Talk:White Americans

moving this section from White people to this article

Can someone please find an appropriate place to add this content to this article? I am moving it from the [[[White people]] article because it is more related to this article.

Relations with black people

The one drop rule — that a person with any trace of non-white ancestry (however small or invisible) cannot be considered white — is unique to the United States. The one drop rule created a bifurcated system of either black or white regardless of a person's physical appearance. This contrasts with the more flexible social structures present in Latin America, where there are no clear-cut divisions between various ethnicities.

As a result of centuries of having children with white people, the majority of African Americans have white admixture, and many White people also have African ancestry. Some have suggested that the majority of the descendants of African slaves are white. According to recent studies, white Americans rank non-Americans as socially closer to them than fellow Americans who are black. Writer and editor Debra Dickerson questions the legitimacy of the one drop rule, stating that "easily one-third of blacks have white DNA". She argues that in ignoring their white ancestry, African Americans are denying their fully articulated multi-racial identities. The peculiarity of the one drop rule may be illustrated by the case of singer Mariah Carey, who was publicly called "another white girl trying to sing black", but in an interview with Larry King, responded that—despite her physical appearance and the fact that she was raised primarily by her white mother—due to the one drop rule she did not "feel white."

Infobox

The images are a mess. They're nearly all of politicians and entertainers, and the image alignment is quite bad. I'd like to diversify it, removing most of these people in the process. But as I'm not a regular here, I request comments from anyone who objects to my plan. SamEV (talk) 05:37, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes i agree to much spirit of 76 and dead presidents ,i had added dina powell (1) because there was a lack of women (2) everybody was all european or mainly european descent and she is of North African descent Coptic Egyptian to be exact (3) i dont think she is a politcian and i also agree with the image alignment.--Wikiscribe (talk) 05:49, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Gender, that's another factor where it's unbalanced.

Powell works for a corporation now, but before that she worked for government figures and govt departments. Still, she does bring geographic diversity, so she'd be one of maybe two or three politicians I would keep. SamEV (talk) 06:16, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

NPOV Tag

Well I had an issue with the "Income and educational attainment" section. Here is a quote...

"Some argue that because white Americans have faced the least discrimination of any racial or ethnic group, they have had time to build up wealth, and that this is a major contributor to economic inequities among races today."

"Some argue" are weasel words, and should be avoided. And how have white Americans be faced with the least discrimination of any racial or ethnic group? Shouldn't that be Indian (from India)? America has Affirmative Action, which does discriminate against whites. This should be taken out for NPOV reasons. Ryan1159 (talk) 04:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you about the weasel words, but I don't understand the rest of what you wrote. Can you name a group that has faced less discrimination in the United States than white people? You don't think Indians have faced ethnic discrimination? — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 05:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, in fact, I can. Indians, for one. Sure, they have faced discrimination, but every race has in the past. Native Hawaiians also don't face discrimination. But the only ethnic group in America that is facing discrimination right now IS white people with Affirmative Action! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan1159 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Merged with "European-American"

This article should be retitled to "European American" because the "black American". "Black American" got merged with "African American" so the same should be done to "White American". Ryan1159 (talk) 05:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

According to the first sentence, "White American ... is an umbrella term officially employed ... for the classification of American citizens or resident aliens 'having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa'." Since the Middle East and North Africa aren't part of Europe, it would be a mistake to merge this article with European American. European Americans are white Americans, but not all white Americans are European Americans. — [[::User:Malik Shabazz|Malik Shabazz]] ([[::User talk:Malik Shabazz|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Malik Shabazz|contribs]]) 05:34, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree, but not all blacks are African. There are Jamaicans, etc. And they included that in the African-American article, read it. So I still think it needs to be merged.

Ryan1159 (talk) 06:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

No merge. Ryan, you should consider the possibility that merging "Black American" and "African American" was wrong to begin with, not something to emulate here. SamEV (talk) 00:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I guess I agree. I should post something in the African-American discussion about that.

Ryan1159 (talk) 17:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Are white Americans really a majority?

