Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/MZMcBride 2: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively

← Previous edit Next edit →

Content deleted Content added

VisualWikitext

Inline

Revision as of 16:33, 8 April 2009

MZMcBride

Voice your opinion (talk page) (46/23/3); scheduled to end 05:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Nomination

[[::User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] (talk · contribs)

Why are you running for adminship? Isn't there an ongoing case regarding you at Arbitration?
I'm running for adminship because I believe that there's still a lot I have to offer to the community. I've contributed a lot to the maintenance of the site over the past two years and I believe that there's a lot of work left to be done.

Yes, there's an ongoing Arbitration case against me. I have a deep amount of respect for the members of the Committee, but I believe that the Committee is making the wrong decision with regard to my administrator rights.
Why did you delete the secret pages?
I made the mistake of assuming that doing so was in-line with the previous deletion discussion and the community's views toward pages of that nature. I turned out to be wrong, and I offered to restore or e-mail any copies of the pages upon request. I genuinely believed that the log summaries were playful and I never intended offense. After having surveyed a good bit of the past deletion logs, I agree with Carcharoth that administrators need to take far more precaution when deleting things.
Do you intend to continue to run adminbots under your main account?
No. I've filed two Bot requests for approval already (see here and here). In the past, I ran a number of bots under my main account. That era is over.
Why not wait a few months? What's the rush?
There isn't a rush. But the backlogs around here never stop growing. Does that mean I'm irreplaceable? Not at all. As Keegan is quick to point out, user rights are not a golden ticket. No user needs any user rights.

I see this request as a way to put faith back into a project that I've given a lot of my time, resources, and energy to.
Why don't you seek more input before doing things?
In many cases, after "getting the hang" of the site, I felt I had enough grasp to not need to seek as much input (on-wiki) after being here for a few years. I also felt there were a lack of proper venues for discussing some of these things that I was doing, especially deletions. However, I've come to realize that this view isn't always accurate. There are plenty of people willing to offer guidance and input, if nudged a bit into doing so.
What are your regrets from the past four years?
My biggest regret is being too rash with some of my actions. Often, I've been frustrated with the pace of certain things around the site. And I believe that this impatience sometimes causes me to want to move extra quickly. I've learned that some of the time, it's best to sit back and take more time to think about things and get consultation from others.
Are you open to recall?
Yes, I am open to recall, as outlined here.
What are your best contributions?
I think my best contribution to the project has been the Database reports I've created. They allow people to help out, even in minor ways. And they've let me learn new things such as cronjobs and (limited) Python.
Why don't you work on articles?
The truth is that I've never been a very good writer. Or at least I've never had enough confidence to write brilliant prose. I do a lot better with more gnome-like tasks: fixing infoboxes, correcting links, etc. Recently, I've edited a lot of articles adding Category:Living people to them. Tasks like this allow me to contribute to the article space in a productive way.
You're a bit of a bastard.
Yes, I have a biting sense of humor and I don't always conceal it well. Oh well. That being said, this request is serious and my efforts to improve as an administrator are very serious.
If nothing else, what do you want people to take away from this request for adminship?
I think, as a community, we're not forgiving enough. Out of all of the user essays on the site, the one that resonates the most with me is Assume the presence of a belly-button. Everybody makes mistakes. I've made my fair share and I've asked for forgiveness from the community for them. Will I make mistakes in the future? Yes, I'm human. But I've learned a lot from my past mistakes and I vow not to repeat those. I've also asked those I've caused distress to to come to me so that old wounds can be healed.

These are the questions I've anticipated will come up with from looking at past RFAs. However, there are undoubtedly further questions that the community has. Feel free to post them below.

Thank you for your time and consideration. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:45, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Questions for the candidate

From Anonymous Dissident: If there's no rush, why run so soon after the Arbitration case, when the details of that very case are, in fact, not yet finalised? —Anonymous Dissident^Talk 06:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Committee is nearly finished voting and there is (almost) no likelihood of the outcome of the case changing. FloNight suggested that I ask for the community's input, so that's what I've chosen to do.
Questions from Ched How do you reconcile your answers to the preemptive questions 4 and 6 with the actual filing of this RfA? More directly: You say "...it's best to sit back and take more time to think about things and get consultation from others." and yet you request your admin. bit be returned within days of surrendering it at ArbCom; what actions should we be looking at to show that you have indeed become more patient?
I think it's important to realize that while I resigned my adminship recently, it came after a long Arbitration case. The decision to resign wasn't made lightly, to be sure. However, as soon as I acted, a lot of my colleagues contacted me (both on-wiki and off-wiki) and told me that resigning was a mistake. I decided to listen to their judgment and re-request adminship from the community.
You've mentioned that you contribute productively at Wikipedia:Database reports and Category:Living people; as well as stating that the admin buttons are not a "Golden Ticket". Why do you believe you require these admin. buttons in order to edit those areas? and in what areas do you intend to use these admin. functions if they are returned to you?
I intend to use the admin tools mostly doing maintenance deletions like I have previously. While it may not be obvious, for the past year or so I've tried to avoid 'contentious' speedy deletions like ones that involve CSD A7. When I first got my tools, I used to clear the CSD category frequently. But as time passed, I found that I did better with more clear cases like broken redirects and orphaned talk pages. My recent interaction with content deletions (the secret pages) has re-affirmed that maintenance is where I'm best suited. Regarding Database reports specifically, there are certainly areas that require admin tools to clear the backlogs. The same is true for biography-related work. I imagine I'll continue with similar maintenance (redirects and talk pages), if the community is willing to grant me a second chance.
Many candidates have their RfA closed as "unsuccessful" due to Oppose votes which cite WP:NOTNOW; either due to a lack of recent editing experience, poor judgment, or not enough time to demonstrate an actual change in their editing patterns. Is there a reason that you should be exempt from the "NOTNOW" practices?
Well, I think it's important to realize that this is obviously not a standard request for adminship, so a typical oppose wouldn't really seem appropriate in this case. NOTNOW almost exclusively applies to editors who are new to the site and who are eager to become administrators. I've been a member of the community for about four years and I have thousands of edits and logged actions, so I don't believe the typical NOTNOW arguments apply.
You're requested feedback from the community a couple days ago; what actions should we look to in order to see that you've listened to this feedback? ... and, why do you feel this RfA is a better venue than Editor review?
RFA and Editor review have similar means, but different ends in my mind. One could look at the recent Arbitration case as a giant Editor review. And from that case I've learned that while we operate on a fast-paced, ever-changing wiki, going slower is sometimes the best option. There are a lot of smart people on this site, who, when nudged a bit, can offer very insightful commentary and views into problems and situations that a single person would never be able to come up with.

