Talk:Nintendo DS homebrew

Request: A picture of the Nintendo DS after performing the Pictochat test. I would like a picture for each color. Thanks WP 10:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

gbaldr/Pictochat

This is sort of a minor detail, but I wasn't aware that this app existed. From what I can tell it can only be used with the EZ Flash 3 in 1 and does not currently support GBA emulation on the NDS itself. I'm a little confused though, as I was thinking of a seperate program that is privately held. Could anyone clarify?

And I have a picture of my DS in the process of the Pictochat test as requested, just haven't gotten the chance to upload it yet. --Rogermurdock (talk) 23:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, stock GBALDR does copy the GBA program to the EZ-Flash V 3-in-1. But I seem to remember another version that is modified to work with the cheap FireLinker brand of GBA flash cart, and because the source is out there, it'd be straightforward to modify for any GBA flash cart for which the community has the ASIC write command and the flash write command, such as Flash2Advance. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 23:20, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Flash Carts?

The DS homebrew talks about the various XMe devices (PassMe, NoPass, FlashMe, etc.) but fails to mention any devices used to store homebrew applications. Shouldn't there be some discussion about how to load homebrew apps onto your DS? As in Flash carts that you insert into the GBA slot. Here's a small list: GBAMP CF/SD, M3 Perfect CF/SD/mini-SD, G6/Lite, NEOFlash, EZ-FLash IV/Lite, and SuperCard CF/SD/mini-SD.

I recently became interested in running homebrew on a DS. My online searches revealed a large number of these Flash cart devices, and huge forum threads on them. I believe it would be helpful if this article had a pro/con section about these Flash carts. Some attributes that come to mind are Price, Compatability (with the majority of homebrew applications), and Aesthetics (the GBAMP looks pretty hilarious sticking out of a DS Lite). Help from those more experienced is greatly appreciated. --ABigSmall 21:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. WP 10:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Done. Not sure on the accuracy of Max Media Dock (I might be confusing two products), and it could use info on the Supercard/M3 variations and perhaps some pictures, but it's a start. 204.191.121.132 07:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

DS2Key and wardriving

DS2Key can be used for wardriving, but the wardriving 'app' came from the DS Wifi Lib. Shouldn't it be changed to show where it originated? --Jas2o 07:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. WP 04:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Removed section

NinjaPass removed because I don't think you can run any homebrew on it. Max Media Dock removed because I don't see how it is different from a NoPass. Please give examples if I am wrong. WP 01:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

NinjaPass	Standalone. No other card required in GBA slot. Contains FLASH for save games. Standard DS card format. Simple software.	Not necessarily supported by all homebrew software.
Max Media Dock	Easy-to-use interface. Very easy to get .nds files onto the Max Media Dock.	Hard to run commercial games on it. Sometimes does not come with a CF card, which is required to use it.

Max Media Dock is a Slot-2 device similar in functionality to a GBA Movie Player, but without a built in firmware. It is not a NoPass/PassNe type device

What about PassCard 3? It appears to be a regular DS cartridge that lets you run homebrew stuff (stored in GBA slot).

Is it different from a NoPass? Same thing different name? WP 06:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I think so. It appears to be the size of a regular cartridge, unlike NoPass which sticks out. Link: www.gamersection.ca/product_info.php?products_id=223 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.111.229.61 (talk • contribs) .

A NoPass is the size of a regular cartridge. A PassCard3 is a brand of NoPass. WP 01:08, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Did some cleaning

Cleaned up and sorted Notable Homebrew; removed the cleanup tag which was dated November 2006 in case someone wants to add it again. Commented out HelloDS as I don't think it's ever going to come out and there's no sense listing vaporware. 204.191.121.132 07:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Slot One carts?

I'm wondering if any info should be added on slot one DS carts like the DS-X, whose site promises compatibility on 'most' homebrew. --Thaddius 02:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you should remove all those sub-headings and just have one sub heading, under which could be some text like "Not many Slot-1 media launchers have been released at this time, however some that are going to be released soon include the DS-X (suppors clean ROMs and has good compatibility), the AceKard (may not be released outside China, reads from MicroSD cards) and so on... 19:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

2nd generation homebrew comptability?

