Talk:Castle/Archive 4

3RR

Is anybody getting sick of the guy reverting the article and putting in his pictures of Portugese castles that don't contribute to the context of the article subheadings? Somebody please report him for the 3RR. There is a long history of people putting redundant or irrelevant images on this article, justifying with "This picture represents ..... so its important."CJ DUB (talk) 01:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree. William Avery (talk) 07:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. For one thing, there is hardly any mention of portuguese castles and other European countries that have made significant contributions to castle building and design. I believe that you should understand the motives behind these actions before you decide to condemn him/her. I think that your reasons stem from long-held beliefs that only castles worthy of historical significance should be those from France, Enlgand, Spain, and Germany. Keep in mind that Europe does not entail ONLY those aforementioned nations. There are far more countries in Europe than those, you know. This is an American way of discriminatory thinking, and it's wrong.

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 05:41, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

you shouldn't assume anything about the nationality/citizenship of other editors. Seb az86556 (talk) 05:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Seb, I can understand why you say that. But understand that the ones responsible for most of the preconceived assumptions about people are americans. Americans are responsible for assuming things about Spaniards and other southern europeans that we all know is false. This is the very reason why I'm voicing my opinion on this discussion page. Therefore, based on my experiences with americans, I have no choice but to assume that the ones replying to me in a discriminatory way are americans.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 20:47, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know Seb is the only editor in this discussion who is American. In my experience, the majority of English language sources on castles are related to English castles; while castles in other countries are mentioned, usually France, Germany, and the Holy Land, there is a natural bias because most of the information scholars will be working from (for example original records and site reports from excavations) will be in the native language so it's simpler for English scholars to focus on English castles. That's not to say that the English have claimed castle building as their own, only that they usually focus on the subject without much context. American bias has nothing to do with this.

Because of the problems (as I see them anyway, perhaps I just haven't read enough) with the sources, the article on castles might seem narrow. The only way to change this is to suggest new sources. Nev1 (talk) 20:57, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Nev1, I must heavily disagree with you about Seb being the only american editor here. By the way the other editors are describing themselves and trying to defend something that isn't true, I have to bend toward the belief that most if not all the editors here are american. And american bias has alot to do with this otherwise we wouldn't be discussing the unfairness behind it. American writers have a habit of ignoring other contributions and thinking ethnocentrically that their way is the only way of viewing things.

As for new sources, I have already provided 2 that are reliable and justified. I really don't understand the need for new sources. Again, this is an american bias that comes from fear of other cultures (other than the american culture) that may have contributed to the world. And it sees this as some threat. But, if that's what it takes, I'll provide more, no problem.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 04:18, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey Ingrid4hubby, nice diatribe. There are plenty of pages on specific portuguese castles. On this article there is plenty of information on international castles including europe and even beyond. we cannot give examples for every country and put a pic from every country. Know why that is? THIS PAGE IS NOT ABOUT CASTLES ALL OVER THE WORLD; it is about the general history and development. There are MANY links at the bottom of the page to other topics. You want a page on portuguese castles, go make one. cya CJ DUB (talk) 14:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey CJ DUB, nice attempt at nothing. You say that this article isn't about castles all over the world. But, why are there referneces of castles about japan? DUHHH! And typing in bold face WILL NOT INTIMIDATE ME OR ANYONE. And the portuguese have contributed to the development of castle building for hundres of years. If you don't know this, then look it up. It looks like we got another american hater, folks!

You don't like this article? Then go someplace else.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 19:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Discrimination is essential in this matter - the need to discriminate between images that illustrate the article text and those which do not. William Avery (talk) 18:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

William Avery, discrimination and racism IS NOT tolerated in wikipedia, nor do we support racists or haters. Refer to the terms of service on wiki pages.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 19:20, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Let's try and keep this discussion civilised rather than attacking each other or throwing about words like "racist". It does no one any credit and isn't constructive. You have misunderstood what William Avery meant by "discriminate". Images are not being removed because they are of Portuguese castles, but because the images add nothing to the article or are not of a high enough quality. Nev1 (talk) 20:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

My original intention was to keep this discussion civilized. I'm not attacking anyone with racist labels. If William Avery meant to say that the images didn't represent the article, then I understand, no problem. Then I read him wrong.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 20:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

"Therefore, based on my experiences with americans, I have no choice but to assume that the ones replying to me in a discriminatory way are americans. 66.108.40.200"

