Talk:List of rampage killers

This list will contain

every case with one or both of the following features:

• Cases with six or more dead (excluding the perpetrator)
• Cases with a double digit number of victims (dead plus injured)

As long as there isn't any complaint by a significant number of people about this restriction, every mass murder which does no comply to these criteria will be deleted, without exception, without remorse. This list is already getting very long with this limit so I don't see any need to include every minor act of mass murder that occures. (Lord Gøn (talk) 16:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC))

Peter Okullo

If the article at Daily Monitor is correct, shouldn't Okullo be removed from the list? (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC))

• Yes, judging from the given article he shouldn't be there. (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC))
  • Why? Are 12 people dead not mass murdery enough for you? (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC))
    • Read the article stoopid! It wasn't him who shot the IDPs, but those who tried to catch him. According to the article we can only be sure that he killed one person. (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC))
• I vote for removing. (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC))
  • Me, too (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC))

Ok, I'll remove him now. (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC))

Stephanus Swart

Howdy. Just figured you might want to know about this fellow [[1]]. This is a really interesting list, I made a similar one myself, and all my friends found it quite morbid that I'd be categorizing these people. Overall, I find stuff like this incredibly fascinating.

I also noticed that John List was absent from the list. He killed 5 of his family back in '71 and managed to escape and lead a normal life for nearly 20 years!!

If I run across anyone else that can be added, I'll let you know.Longevitymonger (talk) 00:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

• So, Swart is that guys name? Thanks a lot. I've just added him yesterday, but wasn't able to find his name, so I had to include him as an unknown farmer. He also killed more than the six the New York Times article stated. And I'm pretty sure you are not alone with your fascination for stuff like this. All those true crime books and websites prove my point. Also there are quite a few similar, though less complete lists like this one on the internet, and to be honest I've pilfered them wherever it was possible.
  Of John List I know of course, it's just that there are so many people out there, who have killed a few that I thought it was necessary to draw a line somewhere. And this limit, as stated in the introductory part, was six dead or a double digit number of dead plus injured (excluding the perpetrators). Truth is that I have found almost three dozen cases of family murder alone with five dead, without doing a lot of research, so I left them out to keep the overall number down. Of course these rules are not cast in stone and could be changed anytime, but the list would grow quite a lot if we'd do. Even in the current form it is getting obnoxiously long and I thought about pushing the limit upwards.
  Anyway, every form of help is always welcome, so if you find something suitable for this list go ahead and tell me, or you could do me a favour, relieve me of some work and include it yourself. :) (Lord Gøn (talk) 15:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

More Madmen

• March 12, 1976 -- (6 killed)-- Trevose, Pennsylvania: George Geschwendt shot and killed six members of the Abt family. [[2]]
• Feb. 7, 2008 -- Kirkwood City Council shooting: Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton went on a shooting rampage at a public meeting in the city hall, leaving five people dead and two others injured.
• Feb. 12, 2007 -- Salt Lake City, Utah: Sulejman Talovic shot five people to death and wounded four others at a Trolley Square shopping mall in Salt Lake City before being fatally shot by police.
• April 10, 2002 -- Dover Township, New Jersey: police officer Edward Lutes killed himself after shooting to death five people and wounding his boss. [[3]]
• Nov. 1, 1991 -- Iowa City, Iowa: Gang Lu, a physics student at the University of Iowa, shot and killed four faculty members and a student and paralyzed another before shooting himself.
• May 26, 1896 -- Campbell, California: James Dunham using an axe and firearms, killed his wife, her family, and two of that family's servants. [[4]]Longevitymonger (talk) 19:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Unknowns

I have a problem with the number of entires with "unknown" in the name column. By its title, this list is first and foremost about the person who committed the crime, not the crime itself. If it is not known who the mass murderer or spree killer is, should it really be included on the list? Blueboar (talk) 19:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Yikes... looking at this further, is anyone maintaining it? It is supposed to be listed according to number of victims... and that is definitely NOT the case currently. I am going to have to do some serious clean up and reoganization. Help would be appreciated. Blueboar (talk) 19:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I don't see why those incidents, where the name of the perpetrator is not available due to incomplete news reports, should not be included. Ok, the title of the article might suggest that it's mostly about the perpetrators themselves, though in my eyes it is more about the incidents than the people who committed them, so we could discuss about changing the title, but removing the "unknowns" would make the list even more incomplete than it is already. So I think they should remain where they are.
And by the way, the list is consistently sorted by the number of victims. Not the total number, but the number of dead. So, to avoid further confusion in the future, I guess we could retitle it to List of mass murders and spree killings by death toll or something like that. (Lord Gøn (talk) 20:06, 27 August 2008 (UTC))