1st generation devices are generally cheaper; while 2nd generation devices are easier to use. Most 1st generation devices support GBA homebrew, but no 2nd generation device supports it. Homebrew compatibility is usually better on the 1st generation.

I think there may be some confusion here. I'm assuming 2nd gen refers to SLOT-1 devices while 1st gen refers to SLOT-2 devices. If that is the case then the above statement is dubious. Not all homebrew runs well ont 2nd generation (SLOT-1) devices and, in fact, most homebrew is developed first and foremost with 1st (SLOT-2) generation devices in mind. Given the various problem reports with regards to running various homebrew on various SLOT-1 devices I would then say that the quoted statement needs to be amended...

OOPMan : 196.209.27.50 09:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

This needs cleanup. The article name is poorly picked, and it basically gives a brief description and then lists all the homebrew titles. Something needs to be done! TheListUpdater 17:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The article name doesn't seem poorly picked to me. Would "Unofficial applications and games for the Nintendo DS" be a better title? "Nintendo DS homebrew" is concise and basically states what the article is about.

I do agree with you on the large list of homebrew titles. Perhaps that list should be moved to another article? ABigSmall 06:36, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

!

My SD Card foes into my supercard GBA thing, but I still can run DS games off it, by putting a thing called a superkey into the DS port! RealG187 22:02, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

What does this have to do with homwbrew? This is not a message forum. Nicatron (talk) 22:22, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Help

The previous person who edited this page vandalised it. could someone please protect the page with the edit thingy? thanks Songjin 12:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

You could just undo the vandalism when you find it. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 12:47, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup

It seems like this page is rather active but it appears to be that the article on storage devices is being neglected to a certain degree. Could someone please help to update the article on DS storage devices? Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Songjin (talk • contribs).

Indeed. All external links should be moved to Dmoz and this article should only have wikilinks to homebrew articles (which may be very few, because most are non notable). -- ReyBrujo 15:09, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

R4 plus GBA

As is stated on R4's site, although the SNK-glish may have been mis-interpreted by me, the latest version of their card's software can run GBA games. Can someone test this? --71.220.18.9 11:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Probably just means that it can put the hardware into GBA mode and launch a GBA Game Pak without having to remove the R4 card. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 12:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it acts as a Nopass device when needed. Nicatron (talk) 22:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

The history of DS homebrew

We need to turn this article in more of a history lesson then a binary catalog.

202.6.132.67 09:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Another port : DScent

• DScent Descent Port for Nintendo DS

could please somebody add? 84.173.199.153 13:39, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Idea for Impact of homebrew on sales of DS

There are over 43 million DS and DS Lites sold worldwide, but how many of those users actually use flash carts? Maybe 10,000? That said, it will have a very little impact on sales. However, Nintendo is aware of this(obvious?) and has been updating their security. Personal research(as well as other people's observations): Phantom Hourglass(JPN) does not work on any versions of the R4 until the 1.10 kernel, which was made the day the rom was leaked.209.91.61.223 07:50, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Homebrew is the development of original software by hobbyists and other developers too small to land a Nintendo license. Running Phantom Hourglass on an R4 is not homebrew; it's piracy and belongs in a separate article. Of course Nintendo updates the Nitro SDK's libraries to break use of piracy tools with new titles. However, only once in the life of the DS (fall 2005) has a change in firmware affected homebrew. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 13:10, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Then why is storage devices connected to this article since piracy is often contiguous with homebrew?209.91.61.223 01:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup (again)

This article is now locked because some anons insist on the large list of links being in this article. I don't know of any reason why this article has an exception to break several wikipolicies. The most prevalent policy being WP:NOT, which states, not only is Wikipedia not a repository or links, it is not a software directory, nor is it a guide book. This article already pushes the notability guidelines, of which the spin off articles of this article already fail and will soon be merged or deleted. Inputs, comments? Let's settle this so the page can be unlocked and there will be a consensus. SpigotMap 17:40, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