^^^Can someone please ban this person. Its embarassing to have someone like this on wikipedia, and doubtless embarassing to other "southern europeans" What's with the chip on the shoulder? The damn article has Spanish, Italian and even a Mexican castle. The point of the page is not to inform about every single castle. I'm sorry if you missed that. By the way your comments on the White Americans article are truly priceless: african americans= anglos saxons, YES OF COURSE!!CJ DUB (talk) 23:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Deb, can you please block CJ DUB for breaking wiki rules about picking fights with others? It's embarrassing to have this troublemaker start personal attacks for no reason, especially when he has trouble spelling. The point to this page is to involve all who have contributed to castle-building. And it looks like he's got some sick obsession for me - he follows all my edits everywhere. He obviously is not as smart as the rest of us so he shouldn't be allowed to comment at all. Deb, we strongly urge you to block this "man". Thank you.

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 04:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

lol. You're the one starting fights with everybody. This page had some very thoughful additions and comments before you arrived with your "Americans are this...", "Americans are that" "YOU MUST BE AMERICAN" ignorant comments. They have no place in wikipedia or any other polite discourse. Please find me a wiki rule I've broken? You've broken many on this page, and I'm simply telling you. Follow your edits everywhere? That's a good one. I just wanted to see how many accounts you have. CJ DUB (talk) 21:46, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Deb, the user, CJ DUB, has made direct and personal attacks upon me, thus breaking wiki rules. As you suggested days ago, this user must be blocked from making any further comments. He called me ignorant and has insulted the wiki editors for no reason whatsoever. He's also mocked the wiki editors.

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 22:29, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Spanish Castles

Hi, I'd like to add updated info about Spanish castles that in the past you had deleted, which didn't make any sense. For example, a particular castle in Spain is called, 'King Charles V's Castle'. On your article, you continue to have the old and unused name of the castle called, 'Alcázar of Segovia'. Everyone in Spain has called and knows this castle by, 'King Charles V's Castle', for 500 years, not 'Alcazar of Segovia'. I'd appreciate the name change. Spaniards identify this castle by 'King Charles V Castle'. I should know because I'm half Spaniard. Be a bit more understanding so all can enjoy our contributions to the article and it doesn't become one-sided. There's no need for being discriminatory. Ingrid4hubby (talk) 05:49, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

What independent reliable source can we verify the name of the castle with? —C.Fred (talk) 05:55, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I have 2 references that refer to the castle as the Royal Place or Castle of Charles V. They are:

http://www.spain.info/TourSpain/Arte+y+Cultura/Monumentos/T/IW/0/Castillo+de+Carlos+V+(Hondarribia)?Language=en and http://www.castles.org/castles/Europe/Western_Europe/Spain/Madrid%20Royal%20Palace/index.htm 66.108.40.200 (talk) 17:08, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd suggest you bring it up at the talkpage for Alcázar of Segovia. That article's name should be changed first (if everyone agrees), then we can have it here, for uniformity. Also consider that it does not matter what the common name in Spanish is; since this is the English wikipedia, it matters what the English-speaking world considers the most "common" name/designation. English google: Alcázar of Segovia, 439,000 hits. King Charles V's castle: 0 hits. Seb az86556 (talk) 05:57, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Why should the Alcázar of Segovia article's name be changed first? That article doesn't pertain to you or this page whatsoever. Don't worry about other articles, just worry about this one. Who are you? And IT DOES matter what the common name is because it's what people in Spain refer to the castle as. You're not a Spaniard, you're american. So what matters is what Spaniards define their world. Don't define it for them. You're in no position to.

And, why would you say that what matters is what the English-speaking world believes? What about other people? Don't other people have a voice too? The english-speaking world doesn't control the world nor is it the only voice in the world. Seriously, you sound very biased. And by suggesting that the only voice that matters - regardless of other people's opinion - is the english-speaking world tells us that you're discriminatory. Everyone sees that. I strongly think you should stop thinking for other people and respect other peoples and their beliefs. I believe this is why there's so much one-sidedness and discrimination in the world. It comes from the belief that just because you're in a powerful position today that you have the authority to pre-define other people's beliefs. America isn't going to last forever, you know. I don't mean to come off like this, I'm just offering an example so that you and others don't fall into the trap of discriminating without knowing the facts. If you can understand this, then that's a good thing.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 17:08, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