For my part, I've filed two Bot requests for approval, I've made a conscious effort to address any bad feelings editors and admins may have with me (see the "Redressing grievances" section on my talk page) and I've vowed to take a more cautious approach in the future, including no longer running adminbots under my main account.
You state in your preemptive Q&A that: "I believe that the Committee is making the wrong decision with regard to my administrator rights.". Why should the community trust your self-judgment over the collective members they've previously selected to serve at the Arbitration Committee? — Ched : ? 10:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe the community is being asked to trust my self-judgment. I believe they're being asked to trust their own. I've made my pledges and I've tried to right my wrongs; ultimately, however, it will be the community's decision whether or not I get a second chance at adminship.

Very briefly, on a complete side note, that dog on your user page is adorable.

Additional questions from Sam Blacketer

1. By self-nominating, you are declaring your belief that you are a suitable person to have access to functions reserved to administrators. If it is your belief that your previous conduct as an administrator is such that it demonstrates your suitability to retain, or regain, access to administrator powers, why did you not submit evidence of it in the ongoing arbitration case? Sam Blacketer (talk) 14:55, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A: This question is particularly interesting. I didn't submit any evidence to the /Evidence subpage of my case. I'm a firm believer in DefendEachOther and more simply, any evidence I would have presented would hold little value (in my mind, at least) because I obviously would never introduce anything unbiased about myself.

To be completely honest, I expect (at least some of) the Committee to review the users in a case themselves and make appropriate determinations. In this particiular case, that happened somewhat, given some of the findings that NYB presented with regard to my biography-related work.

I didn't present any evidence directly, but I certainly did what amounts to testifying when questioned (extensively) by the Committee via e-mail (later posted to the /Workshop page, at my urging). And one could say I took the stand twice as Carcharoth presented me with a new round of questions later.

If there was further evidence that you wanted me to present that I didn't, I apologize. As others were noting yesterday at the general Arbitration talk page, a lot of users go before the Committee without much idea of its processes and functions. Perhaps I erred in not presenting direct evidence in my favor, but I don't know for sure.

2. Given the unusual circumstances, this request for adminship could be interpreted as a deliberate attempt to frustrate an ongoing arbitration case. Could you say to what extent this is so? Can you give a general statement of your belief about the responsibilities of administrators in relation to the process of arbitration? Sam Blacketer (talk) 14:55, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A: Not at all. Ultimately, the community is king. And it will be the community's choice whether or not I regain adminship. The Committee has voted in favor of this remedy—that is, a new RFA. While the case is still technically open, that portion of it at least, is closed.

With regard to administrators and Arbitration, I believe that the bar is much, much higher than it is between editors and Arbitration. For my part, I responded as quickly as I could with as much detail as I could. I didn't shirk from my responsibility to be responsive to the Committee (and the community), like others have done in the past. While both editors and administrators are volunteers, administrators have been trusted to be responsive to the Committee and the community, so the burden is higher for them to do so.

General comments

Links for MZMcBride: MZMcBride (talk · contribs · deleted · count · logs · block log · lu · rfar · search an, ani, cn, an3)
Edit summary usage for MZMcBride can be found here.
Promote MZMcBride (bureaucrats only)

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/MZMcBride before commenting.

Discussion

For those that prefer them:

~ ωαdεstεr16_«talk^stalk» 06:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The ArbCom case was surely a wakeup call to him: his actions, whilst mostly good, had several problems that the community raised. I'd have preferred him to take a break, perhaps even for just a week, but I am sure he is sincere he has learned from his mistakes. And besides, if there are further issues, I don't doubt arbcom will be quick to accept a case to remove him again. Basically, he'll be treading on egg shells for a while. But he generally did a lot of useful work as an admin, and I hope he'll be a net positive if promoted, and this time will be an even better admin. I suggest MZMcBride listens carefully to all the feedback given, both on his talk page where he asked for it, and on here. There are things raised in the opposition that I agree with too much to support, so I don't really intend to vote either way. Majorly talk 13:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Strong Support The guy's one of the most active admins in wikipedia history. Goodness knows what we'd miss! On his recent issues, we need to get perspective here, ignore all the dramatizing, and extend good faith and forgiveness to a highly skilled, clued, and dedicated long-term member of our community who did the natural human thing of having a few "lapses of judgment". Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 06:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I've had the pleasure of working with him on WP:DBR, he really does have the project's best interest at heart. BJ^Talk 06:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keegan^talk 06:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support While I thought your actions were rash as hell, and I didn't agree at all, I do believe you are sincere in you promises to be more patient and profesional. We all screw up every now and then, and this community benefits more from you having access to the tools than from any mistakes you've made with them. bahamut0013^words _deeds 06:34, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Solid editor and administrator who wants wikipedia to be an encyclopedia, not a social network, and willing to the do the hard work of monitoring BLPs. --KP Botany (talk) 06:36, 8 April 2009 (UTC) And, yes, the track record on BLPs is sufficient, in my opinion, to cause support. --KP Botany (talk) 06:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support a dedicated Wikipedian who believes in the project. Have faith that the "lapses" will not reoccur. Nancy ^talk 06:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - One of the best discerning, clueful, XfD closers we have. - jc37 06:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(I'm guessing I'm not alone in supporting, considering at least the number of edit conflicts I had in trying to post this : ) - jc37 06:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My gut instinct was to be less than supportive to this request; however the honesty and integrity in the self generated and answered questions indicates that MZ has taken recent comments to heart regarding some minor errors of judgement. Pedro : Chat 06:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support without reservation. As I've followed the arbitration case, I've come to realise just how much good work MZMcBride does for Wikipedia, and how much use he gets out of the admin tools in the process. He is one of our most valuable administrators despite his sometimes-contentious actions: he is the very definition of a net-positive. ~ mazca ^t|c 06:42, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Has the best interests of the project at heart. To answer those who feel this is premature, clearly the community & ARBCOM required a behavioural change, which I believe has occurred as evidenced by Mz's comments above. It is difficult to see what the addition of some time would achieve. Kevin (talk) 06:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not trying to badger, but I think this support comes to the crux of the issue. The community & ARBCOM have requested a behaviour change. In my opinion, MZM's words above indicate movement in the right direction, but are at odds at the hastiness of his actions during the Arbcom case itself (including this self nom). What the addition of time will achieve is clarify this disconnect. Martinp (talk) 15:12, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Very valuable and hard working. I've watched his edits/actions for years in awe and think the project will be very well served with him being an admin again. --CapitalR (talk) 07:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Conflicted support. I said on the workshop of the ArbCom case that I would rather not see MZMcBride desysopped if we could avoid it. I cannot fault the ArbCom for their decision in light of the evidence shown, though I tend to agree with Newyorkbrad's vote on desysopping him (the obsolete remedy from before MZM resigned). This, my hope that he has begun to understand the problems here, and the fact that he has shown himself willing to work like an ant to get stuff done (including helping to fix our BLP issues), makes me choose to support. I do question the timing of this, and wonder how likely it is to pass, but neither of those is my decision to make. If I may leave with a thought or two for MZM: If this does pass, please use your privileges exceedingly circumspectly but decisively, especially to solve the BLP problems. If not, try again after waiting a while. And whatever happens, seek to learn from this experience. There, hope I wasn't too preachy! Take what you will from it. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 08:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I thought you were allready an admin, oh wait my bad--DFS454 (talk) 08:29, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Happy with the reassurances above, respect for doing this now rather than waiting for us to miss him in his role as admin. Ϣere SpielChequers 08:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional, so long as you don't do anything you shouldn't again (which I don't think you will). It's a pity there's an RfAR open about you because I think you were one of the most clueful admins I knew. Good luck - because I think you might need it. GARDEN 08:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? Hiding T 08:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I know we had disagreements, but I know you have done, and still do a lot of good work for 'pedia, and that you had the best intentions. I trust that you will use the tools appropriately, but also hope that when, even one, other editor has concerns, you will stop automated functions, and try to see if how the automation has to be adapted (or consider that it simply can't be done automated ..) before continuing with that. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 08:56, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I really can't stand admins or really anyone who gives a shit about userpages (save some instances). That being said, you do have a clue as to how the rest of it works. Focus on that part. the_undertow ^talk 10:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I trust that he has learnt from his mistakes, and that the mistakes themselves will make him more cautious in future. We've not always agreed, but that's only made me like you the more for it. — neuro^{(talk)(review)} 11:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Net positive --Step hen 11:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I trust your judgement and you can do stuff other admins would usually find too controversial to do, but still neeeds to be done.--Patton^t/c 11:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I fully trust you've learned from your mistakes. iMatthew : Chat 11:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious support - lots of work that still needs to be done here; I trust the admin opposers are willing to take that load on in the event that this RfA fails. (Though I agree with Viridae etc. that waiting a short while longer might have been more productive). Black Kite 12:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support as deletion of secret pages probably annoyed a few kids enough to keep them off Wiki. Woohoo! GTD 12:21, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support (ec) Please stick to our guidelines and policies, you were an excellent admin before otherwise and I have no reason to believe, if you stick with the 'rules' (horrible word), that you can't be an excellent mop holder again. Cyclonenim : Chat 12:22, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Your excellent record of adminship isn't effected by deleting near-useless 'secret' pages in my view. Nick-D (talk) 12:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - even though MZM and I have disagreed (sometimes vehemently) on certain things in the past, after we buried the hatchet and began working together I realized that his head is definitely in the right place. For those that are concerned that the old problems would return, don't forget he will still be held accountable to the arbcom remedies. –xeno (talk) 12:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support I strongly believe lessons have been learned here. I've had strong disagreements with this user in the past, but he's hard working and I know he'll use the bit uncontroversially, but in the interests of cleaning some of the backlog.