OK then, if no one wants to make a consensus, I guess the article will stay locked forever. SpigotMap 20:07, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Or it could go to AfD, since no notability is asserted in the article, other then little hacking fansites and such. The article has already been deleted at least once. SpigotMap 20:09, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Is this notable enough? http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7886&Itemid=2 82.23.55.86 11:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Link to information/guides - dont link to downloads. simple really. If there is a site which is linked to that actually has relevant information as well as downloads, then fine.Sennen goroshi 09:01, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

No, the article is for information, not links. Wikipedia is NOT a software directory nor is it a collection of links in any form. Besides, how many "official" links are in this article? Looks to me to be a collection of fansites. SpigotMap 09:22, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

There are a few too many links here, but asking for "official" links for a homebrew community seems a bit strange. "Fansites" are just the nature of this community really. 82.41.255.251 09:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

If the "community" has nothing but fansites and nothing that qualifies as reliable sources, then it isn't notable enough for wikipedia. SpigotMap 09:36, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I Disagree Strongly, Spigotmap. Although homebrew development is, for the most part, an underground hobby, It is large enough to warrant an article. I do think it is true that their are too many links, but I think that some of the links that point directly to the sites of devTeams are relevant. I also think a few links pointing to hardware and devkit tutorials are useful . People come to wikipedia as a jumping-off point to start learning a subject. Knightowl 70.238.3.22 18:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. What we need is a balance between what's currently present and what's on the to-do list, as well as some trimming of the links. I think that would be great.--Sean.ridgeley 05:02, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

There aren't any "official" website on homebrew. And it will never happend. That's not a reason to don't define theses sites as "not reliable". There are many articles on Wikipedia which don't rely on famous newspapers! There are too many links on this page (only this link would be enough ), but SpigotMap, if you wait for information on TV about NDS homebrew, you can ask now the deletion of this article... Maybe you should ask yourself what Wikipedia really is : things only available on important websites, or knowledge shared by "minor" websites? Jidoo 21:55, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

"Games development" is not underground, however "homebrew" is a term for games development targeting less accessible embedded systems. "Homebrew" is as much of a hobby as general windows game programming, and for anyone who wishes to work with embedded systems will gain an experience advantage in having worked on them. Like I said in my other response, the article can be reduced to simply state what homebrew "games" development is and provide one or two external links. Ah, I've got it: Datel's main distributor is codejunkies (verifiable from their own site). Datel is notable, as they produce the leading action replay cartridge, etc. Code junkies refers to homebrew with their max media launcher for game cube( http://uk.codejunkies.com/news_reviews.asp?c=GB&cr=GBP&cs=%A3&r=1&l=1&i=9063&p=23&s=8 ) and DS ( http://us.codejunkies.com/shop/product.asp?c=GB&cr=GBP&cs=%A3&r=1&l=1&ProdID=321 ). Also Sony has provided support for homebrew (i.e. non commercial development on a closed proprietary system) with PS2 linux, meaning homebrew development is acknowledged by them. CNET also has an article on homebrew development - for the Atari, but states homebrew ( http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11261_7-6298931-1.html ). And one more from CVG ( http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=172236 ) - ( http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=168234 )82.23.55.86 08:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Information that does not comply with WP:VERIFY and WP:RS and can not be made to do so will be deleted. Simple as that. It is policy and will be followed. If something does not have coverage outside of fansites, it isn't very much notable. SpigotMap 00:35, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Please explain why you insist on refering to websites about a particular hobby as "Fansites". Whether the hobby is notable or not you're showing serious POV just by refering to them like that. APL 03:37, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

In terms of reliable sources, what sources are not reliable enough to back up the claims of the said statements? "Homebrew development" is a branch of games development, so rather than remove the article, change it to reflect its angle in relation to games development. This could turn the article into a few paragraphs outlining the process, and its differences to typical PC games development. My suggestion would be the following:

- One link to a non-Wikipedia wiki to hold all other information, such as history and the like. This will allow the Wikipedia article to focus on the topic at hand: "what is Nintendo DS homebrew"

- Refer to "Gbadev" (or some other DS dev site) as a named source of opinion for opinions such as what is a typical environment - or some other entity.