Yes, renaming would clarify things. Lists should be named in a way that clearly and umabiguously tells the reader what the list is about. At the moment, it should be about the perpetrators, not the incidents. If you want it the other way around, you would indeed need to change the name. However, I do need to interject a word of caution. I realize that the there are some key differences, but your proposed title sounds an awful lot like that of the old "List of Massacres" article... which was a constent POV magnet and bone of contention. That article was only saved from AfD by a compromise that severely narrowed its scope and inclusion criteria. I suspect that this article will, if renamed have similar problems... I strongly suggest that you avoid a almost certain future AfD debate by clearly defining what constitutes a "Mass murder" or "killing spree", outlining very firm and clear inclusion criteria, and demanding reliable sourcing at the time of addition. Blueboar (talk) 20:56, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, what about the title List of mass murders and spree killings perpetrated by individuals, where every victim is targeted seperately, with at least six dead or a total of ten victims (excl. perpetrators), sorted by death toll. This would describe acurately what this list is about, but could anyone handle this monstrosity? I begin to feel sorry that the English vocabulary is lacking a word describing these people. "Mass murderer" is to broad, spree killer to narrow. Any suggestions for a better title? (Lord Gøn (talk) 21:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC))

Remove all unknown entries and if this list is put up for an AfD again let me know because I think it should be deleted, it definitely falls foul of WP:NOT "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. It is a POV nightmare, what about lawful combatants and state executioners. For example does one include incidents like Bloody Sunday (yes it is a disambiguation page -- take you pick). The trouble one runs into with civil wars is that usually at the end of them there has to be legislation like the Indemnity and Oblivion Act to sort out the legality of the acts on both sides, so conflicts that are ongoing are wide open to POV interpretations. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 11:38, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but I cannot see where this list violates the rules against indiscriminate collection of information. This list is neither a statistic, nor does it contain news reports of unnotable events. Or is a mall shooting in Namibia not notable enough to get mentioned in a list, while the same happening in the US deserves its own article, simply because the former is not widely reported in western media, while they make a lot of fuss about the latter? And this list is not a "POV nightmare". Is the concept behind this list so complicated that no one understands it? I thought that it is quite easy to grasp that it is about people like James Oliver Huberty or Cho Seung-Hui, which means people running amok and guys going on a shooting spree or the like, and that lawful combatants or state executioners have no place in it. So, even after a quick scan it is easy to see that none of the Bloody Sunday incidents must be mentioned here. I really have to ask myself if anyone even reads the introduction to this list, as it makes, at least in my eyes, quite clear what is allowed to be included and what not. (Lord Gøn (talk) 13:50, 28 August 2008 (UTC))

Hmmm... I don't think the introdcution does make it clear. You have to read the introduction carefully to figure out what is acceptable and what is not... to be honest, it is a bit long and rambling. Perhaps it could be restated in briefer terms? Blueboar (talk) 14:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'll try to rework it to make things more clearly understandable, though this might take some time, and I wouldn't bet that it will result in a shorter version. (Lord Gøn (talk) 15:38, 28 August 2008 (UTC))

What is murder? User:Lord Gøn, you have not answered the question about combat killings and civil wars. It is a POV nightmare for the same reason that the word terrorism is a POV nightmare. You may well be able to distinguish what is a murder and a legal killing in a stable state. But in a state suffering political destabilisation then it becomes much more difficult to define what is a lawful killing and what is a murder.

Why make a distinction in the way that people kill, in what way is killing with a knife of a gun different from killing with poison or a bomb. What if the person uses a large gun that fires shells, is there a technical limit on the size of the round? If not then what is the difference between a killing using a hand grenade and killing using a rocket-propelled grenade?

The further that one goes back in history one goes the more complicated this gets. Did you realise that Clan Campbell and Clan Donald fought a clan war that went on for hundreds of years? Can such killings be included? A very common reason for mass killing is vendetta and honour killings, sometimes these are seen as murder sometimes they are not, but one gets into complicated semantics about the sate monopoly on lawful executions and is it legitimate argument if the state is not seen as as entity by a large portion of the population. Also What about the mass killings that take place during military occupations are they mass murders or mass killings?