--Scott Mac (Doc) 12:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Supported: I have supported your actions in the past, and continue to hold the belief that you have had the best interests in WP at heart, and will continue to show my belief that you have learned from prior mistakes and will thereby give support to this RFA. seicer | talk | contribs 12:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support; A net positive. Proven to be one, and should continue to be one. Synergy 13:03, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support A desysop, even voluntary, should not be punitive. As MZ already has decent tenure as an admin, has apologized for his mistakes, has promised not to repeat them, and has requested sysop status again, holding it back simply because of the recency of the ArbCom case would simply be punitive. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 13:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - I don't always agree with MZMcBride, in fact, when it comes to WP-related stuff, we usually disagree. However, in the many debates/arguments (sometimes heated) I've had with MZMcBride, one thing has always been clear, and that is how passionate he is about this project, and I've never questioned his intentions for any of his actions, no matter how much I disagree with them. I think it's clear that he does what he believes is best for the project. As far as this RFA coming so quickly, I thought it was too early as well, but knowing MZMcBride as I do, I did not believe it was an appropriate desysop, and many editors I spoke with agreed. ArbCom decisions should reflect community desires. I don't believe this RFA is to disregard the AC, rather than to confirm that MZMcBride's loss of the tools is the community's true desire. His work in the area of BLPs is prolific. A #1 concern of the project should be cleaning up and protecting living subjects of articles here. While that's not currently the case, it is a #1 concern of his. We need more admins with such a focus, not less. Hopefully the AC case has been a bit of a wake-up call and we'll see a change in the way he communicates. لenna vecia 13:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Arbitrary committee is arbitrary. They were stupid to even think about a temporary desysop, and I think it's clear that MZMcBride has the best interests of the encyclopedia in his actions. Clearly an asset to the encyclopedia with the tools, so they should be given freely in this case. Amazing work on WP:ANUS and similar projects show what good MZMcBride does around here. --Ali'i 13:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good God yes. While I don't always agree with MZM, I've always admired his dedication to the project and BLPs. His adminship was, in general, a net benefit. Judging by his above statement, I'm confident that he's learned his lesson. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 13:18, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ruslik0 sums up my thoughts quite nicely. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 14:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support without hesitation. MZ has always done excellent work. The arbitration case against him was/is a farce. — CharlotteWebb 13:35, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support This administrator was tremendously useful for the Wikipedia despite some minor problems. His resignation will be a huge loss for the project. Ruslik (talk) 14:04, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I don't have much to add that has not been said. MZMcBride has done an incredible amount of work as an administrator, and his loss would leave a void that would be practically impossible to fill. I do believe that MZM is sincere with his answers to the questions, and I hope that the community will agree to give MZM another chance. J.delanoy ^gabs _adds 14:22, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I believe having MZM desysopped is a net negative for the project. I find many of the oppose votes rather unconvincing and based on a rather policy-wonkish approach to Wikipedia, which I reject. I don't see what we gain by waiting some arbitrary time period here. Mr.Z-man 14:56, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support MZMcBride's contributions and admin work in maintenance areas are essential to the ever-expending encyclopedia. The arbcom case was over so trivial matter, I can't believe a desysop was considered there. On the few concerns raised, I'm confident they'll have been addressed. Cenarium (talk) 15:03, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Per Juliancolton, Lara, GTD and CharlotteWebb, all of whom I agree with. I don't agree with most of what MZM does, but I've never known him to be less than reasonable when asked to explain (and reverse if necessary) any action he's taken. To the "we can't disagree with Arbcom!" opposers – Arbcom are people, not gods, and have a long history of making weird calls. When they make a contentious decision, there's absolutely nothing wrong with throwing it over to the broader community for review, which is what's going on here. – iridescent 15:05, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support- MZMcBride having the tools is better for the project than him not having the tools. Resigning his tools and then coming to RfA seems extremely mature to me, I'm not quite sure why people are trying to use it as an argument to oppose. J Milburn (talk) 15:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
MZMcBride has my strong support for being very cooperative with ArbCom during the entire case, for not being a coward and retiring to hinder the committee, and for putting himself up for community judgment. I disagree with the "too early" opposes; this couldn't be a better time to run, and I think this candidacy shows great judgment: it would be great if more admins did this. Acalamari 15:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
– Steel 15:29, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Hammersoft (talk) 15:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. There were no blocks involved. One of the flaws with the decision was that some context wasn't properly included in the decision of a small handful of arbitrators, and a few non-issues were inflated as issues. The community needs to make a statement to the effect that if admins with clue, are willing to change but have not been recalled (if they are open to recall), then that's prima fascie evidence that no desysop should occur via other means (unless it's an emergency). As for the actual issues, I trust MZM will tackle them, and continue his outstanding work for this project. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I asked some of the arbs about context/perspective with regard to issues of the case. The reply was basically that going through the motions is more important than effects and results. Mr.Z-man 16:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support - very nice, very reasonable, I could go on and on. I see no reason to believe that MZMcBride would repeat any past mistakes. Inferno, Lord of Penguins (talk) 16:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support Whatever the arbcom outcome, I believe that MZMMcBride was acting in the best interests of wikipedia and will continue to do so. --RegentsPark (My narrowboat) 16:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support Yes, he's a bastard, but I have a record of voting for people who're bastards. Besides, he's a nice bastard, with a knowledge of the wiki, and a net positive to the project. He's certainly shown that he's learned from his mistakes, and the answers to the questions he generated were really the thing that assured my support. I'll admit, I've argued with him before, and I'm quite sure that I'll argue with him again. But that doesn't change my vote. --Neskaya ^kanetsv? 16:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