- State that "homebrew Nintendo DS development" is software development targeting the Nintendo DS. State the typical development process involving a makefile, and (a) the use of hardware emulation and (b) DS storage devices to run the software, and that the emulators are not 100% accurate (citing the actual emulators as the source for their own inadequacies)

- Aim for this article to state what is development and not to be a tutorial. Although Wikipedia does hold a lot of information that can be used to introduce concepts to people the article should only state the minimum required information. The problem with the article is that it is currently telling the reader everything they could possibly know about homebrew, so solve that problem rather than delete the entire article.

- Another approach to attain notable sources is to create a verbose article detailing the verifiable technologies involved in homebrew development, such as "GNU compilation tool chains", SD-Card technology and electronic journals on reading from them, encryption articles to describe the methods used, and the existence of flash card readers to prove it has been engineered. 82.23.55.86 08:50, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

This article is esoteric in nature. It is about a practice that is not known by the mass population. I dont think it is fair to call some of these sites "fansites", Would you consider a site such as ign.com a fansite. What about dcemu.co.uk. Its scope is even more limited. I think that the only diffrence is that the former is for-profit. The latter, however, provides news about the homebrew comunity. People within the comunity TRUST it as a news source.66.188.247.191 19:29, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protection

Would a semi-protection be more appropriate in this case? Fully protecting the page is a bit hardcore, as no-one can edit it. Even the George W. Bush page is only semi-protected. --Sébastien Leblanc ^(Talk|Mail) 20:53, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

There was an edit war, even though this is not really a content war, it's outright inappropriate amount of links and guide information. This is why it's fully protected. SpigotMap 02:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Software Piracy!?

Since when does the fact that xxxx requires hardware yyyyy and that yyyyy ****CAN**** be used for piracy mean that xxxxx is of "dubious status" and not necessarily a good thing? Back in the days of CD-ROM, a cd-rewritable drive was really cool technology, and if you bought a program that used a CD-Writer, no one said it was "dubious" just because the fact that it requires a CD-Writer, and that a CD-Writer *can* be used for piracy!

IMHO this is innappropriate guilt by association. Computer Guru 16:38, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it's pretty overboard. To put it another way - listening to a cassette tape requires a cassette player, which can be used to make illegal copies of albums you don't own. Making a movie requires a movie camera, which can be used to spy on your neighbor as he/she/it undresses. While these controversies can be addressed in the article, the current method - like so much of video game "journalism" - is heavy-handed, unsubtle, and positively leaden. --Badger Drink 04:52, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the offending sentence. In fact, neither piracy nor homebrew are dubious - homebrew is clearly legal, and piracy is clearly not. ray (talk) 07:13, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree that "homebrew is clearly legal" in every developed country. The United States has Sega v. Accolade, but other countries' case law may go the other way, allowing trademarks or copyrights to be used against interoperability. Does this look like a job for {{globalize}}? --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 15:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I have changed the wording slightly to 'retains a dubious status' as opposed to the former 'enjoys a dubious status', as it better fits the idea behind homebrew vs. piracy. Akoi Meexx (talk) 15:59, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Could someone investigate this; The hardware detects whether or not Nintendo's Logo is present in all games ROM. This is to allow it to function on the DS. Without it the hardware fails. This would imply that the developers would have to have a copy of Nintendo's Logo in their Homebrew game ROM. If this turns out to be true then Homebrew developers are themselves breaking the law by illegally copying the TM/logo which Nintendo never licensed to them. So, in effect, these game ROMs are illegal no matter how far down the chain you are. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.123.214.65 (talk) 17:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

dedenting:

The logo data is a magic cookie that carries no expressive value other than "this program is allowed to run". <USA> In 1992, Sega sued Accolade over copying a similar magic cookie into Accolade's games compatible with the Sega Genesis. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit agreed with Accolade's defense that such copying is a fair use of the magic cookie data. Two post-DMCA cases, Chamberlain v. Skylink and Lexmark v. Static Control, support this line of reasoning. </USA> But I agree that investigations based on other countries' laws would be worthwhile. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 17:48, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Get real - does anyone really think people are using these cards to play homebrew crap? Duh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.88.255 (talk) 21:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

