Talk:Hogwarts

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January 2003 – August 2006

Style

With the exception of the introductory paragraph, the entire article is written "in universe" style. There's no component of the article that talks about the subject's literary aspect. For example, the name "Hogwarts Academy" is taken from the Thomas Wolfe novel "The Hills Beyond." Moreover, the role of a boarding school in coming of age novels has a long historical tradition, and this example is meaningful in many ways. There's an immense amount of fictional information here, which is fine, but not nearly enough information that is outside of the fictional realm. 75.9.168.191 (talk) 01:29, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Spoiler Alert

"The climactic battle of the book, and the series, however, is set at Hogwarts."

I'd go easy on that bit of information so high up in the article. At least for another few weeks.--Pittsburghmuggle 03:21, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Distance learning?

Which ancillary staff member used this method? The textual basis for this statement should be specified or it should be removed. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 20:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry - missed the question here. Answered on in the article yesterday. In Chamber of Secrets (ch. 8), Harry discovers Argus Filch the Caretaker was attempting to study KWIKSPELL - A Correspondence Course in Beginners' Magic. --T-dot 01:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Link to Hogwarts layout

Shouldn't there be a link to Hogwarts layout somewhere within the article? 70.50.174.238 14:57, 12 August 2006 (UTC) HOGWARTS IS A FAKE. ITS NOT REAL.

THANK YOU - I was just trying to find that other Hogwarts article yesterday to link a classroom to an article. Consider it Done. --T-dot 15:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The website http://www.oddment-tweak.com features architectural models and floorplans which adhere precisely to the textual information about Hogwarts.--Harper09 22:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

British spelling

The rest of Wikipedia consistently uses the American spealling, so why are we suddenly using the British spelling here? E946 16:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not consistently use American English. Wikipedia has clearly stated guidelines on which styles of English should be used within the Manual of style. Therefore as Harry Potter is set in Britain written by a British author and originally published in Britain, the appropriate language style for Harry Potter articles is British English. Hope that helped, regards. Death Eater Dan (Muahaha) 17:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Though my dictionary says that "enrolment" is a British spelling of "enrollment," I asked two British friends who both said it was "enrollment," so case closed. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 22:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

ROFL, whilst I'm not really bothered over the enrolment/enrollment issue I find it very funny that on the say so of 2 'experts' that it is case closed. I'm sure that all the compilers of British dictionaries will be most agrieved to know that they are all wrong, according to 2 British friends, i'll look for thier corrected entries in the next editions. Death Eater Dan (Muahaha) 22:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Haha, I'm reading that back and feeling a bit stupid right now… what I tried to say but failed rather amusingly was that "enrolment" was listed as a British spelling of "enrollment." To find out which usage was more common, I asked around some Brits I know and they opted for double Ls. Dictionaries don't always go with the popular vote, they list all the possibilities. So… seems like the anon who was persisiting in it has gone away anyway, so what the hell. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 01:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Lol no probs, must admit it made me giggle. But like I said i'm not overly bothered by the enrolment/enrollment issue because as far as British/American spelling issues go its a very minor one due to both versions being in general use here in Britain. Death Eater Dan (Muahaha) 01:43, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

We should at least be consistent. If "enrollment" has been decided upon, I'm changing it in the info box to match. 70.53.0.122 16:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Which dictionary did you check? "Enrolment" is the British English spelling. Verbs ending in "l" double the "l" before a vowel (c.f. traveller) but not before a consonant; "fulfilment" is another example. I'm afraid that when it comes to doubled letters, asking the man on the street is not a reliable substitute for a good dictionary; if you ask ten random people to spell "accommodation" you will probably find many of them get it wrong, but "accommodation" is still the only acceptable spelling of the word in formal written English. 84.70.141.228 15:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

In further support of "enrolment" (and "enrol") being the British spellings: American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#Altered_roots

From my rather non-British (or non-English, as a friend of mine from there would attest), I believe that in a situation of grammatical dispute, we ought to look at the author's preferred (or is it "prefered", haha?) usage. After all, since British dictionaries list both as acceptable, it's really artistic license which should decide, given that that's what's defining the article's spelling norms anyway. T.J. Fuller, Jr. 01:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Have to back up T.J. Fuller here. Enrolment is the only accepted spelling, as a quick dip in the OED confirms.User:cmsg

I've been reverting this for the past three months to one "l". People ain't listening. Daggoth | Talk 01:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I just reverted an American I.P.'s address change of 'enrolment' to 'enrollment' despite the explicit warning in the edit page... *sighs* Please guys, British related article = British spelling. Scarian^Talk 16:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

If you all are so keen on having enrollment spelled in the British way, then why don't you change the entire article to British spelling? The word 'color' is used in the article and it's spelled in the American way. Having just one word spelled differently looks out of place and throws the reader off, so either do it all the way or don't do it at all. *EDIT: I would change the rest of the article to UK English myself, but I am American so I don't want to change things to UK English for fear of doing it completley wrong.*—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.227.133.155 (talk) 18:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite

After seeing the disorganized state of the current article, I decided that it would be a good idea to completely rewrite this article. I set up a user subpage to edit behind the scenes. i'm more or less done, and I want to make sure nobody has a problem with it before I make the change (Which is why I put in the template)

There's only a few issues right now, including:

• Bad introduction
• Bad layout and grounds section

The new article can be found here. Please make any changes you want. In a week, I'll copy everything over to this article if nobody has any major objections.

