User talk:Rjanag

Click here to leave me a message saying I'm great, or here to leave me a message saying I'm terrible.
Click here to leave me any other kind of message.
Please sign your message by typing ~~~~ after it.

Archives

1: August–October 2008 2: November 2008 3: December 2008 4: January–February 2009 5: March–April 2009 6: May–July 2009 7: August–December 2009 8: January–May 2010 9: June 2010 – present

Tony Hollingsworth

Dear Rjanag

I have noticed that you have reversed a number of changes that I made a few days ago to the entry for Tony Hollingsworth. The explanation for many of the reversals is, I gather, that I have used “peacock” terms that do not actually add any information. Having spent nearly 30 years as a professional journalist, working for titles such as the Financial Times, The Guardian and The Wall Street Journal, I also have a certain antipathy to this kind of wrtiting. But I would argue that this term in not applicable in these instances.

It seems to me that there is a very large difference between organising a live music concert and organising the types of global cause-related campaigns that are being described here, and hence in the roles and responsibilities of the person in charge.

The first instance involves assessing the likely live demand for a particular performer, booking them into an appropriate venue, providing a certain amount of advertising and then selling at most a few thousand tickets (which is not easy).

The second requires all of the same skills but a lot of others on top. It involves starting with the cause one is trying to promote – such as the end of the apartheid regime in South Africa or helping the world’s disadvantaged children – and then designing a campaign to achieve this.

This means not only coming up with the original concept, but also working with all of the worldwide media outlets involved – television, radio, web, mobile and print – to design a campaign that will maximise coverage including a television audience of several hundred million people. Plus working with sponsors, advertisers, film and television rights buyers and venue promotors to raise the finance to achieve this. So while the campaign might culminate in a live event which forms the basis of a global broadcast event, this live event forms only a small part of the process. And the arrangement of the particular artists who are taking part in the event actually comes quite late in the day, rather than at the beginning.

It is quite clear from Tony Hollingsworth’s biography that while he started his career organising the first type of activity, he has spent the last 20 years on the second, and it is appropriate that he should be described as such.

The above also illustrates why it is so important to make clear that it was Hollingsworth who “conceived, finance and produced” the first Mandela event, as was indeed the case. If these words do not appear, then who did conceive, finance and produce this event? The article does not say. The implication that is left is that it must somehow have been a combination of the ANC and the Anti-Apartheid Movement, and the Hollingsworth was merely commissioned to do the work. Indeed, many people have in subsequent years drawn exactly this erroneous conclusion. The fact that it is untrue is quite clear from the referenced statements from those involved at the time.

I do not understand why you have reversed my attempt to reorder the four events in bullet points. I was merely putting these into the correct chronological order – The Wall (1990), Guitar Legends (1991), The Great Music Experience (1994) and Moscow (1997). Why is the present (and reinstated) order preferable to this?

All the best

Wireless1917

Wireless1917 (talk) 11:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Apologies, I'm in a hurry right now and won't have time to look at this more closely until this evening. I'll try to leave you a better response then. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 12:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear Rjanag

Have you had a chance to have a further look at this?

Best

Wireless1917 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wireless1917 (talk • contribs) 16:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Wireless, sorry it's taken me a while to respond. I've looked at what you said and, honestly, I still feel pretty much the same way. No matter what the difference is between what Hollingsworth does and general event organizing, his job description still seems to be organizing live events. Events that are related to other causes, perhaps, but it's still event organizing (and as far as I can tell, he is not the head of these global campaigns, he is just the person hired to organize the events for them). Somewhere down in the article it can be mentioned that the events he organizes are linked to global campaigns, but in the first sentence, which is meant to give a simple and clear description, just the basics should be mentioned.

The main thing, again, is writing style. If you write a sentence like "is one of the key world figures...", and throwing around words like "renowned" and "landmark", especially without providing any sources for why these things are apparently so great, no one is going to even give you the benefit of the doubt—no one will look past poor writing to see the real content of the article. So the important thing is to worry about neutral tone first, and avoiding peacock words; you can try to work in more details then, but neutrality needs to be in the front of your mind.