I know that according to statistics they are, but I have crossed the country from East to West by car and one of my greatest surprises was that most people that I saw did not look white at all. I have been quite surprised since then, because I also thought that whites were much more numerous. Otto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.35.77.238 (talk) 22:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Interesting. The cities certainly are mostly non-white; highways probably took you through them. Most Whites live in the suburbs. But then again, your idea of who 'looks' white would probably figure into it, as well. For instance, half of Hispanics/Latinos are white (by the same self-designation criterion as non-Hispanic Whites, and everyone else). So unless you counted half of those you met, and knew to be H/L, as White... See? And, of course, it also depends on which regions of the country you traversed. The southern half of the U.S. is the least White: the eastern half of it being heavily African American, and the western being heavily Hispanic or Latino (half of them non-White, again). SamEV (talk) 03:44, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

By white I mean that, people from Europe, even many people from the Middle East and North Africa look white to me, but not most people I came across in the US. Anyway it was my personal experience. Otto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.35.77.238 (talk) 16:11, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Hope you had fun. SamEV (talk) 03:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

There are official census figures for this, some people travel by air and stay at home, so you may not see them, get real.Heardlarge2 (talk) 17:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

First White American first?

Should there be a list similar to first afircan american first? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ElChino855 (talk • contribs) 02:24, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Few women represented

As usual, there are very few women represented in the intro box. Surely, more females can be added to give an even balance of the sexes?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:30, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Why not add these entertainers (Evelyn Nesbit, Madonna, Lucille Ball, Bette Davis); a politician (Hillary Clinton) or one of the First Ladies (Elizabeth Kortright Monroe) to the list.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:19, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Bette Midler

Seriously? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.179.67 (talk) 08:46, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree that someone more notable than Bette Midler should be used in the intro box. Sharon Stone, Madonna, Hillary Clinton, Lucille Ball, Bette Davis, Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:43, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

i could agree with that also--Wikiscribe (talk) 15:23, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Then why don't we change it?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

I dunno. Bette Midler is a well-known actress for people my age (and a very good one, but that's MHO only). What's wrong with her?--Ramdrake (talk) 15:53, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Nothing is wrong with her. I personally like her and find her to be funny. I just feel that for the intro box there should be somebody who has more international recognition such as Madonna or Jacqueline Kennedy. Not many people outside of the USA would instantly recognise Midler, whereas the ones I mentioned are known throughout the world.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:02, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

The majority of Americans may be non white indeed.

I agree with the comments a few lines above. In fact if Non Hispanics are taken into account, even according to the census, only 64% of Americans are white. Of course there are Hispanics that are white, but in the US the vast majority are not. In fact 2/3 are Mexican. The Mexicans who emigrate to the US do not belong to the 9/10% white elite of the country, who are all pretty well off if not rich. They are overwhelmingly Amerindian or Mestizo, who are in fact economically and socially oppressed in Mexico by the white minority ruling class. Indeed Amerindians and Mestizos represent about 90% of the Mexican population and probably more than 99% of those who emigrate to the US. The same could be said of other US Hispanics. On the other hand, there is also a percentage of people who identify with one race being actually mixed. For example, genetic studies show that an important percentage of people who identify as white have different degrees of non white ancestry. In conclusion, if we use the definitions of whiteness that have been in use in the US for decades, the present population of the country maybe well non white in the majority, even though the census figures try to make up these numbers a bit, the same as the media and Hollywood. So, I agree with the subjective opinions expressed above because they derive from an objective situation. On the other hand, this is especially true in cities. These facts should be introduced somehow in the article, otherwise it does not look objective. To finish, and as an example of the real worth of all these figures based on self identification, the fqact is that mosty people in the US are actually mixed. Those who identify as black have an average of 20% European ancestry, according to genetic studies, most Hispanics are also mixed, many whites are also mixed. In fact, the mixed category may be actually the largest in the country, but if you have a look at the census figures, the mixed category is actually one of the smallest. Aaron. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.55.202.254 (talk) 08:08, 21 March 2009 (UTC)