the Influences section of the article.

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Does Stockhausen deserve mention as an influence of Aphex Twin?

• My two cents: It looks to me like Stockhausen was indeed in some way an influence on Aphex Twin. Even if RDJ doesn't like Stockhausen's music, that doesn't exclude him from being an influence. The fact that there are multiple sources claiming Stockhausen as an influence is good enough for me. Again RDJ doesn't say that Stockhausen isn't an influence, he just pokes fun at him. Heck, I could name a few sucky artists that have influenced my music. Also, I really don't think an RFC is necessary. Wickethewok (talk) 14:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

i agree that RfC mayy possibly be overkill, but i have a feeling that tickle me will not give this up without a proper and definitive consensus, so might as well cut to the chase. --Kaini (talk) 02:26, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

• Mostly I agree with Wicket. All that stuff about RDJ not liking Stockhausen's music after his first record seems to be true, but all the sources are saying is that he was influenced by Stockhausen, not that he was necessarily a fan. And heck, if RDJ has strong opinions on Stockhausen's music then it certainly would seem that way, no? - filelakeshoe 13:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
• my feelings on this matter are made very clear in the two sections preceding this one. tickle me seems to have disappeared, so i'm giving the RfC one week in case any other parties care to comment, then i'm closing it. --Kaini (talk) 00:36, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

'

Electronic music genre

Please, Electronic music is too broad to have listed as a genre. It needs to be more detailed, like whether it is IDM, ambient, etc. etc. {Tim C} 08:35, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

i'd encourage you to have a read of the talk archive. the use of the term IDM and the corresponding cat has been the source of much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the past. --Kaini (talk) 23:24, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Electronic music fits it. Richard's music is too diverse to be caged in only one sub-genre like IDM. Show me s.o. dancing to let's say "Bucephalus Bouncing Ball". Is "Come To Daddy" IDM? Or "Windowlicker"? What about "Milkman"? --Say Headcheese!--hexaChord² 19:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Aphex Twin's career is defined by his exploration of electronic music. "I.D.M" is Aphex Twin's career processed through the minds of American internet geeks and sprayed onto the internet. Aphex Twin is a British artist so the article should represent the original British interpretation of his career (electronic music) as evidenced by over 20 sources from the world's print journalism. American misconceptions as evidenced by the American fan site (www.watmm.com) and the American "IDM list", and pathetic blog sites should be removed or played down. In conclusion Aphex Twin = electronic music. Editors should defend against accidental vandalisms by ignorant American editors and fanboys who frequent the American fanboy websites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flamingpikey (talk • contribs) 11:44, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Electronic music is a precise and accurate descriptor. Time would be better spent proving the with sources the claims made in the article to stop trolls from causing disruption. Tonyfey (talk) 16:09, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Grew up in Lanner?

Is this actually sourced? I am pretty sure his family home is is in Carharrack. I've forgotten his parents' first names but pretty sure they are listed in the phone book as Carharrack. Anyway, if Lanner isn't sourced it should be removed (from here and the Lanner article) for now I think. Kernow (talk) 18:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

awards?

he probably hasn't won any grammy's but i was surprised to see no mention of awards in this otherwise comprehensive article. a section on awards and accolates might be appropriate? Roadnottaken (talk) 23:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

rare artical. where to download??

1991-XX-XX - New Music Express - Material World 1992-XX-XX - New Music Express - Doin' The Digeridoo 1992-XX-XX - Sounds Music Weekly - Double Trouble 1993-01-XX - Melody Maker 1993-03-XX - Zine - Twin Peaks - by John Pavely 1993-04-XX - Future Music - The Aphex Effect 1993-06-05 - NME - Trapezer Good 1993-09-20 - Trance Express Europe CD booklet 1993-11-27 - Melody Maker 1993-12-XX - Melody Maker's Push talks to Aphex Twin... 1993-XX-XX - Interview With Richard D. James - by Bob Gourley 1993-XX-XX - Man, Machine, Music - Paint It Red - by Tim Johnson 1993-XX-XX - Melody Maker - The Six Lives Of Richard D. James

http://forum.watmm.com/index.php?showtopic=4785

link dont working —Preceding unsigned comment added by BlackmanRaheem21 (talk • contribs) 14:34, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Last Step - a Aphex Twin Venetian Snares collab ?

Soundwise and by the look of the artwork it looks like it especially "Your'e a nice girl"(http://planet-mu.com/discography/ZIQ129) which has the Aphex Twin logo. Does anybody have some hard evidence or info ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.55.76.229 (talk) 20:16, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

firstly, that's not the aphex logo, secondly, it's pure WP:OR. last step sounds like aaron trying to ape the analogue sounds of analord. in 7/8. --Kaini (talk) 20:19, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

OK - so there is no evidence of any connection. Then just leave it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.55.76.229 (talk) 20:35, 18 January 2009 (UTC) Doesnt sound anything like aphex twin, RDJ has said he doesnt like Vsnares that much anyway. --66.158.232.98 (talk) 18:37, 21 February 2009 (UTC)