No, people mostly play the good stuff and leave the crap alone.Col 012 15:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Homebrew crap? Not after one or two runs, after which they get deleted to make room for homebrew quality games. I have evidence that people are playing and enjoying homebrew games for NES, GBA, and DS. But it's spread across at least four web forums and some games' online high-score lists, which aren't reliable sources, so I can't use them in an article. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 17:48, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I would just like to point out that in the to-do list where it says, "Explain the legal side of homebrew on the DS," ALL OF DS HOMEBREW IS LEGAL. The only illegal thing is using homebrew DEVICES for piracy. Many other people and I do not use our DS's for piracy, and I am astonished at the bickering and disgusting whining about this article. It is wholly reasonable to have a list of homebrew programs and what they do, and it just so happens that it is most convenient to link them to their project sites. If you have a problem with lists, then why don't you go delete the whole portal to "Lists of topics?" If you have a problem with links, then they can be left/taken out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.96.218.252 (talk) 18:03, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Lists of homebrew projects/applications are not notable content, this article covers Homebrew, not Homebrew applications. If you want you can start seperate articles for them and let the community decide if they pass WP:NOTABLE. SpigotMap 18:05, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Too many outside links

Wiki is NOT a directory. That section is nothing more than a collection of links to other websites describing methods to mod a DS. KyuuA4 16:57, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, am I wrong in thinking that the focus of this article should be more about the tools (hardware and software) used to create homebrew, and most importantly, what makes homebrew on the DS a new and diferent hobby compared to homebrew on diferent platforms? (The Wifi, the dual CPU, dual screen architecture, touchscreen, whatever.) And perhaps the small number libraries that have become 'standards' in the homebrew community.

For comparison PlayStation_Portable_homebrew only lists four items under "Notable Homebrew" and has a paragraph of prose explaining what's notable about each of them. It seems like this sort of quality over quantity approuch would be a big improvement in this article. APL 03:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

PlayStation_Portable_homebrew needs massive cleanup too. The PSP Homebrew article is written as a guide and update section while this article is written as a directory. SpigotMap 15:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

THE LACK OF SCREENSHOTS IS DISTURBING!

Screenshot of DSOrganize? or something? please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.212.176.2 (talk) 17:54, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I will try to find some. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicatron (talk • contribs) 22:14, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

copyvio of http://dshb.50webs.com/pages/hb.htm

{{editprotected}} The entire "Notable homebrew" section is a mass copy-paste of http://dshb.50webs.com/pages/hb.htm

I suspect that Gabe Cook (the author of the dshb page) is also editing this article - but the page makes the following copyright claim: © Copyright 2007 Gabe Cook. Designed by TemplateYes and is hence unsuitable for Wikipedia at this point in time. --Badger Drink 04:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

 Not done Looking at that website you cited, they appear to use MediaWiki-like formatting for their contents section, headings and links so I suspect that they might have in fact copied Wikipedia content. In any case, I will not be editing that section, since the current disputes regarding its content are the reason the page is currently protected. Tra (Talk) 00:27, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Emulation section?

What happened to this section? It was half the reason I visited this page so much.Sean.ridgeley (talk) 16:30, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

The massive links section, including the emulation links have been removed in compliance with WP:NOT#LINK. This page is not here to host a large list of links, try a fansite dedicated to homebrew. SpigotMap 18:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Okay, but I still think some information on emulators would be essential..--Sean.ridgeley (talk) 01:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

That is cool, it would useful to the article. The only stipulation is it must be properly sourced with reliable sources per WP:RS. SpigotMap 01:47, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Those links...

... are not to homebrew sites, but to pirate rom downloading sites. Could someone replace them with proper links. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.114.134.156 (talk) 21:18, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out, many of the sites looked legit until you dug in to them. One of them had roms on the front page. Anyways, I removed them, so if you know of any legit sites, please do share. SpigotMap 12:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

