Talk:Julius Streicher

It is nothing mentioned about any direct victims ( either personally murdered or as a result of a personal order). Yet Streicher was sentenced to death. Was it the result of the jewish vengeance against him? There has been nothing criminal pointed out against him but propaganda. Nobody kills for words.

You are right. It is a severe breach of NPOV that the revenge aspect of his sentence is excluded from the article, in order to present a lighter picture of Streicher's executioners. It is accepted that had Streicher been tried lawfully he would have been protected by his right to freedom of speach. JewishNationalSocialist (talk) 18:28, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

From the article:

Despite having a tested IQ of 106, he was considered by many observers to be insane.

Sadly, low IQ and mental illness do not follow 1:1. In fact madness very commonly affects very intelligent people (although some cope with it better). Can we throw out the bit about Streicher's IQ? JFW | T@lk 23:23, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Having seen no response, I took out the bit about IQ.

-Vorpalbla 2/20/05

Well, if the IQ part is true, it should be mentioned in the article. But, it should be clear that IQ has nothing to do with mental illness.--Havermayer 00:32, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

An IQ of 106 is nothing to write home about, but it is more than one SD above the average African-American IQ of 85. And the average white American IQ is about 100.

Falange (talk) 14:02, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it is irrelevant. JFW | T@lk 01:20, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The following quote from the book by Airey Neave is probably apposite here though:

• "Two weeks after serving the indictment, I introduced him to Dr Marx of Nuremberg who represented him as counsel during the trial. Marx found his attitudes so extreme that he asked the tribunal to order Streicher's examination by a panel of psychiatrists. Streicher lectured the psychiatrists on the Jewish problem throughout the examination. They decided that he was suffering from a neurotic obsession but was not insane. Dr Gilbert summed up the case : 'No true psychiatric diagnosis, but this man is of a personality structure which borders on the frankly abnormal and which brought him into difficulties even in the pathological social environment of the Third Reich' ..." Nuremberg, P. 95

Dr Gilbert seems to contradict himself - part of the prosecution maybe?

It has to be said that Neave, when writing the chapter in his book on Streicher, viewed the man with undisguised loathing. Given the character of Streicher, and the legacy he left in his wake, it would be difficult to find many redeeming features with which to present a more sober and balanced view, and Neave's own personal encounters with the man during the progress of the Nuremberg Trials almost certainly resulted in a certain jaundiced view, as Streicher felt no need to endear himself to his enemies. Even with this in mind, Neave's open contempt for Streicher is, if perhaps less than ideal in a book aiming to be at least a partly historical account, refreshingly honest. Neave cites extracts from Der Stürmer and other Streicher writings, including a piece from a 1935 article entitled Alien Albumen which does, quite frankly, read like the ravings of a madman, so it is not surprising that a view of Streicher as insane enjoyed considerable circulation among his contemporaries. I could quote this piece as printed in Neave's book, but to be honest, I suspect many readers of the piece will feel the need to take a long shower afterwards - it is that bad.

Neave also cites details of the web of financial corruption within which Streicher was entangled, enriching himself at the expense of Jews deprived of their property, an investigation into said corruption being ordered by Hermann Goering after Streicher published a piece claiming that Goering's daughter Edda was conceived by artificial insemination. I think it is fair to say, given the details of Streicher's life, that the man seemed to have been hell-bent on acquiring for himself the epithet of "World's dirtiest old man", particularly as even the Nazis found themselves moved to put him on trial for sexual offences ... Calilasseia 10:31, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

From the article:

...ten evil men were hanged on that day...

This is an encyclopedia. Encyclopedias should never present moral judgements of real people as if they were facts, no matter how great a consensus exists. --Rwehr 23:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Whip

I have heard that while in charge of Nuremberg, he would personally "police" the streets and dispense "instant justice" with a whip. The article at present makes no mention of this. Who was whipped, for example? Some real criminals or just Jews and people who got in his way?