E946 08:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

E946, if you don't mind, I'm going to make a few changes to your draft. You can of course revert or change them as you like, they're just things which were recently added to the article which are not present. Good work! --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 13:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Something to consider rewriting this article: I think that Wikipedia policy only allows one screenshot on a page, but the draft currently has 3. I haven't seen this anywhere except as a note above the screenshots section under "licensing" on the upload page, and I'm not sure if this is a matter of copyright or of style. Also, I added a link to the WikiProject talk page to alert the community. Should the rewriting be noted anywhere else? -Phi*n!x 02:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard that, actually. I just saw a good picture of the sorting hat in another article so I added it. Where can we go to ask if it's okay? E946 05:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe has at least five screenshots or so. I don't know, though, if it's closely monitored. I think, if you go by the reasoning that it's to help illustrate the topic in question, it's considered fair use. The Sorting Hat, then, is fine, because you want to illustrate the Sorting ceremony. To ask, you should probably try the Village pump (technical). --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 13:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

You can to User talk:QuarterZ#Images. This user wanted User:AndyZ to upload an image of Snape (He didn't know how to at a time) and Andy didn't want to because there were to many screenshots there. Another one is the history of Ron Weasley where User:T-dot removed screenshots so there was very little and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (film). Any articles having 2 or more screenshots; one needs to be removed. You can see WP:FUC for the violation rule. Carmelapple 14:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

From what I see, WP:FUC doesn't specifically say that there should be only one screenshot, but that unfree images should be as limited as possible (rule #3). I agree that the ways the images are being used on the Hogwarts draft are fine and legal, but I am curious if we can figure out what's up with the policy. (On a side note, the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe page has eight screenshots and I have suggested on its talk page that this be changed.) Also, I have posted this before on this talk page: wouldn't a Hogwarts blazon be an appropriate image for the article? I'll scan one from a Bloomsbury edition if I can get help with the fair use rationale. -Phi*n!x 17:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty much impossible to describe the blazon without a picture, you're not stopping them from selling any books, and you're not making a profit. There's your fair use. E946 09:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If nobody else has any problems with this, then i'll just change it over when I wake up later today. E946 09:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I really hate people who archive things which are eseentially active discussions, so I have restored the last section which had been archived. Sandpiper 17:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Other Schools

Out of curiosity, where does JKR say that the Salem witches institute is a school. The only hint we get from the books implies the Salem WI is exactly that, a branch of the womens Institute. I don't know if this existsin the US, but in the Uk this is essentially a club for adult qomen, traditionly hot on cooking, household interestes, and giving politicians a bad time. Sandpiper 18:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know entirely. I thought it was some character who were mentioned in passing at the QWC. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 22:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Rowling never says that it's a school. The only mention of it is in the chapter Bagman and Crouch in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: "...while a group of middle-aged American witches sat gossiping happily beneath a spangled banner stretched between their tents which read: Salem Witches' Institute." The HP Lexicon says that it is "possibly a school." I'd say that this isn't really enough to warrant its inclusion in this article. 67.68.139.97 00:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I rewrote it, saying that it is only possibly a school and that it has not been confirmed as one. 70.53.0.122 16:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Enrollment Book

Where does it say people may appear in this book any time up to age 11? I understood it to be a magical book which records every birth when it happens, though I have no idea where information about it comes from. Sandpiper 18:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I changed it. The facts were wrong. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 22:40, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Fees

I don't recall any mention of anyone paying fees to go to Hogwarts, so why do we suggest that there might be some. The only mention I recall is essentially if the school paying students, never the other way around. Sandpiper 18:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The topic of fees is brought up because fees are paid to go to some schools. For the sake of completeness, we have to mention that nothing is known about paying to go to Hogwarts. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 22:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

then I think it needs a rephrase since my reaction was that it casts doubt on whether maybe fees are paid.

AS far as I am aware, there is no mention of school fees at Hogwarts. There is, however, a sort of scholarship available for students who do not have enough money to pay for their books etc, as with Tom Riddle.