If we're so out of touch, it is a bit strange that Spanish wikipedia also calls it Alcázar de Segovia, isn't it? Deb (talk) 13:28, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

It may be strange to you since you're american and you're not a Spaniard. If you were a Spaniard living in Spain, you would understand the Spaniard world. But obviously you're not and you don't. You're an american looking at the world through american eyes. The castle has 2 names: Alcázar de Segovia and Castle of Charles V or Royal Palace. The former name was in effect when the muslims were in Spain. But after the Christians conquered Spain, the Spaniards has since referred to the caste by the latter names. There's more to the world than how you're looking at it. Wikipedia is about describing the world on people's terms, not on american's terms. Wikipedia is made up of different peoples and cultures. It's not and should not be defined by an elite group of americans. It's a global market place now and america has a voice, but small voice now in relation to the other voices in the world. You sound like the guy above. And I'm saying this with all due respect, no offensive given. I suggest that you open your eyes and not be biased. I'm reacting to this type of thinking because it has caused much trouble in the world and should be prevented so that others can work in unison.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 17:08, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

You're making as much sense as saying the article "Spain" should be renamed "España" and "Germany" should be "Deutschland". Please go to the Spanish wikipedia and argue that the article "Estados Unidos" must be changed to "United States." (...and by the way, just from a quick check, it seems to me that Deb is more British-Welsh, but I might be wrong... and she doesn't insist on "Cymru," either...) Seb az86556 (talk) 17:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

And you make as much sense as a kindergartener. What are you talking about? I don't know what you're talking about from your erroneous analogies. You come across as a hater or vandalizer. Your tone is insulting. And what or who is cymru? Again, you don't know what you're talking about and you come of as a hater.

You got issues of hate against Spaniards for some reason. If you don't like the people and culture of Spain, then don't comment on the article. You got hate issues that need to be addressed. We can't help you since we're not a psych clinic that helps those who have been rejected by female Spaniards.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 19:01, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

And, having looked at the reference quoted above, I think we may be talking about two differnt castles, one in Segovia and one in Fuenterrabia. Deb (talk) 18:29, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

No, I'm talkaing about the castle that Spaniards have referred to for the last 500 years as the Royal Palace or Castle of Charles V. The castle's old name, Alcázar de Segovia, is seriously outdated. Therefore, the article must update this info.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 19:01, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Neither of the references you cite above refer to the castle we are talking about. Deb (talk) 19:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Deb, it looks like you're not seeing what we're seeing. Go back to the links or google it. I'll provide you with more links later.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 20:25, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure she did just that, and I am also fairly certain she is literate. Please refrain from

a) accusing people of racsim

b) labeling people as illiterate

c) accusing people of vandalism

d) calling people "kindergartener"

f) referring to people as being mentally ill or retarded

You should instead

a) read WP:CIVIL

b) read WP:NPA

c) be aware that not everyone's patience concerning a breach of said policies is endless. Take that as your first informal warning.

d) and learn what Cymru means

Thank you. Seb az86556 (talk) 20:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't think Deb checked, otherwise she would have admitted it. And I've never questioned her literacy. You're bringing that up out of nowhere which tells me that you're possibly starting some kind of altercation. If this is your motive, then refain from doing so. And when you tell me to refrain from calling people certain things, tell the man who disrespected me FIRST to do the same. Fair is fair.

Tell that man who disrespected me FIRST to read the wiki policies. And at the same time, tell me to read the wiki policies also. This way, everyone is on a level playing field. As far as I see it, Seb, the person whom you suggest I "disrespected", insutled me first. Go back and read the discussion between us so you can get a better handle of what went on. I had no choice but to defend myself and call him a 'kindergartener'. What I've been brought up to understand is when someone insults you first, you got every right to defend yourself.

If you can tell me what cymru means, I'll understand it. Otherwise, it's not important. You're welcome.

66.108.40.200 (talk) 21:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Cymru is the Welsh name for Wales. The point is that on the English wikipedia, where mos people speak English and English names are prevalent, the article is called Wales rather than Cymru.

And I would just like to reiterate to everyone on this page to make no further personal attacks or they risk being blocked. Nev1 (talk) 21:13, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Nev1, it's a good idea to warn everyone about personal attacks. Please let everyone know not to make personal attacks upon me or others, direct or subtle, even when I'm trying to work together with everyone. And to add to this, I want to further repeat that if anyone here gets blocked, it's because of your own doing. So, let's work together and not fight.