Oppose. There are countless reasons to do so, from ignoring WP:CSD whenever he feels like it to ignoring community discussion and continuing controversial actions after being told to stop and discuss or his disregard for consensus (see Sjakkalle's oppose for a example where MZM used his own "I think this should be deleted"-judgement rather than judging consensus to close an AFD - that is just not acceptable behavior for an admin). I do not believe he is serious when he says he has a "a deep amount of respect for the members of the [Arbitration] Committee" and yet does not even allow ArbCom to rule on him before requesting desysop and returning here. It would be respectful to way until it's over before submitting a new RFA, not sooner. But the main reason I oppose (and that is not because I wish MZM anything bad) is that I am evaluating him like I would evaluate any new user requesting adminship. And honestly, if a new user came here, while an ArbCom case against them was still pending in which there are multiple findings that the candidate has shown misconduct, if this new user had a lengthy block log for running unapproved bots on his main account (with the last one barely a month ago for (and I quote) "bot still running while editor promised to stop") and if this user had multiple ANI threads devoted to examining their behavior, noone would expect many people to support them. And noone would be surprised to see them fail. While anyone makes mistakes, I cannot treat MZM any different from any user requesting adminship. We had good candidates here in the past, who failed because they had a limited understanding of WP:CSD. MZM has demonstrated to have none whatsoever - Q2 says it all: he went to delete pages outside CSD based on a consensus that did not exist; furthermore, even if such pages really were deemed unacceptable, those deletions would still have been outside policy and an admin should know that. MZM has made mistakes, multiple times and repeatedly, with a certain stubbornness, too. I cannot support any random user with such a track record of behavior, no matter how beneficial some of their contributions may be. The same standard applies to MZM. I urge everyone commenting here to ask themselves, whether they would support a candidate with such a track record that was not called "MZMcBride". Regards So Why 06:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My support for him has nothing to do with the name, but rather the actions behind it. He devotes a huge amount to this project and does a great deal of thankless admin work. In return I ask you, do you honestly think the project is better off without him as an adminstrator? I asked myself that and the answer was an unequivocal no. BJ^Talk 07:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I concur with BJ about having properly assessed the candidate in my support. Keegan^talk 07:11, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I think so. An admin who has proven time and time again that he is not willing to follow vital policies like WP:DEL/WP:CSD and has a apparent disregard for consensus (see ArbCom's proposed findings #2, #3, #4.1, #4.4, #5, #6, #9.2) is more harmful to the project than beneficial. Because this behavior is BITEy and loses us editors who may improve the encyclopedia with their contributions. I do not believe that someone is allowed to break the rules and behave like that just because they do beneficial work. An admin should be an example in following the rules, not the opposite. Backlogs may be harmful but they can be dealt with by anyone. Users that we lose because of such behavior cannot be that easily replaced. Things need to get done, that is true. But there is a limit to what we should be willing to sacrifice to do them and I think neither losing users nor ignoring policies is warranted to get them done. Regards So Why 07:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes for the sake of improving the encyclopedia, it is more beneficial to do things against the rules. Rules only serve to guide editors, not direct them, on Wikipedia. If we dictate everything we do by rules, then this project would've failed a long time ago. —Dark ^talk 07:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know of the importance of WP:IAR. But it does not allow you to do things you know are controversial, otherwise you could just delete all policies and be done with it. MZM has exhibited a "shoot them all and let God sort them out"-understanding of IAR that has hurt the project often: Because of his approach, we had countless ANI discussions, wasted people's time explaining to an established admin what WP:CSD is, had to invest countless hours in reversing actions he did against consensus, etc. Ignoring rules is not okay if you know you are acting against consensus or are going around biting newcomers. There is something like common sense that should accompany those actions against the rules and MZM has demonstrated in the past that he would rather act than to seek consensus for his actions and is willing to continue acting even if people asked him to stop and discuss it. The multiple findings ArbCom may agree on (see above) serve to enforce that he has gone too far in ignoring the rules, to a point where there was no benefit for the project in doing so. Regards So Why 08:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Because ArbCom agrees about something does not necessarily make it correct. I don't think anyone (let alone MZMcBride) would claim that he hasn't made mistakes; yet I believe it is difficult to make a case that his possesion of the admin bit is not a net positive to the project. I would expect opposers to make a