Hardship fund, rather than scholarship (as far as I am aware, a scholarship gives one free access to a fee-paying school). But since one would expect even a cursory mention of fees from the Weasleys, it is unlikely (but not impossible) that it is fee paying. Michaelsanders 12:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Ironically, that would make it a state (public for the Americans) school.Michaelsanders 12:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, considering the Ministry of Magic seems to have a certain amount of control over Hogwarts, it's probably not completely impossible for it to be considered at least a school of the wizarding state... Kmenzel 19:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

There are two mentions that come to mind for me. First, in PS, Uncle Vernon says he will not pay for some crackpot to teach Harry magic tricks, or something of that nature. Second, In ch.13 of HBP, the young Tom Riddle tells Dumbledore he hasn't got any money, and Dumbledore says that there is a fund at Hogwarts for those who require assistance to buy books and robes. Why the Weasleys didn't take advantage of this, I don't know. :P As for whether or not there is a fee for attending, I imagine there is, though I think those mentions are the closest we come to learning about it. faithless (^speak) 20:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Uniforms

I looked through this article and was quite perturbed to discover that the only mention of the students' uniforms is in the items contained in the acceptance letter to Hogwarts. I also was unable to find any other article about the Hogwarts uniforms. Was this merely an oversight of mine or is there truly no Wikipedia information about this subject? If so, can that please be rectified by a knowledgeable member? 70.107.96.220 20:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I think if you were to find anything on uniforms it'd be in this article. If you know any little bits on it, be bold and start a new section on the article, probably under "Student life," and contribute what you know. In the mean time, I'll do a little work and hope some other frequent editors of the page will do something, too. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 05:50, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Location used for filming?

It would be intersting to know which castle was used -- Lee Carré 08:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, List of places in the Harry Potter_books#Muggle locations used in the Harry Potter films has some info, should be a link from this article though, perhaps also adding the box at the bottom of the page for general Harry Potter navigation. -- Lee Carré 08:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I know that the set for the castle was based on a castle in UK, Oxford, I'm pretty sure. And, I think it's now it a university. I'll try to get the name of it. Timeroot (talk) 09:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Trivia

If anyone wants this in the article, it should be incorporated into the existing text, not in its own section. John Reaves 22:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

• The dinosaur Dracorex hogwartsia ("dragon king of Hogwarts"), first discovered in 2004 and officially named in 2006, was named such by young visitors to the Children's Museum of Indianapolis in reference to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.

Discipline

It is my understanding that prefects, in fact, DO NOT have the authority to dock points. The exception to this was when Malfoy was on the Inquisitorial Squad.

• This got posted by JK on her site and she said that prefects can dock points, Ron simply forgot.

• Didn't JK mention somewhere that prefects can not dock points from other prefects? (Ron was a prefect at that time.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.91.141.38 (talk) 18:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

A mention of the Black Lake, please

Hi. I was just editing Black Lake (Disambiguation) and Loch Shiel (Black Lake in the films), and I'm surprised to see that Black Lake isn't mentioned in Hogwarts. Can somebody please add? Thanks. -- 201.50.248.179 09:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I remember it ever so called in the books. Michaelsanders 09:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not either. :-) I'll try to check what I can. But there's pretty definitely a lake near Hogwarts, at least. -- 201.50.248.179 10:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Mentioned in Wikipedia Grindylow, for whatever that's worth (might help track down a print reference). -- 201.50.248.179 10:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, this article isn't really the place for that. If it isn't properly covered in Hogwarts layout, put it in there; but here, there is already a mention that Hogwarts is situated by a lake, and nothing else is needed. As for the term 'Black Lake' - well, the Grindylow article doesn't source its use. If you can find a canonical use of the name, then cite it and use it where appropriate. Michaelsanders 12:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The Black Lake is not canon, having never been called as such in the books. This stems from a reference to the name in the fourth film and and eponymous song from the soundtrack. See here and search for "black lake." --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 18:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear. Film pollution (and I didn't realise! Kicking myself, here...) DO NOT use the term anywhere near a canon-based article! And I'm removing it from the Grindylow article.

Sorry, but I do get slightly wound up by the film fiddlings. Michaelsanders 18:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I do not believe there is a problem with mentioning that the Loch at Hogwarts is referred to as the Black Lake in the movie(s). If a thing is called one thing in the Books, and something else in the movie, then we give canonical preference to the Books first, and mention, in passing, the alternate name from the film. While the movies may not be "perceived" to be "as canonical" as the books, they are still a record of the Harry Potter universe, and are worthy of mention. It is not as if there is an ongoing battle between Warner Bros. and JK Rowling over who "owns" the Potter franchise and who gets "preference" when there are differences in how that universe is portrayed. I am convinced that if Rowling had a strong objection to the name "Black Lake", due to contradicting her storyline or whatever, then she would have forced them change it somehow "in post".