User:Lord Gøn all in all I do not see how this list can ever be anything but OR and POV. Not because events and people at the centre of the list would not show up in all such lists but because of the difficulties of defining at the margins what can and can not be in this list. The is exactly the same problem that the article List of massacres suffered from before it was renamed to List of events named massacres. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 15:48, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I see the problem, though I think it mostly comes from the fact that the English language has no adequate word to describe those people I mean. The concept this list is based on derives mostly from the German word "Amokläufer" which literally means "person running amok". If you want to translate it into English though, you'll either end up with "mass murderer" or "spree killer", but neither of those two describes it very well, so you have to deal with words that either are not nearly exact enough or much to narrow in their scope. "Rampage killer" might fit best.

The thing is, that the word "Amokläufer" would automatically exclude every murder committed in any form of combat situation, gang wars, vendettas, felony related mass murders, killings by mobs on a rampage, mass murders committed by the military or terrorists/freedom fighters, clan wars etc. It would also exlcude arsons, poisonings or bombings, because you cannot run amok with fire, poison or a bomb. The killing in short succession by your own hand without obvious motivation is essential here. On the other hand school shootings or shooting/stabbing sprees would be included.

It's really not that difficult to figure out which incidents would be allowed and which not. The problem is how do you explain it? Although the US-media constantly report about people going postal, "pulling a Columbine" or whatever, in the United States quite extensively, and compare them to previous similar incidents, thus giving the impression that they "belong together", they failed so far to come up with an overarching term for them. So, from my point of view, the criteria for inclusion are quite obvious and strict. The issue I am facing is the lack of an exact English word to describe what this list is about.(Lord Gøn (talk) 17:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC))

"person[s] running amok", is an accurate description of mob behaviour (for example look at the Gordon Riots, and of first the behaviour of the rioters and then the army that came in to put down the riots). An army is in many respects an organised mob. When attacking soldiers frequently get their blood up and make frenzied attacks, and in this state they often do things that they would not do in "cold blood". This is also true for civilians, hence the term "cold blooded murder". Two other related words are blood-lust, "lust for the shedding of blood" and berserk "frenzied, furiously or madly violent; esp. in phr. to go berserk." but these can be used for both soldiers and civilians. The trouble that you have with all these phrases is that as they are not legal phrases there is no precise definition for them, so any such list is bound to have POV problems, particularly with politically motivated attacks, as different editors will consider different actions to be persons running amok. You will need to come up with a precise definition that can be supported by reliable sources if this list is to be useful. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 20:05, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Carnation massacre

I believe this should be listed in family slaughters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Massacre Cyanidethistles (talk) 02:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Major Change

Just a suggestion: Get rid of categories. It makes sense when you create the article, but is confusing to anyone trying to use it. Just plain list by number.24.10.110.171 (talk) 16:49, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I think in a list of that size categorisation is almost essential, because it makes navigation much easier, and it's also a cheap way to give a little bit of extra information. If the categories were to be removed the result would be an unsightly block of text and numbers, without improving the usability of the list. How the categories could contribute to confuse users I don't understand. In my eyes they are quite self-explaining. (Lord Gøn (talk) 21:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC))

Weapon list

This may take a lot of time to revamp, but I think having a weapons box in there would be very relevant and informative to be integrated with the list. If this is a list of mass murderers and spree killers, being informed of what weapon they used to commit that is important. {Tim C} 07:49, 26 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cyanidethistles (talk • contribs)

• When starting the article I had the intention to do just that, include information about the weapons used, but mostly it is nearly impossible to find out something that is beyond vague and in some cases, like Whitman's the list of weaponry would be pretty long, thus I decided not to include it. I think it's better to put things like that into the cases' atricles, if enough information is available, or write a little summary that is shown in the reference section, which I do sometimes. That way the list looks more tidy, imho. (Lord Gøn (talk) 23:41, 26 October 2008 (UTC))

You're right about that, and a lot of cases won't have the exact gun or weapon identified, other than it being "shotgun." It was a suggestion, and I can see cons from it other than the pros. Not related to the weapon list, but I'll gladly help out with this article. If you think you have the ambition to get this list to the featured lists as a candidate, I can see it because a lot of effort was put into this list, despite the fact that it may remain incomplete due to the numbers of cases out there, even from the ancient times. {Tim C} 00:50, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