• Neave mentions this on more than one occasion in his book. If I turn to the chatper of Nuremberg entitled The Beast Of Nuremberg (pp.86 96), we find the following:
  • "Streicher had been imprisoned on one occasion [under the Nazis] for assaulting a boy prisoner while on an official visit to the cells. He had arrived with two fellow sadists who had watched him while he beat the prisoner with a whip. He then announced that it gave him an orgasm." (p.87)
  • "Streicher's teachings were repeated by others in more respectable form. Generals, admirals and diplomats assured the Nuremberg Tribunal of their disgust at his writings, but even after he was deprived of his office for corruption, they never denounced his propaganda. Repugnant though the lewd figure of Streicher, strutting through the streets of Nuremberg, whip in hand, may have been, they shared his essential beliefs. The laughed at his brutal jokes." (p.91)
• The central premise of Neave's biographical account is that Streicher was an arch sex criminal with a neurotic anti-Semitic obsession intimately woven between the threads of his lurid provlicities. For example:
  • "When Gauleiter Streicher finallly came unstuck in 1940, and was forced by Hitler to retire, it ws not his sexual misconduct which forced the Party bosses to action. They were prepared to overlook his more harmless eccentricities, like walking to his office in bathing trunks. It was the cesspool of corruption and embezzlement in which he had lived for years that led to the investigation." (p.95)
  • "He was like an ape exposing himself in a cage at the zoo. He was said by the prosecution to have boasted to his chauffeur of nightly wet dreams and exhibited the semen to prove it." (p.86)
  • "Streicher was familiar with the Palace of Justice and its courtoom. He had already been tried there and in other courts more than once for slander, sadism and rape. Hitler at first protected him from further penalties." (p.86)
  • "At first sight, Streicher, as his cell door opened, seemed insignificant. He was small and strongly built, being sixty at the time. He wore a khaki shirt and trousers. The shirt was open showing a very hairy chest. There was a peculiar light in his eyes. When exicted, they had the look of a hungry animal. Streicher was primarily a sex criminal. He said when he arrived at Nuremberg, 'I have of course been here before'." (p.87)
  • "He looked, as Rebecca West as written, like the 'sort of old man who gives trouble in parks'." (p.87)
• While it may not be the place of the encyclopedia to pass moral judgements (alluding to the commentator above this section), by any reasonable standards, Streicher was a severely degenerate man. Neave went on to describe him thus:
  • "He was standing, hands on hips, chin forward, ready for an argument. He was five feet, two inches tall, broad-chested, and sordid. He would have made a good subject for an indecent sixteenth-century woodcut. It was easy to imagine him as a fat, horned devil, advancing, erect, upon a virgin." (p.87)
• And then this:
  • "The man himself was less dramatic. His head was shaped like a bullet, with a receding forehead. His nose was curved and his chin pointed. His short, fat neck made him look both coarse and evil: a professional torturer who might have operated the Iron Maiden of Nuremberg. When stripped to the waist, he appeared immensely strong for his age. A man, I thought, capable of any cruelty. He was also, I felt, stupid and cunning, and as the Nazis themselves discovered, a consummate liar." (p.88)
• Indeed, as I have alluded above, it is tempting to ponder upon the notion that Streicher seemed to be an avid competitor for the title of 'dirtiest old man of all time', and while commentators from a more academic background may have displayed a greater circumpsection with respect to revealing their disgust at the man, Neave's personal insights into Streicher provide a study in what might be termed 'the repugnant fasciantion of evil'. Calilasseia 04:17, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Is Neave to be believed, or his sources? Strange for a man of such low IQ and "well known depravity" to rise so high and accomplish so much. He was a propagandist, the history about him smells of propaganda too.

107 is an IQ which is actually higher than average. But low compared to Goering's 137. So that should say something... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.24.35.55 (talk) 14:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

An IQ of 106 is nothing to write home about, but it is more than one SD above the average African-American IQ of 85. And the white American average IQ is about 100.

Falange (talk) 13:58, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Confusing sentence

During the trial the other defendants, who, to a man, despised Streicher, refused to have anything to do with him. ??? Almost unreadable.

rv

In what way is this confusing? It means that the other defendants hated Streicher and refused to have anything to do with him during the trial.

Wonder if there are any official source about other defendants' disdain over Streicher? I feel that he is somehow like Josef Mengele on whom with unusally numerous emotional remarks and thus quoting of official soruce seems to be desriable.

The German Socialist Party

By the standards of Weimar Germany, the German Socialist Party (Deutschsozialistische Partei) was a party of the political right. It had nothing to do with the real socialist parties (the Social Democrats or the Communists, or their various splinter groups). Instead, it was a völkisch party very close to the Nazis in ideology. See Joachim Fest's Hitler, for example, on this (p. 139 of the paperback edition). It competed with the Nazis for the same part of the political spectrum. When Streicher concluded that Hitler was his superior, the DSP was simply absorbed into the NSDAP. Any member of one of the socialist parties of the period would have viewed the DSP (as well as, of course, the NSDAP) as right wing rather than socialist. Bytwerk 13:21, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

More on the German Socialist Party

OK, anonmous. In your first edit, you confuse the DSP with the SPD. In your second edit, you think it is Fascist, though Mussolini had yet to take power in Italy, and the term was not in use in Germany. In your third edit, you claim that the DSP was not right ring, but socialist, but provide no support. Later, to support your assertion, you provide a source that does not even mention the DSP. Furthermore, at least according to the Wikipedia article on the Far Right, Murray Rothbard, the author of that piece, puts Fascism on the right, so citing him as your evidence may not be too persuasive.

The terms right and left were widely used in the Weimar Republic. The DSP and the Nazis thought themselves to the right. The Socialists and the Communists thought so, too. A standard Marxist slogan from the period was "Der Feind steht rechts," which translates as "The enemy is to the right."