Of course there is the unfortunate matter of the alternative endings of Quirrell in Philosopher's Stone, and consequently whether Potter should then have seen Thestrals afterwards, but that is more of an unusual exception than a common problem between the two approaches to the storyline. To my knowledge, Rowling has ignored the Quirrell problem and only referred to her version of that story, with regards to the Thestrals. --T-dot (Talk | contribs) 19:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Has the lake ever been called a loch? Michaelsanders 19:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Well not in the books. Actually this was another old theory once kicked around, apparently lost to wiki-antiquity. Hogwarts was theorized to be located to the north, in Scotland, where deep and sometimes mysterious lakes are called lochs (eg: Loch Ness); and what with the Durmstrang ship arriving submerged from afar, it would seem to have needed an inlet as access to the sea, and yada yada yada ... thus a loch. Anyway in our first introduction to "the lake" in Book 1 near the end of chapter 6, as Harry arrives with the first-years, "The narrow path had opened suddenly onto the edge of a great black lake." In book 4, the lake is also described as normally having a "smooth black surface", when the Durmstrang ship arrives, so it is not a stretch to imagine the students and teachers referring to it colloquially as "the black lake", if not properly as The Black Lake. --T-dot (Talk | contribs) 19:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments/research. :-) Re lochs/lakes, Loch says "A loch ... is a body of water which is either: a lake or a sea inlet.... This name for a body of water is Gaelic[1] in origin and is applied to most lakes in Scotland and to many sea inlets in the west and north of Scotland. .... Scotland has only one natural water body actually called a lake, the Lake of Menteith." -- Again, people may have the idea that Hogsmeade / Hogwarts are located in Scotland because Loch Shiel (used for the Lake in the films) is in Scotland. -- 201.50.248.179 15:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, all for intelligent handling of this topic. IMHO (1) We should add a quick mention of "the lake" to Hogwarts (2) We should mention that it's called "the Black Lake" in the films, but not in the books. -- 201.50.248.179 15:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

SVG Coat of Arms

• 
  Old, low-res jpeg
• New scalable vector CoA. Note that the latin text is readable
  New scalable vector CoA. Note that the latin text is readable

I made an SVG version of the Coat of Arms og Hogwarts, and replaced the old jpeg with it. It was soon reverted because John Reaves called it "cartoony", and I must admit, the first version was pretty cartoony. But having improved it to what you see on the above, I don't see why having the old jpeg would be favourable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Rules_of_thumb

“ "Use JPEG format for photographic images, and SVG format for icons, logos, drawings, maps, flags, and such, falling back to PNG when only a raster image is available. Use GIF format for inline animations, Ogg/Theora for video." ”

I'm sure there are many pretty low-res jpeg images of the US president's seal, but for some reason, an svg is preferred.

If you think this SVG looks like shit, just (say what to) improve, instead of whining "it's impossible to make it better", because thats simply not true - Hogwarts' logo is a very simple logo. A classic case of a vectorisable jpeg.

S. Solberg J.

16:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

It still looks ugly. And 'cartoony' is a good word - it doesn't look real, it just looks poor quality. Poor contrast and depth, poor depiction of the details (for example the central 'H'), crude depiction of the animals, over-bold colours - it looks like the central feature of an anime, not the Hogwarts coat of arms (for the record, even svg animals on real coats of arms are given better depictions than here). The jpeg, on the other hand, looks good, is readable, is realistic and tasteful. Progress and compliance with the rules are laudable goals here, but not at the expense of quality - as is recognised by the rules - this replacement coat of arms is entirely inferior and will damage the quality of the article, and therefore we are expected to disregard the rules in that area. Michael Sanders 18:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

"Over-bold colours"? Heraldry traditionally uses only seven colours — black, red, green, blue, purple, yellow and white (sable, gules, vert, azure, purpure, or, argent); so any accurate representation of a coat of arms will probably have "bold" colours. 193.122.47.162 21:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Comment on British education

The O.W.L.s roughly corresponds to the O(rdinary)-level (now replaced by GCSE), and the N.E.W.T.s to the A-level examinations used in the English state school system. I'm fairly sure they are used in all schools, I went to a private school and took A-Levels. Sabine's Sunbird talk 06:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Troll in Grading System

Are you really sure that when One of the Weasley Twins or Lee Jorden (can't remember who) said that Troll was the lowerest mark that they were being serious? I only say this because I took that as a joke conisdering the twins sense of humour and that Snape always gave Harry D's in Potions lessons. Surely if the grade actually existed, Snape would have given it.Wild ste 22:08, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The "Troll" is definitely an actual grade, as can be seen when Harry, Ron and Hermione receive their OWL grades. The professors are not the ones to administer the OWLs, so Snape had no say in the grades given to students. Faithlessthewonderboy 16:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Professor Charity Burbage

Looking through the Potter pages, before the new book, I saw Professor Charity Burbage as the Muggle Studies teacher, which book was she introduced in? As I don't recall the name and it's not in the HP lexicon.