• Heh, if this list ever gets featured status I would be very surprised. I assume the subject alone would prevent that from ever happening. Though you're right, I've definitely put a lot of time into this list, maybe more than is good. It already haunts me in my dreams. But as I've started this I feel a weird duty to get the best out of it as possible. Anyway, I guess this is as worse a way to waste your time as anything else, thus could as well try to get it featured. Though a lot of work has to be done, still, to have even the slightest chance. (Lord Gøn (talk) 00:47, 28 October 2008 (UTC))

Exactly. The list may always remain as a dynamic list seeing as there are cases out there that are unreported, and this list seems to have the purpose of displaying attacks that are known to man via online services. The only way to go further into this is to look at old news archives or look through federal and state records of such incidents. So unfortunately this list isn't the kind of list that may be accepted in the featured lists, but for the effort that you put in here, I think you deserve it. It's a very helpful list and most of the information would take weeks for one to research it. {Tim C} 03:49, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Let's get rid of the numbers on the left

I wanted to add a guy who killed 8 at a Russian submarine base, but there's no way I'm going to rewrite all the numbers on the left (if I add him at no. 29 or whatever, I have to rewrite all the numbers after him). After all, we don't care who is at no. 1, 10 or 20 - we just care how many were killed/injured. Malick78 (talk) 08:50, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

• Alexander Kuzminykh is already added here. About the numbers, well, you are right, it is quite annoying to fix them every time you add something, so it is very likely that they'll be removed at some point. (Lord Gøn (talk) 16:09, 11 November 2008 (UTC))
  • Well, as for now I'm going to keep the numbers, as long as there are not more people complaining about them, because of the possibility to put sortable lists back into their original state. And I really like the boxed look they create.
    If anyone wants to add something, simply ignore the numbers, I'll fix them later. (Lord Gøn (talk) 22:04, 16 November 2008 (UTC))

Hide references

As the list of references is pretty long, would anyone mind if I'd hide them to cut the length of the page down? (Lord Gøn (talk) 01:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC))

Ronald DeFeo, Jr. - Amityville

Ronald DeFeo, Jr., killed six members of his family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_DeFeo,_Jr.

--Libraryfan11 (talk) 06:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Page size

Ok, I guess everyone can see that this list is much too large. When I'm done with making all lists sortable it will be like 300k bytes, which I think is totally unacceptable. So, I will have to do some culling. If someone has a suggestion on how this circumcision shall be performed, state your opinion here. Otherwise I will just do what I deem acceptable. (Lord Gøn (talk) 18:57, 9 January 2009 (UTC))

Easy downsizing first, I'll remove every incident with more than one perpetrator in the "Other notable incidents" section. (Lord Gøn (talk) 23:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC))

Next step, getting rid of some incidents with a rather low number of casualties, meaning "mass murders by intention", which are cases with less than four dead, will be removed, if the total number of victims is less than a dozen. More trimming will be needed, but I will refrain from doing so for the time being. (Lord Gøn (talk) 00:11, 10 January 2009 (UTC))

The following cases were removed:
From the mass murders-section: Dalmacio Sargento, Ramkissoon Lochan, Michael Soles, James K. Koslow, Sylvia Seegrist, Ricardo Contawe, Juan J. Gonzalez, Walter Smalley and three Unknown.
From the killing sprees-section: David W. Logsdon, Kenneth H. Schlomann, Richard Harold Hicks, William Bernard Griffin, Russell Lee Smith, Daniel Fears and Carlos Poree.
From the hate-crimes section: Ziyad Salim Hussein Silmi, Benjamin Nathaniel Smith and Larry Wayne Shoemake.
From the school massacre-section: Luke Woodham, Brenda Ann Spencer, James William Wilson and Hwang. (Lord Gøn (talk) 00:36, 10 January 2009 (UTC))

Ed Gein, ICP, etc

No mention of Ed Gein on the list. Also, I was surprised the kid who tried to kill people with an axe (Insane Clown Possee follower) wasn't listed under Hate Crimes, either. --24.21.148.155 (talk) 23:10, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