Anyway, feel free to seek out a second opinion if you don't think I am evaluating this correctly. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 14:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear Rjanag

Thanks for this.

This is exactly the point. In most cases he IS the head of the global campaign. Look at my comment above about the first Mandela initiative. Hollingsworth conceived the whole campaign, arranged the finance and then produced it (and I mean the whole campaign and not just the live event at the end). He wasnt "hired" by anyone, as the references from the ANC and the AAM make clear. They benefitted from the campaign in lots of ways. But it wasnt their idea and they didnt pay anything towards it.

Best regards

Wireless1917

Wireless1917 (talk) 06:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear Rjanag

Further to the final sentence above, far from being paid by the ANC and the AAM, Tony Hollingsworth was able to use the surplus from the campaign he had conceived and organised to pay US$5 million to six Southern African charities selected by Archbishop Trevor Huddleston, who at the time was president of the AAM. The figure is mentioned in Mike Terry's letter of 18th January 2003 which is referenced in Peter Elman's article.

Best regards

Wireless1917

Wireless1917 (talk) 12:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Idk

Your "hidden comment" on Idk has given me an idea. What you have done is, IMHO, much better done via edit comments. And I did something very similar with a different group of pages a while back. Check out Girlfriend, and then click Edit, for an example of these in use. Then check out Template:Editnotices/Girlfriend and Template:Romeo notice for the guts of the notices. I'm thinking something similar could/should be done with your notice as a starting point. Set up a central template for the actual text (like Romeo Notice), and then install the template as a notice on any slang wiktionary soft redirect that regularly gets dicdefs added. Will this stop them, no. But any wanna-be dicdef adder who sees it and stops is one less revert that we have to do. - TexasAndroid (talk) 14:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

That's a good idea, although I don't know if it will change things...the article is short enough that a hidden comment is no more or less visible than an editnotice. And, to be honest, I think problem edits to IDK are probably not as frequent as to Girlfriend, or as serious (since it's probably not a page people look up as often), so I'm not sure an editnotice is necessary where reverts will do. If it does become bad, we could semi-protect the page; I don't think that would harm the encyclopedia, since it's a page that's pretty much never (at least in the foreseeable future) gonna have any valid possibility for expansion anyway, so the only thing we'd be preventing is bad edits, not good ones. Basically, I'm not sure there's a need to create a new editnotice page (although, granted, we're not supposed to worry about performance) when other tools available to us would do. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 14:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Lists of Chinese prisons

Hi Rjanag,

these lists deserve notes on the prisons. Could you please tell whether you will add them or how I should add them? Kind regards, Sarcelles (talk) 17:44, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean List of re-education through labor camps in China? Adding notes is pretty easy (there's already a Notes column), it's just a matter of deciding what specifically deserves to be included. The Laogai handbook has different sorts of notes for different RTLs, depending on who collected the data in a given region (some entries say how many people are estimated to be in the RTL, some say what that RTL produces, some say how many police are there, some give its history, others give nothing), but this article should have some sort of standards (ie, it shouldn't just be an indiscriminate collection of data). Furthermore, simply copying all the "notes" in the Laogai handbook is not desirable, because it brings up concerns of copyright (which, to be honest, I'm already a little worried about....the article as it stands is basically a reproduction, in MediaWiki format, of the Laogai Research Foundation's work). Anyway, if you can give me a little more information on what sort of "notes" you want to see added, I can think about what should be done. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 20:23, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I mean the lists in Category:Prisons in China, that should be made similar to the List of re-education through labor camps in China. Sarcelles (talk) 20:33, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I see what you mean. The lists can be note-ified the same way I did for the RTL list (you can even copy and paste the same formatting, if you want, to make similar tables); all the information is available in the 2007–2008 Laogai Handbook, which you can access from the sources list on the RTL list. To be perfectly honest, I have no intention of doing this for the lists of prisons, because it's not something I'm interested in (I'm very interested in the general topic of China's penal system, but specifically listing the prisons is not something that excites me) and I'm still doubtful about whether or not reproducing the LRF's work like this is right. In fact, if I had to make a decision now, I would be half-tempted to AfD all the prison lists now as sort-of-copyvio, and instead place a link to the Laogai Handbook somewhere within the Penal system in the People's Republic of China and sub-articles. I probably won't actually go through with that, but it's just a thought (and an illustration of why I don't see myself working on these articles anytime in the forseeable future). Sorry, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 20:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