On Jkr's website

In Deathly Hallows 86.12.251.193 17:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

The Latin Motto

I don't see how the Latin motto could be correct grammatically. Dragon and sleeping are in the Nominative case (they should be in the Accusative) and "tickle" here is a perfect passive participle. Unless it is a very rare form which isn't taught until AP Latin courses, it doesn't look right at all. The closest thing I could imagine is the Future Passive Periphrastic (I think I'm meaning that) where the sentence in Latin is Passive must be reversed to be active in English. If I'm not naming it right (a summer without school will do that to you), the most famous example of what I'm trying to talk about is probably "Carthago delenda est," Carthage must be destroyed. I wouldn't be bringing this up really, but I think that the Latin is incorrect might be something to mention. If it is perfectly fine Latin and I've just forgotten the form, ignore this. Millancad 16:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

All I can tell you is that when JK came up with the motto, she actually asked a Latin teacher (or expert, not sure which) to give her the Latin form of it, and thats what he gave her. So she did her research and if it is incorrect, blame the person who gave it to her.Wild ste 11:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Draco and dormiens nunquam titillandus. Here dragon and sleeping are indeed in the nominative, and titillandus is a gerundive: a verbal noun meaning "a thing which should be x" where x is the original verb. The phrase itself contains no finite noun. This is a permitted idiom in Latin, and the appropriate form of the verb "sum" is assumed. As "sum" is a copula, or linking verb, Draco (and hence dormiens) does indeed take the nominative. The whole is then, literally, "The/A sleeping dragon (is) never a thing that should be tickled". "Never tickle a sleeping dragon" would be a quite reasonable translation. cmsg

"Parallel universe"

This article began with the words "In the wizarding world, the parallel universe created ...". This is a problem. "Wizarding world" is a phrase from fandom, and should not be used in the same tone an marterial from the books, without explicitly distinguishing the two. Secondly, Rowling has in no sense created a "parallel universe". She has written books. This is not an aspersion on the depth of the world she has described, but the phrase is inapporpriate. It would be equally so in the imagined worlds of Tolkein or Lewis.

"Hogwarts: A History" to "History"

Hogwarts: A History is the name of a fictional book about a fictional place. To use it as a title in an article seems out of place to me. History seems more apt, since it is a history of the place. 89.241.168.99 01:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Question

Is there any explanation of why Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw and Slytherin would have chosen the name "Hogwarts" (was it a historical name for the castle, an honorary name for a famous wizard-teacher of history? etc) --Dystopos 15:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I think JK once said something about the hogwort plant inspiring her, perhaps it grew wild where they built the school. Jcatgrl (talk) 23:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Minerva McGonagall

Should Minerva McGonagall be listed as the present head of Hogwarts? I would say no, but I am unsure as to whether 'present' refers to the present day in relation to the beginning of the series - making 'present' mean just after the battle of hogwarts - in which case it is correct, or if it refers to the epilogue, i.e. 19 years from now, in which case it is wrong. The One 16:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Minerva became Acting Headmistress by default when Snape did a bunk and was killed by Voldemort, but from JKR's interview on the Today show, there is an implication that she never became full Headmistress (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323) as she was "getting on a bit". The article is written too definitely, and I've therefore added a "fact" (citation needed) tag. AndyB 17:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Hats/caps

do hogwarts students wear hats? theres 2 references in philosopher's stone book and 1 in film, but i cant really see them wearing hats all the time.

gray lady

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't they gray lady helena ravnclaw, the daughter of rowena, who stole her diadem and hid it in albania? The article says it is rowena.

TfD nomination of Template:HP School

Template:HP School has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 21:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Head of Slytherin

I've just reverted an edit that involved someone changing the 'dates' that Severus Snape was head of Slytherin at Hogwarts from HP1 to HP 6 to HP1 to HP5. The reason I changed it back was because Snape was still head of slytherin in HP 6 until running away from Hogwarts and being duly preceeded by Horace Slughorn. I am right in doing this aren't I? Lradrama 14:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

You're absolutely right. faithless (^speak) 21:18, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge in OWLS

Does the Ordinary Wizarding Levels have any notability outside of its relation to Hogwarts? No. This article is just a reexplanation of the plot of the various harry potter books, and as such, should be merged into Hogwarts. Judgesurreal777 05:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. asyndeton 17:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Oppose This is it's own thing and it shouldn't be merged. --MacMad (talk · contribs)  07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Explain how it is its "own thing", MacMad. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 20:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

well, it does make sense to merge, in a way, becasue, for one, the grades are the same, and fleur said Beauxbatons doesnt have them so...... --Storytellershrink 02:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Also agree. -Lemonflash_{(do something)} 00:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Fleur said that at Buabatons,(or however it's spelled) they take their examinations, so we might not want to merge if it's an aspect at other schools. However, we don't know if they're called the same thing in France, so I dunno what to do with it...... Maybe merge it here, but make a little note at the bottom that other schools may or may not have a similar system? Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Keyblade Mage 21:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC) Keyblade Mage

