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LeveL (webcomic)

Non notable obscure webcomic, found here, it's 40 member forum can be found here. Looking through one of their sparse forum threads, I know plenty of effort has been put into this, but I just don't think that the website is notable enough for wikipedia. Can I introduce you guys to comixPedia? Where every webcomic under the sun can get their article there? - Hahnchen 23:46, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails WP:WEB and WP:COMIC. Saberwyn 00:49, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Withdraw delete vote. This is NOT the webcomic I thought it was. Saberwyn 04:48, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Nifboy 02:27, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki to Comixpedia, the place for most of these unknown webcomics jnothman ^talk 02:31, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, the archive appears reasonably extensive [1] and I see no evidence presented above by the delete votes. When you say an article fails such and such a guideline, please explain how to verify this assertion. Bryan 04:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Alexa rank of 2 million (very bad), and longevity criteria are being left out of the new guidelines being drafted. The best I could find on Google was the artists' LJ and a link on Ponju. Nifboy 05:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  - Keep - Alexa rank really isn't the best measure of notability. Consider:
    - Pete Ashdown's US Senate campaign site has an Alexa rank of 2,530,023. Steve Urquhart's rank is 2,910,251. Nobody's suggesting deleting them -- especially if one of them actually manages to beat Orrin Hatch in next year's election (please, please, please). Orrin's site, BTW, ranks 1,490,351.
      - Those people are known for their political activity outside the internet. webcomics only have their internet presence to show. If that can't be verified through Google, Alexa or any other means, that means it doesn't have that presence. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:32, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    - On a more webcomic-related note, it appears that all Keenspace comics get a single ranking of 5,395. That means that a comic like [Saturnalia], that never had a very large reader base and that hasn't updated in a year and a half, ranks more than twice as high as Megatokyo (13,920) or User Friendly (12,251). (Nothing against Saturnalia, BTW: Space Coyote is a great artist and the story was good, too. After this long, though, it's pretty well dead.)
    - Also on webcomics, even Penny Arcade, one of the originals, only ranks 404,199.
    - Alexa does list a few other sites that link to leveL. The best I found there was Megatokyo.--12.160.33.128 15:39, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      - No, only four pages link there. MegaTokyo was in the list of sites visitors of LeveL also visit. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:43, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - The forum has 40 members. Longevity does not equal notability. There has been no press reviews/commentary. - Hahnchen 14:32, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. (Well, can also be transwikied; I have no objection to that at all, but my primary thought is that I'd like to remove this from Wikipedia.) Doesn't appear to be notable; frankly, any webcomic where a Google search for "<webcomic's name> <creator's name>" returns ~50 hits is non-notable in the grand scale of things, and possibly also in the webcomics scale of things. That said, I'm sure they'd find a very comfy home at Comixpedia. -- Captain Disdain 07:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki to Comixpedia per Jnothman and Captain Disdain. WP:NOT a place to list every Web comic ever created. FCYTravis 22:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. nn. Dragonfiend 02:33, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. See aforementioned arguments for dubiousness of Alexa. Site has roughly 600 visitors a day [2]. Notability aside from immediate popularity should also be considered. -Flare- 18:17, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Bryan and Flare. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Bryan and Flare. ♠P M C♠ 20:47, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This nominationt was closed here. It was then discussed here and here.

Do date, there are three clean deletes + nominator + one withdrawn, two transwikis, three clean keep + two with very low contributions (-Flare- (talk · contribs), 12.160.33.128 (talk · contribs)). As this is far from a clear consensus, and not even a clear "no consesus", per discussions with the closer it is being re-listed for another five days to draw wider community input. - brenneman ^(t)^(c) 23:37, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Abstain, but counsel editors to consult discussions at proposed guideline WP:WEB. - brenneman ^(t)^(c) 23:37, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki as suggested. This fails WP:WEB proposed guidelines for a webcomic as far as I can tell. 600 visits a day really isn't much.. and about consistant with the Alexa rank. Millions of sites get 600 visits a day. 40 posters to the forum... I just don't see what makes this webcomic notable. --W.marsh 23:55, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki I like to keep webcomic articles, I really do, but this is far from notable. Ashibaka (tock) 00:27, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'd like to correct the earlier assertion that the Penny Arcade webcomic has an Alexa ranking of 404,199; it's ranking is in fact 4,520[3]. Further comparing the Alexa ranking of webcomics (which are by definition read primarily on the web) to those of Senators (who relay their information through mainstream news media coverage, talk shows, etc.) is a bit of apples to oranges. My vote (above) remains delete because there is no evidence that this comic is even notable inside the webcomics community, let alone outside of it. Dragonfiend 00:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Dragonfiend's persuasive comment. Ifnord 04:44, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Pintele Yid 06:22, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- This is intended to be a discussion, so it's helpful if you provide some reasoning. For instance, are you contending that notability is not an issue, or that this webcomic is notable? Thanks. - brenneman^(t)^(c) 06:42, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment: Uhm, three points: 1. Don't bite the newbies. 2. No one has to give an reason on why they vote. 3. In fact, Wikipedia is inherently inclusionist, so you should be more likely to ask for a reason for DELETING an article rather than keeping it. -- Grev -- Talk 07:32, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If that came across as a bite, I apologise, that wasn't my intent.
It says at Wikipedia:Guide_to_Articles_for_deletion#Discussion "Always explain your reasoning," because it's not a vote.
I dont see how WP:AGF applys. Don't you assume good faith when someone wants to delete?