If you dig deep enough, you can find copyright infringement on English Wikipedia itself. So what specific infringing work did you find on gbadev.org? Was it infringing in the warez sense, or merely infringing in the dojin soft sense? I am a moderator there, and I take reports of infringement seriously. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 17:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I will check the site and tell you soon. Nicatron (talk) 03:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Here's a fishing tip to keep in mind: Pocket Heaven and gbadev.org are decidedly not the same web site, despite that both use the default subSilver skin for phpBB. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 13:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I couldn't find anything wrong with this site. It may have had content before but I can't find any know. Nicatron (talk) 22:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I found odd stuff on gbadev.org like a half-life demo that ran inside a DOS subsystem. (I got a BSOD when I ran the game but the BSOD happened on my emulator.) It also contained a sort of doom mod image engine (Jespa3D). I am not sure weather it should stay. Any thoughts? Nicatron (talk) 17:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Here is a screenshot of halflife GBA in a visualboy emulator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Halflifecrash.jpg Nicatron (talk) 17:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

The Half-Life one is probably just jokeware, like the early fake Xbox emulators. If you can give me the URL of where you found it on gbadev.org, I will look into it and report it to the site administrators if needed. If you feel the discussion is not appropriate for a Wikipedia talk page, feel free to take it private with me: register on forum.gbadev.org and send a private message to tepples . --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 19:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, Wikipedia has deleted the image. I believe that it must have been JokeWare. L8r Nicatron (talk) 03:22, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Half life was joke-ware, I remember it; it pretended to load the game and went straight into the "blue screen of doom" as soon as a button is pressed. Jespa3D is a complete engine written from the ground up, not using anything from any other engine! 86.1.108.113 (talk) 09:16, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

okay, okay!!b Nicatron (talk) 02:25, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

LEGALITIES

I was wondering about a legalities section. I think this would greatly help newer homebrewers know the legal side of this "art" Nicatron (talk) 16:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Disappointing Link Deletion

I found the list of links for various homebrew applications to be very useful, and I was quite disappointed when I saw they were all deleted. I took it upon myself to add all of those valueable links back in, and I really think they should stay. I'm sorry if I lost any updates that had been made since Friday. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RipHedgestone (talk • contribs) 15:15, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I took a large chunk of it out again. This list apparently came from here : [1] APL (talk) 16:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Uhhh... two emulator sections?

Has anyone noticed that there are two emulator sections on this wiki? I would fix it, but I don't know which one is more current

Kyo765 (talk) 14:58, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Removed Piracy warnings.

I removed this from the article's source :

<!-- To avoid getting Wikipedia in trouble, do not list devices whose
manufacturer's web site distributes pirated commercial games. -->

I can find no Wikipedia policy that indicates that this should be done. I'm not aware of any warnings from the Foundation's lawyers warning against mentioning products sold by people who also sell pirated material. WP:COPYRIGHT Makes no mention of links, let alone mere mentions. refers only to direct links to copyrighted material. We are still fine mentioning the product. Therefore, since WP:Perennial proposals#Legal issues says that we should not pretend to be lawyers, and WP:CENSOR says that we should not self censor, I have removed these warnings and would like to know what products have been excluded by this bogus 'warning' so that we can add them to the list for the sake of completeness and accuracy. APL (talk) 00:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

When I added that warning, I had the "UltraFlashPass" specifically in mind. UltraFlashPass is an N-Card clone, no more notable than any other N-Card clone. The official site for UltraFlashPass, ndsgba.net, has a prominent link to "NDSGBAROMS", a forum containing the pirated goods themselves. Even the relatively pirate-friendly forum Pocket Heaven doesn't let people link to ndsgba.net. But given that we tend to tolerate links to YouTube, I don't think we need that warning anymore. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 11:34, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

PassMe section lacking + Trojan

I was confused to see that the PassMe section has been shunted to the bottom a pegged as an 'other' option. I understand that the methods mentioned are prominent for the sake of ease of use, but shouldn't the PassMe method be highlighted a little more for the sake of history?

Also for the sake of historical record, I'm wondering why there's no mention of Dark Fader's Trojan. the article mentions that the FlashMe method can protect against a trojan, but not DF's specifically. --Thaddius (talk) 15:44, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

FlashMe protects against any trojan that works by wiping the unprotected part of the firmware, such as DF's, because FlashMe contains a failsafe bootstrap in the first 64 KiB, which is write-protected on all DS models. Is there even a reliable source that mentions DF's trojan? --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 14:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I know how and why FlashMe protects against trojans, but my point was that DF's was the only (first?) one that was widespread, therefore the most notable. I was just wondering why the article says FlashMe protects against trojans, but doesn't mention its relation to DF's trojan (as it was seemingly designed to encourage people to use FlashMe). As for a reliable source, DF himself mentions it on his site (under Malware), and there are quite a few websites that reported DF's public apology. A quick google search could find more if needed. --Thaddius (talk) 12:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Dubious statement in Storage devices

There's a (slow) edit war going on over the storage devices section. The text in question is as follows:

These have a dubious status since the rewritable cartridges required to run homebrew software could potentially also be used for software piracy.