Residents

How is this infobox category at all noteworthy? - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 19:48, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Possible 'Popular Culture' reference

At the beginning of the opening credits for 2005 movie "Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit" the camera pans over a photograph of Gromit graduating from "Dogwarts University." Should this be mentioned as a 'popular culture' reference to Hogwarts? John 210.246.6.33 13:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Prolly not. however, if you can cite a reliable reference, please post it here. :) - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 02:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

"Well-Known Students"

Can someone explain how this listcruft is actually useful? I am tempted to yank it. - Arcayne (^{cast a spell}) 20:37, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes

I think it looks unbelievably tacky, having all these infoboxes on the same page, when most of them have two pieces of information in the, which could easily be covered in the accompanying text. Is anyone else in favour of getting shot of them? asyndeton 21:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Someone merged an article like "Places in Hogwarts" or something, but just dumped the whole thing into this one, and no one has bothered fixing it yet. faithless (^speak) 00:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree too. There is no need to repeat information from the section in an Infobox. Lord Opeth 01:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Classrooms

Is there really a need to mention all classrooms? For example, the description of the Ancient Runes classroom is ridiculous, the teacher was not even mentioned, neither the classroom, and the location is "unknown". Same with Arithmancy and some other stuff. Lord Opeth 01:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Republic of Ireland

Can anyone tell me where it is mentioned in the book that citizens of the ROI also attend hogwarts? --Camaeron (talk) 15:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure JKR confrmed it during an interview, though I can't find it at the moment. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that Seamus Finnigan is Irish. faithless (^speak) 20:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Bear in mind part of Ireland lies in the UK. --Camaeron (talk) 21:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but Northern Ireland has less than half the population of the Republic of Ireland. So if someone is from Ireland, chances are they're from the ROI, based strictly on the numbers. But your point is taken. faithless (^speak) 21:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

numbers-

since at hogwarts there are 4 houses,with 10 kids per year,out of a 7 year enrollment.5 boys,5gils,10x70=2,800 stundents..clause i'm making a lego hogwarts to scale,soo this is it. 70 ppl per house,4 houses,10 ppl in each year.plus the techears..round 20,plus 100 elves,plus like 50+ ghosts....that puts the total ppl at hogwarts like-3000..and owls to,...so studnets should be 2,800,not counting the rest,not 600- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.21.237 (talk) 02:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I think you need to check your math. If there are indeed ten students per house per year, then there are seventy students in each house. Since there are four houses, there would be 280 students total. faithless (^speak) 02:40, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

ahh yes,sorry bout the other 0s...96.224.176.40 (talk) 00:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

J.k Rowling has noted that due to the lack of number of students in Harry's year that she imagines Hogwarts to have about 600 students. --Jammy (talk) 22:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Well-known students

I think that this list is completely needless. The article is already large and has lots of information repeated within itself. Lord Opeth (talk) 03:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The Actual Building.

What's the name of the actual castle the film is shot in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.122.193 (talk) 00:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

try Alnwick Castle#FilmsCheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.30.184.9 (talk) 02:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

The Castle is made of different parts of Castles all around Britain, filming is just about the same. As with the comment above, I know Alnwick Castle was used for quite a few scenes. Durham Cathedral was used to film the Forbidden Corridor and the Transfiguration Courtyard in the first two films, it was later replaced by Oxford University Courtyard as the Transfiguation Courtyard. There are many other scenes shot in various buildings around Britain. --Jammy (talk) 22:55, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Technology

I added a little section on this topic, which I think is quite notable considering the books are supposed to take place in the 1990s. If anyone can find a better place to put it, or if it can be incorporated into one of the other sections, please feel free. 23skidoo (talk) 15:35, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Lyrics deleted

I have removed the lyrics to the school song as copyvio. WP:LYRICS and other Wikipedia copyright policies prohibit the use of copyrighted song lyrics beyond one or two lines. Even though created as part of a book, the lyrics to the Hogwarts school song are still considered to be copyrighted lyrics. 23skidoo (talk) 15:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Speculation in "Arrival" section

The first paragraph of the section named "Arrival" currently reads [1]:

Students can travel to Hogwarts and the neighbouring all-magical village of Hogsmeade in many ways. One such method is the Hogwarts Express that students take at the start of each school year in the books. It is not clear if this is compulsory even though other methods have been used. Presumably, other methods would be available to preclude the need for pupils from Scotland or the North of England to make an unnecessary journey all the way to London (some of these pupils may wish to travel by Hogwarts Express merely for the experience). Harry and Ron arrived by flying the Weasley's family car in their second year after missing the train. Template:HP2 Other methods of travel include broomsticks, Thestrals, a one-time connection to the Floo Network, as well as the Knight Bus. On the other hand, Apparition is not possible within the premises of the castle. Hermione Granger, quoting from Hogwarts, A History, multiple times throughout the series, states this. There is nothing written or implied, however, that might exclude the possibility of apparating to a location just outside the premises of the castle (such as Hogsmeade village) and entering the grounds from that location.