brenneman ^(t)^(c) 07:48, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per Captain Disdain's arguments. - Andre Engels 08:02, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Wikipedia:Web comics lists several possible criteria for webcomic notablility. This doesn't meet any of them. I'd also point out that User:12.160.33.128's understanding of the Alexa ranking system is limited. For example, Penny arcade ranks in at 4500, not 400,000. This comic ranks at 2 million, which even taking into account Alexa's margin for error, is pretty bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.238.34.168 (talk • contribs)
Neutral, long-running and extensive archive, I just can't find its audience. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:40, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as not notable. Wikipedia is not a web directory. - Dalbury (talk) 12:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As per Bryan and Flare in the first run of this. –Abe Dashiell ^(t/c) 12:55, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Fails every guideline we've ever had for "notability," and the fervor of its fans in voting is not any argument against that. For those who wish a "reason why" it shouldn't be here, even though there is no reason why it should be here, I'll simply say that encyclopedias cover that which is referred to in alien context and which needs explanation and contextualizing. This forum/comic/game is known by its fans and referred to by none else. Those who wish to know, know. Those who do not know, will not hear of it and need to know. Since Wikipedia is not a place to satisfy the fan's obsession nor a place for people to advertise, the article should be deleted. Geogre 13:22, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per Geogre. It's old, but unremarkably so. People read it, but not very many. It is, in short, an utterly and completely average webcomic, and Wikipedia is not a dumping ground for the utterly and completely average. (Of course, if Comixpedia wants it, they can have it) Lord Bob 16:43, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Geogre--Isotope23 17:09, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. nn, webcomic. Dottore So 17:42, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above; try advertising the comic more in places that accept advertising, and then come back to WP when you have the readers you deserve. — Haeleth Talk 17:50, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:CIV, please. - brenneman ^(t)^(c) 18:16, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I was the original nominator, so please don't count my vote twice. I wasn't too happy with the no-consensus of the first vote. I did not have a chance to reply to the erronomous and misleading comments above. Dragonfiend has already established that a popular webcomic like Penny Arcade has a respectable Alexa rank. The comparisons to Orrin Hatch and Pete Ashdown are totally irrelevent, these are people who have had major press attention, something which this comic lacks, even in the webcomic community. I would however, either redirect an article on Orrin Hatch's website to Orrin Hatch, or even move to delete. Just because a site links to it, does not mean it is notable. Heck, some blogs even link to my wikipedia page. This comic has no assertion of notability, a low readership and almost empty forums. Other arguments above, saying that "keep - long archive", I just don't agree with. One of my main points against the no defunct original WP:COMIC was the, longevity = notability" clause. Would you keep an article for a person who's only claim to notability was living up to retirement age? - Hahnchen 18:55, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. --JJay 19:42, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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 **[[WP:CIV]], please. - [[User:Aaron Brenneman|<font color="#2f4f4f">brenneman</font>]][[User Talk:Aaron Brenneman|<font color="#2f4f4f"><sup>(t)</sup></font>]][[Special:Contributions/Aaron Brenneman|<font color="#2f4f4f"><sup>(c)</sup></font>]] 18:16, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 *'''Delete''' - I was the original nominator, so please don't count my vote twice.  I wasn't too happy with the no-consensus of the first vote.  I did not have a chance to reply to the erronomous and misleading comments above.  Dragonfiend has already established that a popular webcomic like [[Penny Arcade]] has a respectable Alexa rank.  The comparisons to [[Orrin Hatch]] and [[Pete Ashdown]] are totally irrelevent, these are people who have had major press attention, something which this comic lacks, even in the webcomic community.  I would however, either redirect an article on Orrin Hatch's website to Orrin Hatch, or even move to delete.  Just because a site links to it, does not mean it is notable.  Heck, some blogs even link to my wikipedia page.  This comic has no assertion of notability, a low readership and almost empty forums.  Other arguments above, saying that "keep - long archive", I just don't agree with.  One of my main points against the no defunct original WP:COMIC was the, longevity = notability" clause.  Would you keep an article for a person who's only claim to notability was living up to retirement age? - [[User:Hahnchen|Hahnchen]] 18:55, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
+* '''Delete''' per nom. --[[User:JJay|JJay]] 19:42, 10 November 2005 (UTC)