An IP user removed it, writing in an edit summary:

They're not at all dubious. There's a legal precedent in the US that any device which has a substantial non-infringing use is legal, whether or not it has illegal uses.

APL (talk · contribs) re-added it, writing in an edit summary:

They are dubious because, if nothing else, most contain copy-protection circumvention technology, Which is outlawed by the DMCA. (Sorry, Can't find specific enough cite right at the moment.)

As for running programs made with devkitARM, I can see how Chamberlain v. Skylink and Lexmark Int'l v. Static Control Components might moderate the effect of the DMCA. If the issue is that the cards also have specific mechanisms for running Game Card dumps by patching the NitroSDK libraries, the "could potentially" wording doesn't appear to support that. Let's discuss the issue further before adding this text again. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 14:34, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps stuff should be added to indicate current drama going on with Nintendo and the retailers of R4 cards in Japan. Also, early home brew required modified versions of the DS firmware, which had to be distributed illegally if it was to be distributed at all.

The article hints at this in a couple of places, but it should probably be spelled out that Nintendo makes no allowance for homebrew and that running it necessarily involves bypassing the hardware copy-protection features of the DS. APL (talk) 23:23, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

ndsuniverse.com

Anonymous users in two IPv4 address ranges have been adding links to a web site, ndsuniverse.com, which appears to host infringing copies of commercial Nintendo DS games. This appears to violate policy. Some recent diffs in chronological order: [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] What should be done about this? Should I take it to User talk:XLinkBot/RevertList or even MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist? --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 23:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Considering the many placements of the URL, and this talk page's continued discussion of it, it seems that the person's intention has succeeded in getting the URL spammed in Wikipedia's data. I rather doubt that making a large discussed deal about it is doing anything to help stop advertising the site. If the facilitation is not in the article, then in the talk page. If not in the talk page, then in the edit history, or in this talk page's edit history. To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder what's more important for Wikipedia—preventing feared copyright infringement or preventing censorship. Granted, in a case like this, it's essentially a spammed site whose long-term lifespan will probably not be very long. But this has raised awareness of a hypothetical situation that could arise (not actually relevant to this particular case, but I could see it possibly arising in the future). What if the site were, for example, hosted in a country where copyrights in the U.S., Japan, etc. are not recognized or enforced? Since the content is not actually on Wikipedia but in an external link, it's difficult to imagine that Wikipedia would prefer censoring a link to relevant content (homebrew in this case), whether or not it also contains copyrighted content (commercial files). As Wikipedia is not censored and is responsible for its own issues of copyright, need it be concerned with the copyright issues of other sites? Wikipedia does not and cannot police the whole Internet, nor really should it. But all that said, this is most definitely my own POV. - Gilgamesh (talk) 06:46, 21 September 2008 (UTC) I just read the policy. Makes some sense in principle. - Gilgamesh (talk) 06:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Edit histories are not picked up by search engines, nor do mirrors necessarily copy the talk archives. I've already reported this to XLinkBot and am waiting on a reply. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 11:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

XLinkBot's keeper has done nothing. I'm asking for semi-protection. --Damian Yerrick (talk | stalk) 20:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Firmware version checking

I currently own a DS phat (the original one) which displays the magenta screen after doing the PictoChat test (I found out the test long ago myself, but didn't know which version corresponded to what). The only thing is that my DS is not pink, but silver. All phat DSes manufactured starting from about 2 months after the first Lite, SHOULD be running this firmware version, regardless of their shell color. Can someone confirm this (I don't think one person saying this is enough) and if necessary, update the page? 83.160.172.189 (talk) 16:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)