Talk:Devil's advocate

I would rather not translate advocatus diaboli into "Devil's Lawyer". I think it's better left as "Devil's Advocate" because in this case advocate derives from the original latin meaning of to speak for someone (as the english word advocacy does)

Etymology isn't meaning.75.11.191.119 (talk) 05:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

What does "since then" mean?

This page is vague about the chronology. During what time period was the title of Defensor Fidei used? Until the Second Vatican Council? Or until some time in the late medieval period? Or what? The second paragraph begins with the words "since then", as if some period of time had been specified. But it has not. Can someone clear this up? Michael Hardy 17:39, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

We hardly need the phrase, so I've removed it. But we do still need to get the date of when this stopped! (Probably Vatican II, but that's just an educated guess on my part.) -- Toby Bartels 16:33, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Well, the 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia speaks of it in the present tense, so that's some clue. -- Toby Bartels 16:34, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Also, the term Fidei Defensor was commonly used int he representation of Queen Elizabeth of England, Ireland, and France. It was represented along with her coat of arms, sot hat gives some sort of starting date, but I'm sure it goes way back before then. -- Zeerus 9:55, 2 Feb, 2005

See Fidei defensor. Awarded to Henry VIII by Pope Leo X and revoked by Pope Paul III and then awarded to Henry VIII by the English Parliament Kevin Wykes 28 June 2005 12:54 (UTC)

"Such a dramatic increase suggests that the office of the Devil's Advocate had served to reduce the number of canonizations by complicating the process." - It suggests no such thing, unless you take the POV that there should be lots more saints, and the DA was a hinderance. It's kinda like taking away the role of the defense attorney and saying that the increase in convictions showed that the defense attorney role was a mere 'complication.'

Angel's advocate - merge?

I've never heard the phrase "angel's advocate" before, but it did seem to turn up a respectable amount of Google hits. But at its current stub form, I think it's worth merging in here instead of leaving it as a separate article, since it would seem to have evolved directly from "devil's advocate" and seems to be less commonly used. BryanG^(talk) 23:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It's the polar opposite, I don't think a merge is appropriate, especially given the multiple contexts of this term. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, looking at it again, I disagree with myself! Never mind, then... BryanG^(talk) 07:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Pope Sixtus V

Pope Sixtus V was pope during 1587 when this post was created so does that mean that that we can credit him with creating it? --Kick the cat 12:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Rhetorics

if you only use your opponents dumbest arguments, to "discredit" his position as redicolous or troll-like, is there a special name for this technic? -- 172.176.152.162 11:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

If I understand your question correctly, it seems like you're referring to Straw man argumentation, albeit a specific form thereof. shidobu 02:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Is this even English?

"This practice is generally an instructional technique in which one person argues a position that another is less familiar with, thereby teaching proper argument." Please fix, thanks. 205.228.74.12 08:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Steven Colbert

What about its use in comedy such as Steven Colbert's Colbert Report. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abaac (talk • contribs) 22:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Cuban Missile Crisis brought this term into current usage

My understanding of this term is that it was brought into modern usage by the interaction of Kennedy and his staff.

The historical meaning related to religion is certainly not in the current mindset.

Can anyone expound on this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael.Urban (talk • contribs) 17:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Promotor Fidei = Advocatus Diaboli

Foofighter20x changed this page in February to say that Promotor Fidei and Advocatus Diaboli were opposites, i.e. that the Promotor Fidei was "God's advocate". This seems to be false, so I put back a clearer version of what was there before and added a reference to the Catholic Encyclopedia. Colin Watson (talk) 01:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

But if they're not opposites then they are the same? It seems to me that the Postulator has the role of the Prosecutor, trying to prove that the candidate is "guilty" of being saintly, so the Promotor Fidei plays the Defense, trying to show reasonable doubts about it. If this is so, then the role of "Devil's advocate" is still in place. Does it make sense? Prudencio Clemente (talk) 01:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Christopher Hitchens

I think if the mention of Christopher Hitchens is kept, a neutral 3rd party source is required. --Rob (talk) 02:50, 2 August 2008 (UTC)