good case for this. Black Kite 14:54, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I see no reason for ArbCom to lie (remember, those are findings of facts, not remedies) and anyone can read up on those facts at ANI and elsewhere. You argue that MZM's good contributions mean that he is allowed to make such mistakes so frequently and in such a manner. I (and other opposers) do not agree that someone is allowed to break the rules just because they do good work. Good contributions to the project are not a carte blanche to break rules as you see fit and cause trouble that is unneeded. As I pointed out above, another candidate that showed such a disregard for consensus and the community's opinion (like deleting pages while the community is discussing whether those pages are acceptable and continuing even while the community asked you to stop and discuss) would fail RFA miserably, no matter how good their contributions are for the project. Because I do not think it's good for the project if people get the impression that some admins are allowed to use their tools to break those rules everyone else has to follow. If people start thinking we treat admins better than we treat users, they will get fed up with the project and sooner or later leave it. MZM was investigated by ArbCom, he was previously admonished for breaking the rules and wheel-warring. And now we should just give him the tools back, before ArbCom had even time to issue a ruling and give the impression that the whole ArbCom case was just a huge farce and waste of time because we just believe when MZM tells us he will change - although we have countless examples that he has not taken previous advice and concerns to heart in the past. I doubt anyone can honestly claim that MZM wasn't told time and time again to change his behavior. I see those previous times and I hear his assurance that he has changed. You believe he has and support. I do not believe him, not at the moment at least, before he had really time to prove it and so I oppose. The issue really boils down to whether one trusts him to have learned from his mistakes in the past month, when he has not in the previous years. Regards So Why 16:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Er, no - "Findings of Fact" is a misnomer - if they were obviously facts there would be no need for ArbCom to vote on them. And even if ArbCom does vote to adopt them, that still doesn't make them facts - it only means that a majority of Arbs agree on them. They're still only opinions, though. I am not suggesting that ArbCom are "lying", only that they may have reached a decision that would not be supported by the majority of the community. Even if this RfA fails, it will be a useful sounding board as to just how much support the ArbCom decision (which of course is not very visible to the community) actually has. It may be that the community supports the ArbCom decision - and if so, that at least shows that ArbCom is being clueful. Black Kite 16:29, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This very self-nomination demonstrates a "lapse of judgement", it's way too early, it will inevitably be interpreted as a provocation by a significant number of editors, unnecessarily stirring up drama. Shame, because this is such a gifted and clever Wikipedian. Needs to unlearn some behavioural traits though, less strong-headed and more consensus seeking. Actions would speak louder than words in this respect, and this is why this RfA is far too premature. Power.corrupts (talk) 07:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. To post a new RFA just days after the ArbCom were about to desysop for misuse of the tools (then altered to conform to a voluntary desysop) is way too soon. Heavy-handed use of the deletion button is not a lightwight issue. Moreover, I recall his close of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Antisemitic incidents alleged to be related to the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict as a remarkably bad one, where his closing statement just thrust up an "AFD is not a vote!" shield and gave no hint as to why he found one side more convincing. It appeared to me that he was closing it according to his own personal wishes, rather than to reflect the will of the community, and admins are not supposed to use their admin tools in that manner. Use of the admin tools must be used dispassionately and impartially, and that can involve closing a discussion with a result contrary to your own preference, or, if you don't like that, you should state your opinion like anyone else, and let another administrator handle the administrative parts of it. Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:59, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"...I recall...his closing statement...gave no hint..." - Did you at that time, as is customary when concerned about a closure, ask him to clarify the closure? - jc37 08:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
See Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2009 February 4. See also his talkpage. I myself did not ask him personally, but someone else did. Sjakkalle (Check!) 08:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The DRV is interesting to say the least. A result of "no consensus" at a page which is supposed to be a forum for cloture, is surprising. (Especially since, if the DRV determines that there was no consensus in the original AfD - presuming that's what the DRV closure was saying - typically that means that the article should be relisted for further discussion, not "kept".) So I don't know if these set of discussions (the afd and drv) would be the best "poster child" for opposition.