69.86.162.170 (talk) 04:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

No-one discriminated against you. You were the one who started this senseless rant, lashing out at people for no reason whatsoever, making presumptuous accusations that have no basis in reality. As an echo, you cannot expect anyone to pay much attention to you, at least not before you refrain from breaching WP:CIVIL even one more time. If you have some personal agenda and need to blow off steam, look for an appropriate forum (see WP:FORUM). Your behavior is completely unacceptable by any means and standards. Seb az86556 (talk) 21:15, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, Nev1, it looks like Seb has ignored your warning about personal attacks. What's wrong with you, Seb? Didn't you read Nev1's warning? Why would you call what you think I started a "senseless rant" when it's not a rant, and by you saying senseless, you're calling me ignorant? We're warning you... stop initiating a fight in this discussion or you will be blocked. Stop instigating that I'm lashing out at people when we know it's not true. You're a real troublemaker with some sick mental issues. Your behavior on this forum is not acceptable and won't be tolerated. If you don't like the discussion, then go to another forum and spill your bias there. STOP BOTHERING US FOR THE LAST TIME. Leave US alone or you will be blocked!!!

69.86.162.170 (talk) 04:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

The anonymous user above has used at least three different IP addresses and two different registered usernames in recent days. If this continues, I fear that banning is inevitable. Deb (talk) 11:58, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Deb, that would be me. But I now have signed in with my username. I didn't know before that I was not logging in. But you shouldn't threaten people with banning them if they didn't know about signing in. That's not reasonable. First, tell them about their errors. If they continue, then I understand that threatening to ban them is justified. You just got to be reasonable with people - that's the best way of avoiding problems with people and at the same time, you're helping them too. Hope this helps.

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 12:32, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Glad to see you now understand. But I did place a warning about this on your talk page before your last few contributions. Please try not to let it happen again, as other users will not always be ready to assume good faith in such cases. Deb (talk) 20:31, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Deb, you're quite welcome. Also, I noticed that we have a troublemaker making personal attacks, thus breaking wiki rules about insulting others. CJ DUB is the person making rude comments. Please refer to the above where he posted something in bold face - the timestamp of his offensive post is: 23:33, 17 August 2009. I greatly urge that you block him. We don't need offensive people like that insulting intelligent people here. Thank you!

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 04:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Protection

The current edit war over images and names of individual castles is unacceptable. I have fully protected the article for three days to facilitate discussion on this page. Keep it civil and do not make peronal attacks or the person responsible will be blocked. If you bring sources with you, and reason your arguments maybe this page can be improved. Nev1 (talk) 20:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

CJ DUB Continues To Insult Wiki Editors & Users

The user, CJ DUB, has made direct and personal attacks upon all of us, thus breaking wiki rules. He seems like a troll. He called me ignorant and has mocked the wiki editors. I have never talked to him before and I don't know who he is. He's a troublemaker and hater who wants to start fights. He's broken wiki rules. As you suggested days ago, this user must be blocked from making any further comments on this page. I think it's about time. Ingrid4hubby (talk) 22:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Ingridhubby ?

I'm not sure if any of the other editors are taking seriously, but I thought i might defend myself against these outrageous claims.

The user, CJ DUB, has made direct and personal attacks upon all of us,
:Whom have I attacked?

...thus breaking wiki rules. He seems like a troll. He called me ignorant and has mocked the wiki editors.
:You are in fact ignorant and have made several defamatory and unprovoked racist comments about americans (and No I am not one). I don't believe I've directed any of my comments at other wiki editors. Actually only YOU have.

I have never talked to him before and I don't know who he is. He's a troublemaker and hater who wants to start fights.
:I'm a wiki editor with 4-5 years in good standing. You have alienated every american who has read this article with your racist claims, right from your first comment (and under your other IP).

(In fact, user alienated every user, regardless of nationality/citizenship Seb az86556 (talk) 01:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC))

He's broken wiki rules.
:Again, please someone tell me if I've broken wiki rules, as it seems they don't apply to IngridHubby.

Please read the wiki rules as the other editor has mentioned.

CJ DUB (talk) 01:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

You haven't broken any wiki-rules, we all know that again, let's just leave it and keep your statement for the record. Seb az86556 (talk) 01:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Cheers, I don't suppose I can convince anybody to ban Ingrid4hubby can I? Nah? Oh well CJ DUB (talk) 12:18, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't suppose we can convince CJ DUB to like girls, can we? Nahhh!