You are so great

You are a great guy! Thanks for being so excellent. Weatherlover819 (talk) 06:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for sending me a wiki-birthday cake. Weatherlover819 (talk) 06:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Empire of Japan navbox

Just created Template:JapanEmpireNavbox to aid in the navigation of Empire of Japan related articles. Please check for inconsistencies and add contributions of your own. Thanks. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 09:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Invitation

I hope you'll be taking part in Bacon Challenge 2009 user:ChildofMidnight/Baconchallenge2009. ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

RfA Thanks

Thank you for participating in my recent RfA, which was unable pass with a final tally of (45/39/9). I plan on addressing the concerns raised and working to improve in the next several months. Hopefully, if/when I have another RfA I will win your support. Special thanks go to MBisanz, GT5162, and MC10 for nominating me. Thanks again, -download ׀ sign! 01:27, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Rjanag. You have new messages at LinguistAtLarge's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

— LinguistAtLarge • Talk  18:21, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with bacon

I finally found an article subject that you are passionate and determined about. If only I had had had had had had had had had had known sooner, I would have tortured you with it earlier. I think it should be merged to word games or word usage. Or maybe transwikied? Gosh this is fun. :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:13, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Street newspaper

Congrats on main page! Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 00:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Help from you and the other editors who worked on it has been invaluable. It feels like it's been a long time since I started working on that article, but looking back it's actually just been about three months...time flies when you're having fun. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I just looked at the article stats: you have 149 edits, I have 72, someone has 9 and everyone else has fewer. Regards, —Mattisse (Talk) 01:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

re: street newspaper -- nice work, all! This is a lovely article on a fascinating topic, kept my attention fully. I recognize the picture of the Real Change (Seattle) vendor; he used to sell outside my neighborhood grocery :) -- phoebe / (talk to me) 05:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Would you care to provide some input into the discussion about alternative meanings of the term "Street newspaper" on the talk page, seeing as you've reverted the edits in the article? Commander Zulu (talk) 05:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome

Am I supposed to reply here or on my user talk? If there, then I replied here: User talk:Essetra. (How does one make the display different from the link?) Essetra (talk) 02:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess I'll take up the habit of sticking to others' talk pages right now. About the FA stuff: That's a lot to swallow, but I think I understand. Looking at your articles, it seems there are some pretty high standards. Those superscript references are interesting; are they mandatory? Essetra (talk) 02:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

All right; I'll find something that interests me. Thanks for all your help! Essetra (talk) 02:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

3rr warning

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on South Korea. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. rʨanaɢ ^{Cherry Blossom OK (talk) 06:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)}

and i'm not violate 3rr rule, techniclally. [1] this is not revert. this is development of article. Cherry Blossom OK (talk) 06:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

According to WP:LEDE.

• The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article. It should establish context, explain why the subject is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points—including any notable controversies.
• Opening paragraph

The first paragraph of the introductory text needs to unambiguously define the topic for the reader. It should establish the context in which the topic is being considered, by supplying the set of circumstances or facts that surround it. If appropriate, give the location and time context. Also, establish the boundaries of the content of the article (for example List of environmental issues is only about the effects of human activity).