As for his talk page, he came across perhaps a bit more "jovial" than perhaps the user understood, and when he noticed (which seems clear in the text), he changed tone. I don't see a problem there except that perhaps he was only noting the broader policy of WP:NOT, and not the several other policy and guidelines pages that might have applied more directly. If you're suggesting that he fell into the pitfall that many of us who've been around for a bit, in presuming that everyone else knows the policies and process as well as we do, then I won't oppose that assertion. Though I try to avoid it, I've been there myself on more than one occasion. - jc37 08:34, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the points explained by SoWhy above. MZMcBride is one of the most arbitrary, abusive and uncommunicative admins I know. I do not trust him in the slightest. — Aitias // discussion 09:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Don't mince your words now! :D GARDEN 09:50, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I suppose you'd know all about that. Black Kite 12:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
What's your new account name Aitias? Majorly talk 14:04, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This practice of returning just to oppose people you dislike is tiresome. The points you just raised about MZMcBride could equally apply to your behavior over the last few months, Aitias. Acalamari 15:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't RfA or RfC Aitias. Your admonishments are better served at his talk page, so as not to distract from the core issue here.--Tznkai (talk) 15:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There is an unfortunate residue of careless judgment in the events leading up to this RfA and melodramatic immaturity in the actual production. I am sorry, but I cannot support this RfA. Pastor Theo (talk) 10:42, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but no, not yet. You just asked on your user page for constructive criticism not two days ago. I was actually going to write something there, but it seems pretty moot now. Why did you do that if you were going to run for admin again immediately after you resigned? Why did you not wait for the arbitration case concerning you to finish first? Quite honestly, I think this has been your problem all along: You rush things. You delete "secret" pages in the middle of a discussion about them, you delete talk page redirects with no incoming links without asking about any drawbacks that that might have (people had to find out the hard way). So no, I'd like to see you become more aware of your actions first before I support you for adminship. I'd like you to stick to the rules for a while, even if you don't agree with them. Yes, there are backlogs, and I'm actually willing to fully support any admin bot of yours that you will submit to BRFA (assuming the submitted task needs to be done, of course). I'm also willing to block it immediately as soon as it does something it was not approved to do. :) --Conti|✉ 11:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
strongest possible oppose you resigned your adminship barely 2 days ago, doing so before it could be removed forcibly by arbcom. Hence this timing is atrocious. Take time off, try the non admin life for a while, and in a coupl of months I would be most happy to support. Viridae ^Talk 11:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - while my interactions with Mzm have been limited, the reasoning above by editors I trust sways me. Resigning the bit voluntarily and a few days later showing up at RfA (while still in the midst of the ArbCom case) seems telling. --Der Wohltempierte Fuchs^(talk) 12:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose. You gave up your admin rights on April 6 and then nominate yourself for adminship on April 8? Um, no. Why did you resign? Now is definitely not the time. And if this RFA actually passes, it would only encourage future admins who are up for desysopping by Arbcom in active arbitration cases to game the system in a similar manner. --Pixelface (talk) 12:22, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to reply to this, but Deacon's reply to Caspian below at 06:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC) says it better than I would have. –xeno (talk) 12:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Too stubborn in your mistakes, not sufficiently willing to accept consensus when you disagree. Your admonishment in the Sarah Palin protection wheel war case last fall also weighs on me, in addition to the deletion and bot policy violations previously discussed. GRBerry 12:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Although I enjoy interacting with you and think you've made a lot of valuable contributions, I think it is too soon to ask for adminship back. At least wait for the case to close, please. Also I do have some concerns along the lines of those GRBerry outlines, I think some time away from adminship might be helpful. ++Lar: t/c 12:49, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Of the above Conti is closest to my thoughts here.--Cube lurker (talk) 13:35, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I don't often contribute to RfA Discussions, but I feel too strongly about this user to do otherwise. In the events leading up to his current ArbCom case, this user has shown extremely poor judgement, a disregard for the wishes of the community and disdain for his fellow editors. Perhaps, with more time, he will demonstrate that he deserves the community's trust again, but he's not there yet. Nutiketaiel (talk) 14:22, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. Too much of a continuing theme of rashness and rush to action to fully trust with the deletion button at the present time (the timing of this self-nom is a case in point). Can easily see myself supporting once all the dust has settled and when it is clear MZM's modus operandi has moderated. Martinp (talk) 15:04, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I have never bought the "but he does good work" argument. Nobody is impossible to replace, nobody. You may in fact, do a lot of good work, but the baggage that you bring just isn't worth it. If as you say, you are willing to change, then give it some time (months, not days), and show us you are. Then I'll support. --Kbdank71 15:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There is a startling lack of people willing to do any work at all on the BLP problem. See for example the discussion here, where people are asserting that the only way to fix the problem is for the people who want to do anything about it to source all 30,000 or so unsourced BLPs by themselves, as most people seem to be fine with 1 in 10 BLPs not having any sources. Some even go as far to say that the problem is "nonexistent" or "imaginary." Mr.Z-man 15:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Are you saying that the only people that can work on the BLP problem are admins? --Kbdank71 16:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Regretfully oppose, but hope to support in the future. Yes, MZMB does good work. And the majority of the communications I've seen have been polite and helpful, a model of what an admin should be. But the whole page deletion thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. Not the initial deletions, but the fact that MZMB continued to delete them by the bucketful after it should have been blindingly obvious that this was controversial and needed to be discussed. I hope MZMB has learned from this, but there just hasn't been enough time to see any evidence one way or the other.--Fabrictramp | talk to me 15:15, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the actual "secret pages" incident was nearly 2 months ago by now (I presume those are the "pages" you refer to). Mr.Z-man 15:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So? --Conti|✉ 15:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The secret pages deletions were serious enough that, before MzMcbride resigned, ArbCom had effectively already decided to take his tools away whether he liked it or not. I feel the same sort of way as they do; that this was a massive, massive lapse of judgement. The disdain he showed to other users, the refusal to deal with the issue when it came up (instead prefering to simply continue deleting pages), the Santer-esque resignation (jumping before he was pushed, essentially) are not conductive to a good editing environment and do not show an administrator with the necessary judgement, imo, to continue or be renewed. He was a good administrator, and he might well be at some point in the future. But his conduct over the past few weeks/months is such that at the moment he would be godawful. Past good conduct is not an excuse for current misconduct. If you've changed and accept you were wrong, fine; come back when we've got evidence of that in the form of diffs. The fact that this occurred after you were reprimanded in another ArbCom case suggests that such changes may be a long time coming. I've used up my italics quota for the day. Ironholds (talk) 15:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Since the majority of the "issues" were based on supposed "misuse" of the delete capability, how do you propose that a non-admin proves that they will not misuse an ability that they do not have? Black Kite 15:42, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Viridae, Fabrictramp and Ironholds. Come on, getting rid of the mop and then wanting it back 48 hours later? Are you serious? Channel R 15:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Call it a reconfirmation vote. It certainly shows his subservience to the community. How can that be a bad thing? --Hammersoft (talk) 15:46, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see subservience, I see somebody who continues to delete pages by the dozen while he's been told not to do so. That's arrogance in my book. Even if those deletions were with "tabbed browsing" (as said on the ArbCom page) it still is a very bad idea to say the least. I expect a lot more clue from an admin. Channel R 16:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Per Conti. Mike R (talk) 15:41, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely not - per everyone above, really, but especially this: to resign your bit inches ahead of ArbCom removing it from you (that resolution passed with a majority of 8 several days ago) and then immediately request it back looks like evasion of said decision. Come back in six months. //roux 16:00, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So you're saying the project is better off with MZMcBride having the tools... but not for 6 months? The arbitration committee stated that "Any request by MZMcBride for restoration of adminship privileges will require either a new request for adminship or the approval of this Committee." Sooooo... he's asking for them back by an ArbCom approved way. How is that evading "said decision"? Not making sense, I'm afraid. Mahalo. --Ali'i 16:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You do realize that until now there is not ArbCom decision, just proposals? So Why 16:12, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but remedy 1.4 is passing 13-0, soooooo... not too doubtful of its passage. --Ali'i 16:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"You're fired"