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 05:50, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

CJ DUB Keeps Calling Users Ignorant - Violation of Wiki Rules

Hi, Deb. The user, CJ DUB continues to break Wiki rules by disrespecting others by insulting me. He stated the following, yet again: You are in fact ignorant. He also claims to be an editor "with experience". A serious wiki editor with experience does not speak so ignorantly and disrespectfully about others. A wiki editor examines facts without judging others, as is the case in discriminatory environments. Therefore, he is not a wiki editor and is most likely a poser. He seems to be a sensitive american "man" who feels everyone is against him or his american way of thinking. He must understand that not everyone will like him or his background. I have also noticed that another user named, Seb, may be the same person. He's probably using dual usernames in wiki. As a result of the above valid points, I urge blocking him for a long while so he learns to respect others on this forum. Again, he's broken wiki rules on respect for others 3 times. Thank you. Ingrid4hubby (talk) 04:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

lol I already told you I'm not american, and I don't have an "american way of thinking" -whatever that means. Go and order a sockpuppet investigation of Seb and myself. Oh and you forget the part about me being wiki editor in "good standing". Love, CJ DUB (talk) 12:16, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

PS: didn't you get banned this week already under the IP: User:69.86.162.170? Tootles!, CJ DUB (talk) 12:31, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that user, CJ DUB, the european-hating american with psych issues, got blocked for a short period of time. However, can we extend the block?

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 05:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Someone please ban User:Ingrid4hubby and sock puppets User:66.108.40.200, User:69.86.162.170

For a list of issues with this user please see the 2009 Archive of this page that was just created. [1]

Short list:
1 accusing people of racism
2 labeling people as illiterate
3 accusing people of vandalism
4 calling people "kindergartener"
5 referring to people as being mentally ill or retarded
6 anti american comments to all anglophone editors.
7 anti anglophone comments
8 misandrous comments
9 Previous ban of sock puppet User:69.86.162.170
10 generally unconstuctive comments
11 homophobic comments

My personl fave: "Therefore, based on my experiences with americans, I have no choice but to assume that the ones replying to me in a discriminatory way are americans"

Nuff said. CJ DUB (talk) 03:55, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks like CJ DUB is still obsessed with me. Look at him... he writes a LONG list of things he THINKS I stated. He's been blocked twice and still hasn't learned his lesson.

Now watch this everyone. He's going to report me to the FBI on grounds that I insulted him.

I feel sorry for him.

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 17:17, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Ingrud4hubby, CJ DUB has never been blocked, just take a look at the block log. You on the other hand have been blocked for making personal attacks (check your block log). If you continue to be abusive, you will be blocked for longer than 24 hours. Consider this your final warning on the matter. Nev1 (talk) 18:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Nev1, why can't you and CJ DUB just leave us alone. If you keep harassing people, you will be blocked like CJ DUB was. And I don't have to check your phoney block log since I come here everyday and am able to edit wiki pages with no problem. But I did see a page that stated that CJ DUB was blocked. And what I don't understand from you is that you threaten me with being blocked, yet, CJ DUB launched personal attacks upon me but you don't say anything to him. Does that sound right to you? Why can't you tell ALL parties involved to cease from making attacks to be fair to everyone? This is the one-sidedness that I speak of in the next paragraph that is unfair to those who are not american. Just because people come from europe or other places or because they dislike your culture or your politics, it doesn't mean you should hate them. You can't control people or their feelings towards you.

Wiki is a place where people contribute their time and energy to enlighten the world, not to enlighten one nation or culture only. Wiki should not be read solely from an american point of view. I come here to contribute to and correct articles because many articles state inaccuracies that must be corrected. This is done because many of them are written from a point of view that is one-sided, typically, from an american experience. Not all articles are one-sided, though. But the ones that are, often time do not represent the whole truth. Therefore, other voices from elsewhere are encouraged to contribute and correct them to eliminate this one-sided factor. We welcome these other voices. And if you feel that you are being treated unfairly by the editors because they say your contributions are not up to par with their american standards, then, speak up about it and complain! Never forget: Wiki is for all voices, not for one voice. Let's unite to get rid of this hate and bais. Threre's enough hate in the world already.

I'm off on a long vacation soon, so hopefully when I return, you people will have cooled off.

Ingrid4hubby (talk) 11:56, 24 August 2009 (UTC)