There are a few folk who do argue that Nazism, etc., were "left," but they are are in the decided minority. None of them, to my knowledge, knows anything at all about the DSP. Moreover, to insert the term in the article without explanation will confuse readers, since the historical consensus puts the DSP on the right wing.

If you want to make the claim, find a source that actually mentions the DSP in a way that agrees with you. And how about providing some evidence for "socialist" views on the part of the DSP? The fact that "socialist" is in the name does not make it socialist in reality, any more than the name of East Germany (the German Democratic Republic) made it a democracy. Bytwerk 13:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Bytwerk, the point I am making is this: The nascent/contributatory parties to the NSDAP were fundamentally socialist in their doctrine and ideology. As the distinguished Professor Rothbard states in the article I referred you to "Or rather, to be more precise, there were from the beginning two different strands within socialism: one was the right-wing, authoritarian strand, from Saint-Simon down, which glorified statism, hierarchy, and collectivism and which was thus a projection of conservatism trying to accept and dominate the new industrial civilization. The other was the left-wing, relatively libertarian strand, exemplified in their different ways by Marx and Bakunin, revolutionary and far more interested in achieving the libertarian goals of liberalism and socialism; but especially the smashing of the state apparatus to achieve the “withering away of the State” and the “end of the exploitation of man by man.”" Very few people understand this about socialism, and even fewer understand the genesis of the terms 'liberal', 'conservative' and 'left/right-wing.' It would be nice if this Wikipedia article could aim just a little higher at clarity. Mind you, when Dr. Rothbard uses 'conservative' he's speaking of the ancien regime. So, to state a-priori that the DSP was simply right-wing is misleading in the fullest sense of the term. If you'd like to remove the subjectivity, then I'll not insist on correcting it. Just leave it as "established German Socialist Party (Deutschsozialistische Partei)." and you won't hear anything more from me on the subject. Anonmous 16:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The program of the DSP included these main elements: "demands for a Greater Germany, land and colonies, discirimination against Jews and denial of citizenship to them, breaking 'interest slavery', confiscation of war profits, land reform, protection of the middle class, persecution of profiteers, and tight regulation of the press." As Ian Kershaw points out, these elements were standard for the völkisch Right. (Kershaw, Hitler 1889-1936, pp. 144-145.) You are insisting on the view of a rather small minority, and you have yet to provide a single source that suggests the DSP was socialist in any commonly used sense of the term. Bytwerk 14:15, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Julius was a leader of the socialist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.158.216.123 (talk) 17:30, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Streicher's Execution

Any record of who the hangman was. Many of the hangings were done by the official English hangman ( 100s of hangings). Most/many of the hangings seem to have been botched - were they botched intentionally? Was the crowd that "interrogated" them the same crowd that hung them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.105.80.141 (talk) 15:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the hangman at Nuremburg was an American soldier who was brought in for the job. It wasn't Pierrepoint, who was the leading British hangman. I'll look it up. Darkmind1970 (talk) 11:58, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The hangman was Master Sergeant John Woods. Lots of people said the hangings were botched, have you seen the pics of some of the other men? They have blood all over their faces, that doesn't seem normal when a "merciful" hanging is supposed to instantly snap the neck and BOOM! Yer dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.30.181 (talk) 23:34, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

According to nitzor - his magazine Der Strumer was closed down by the Nazis on 3 or 4 occasions. Doesn't this cast into doubt its being a Nazi paper? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.105.80.141 (talk) 19:27, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

According to what I've read, from a book written by Gitta Sereny, it was shut down during the 1936 Olympics, and was shut down only once before that for insulting Emmy Goering because she still did a lot of her shopping in Jewish-owned stores. Ladycplum (talk) 02:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Streicher was such a fanatical anti-semite that many Nazis considered Der Sturmer to be vulgar. For instance, Hoess, the commandant of Auschwitz remarks in Gilbert's Nuremberg Diary that he never read it, but preferred the "more mature" speeches of Hitler and Goebbels. Furthermore, Gilbert classifies Streicher's antisemitism as a neurosis. He brings it into every conversation, and even remarks that he is adept at "detecting Jews," specifically by observing their buttocks. There is no doubt that Der Sturmer was a "Nazi paper," considering that Streicher was a Nazi, and was appointed by Hitler.68.163.249.192 (talk) 18:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Purimfest 1946

This quote of Streicher's does not refer to a new holiday but rather to the fact that, just as Haman's 10 sons were hanged, 10 leading Nazis, or sons of Hitler, were being hanged —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.21.112.150 (talk) 18:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

quote about palestine/israel

I once saw on TV that streicher in the end said something like "I want to go to israel and fight along the jews because the will win in the end" some time before his execution. I have not been able to find this quote here or on wikiquote.--130.251.167.31 (talk) 09:36, 19 January 2009 (UTC)