"You can't fire me, I quit!"

...

"Can I have my job back?"

//roux 16:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
More along the lines of: "We're thinking about firing you." "I quit." "Oh, well then. If you want your job back, you'll have to ask for it." ... "May I have my job back?" Enter villagers with their torches. "How DARE you ask for something you were told to ask for!?!?1?" Fin. --Ali'i 16:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I'm in agreement with what Roux said. Tim meh ! 16:04, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Now? Ouch, that's a rash act. Relax. I would be glad to consider support if you ran a bit later, say in a few month's time. - Mailer Diablo 16:07, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I don't think that MZMcBride acted in bad faith or that he is untrustworthy. I'd also like to say that MZMcBride has done a lot of good for the wiki, but that's not quite the point here. I think there are a few things to throw out here. First of all, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Even if you do what you think is right and helpful, you can really screw up when you start to ignore consensus. That is one of the things that happened here. Second, "power corrupts". MZMcBride admits that after a few years on the site, he thought he knew best and could just do what he felt was right. That's not how it works. If we support here today, it's a de facto way of saying that he didn't really do anything wrong, and that's not the case. Third, I'd like to put forward a baseball analogy. If the coach tells you to bunt, but you swing for the seats, you're going to get benched even if you hit the game-winning homer. It's just not acceptable to use your own judgment when it goes against what you should be doing, and in this case MZMcBride didn't hit the game winning homer, he grounded into a double play, so any baseball manager would be absolutely livid. Finally, coming here so soon shows that MZMcBride believes that he didn't really do anything wrong. Sure, mistakes were made, but coming to RfA more or less immediately means that he downgrades the seriousness of what he did wrong (and in my opinion, there may even be an attempt here to undermine the ArbCom). So, to fill out the baseball metaphor, I think he'd do well to "ride some pine" for a couple of months before coming back here. Cool3 (talk) 16:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Like I asked roux above, the ArbCom stated, "Any request by MZMcBride for restoration of adminship privileges will require either a new request for adminship or the approval of this Committee." So he is asking for the tools back in an ArbCom directed way. How is it undermining them if he's following their direction? Mahalo. --Ali'i 16:13, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral

Neutral, MZMcBride, I'm very startled, didn't you resign from your adminship just one and half day ago? If you request it two or three month later, I would support you, but this request looks like you're striking against ArBCom's decision.--Caspian blue 06:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The ArbCom made it very clear they'd be happy if MZMcBride regained adminship through RfA. Resigning to voluntarily resit an RfA is a sign of good faith. Particularly good-willed, one should remember, is that MZMcBride chose to risk an RfA when it is relatively clear from the wording that he could regain adminship by going straight to the committee in a little while. This aside, it should also be remembered how much work will be lost through his lack of adminship. A three month wait would be a great loss, and if he's already learned the lesson, then what's the point? Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 06:43, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A period of one and half day (+ 7 days for the running) seems to me too short to regain his tool. --Caspian blue 06:49, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
further discussion relocated to talk page. So Why 09:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Technically, the committee has not yet removed his adminship. I cannot fathom why he resigned and then ran for RFA all before the case even closed. Cool Hand Luke 13:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
While I have great respect for MZ's tireless maintenance work which has been of significant benefit to the site, I have always found that he has a tendency to act impulsively at times. Adding the fact that MZ resigned only a short time ago and is already back at RfA, especially while the whole arbcom drama is ongoing, I have some reservations that prevent me from supporting. I just think it's a bad time to be here. Master&Expert (Talk) 07:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is one i have to spend some time pondering. No doubt he's done an enormous amount of good work, but there's also little doubt in my mind he's done a lot of damage. I have to try to balance to two, and include his answers to questions and future questions. --Ged UK 08:29, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 140: / Line 140: @@
 #'''Strong support''' - very nice, very reasonable, I could go on and on. I see no reason to believe that MZMcBride would repeat any past mistakes. [[User:Inferno, Lord of Penguins|Inferno, Lord of Penguins]] ([[User talk:Inferno, Lord of Penguins|talk]]) 16:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 #'''Support''' Whatever the arbcom outcome, I believe that MZMMcBride was acting in the best interests of wikipedia and will continue to do so. --[[User:RegentsPark|RegentsPark]] <small>([[User talk:RegentsPark|My narrowboat]])</small> 16:31, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
+#'''Strong support''' Yes, he's a bastard, but I have a record of voting for people who're bastards.  Besides, he's a nice bastard, with a knowledge of the wiki, and a net positive to the project. He's certainly shown that he's learned from his mistakes, and the answers to the questions he generated were really the thing that assured my support. I'll admit, I've argued with him before, and I'm quite sure that I'll argue with him again. But that doesn't change my vote. --[[User:Neskaya|Neskaya]] [[wikt:User talk:Neskaya|<sup>''kanetsv?''</sup>]] 16:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
 =====Oppose=====