• First, if anything Ed Gein is a serial killer and serial killers are not included in this list. Second Ed Gein killed only two people which would disqualify him anyway. About the other case, I don't know anything about it, though I assume you mean Jacob D. Robida. Reading the article, the attack resulted in 2 people dead and 4 injured, which is not enough to qualify. (Lord Gøn (talk) 23:47, 15 February 2009 (UTC))

George Banks

I think George Banks deserves to be on this list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Banks but I'm not too good at charts and things. Davidac18643 (talk) 18:56, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

He is on the list here. (Lord Gøn (talk) 19:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC))

Sorry, I found him under Family slaughters, I didn't realize the list had so many subdivisionsDavidac18643 (talk) 11:42, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Harold Oilar and Charlie Lawson

These ought to be added to the list. Charlie Lawson already has an article on here, so I'd add him to the list myself, but I'm unsure how. Harold Oilar killed his wife and three kids, in Pasadena in 1954.

http://laurajames.typepad.com/clews/family_annihilators/

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/2007/11/rampage-revisit.html

Charlie Lawson could be included, if he weren't already. See here #42. Oilar on the other hand falls below the victim threshold. (Lord Gøn (talk) 19:58, 19 March 2009 (UTC))

Martin Nelson

Howdy. After the recent spate of mass shootings I began doing some research myself for my own list and I found this guy [[5]] via a geneology site. I always like finding these really early cases because it proves mass murder or spree shootings aren't strictly a 20th century phenomenon. I also have two questions for you. I recently found an article concerning the Kirkwood City Council shooting last year and I remembered the perpetrator (Charles "Cookie" Thornton) killed five, but I didn't see his name here. As it turns out, the mayor injured in the shooting died some months later bringing the total to six. I would add these people myself, but I'd probably fuck up the numbering/tables you've made so I've elected not to. Also, what's up with that William Unek character? I've tried to find info about that guy via the NYTIMES archive but its like he doesn't exist. I think you'll probably agree that his victim count certainly puts him in the "all star" category, if there was such a thing. I'm continually searching for other people that belong here and if I find any that aren't listed, I'll try and learn how to add em'. Longevitymonger

Good morrning. I had a little discussion with User:Cyanidethistles about including the Kirkwood City Council shooting or not. I'll simply quote from there:
"To quote this article:
Mr. Swoboda's health deteriorated following a fall he took in early May, according to his son. He also had cancer. (...) "The cancer really got worse as his health was compromised. He had a number of cancers," Michael said.
And here it says:
Mr. Swoboda died Saturday, Sept. 6, from complications from cancer, and injuries he suffered in the Feb. 7 shootings at Kirkwood City Hall."
You see, he had cancer, and though his injuries from the shooting might have played a not insignificant role in his death, I assume it was the cancer that finished him off.

About William Unek, well, the bad thing is, it happened in Africa a long time ago. Even today the western world gives a damn shit about the black continent, its inhabitants and whatever happens to them, as long as there aren't at least several dozen people killed. Now Unek killed quite a few, too many to completely ignore the incident, but not nearly enough to do some extensive reporting, and, I guess, if he hadn't escaped from the scene to be searched even by the King's African Rifles, no western newspaper would have cared to print an article about his rampage. So, we are left with only a few and very short articles, most of them not even mentioning his name. In fact the only one mentioning the name Unek was the article in the Lethbridge Herald, which I read via Google News when articles from NewspaperARCHIVE.com were still available there. To quote from it:

Uganda police began piecing together the career of a deranged African policeman who was perhaps the greatest murder in criminal history. He shot, stabbed, clubbed or strangled 57 persons. Police said they had shown photoes of the man, who killed 36 Africans in Tanganyika last month, to police in the Belgian Congo. They identified him as the man who ran amok, there three years ago and killed 21 persons. William Unek was caught and wounded after a nine-day hunt in Tanganyika. He died in hospital.

The Times article from Feb. 16, 1957 reads as follows:

A company of the King’s African Rifles, with British officers, have now joined the police and Wasukuma tribesmen in the hunt for the African police-constable who ran amok early on Monday morning and who is now known to have killed 36 people, all within the first 24 hours. No more murders have been reported since Tuesday night. Sixteen of the victims were men, 10 were women, and 10 children. Ten of the men were shot, five axed, and one stabbed; eight of the women were shot and two burned; eight of the children were shot, one burned, and one girl aged 15 strangled.