I have highlighted the problematic areas in bold

The sentence beginning "It is not clear if..." is speculation. We speculate that traveling on the Hogwarts express may be compulsory although this question is never addressed in the books or the films.

The sentence beginning "Presumably" is also speculation. That's what "presumably" means.

The following sentence is also speculation:

There is nothing written or implied, however, that might exclude the possibility of apparating to a location just outside the premises of the castle (such as Hogsmeade village) and entering the grounds from that location.

It's speculation because, again, it introduces a novel idea by appeal to the absence of anything to contradict the statement.

These three items of speculation are original research and I propose that they be removed, resulting in the following:

Students can travel to Hogwarts and the neighbouring all-magical village of Hogsmeade in many ways. One such method is the Hogwarts Express that students take at the start of each school year in the books. Harry and Ron arrived by flying the Weasley's family car in their second year after missing the train. Template:HP2 Other methods of travel include broomsticks, Thestrals, a one-time connection to the Floo Network, as well as the Knight Bus. On the other hand, Apparition is not possible within the premises of the castle. Hermione Granger, quoting from Hogwarts, A History, multiple times throughout the series, states this.

--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 06:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Grand Staircase

After making an addition to the Order of the Phoenix game I noticed that the Grand Staircase is missing from this article, I think it's quite a important location and should really be mentioned. But I'm not the one who can do such a thing and thought it's best to note it should be mentioned and leave it to the people who can do it best. --Jammy (talk) 21:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

What makes you think you're not qualified to do it? Why don't you draft it here or in a Sandbox (you can use mine if you want) and let others help you fix it up? (: AshleyScripter _{talkback} 22:40, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm more into correcting, I've always had a curse on me meaning whenever I create a article or something similar, it always gets deleted as it's not good enough. It first happened on a fansite for a game I once played and the curse has followed me onto Wikipedia as with the Greg Benson article. I'd just prefer it that other people did it instead of me. --Jammy (talk) 22:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

If you're really not feeling up to it, how about if you just help everyone else get started by listing what you think it notable about the Grand Staircase? Ashley _{talkback} 22:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

All I can really think of to add to a section about the Grand Staircase is a picture of it which I'm fairly certain can be used from the first movie. That's really all I can think of. --Jammy (talk) 23:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

If you have a picture already, I'm sure it would be useful in the section about the Entrance Hall; maybe that would be enough. (: Ashley _{talkback} 23:27, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Classrooms, offices, and stuff

Is the list of all classrooms and offices really needed? I think that for encyclopedic purposes, that information is not important at all. Some Hogwarts locations played an important roll in the series, for example the CoS, Room of Requirement, Forbidden Forest, the PS hiding place, or even the dormitories, Hagrid's Hut, or the Library, but the list of all classrooms and most of the offices (except the Headmaster's Tower) should be removed. Same with some locations like Kitchens, Great Hall, Hospital Wing, Trophy Room, Prefect's Bathroom, Owlery, and White Tomb are useless and make this article extremely large. --Lord Opeth (talk) 14:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I have suggested the merge of the Hogwarts subjects into this article. I have also written a Draft to give you an idea of how this article would look like without all the classrooms and offices and cruft, and with the subjects already merged. --Lord Opeth (talk) 19:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Hogwarts houses

The Hogwarts houses article was moved into this one as it failed to meet Notability. Only a trimmed version of it was merged in here as that article also listed the founders and the ghosts, which were moved to Hogwarts staff. I also removed the section about "History" as it was a re-tell of plot and almost all the info in there was repeated (for example the opening of the Chamber). --Lord Opeth (talk) 00:20, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Staircases

In the books, do the staircases really move around as they do in the first film? Thanks. 98.27.163.42 (talk) 19:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, they do. Read Book 1, there is definitely a reference to moving staircases. - plau (talk) 17:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Tonk's school house.

Rahaka, Andromeda was listed in Slytherin. She is Tonk's MOTHER. Tonk's herself was in Hufflepuff, I'll edit it back for you.A Prodigy (talk) 09:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Peter Pettigrew

the remark about him should be removed, because of statements from last couple of chapters from DH

dumbledore has noted that they are "sorting too soon", and harry has stated in the epilogue that snape was "probably the bravest man he knew", as such wouldn't fell into slytherin, by far. sorting of the sorting hat is permanent, but it occurs at only 11 years of age.--PrimEviL 13:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Length?