According to WP:LEDE, it is not porper that remove current status info, and filled history section. i already said, history section is duplicated information. Cherry Blossom OK (talk) 06:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

not all users support its claim. baeksu is not spport your claim. and it is not a proper reason that its sourced material must be deleted. Cherry Blossom OK (talk) 06:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Please keep the discussion at Talk:South Korea. As for the 3RR warning, yes, [2] was a revert, you simply restored an earlier version of the article and moved a paragraph around a bit. And finally, Baeksu specifically said on the talk page that he liked Mtd2006's original edit, which you have been reverting. As for "duplicated information," the lede section is supposed to duplicate information that appears later in the article; it's meant to be a summary of the main points, and History is one of the main points in the article. And finally, here's another user who doesn't agree with your changes. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 06:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikibirthday

Thanks for the birthday wishes. I will do my very best to live up to the ideals of Wikipedia in the years to come. Davidelit (talk) 14:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for editing my user page, and helping me learn a bit more about IPA and phonology. It is appreciated :-) 나비Fly ^Talk/_{Contributions} 09:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

N100 typos

Sorry I got rather tied and English is not my best skill.

• Under Types it is peak.
• Under Stimulus repetition, It should read something like "This effect links to intelligence AS THE REDUCTION IN N100 WITH SELF CONTROL OCCURS MOST STRONGLY IN those with greater intelligence." --LittleHow (talk) 14:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Smelly socks

I guess it is time for you to SPI file on the old friend living in London. Wondergirls = 86.148.181.54 = the returned editor.--Caspian blue 15:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I left a message with Nishkid64, who blocked the last iteration of the Wondergirls/Ziggymaster sock. Pds0101 looks pretty likely to be another sock, but I figured it's easiest just to get in touch with Nishkid or another blocking admin one-on-one, rather than go through the trouble and red tape of SPI. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 15:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Rajasaurus

Hi! Rjanag,

May I request you to please revisit the above article to review the tag, since another expert on the subject has edited it?--Nvvchar (talk) 09:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Pencak Silat

Response to User_talk:DavidDCM#Copyvio.

Hello Rjanag,

thank you for your response! At first I just noticed that the "terminology" paragraph was a 1:1 copypaste of one of the essays I linked to in my deletion request. But when digging further into the article I realized that almost every paragraph was at least partially copypasted from the various sources. Your suggestion to go through the article step-by-step also came to my mind, but that would be extremely time-consuming because of the length of the article and the vast number of potential sources. Thus I thought it might be more efficient to delete the thing and let it start it all over again. Nonetheless I'll follow your administratorial rule, and as a first step remove the obvious copyvio paragraphs. --DavidDCM (talk) 15:56, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Rjanag,

I tried to do as you said, and went through the article step by step. I discovered that the vast majority of it is copyrighted material, so I put it into articles for deletion despite your advice. If you want, you can read my (pretty long) reasoning in the deletion discussion --DavidDCM (talk) 11:00, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Bigflavor

Rjanag,

I had created the image, which was posted on 4chan.org. It is arguable that the work from which it was derived (the background image) is, in fact, copyrighted. Since, I can not gain clearance on that, I suppose it is fact that I can not claim copyleft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigflavor (talk • contribs) 21:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

User:Dalejenkins

Is there anything that can and should be done about User:Dalejenkins signature and about his habit of erasing his talk page after every comment? -- SGBailey (talk) 07:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm watching his contribs, and the moment he signs another talkpage with that sig I'm going to start a thread at ANI. That's something he won't be able to ignore. I feel a little bad that we have to treat him like a child this way, but he has ignored all three of our attempts to talk to him like an adult. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 14:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

DYKHousekeepingBot

To keep up the DYK RfA trend, I've started a (B)RfA for DYKHousekeepingBot :P The code's all written and it could start running as soon as it's approved. It relies on your handy template for the file tagging, so when you're ready, we can move it to template namespace. The bot worked very well on a dry run, creating usable archives and a table for WP:DYKSTATS from the page hits. I learned a bit of the history of DYK too – here is the first bot edit to update DYK! Shubinator (talk) 14:58, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

3RR WARNING

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on South Korea. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. If necessary, pursue dispute resolution. Meandmylefthand (talk) 15:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm, a user with 3 edits before this one. How odd. And pretending to be a rollbacker to boot. Shubinator (talk) 15:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I will report you to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring if you do one more revert within 24 hours. Thanks. Meandmylefthand (talk) 15:20, 17 May 2009 (UTC)