This pdf-file mentions a famous story in Malampaka, about a man only referred to as William who killed many people in the area:

The story of William is very famous in the area. It happened in Malampaka in 1956 when William was a police soldier. Narrators say he killed many people in Malampaka and neighbouring villages because of social misunderstandings with his boss. For a long time people were unable to work on the farms until William was finally killed. This period of terror is still in the minds of the people and is narrated from one generation to another.

This article from the Hamburger Abendblatt reports his name as William Uneko, also stating that he killed 37, instead of the 36 reported in most of the other articles I've found. The Straits Times article tells of 34 people killed. You can read part of this article by searching the newspaper's archive here. BTW, the NYT article mentions no more than the basics, just that an African constable killed thirtysix persons with an ax and a stolen police rifle in a viilage, forty miles southeast of Mwanza and that soldiers, police and tribesmen are searching for him.
That said, I'm going to add Martin Nelson. (Lord Gøn (talk) 19:19, 1 April 2009 (UTC))

Thanks for the info

Thanks for the clarification on the Kirkwood massacre as I hadn't read that the mayor was suffering from cancer. Also, the William Unek stuff was an interesting read, especially because the guy killed over 50+ people and it hardly warrented any attention (sort of brings to mind Ahmed Bragimov.) I readily agree with you on the subject of Africa, as the only time it receives news attention in my neck of the woods is if theres a new AIDS outbreak or other catastrophe. I was culling through some of the NYTIMES archive tonight and I found two more early cases, one is a pdf file here [[6]]and the second is about a woman named Ethel Geller [[7]] who shot seven of her eleven children back in 1930. The damn thing is you have to pay a fee to read the whole article. I should also mention a website you've undoubtedly seen called "Spank Me's Mass Murder" which is really informative when in regards to the folks listed here. I've noticed that the site hasn't been updated for the past three or so years. I've considering e-mailing the guy with some of the people that are featured here and elsewhere on the net. Also, much obliged for adding Martin Nelson. Longevitymonger

I'll add Ethel Geller later. Of the other case I know already, but for certain reasons I didn't add the family murders with six people killed, yet. I have about fifty such cases waiting for their inclusion, though I am still unsure how to handle the Family Slaughters-category, as domestic violence doesn't mix that well with the public mass murders. The thing is that family murders are on the one hand a lot more common than their public pendants. I remember reading a study by Grant Duwe about mass murders in the United States and, if I remember correctly, 44% of the 909 cases he found, were family related (most of the rest being felony related or arsons). On the other hand theses cases are a lot less widely reported, so the bias in that section towards murders happening in western nations, and especially in the U.S., would be even more severe than in the others. So, I don't know yet what to do with it.
About Bragimov, or better Ibragimov, I can tell you that there is not a lot to find on the web, not even in Russian. Most of the sources simply tell you that Aslan Maskhadov was questioned about the incident, though this Boston Globe-article had some details about it, telling that the bus driver Akhmad Ibragimov was handcuffed to a pole and beaten to death with rods by some of his victims relatives, after he had killed more than 40 people. Besides that, I guess so many cruelties happened during the Second Chechen War, that this incident was no more than a little side note.
Of course I know of "Spank Me's Mass Murder" and I think it is still a valuable source, although it isn't updated anymore, because, as you can read there: "I can't be arsed anymore. Just go to Wiki. It is wise and knows all." (Lord Gøn (talk) 01:56, 2 April 2009 (UTC))

14 dead in Binghamton Shooting

Wow. I get home from work and I see this on the NYTIMES webpage. This is really getting to be commonplace. I was just reading Loren Coleman's copycat effect blog on shooting rampages after the Carthage shooting and it mentioned that March and April are the hotspots for when people decide to "pop off". The shooting in Binghamton today took me by surprise, as I hadn't expected to be reading about another case this quickly after the one in North Carolina. Binghamton is about 180 miles away from where I live. Evidently the perpetrator was found with the identification "Jiverly Voong", but according to the Buffalo News "The name is an alias that the man has used in the past, said the official, who was not authorized to speak publicly and was talking on condition of anonymity." After this massacre, I'm beginning to wonder whether soemthing will occur on the 20th of April, as it is the 10th anniversary of Colombine. Also, thanks for adding Ethel Geller. Longevitymonger