Has this been discussed? This article is HUGE can't something be done about it's length?--Sugarcubez (talk) 15:44, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Meh, I wouldn't call 66k HUGE. I'm sure it could use a good ce, but it's not that big of an article. faithless (^speak) 23:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that this article is too long. Zappo123456789 (talk) 08:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Strange coming from someone who just added to the article. ;-) faithless (^speak) 09:10, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Could anyone get a sound file with the pronunciation of this word? I have no idea how is it done - probably someone records a sample and uploads it. I have no idea how to pronounce it. It looks like one of the "old English" words with the "ths" 93.105.146.121 (talk) 01:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

It's pretty easy to pronounce, just the way it's spelled - Hog-warts. Hogwarts. faithless (^speak) 03:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Hogwarts

I come with this proposal but there is actually no article to merge in here. With the sub-sections of the plot section of Deathly Hallows removed, the page of the Battle of Hogwarts (BoH) redirected nowhere, as it previously redirected to a sub-section named "Battle of Hogwarts". I created a temporary page to decide where to merge it, but an admin decided to delete it, and then protected the page.

A page named "Battle of Hogwarts" was deleted in the past, but the deleted versions refered to the battle of the sixth book (the one in the tower, Dumbledore's death, etc.) The page I recreated for further merger had completely new content, refering to the actual Battle of Hogwarts (the one of the final book), however the admin deleted it. I asked him to let us create a section in the Hogwarts article about the BoH, but he decided that such section shall not exist, and redirected the Battle of Hogwarts to the Hogwarts article and protected it again.

The Battle of Hogwarts may have no outside notability, however there are some other battles about other fictional stories such as Battle of the Morannon, First Battle of Beruna, Battle of the Line, and many more. Even with this, I am not asking to restore the page, but only to have a small section in this article (Hogwarts) giving basic information about the Battle of Hogwarts, and then maybe protect it again to avoid further recreation of the page. This is because the page is linked in several articles, and the event was crucial in the climax of the series.

Any thoughts? --LoЯd ۞pεth 03:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe it's worth mentioning, as it is a major event in the Harry Potter books that I often just skip to whilst reading the book as it's an exciting chapter. I do believe it is notable enough to be in this article. Jammy (talk) 20:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it should definitely have a page, or at least a section. It's an important event in Potterverse. I mean, think about it: The Horcruxes are destroyed. House rivalries fall. For crying out loud, it's the chapter where Voldemort dies, effectively changing the course of history in the Wizarding World forevermore. If not a page, then a section is deserved, especially if other fictional battles have pages and sections of their own. SMARTALIENQT (talk) 02:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Combining the Battle of Hogwarts with the article on Hogwarts is a massive spoiler where one wouldn't necessarily be expected. I believe information on the battle should be split to a "Battle of Hogwarts" article, with an appropriately clear link (something like "The Battle of Hogwarts is the climactic battle at the end of Deathly Hallows."). As the resolution of a widely-read series it is surely notable enough to warrant its own article. – 74  11:33, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

School Motto

The english translation of the motto should be changed to, "A sleeping dragon ought never to be tickled," as Titillandus is a gerundive.Captain Gamma (talk) 22:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

You may well be correct (I've never studied Latin, and therefore have no idea), but Rowling has specifically said that it means "Never tickle a sleeping dragon" so there's really no argument. She might have gotten her Latin wrong, but we can't presume to tell her what the motto is of a fictional school she made up. :-) Cheers, faithless (^speak) 23:14, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

OkCaptain Gamma (talk) 02:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

They're both correct. One is the literal translation, one is the common-syntax translation. Here's a similar example to help you understand: In Spanish "Tengo tres anos" literally means "I have three years", but the common syntax translation would make it "I'm three years old".

76.250.232.91 (talk) 23:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Some notes!

I noticed just that this article is in a big MESS. So lets begin with the basic. First of all are you sure that Care for magical creatures is a optional subject in year three. Lets remind you that Harry attended this subject in his first year. The lessons are described as prety boring because they were studing about little bugs and stuff, also that there is some old proffesor who teaches this subject and he retired in book three. Than I'll suggest that we should add more details about the uniforms. I mean please, plain work robes in black, plain black hat, a pair of protective gloves and a black winter cloak with silver fastenings??? What is this? Than I am quoting "Each uniform must contain the wearer's nametag". Are you serious? Ok I am not saying to go to details and to write about the scarvs, but where are the classic uniforms, trousers for boys, skirts for girls, with the color of the their house and where the hell did you read or see a NAMETAG on their uniforms? I have a lot more stuff that I want to discuss but I really have to go now. Just think about the stuff I mentioned. ---Max^(talk) 22:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Battle Of Hogwarts - Commanders

Harry Potter was not a commander at this battle. He did not give orders or lead troops. He just showed up at the castle in need of time to search for the diadem, and the battle was hastily arranged by others to buy the time he needed. I will remove it after a while if nobody has any objections. Jaimeastorga2000 (talk) 21:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I beat you to it. No characters were referred to as "commanders" as far as I can remember. faithless (^speak) 23:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)