Talk:Michael Jackson

Main pic

Why is it of him in the 80's at the white house? I'm sure wsomeone could get an updated pic for the article. 76.223.248.62 (talk) 22:22, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

It has to be an image which is copyright-free: please see the FAQ at the top of this page. Rodhullandemu 22:27, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Article size

I hate to drag this up again, but the article size has now hit 130kb, and going through the edit history is like watching a snail. Since MJ's death the article has grown and acquired some cruft that could be removed. The article needs to be at least 10% smaller than it currently is.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 11:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't agree with editing an article just because it's too big. I do agree, however, that 'cruft' can be removed and, where appropriate, sub articles created but if neither of these succeed in knocking 10% off the article size I'm not sure it's such a big deal. RaseaC (talk) 12:37, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

There are some serious WP:SIZE issues developing at the moment and the article needs shortening for both technical and editorial reasons. For many computers and connections article size over 100kb is undesirable.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:44, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

And that's all very well, which is why I have no objection to it if it can be done. RaseaC (talk) 12:46, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

There appears to be reluctance to open dicussion about what information can be removed and what is not relevant to the article. For example the information about A Place with No Name could be replaced with a see main article tag considering that there is already a sizeable article about the leaked song. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 15:05, 1 September 2009 (UTC))

Im getting a little bit frustrated with the progress regarding the size of this article. Wikipedia is very clear about the rules for sizes of article and it is no reflection of the content of the article. Wikipedia should be accessible for all and those running slower computers or slower access to the internet should not be hindered from accessing the article simply because it is too large. We can do this the nice easy way which is to get loads of editors involved and have an open discussion or we can do it the more difficult time-consuming way and bring the article to the attention of administrators or even the wikipedia board about splitting the article up or removing excessive details. I still stand by my previous suggestion that the article should be split into Michael Jackson and The Music of Michael Jackson. either way something should be done to address this issue even if it means nominating this article as a new wikipedia project for special attention. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 00:15, 2 September 2009 (UTC))

OK, let's get this started then. Assuming there is a reason for trimming the article I would agree that we could have an article for MJ, the person, then a separate one for his music. All of the content currently on the article would fit into either of these, with films/controversies etc. in the MJ article, then just Jackson 5/solo work info on his music article. I have no interest in putting any effort into creating either of these articles, but I agree that, yes, it should probably be done. RaseaC (talk) 00:27, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

There is no reason to split a biography into two different articles, simply reduce the amount of excessive detail already present or transfer it to established main articles (ex: controversies or albums). This might be a good time to go through a WP:PR or a WP:FAR. The hysteria of Jackson's death has subsided and the number of editor wishing to cram up-to-the-minute details are gone or have concentrated their efforts on the main Death of Michael Jackson article. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 00:27, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

the only reason i suggested splitting the two articles is that even after much fo the cruft or excess detail has been removed, there is still a strong case that the article will exceed 100kb at which point wikipedia suggests that the article should be split into smaller more specific articles. the fact is that MJ has both notable musical and personal achievements/controversies which could warrant to seperate pages. It could certainly make the article/subject easier to navigate as in my opinion people visit this page to either learn about the person or the music. This existing page could become a general summary and contain the links to his albums, discography, awards, family members etc.

When this article originally passed FAC it was 112 kilobytes long. It won't take that big of an effort to get it down to 100kb exactly. His music is already easy enough to navigate, considering his albums, singles, main discography and video pages and the same goes for the personal controversies which have their own articles as well. All it takes is transferring excess detail to established articles. It a matter of cutting and pasting and copy-editing whats left for grammar. The Bookkeeper (of the Occult) 01:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Other media

i say we do a section about the books, games and merchendise. --Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 20:41, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

See the above section on article size. The primary purpose of Michael Jackson is a biography of his life and music. Anything new and of substantial length would have to be split off into a new article, because at 130kb the article has WP:SIZE issues already.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:03, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Jackson death certificate amended

Michael Jackson's death certificate has been amended to reflect his cause of death as homicide. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8233250.stm may be a better scource but there you are if you want it. -- Drappel (talk) 09:50, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, this could be used in Death of Michael Jackson. The current wording in the lead here makes clear that the LA coroner ruled the death a homicide. Incidentally, the BBC report quoted above and others today are saying that the "coroner's van" video was a hoax by German TV station RTL. This is old news, because it was known last week. Do keep up, media folk...--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:20, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Please take out the final line after cause of death

There is an inappropriate line at the end of cause of death section about Farrah Faucett. This must be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.114.79.10 (talk) 00:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Alleged homosexuality

There are many Wikipedia articles of famous people who were likely (but not proved to have been) homosexual or bisexual, but whom never admitted it, including: Cary Grant, Randolph Scott, William Shakespeare, Edward Heath. They have the issue mentioned significantly in their articles (often having a sexuality section), and are in the LGBT Project. Since the 1980s, if not earlier, millions of people believe him to have been in the closet, and there is a great deal of media coverage about that. Why is Jackson's article different, having been 'straightwashed'? Editing it now (talk) 12:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Got any reliable sources? Fritzpoll (talk) 12:43, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

The key word here is "alleged". As regular readers of this talk page will know by now, the article does not include controversial statements that have to be prefixed by all-purpose weasel words like "claimed" and "alleged". These are words used by lazy tabloid journalists when they are unable to prove something. If there is no reliable sourcing, then the material is unsuitable for the article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:52, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Should his affair with Scott Thorsen be mentioned? (RichardSalway (talk) 14:08, 3 September 2009 (UTC))

Only if you are prepared to accept supermarket tabloid claims. Note the use in this article of that all-purpose weasel word "claim". Life must be easy for tabloid journalists when they can write whatever they like and use the word "claim" as a get-out clause.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:25, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Not his children

The introduction should mention that those three children were not his. (RichardSalway (talk) 14:18, 3 September 2009 (UTC))

Reliable sources please. --Onorem♠Dil 14:22, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

If you know this for sure, then you must have access to reliable information rather than the usual hearsay.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:27, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

No source is needed, we all know for a fact he was not their father. (RichardSalway (talk) 14:27, 3 September 2009 (UTC))

<ref>We all know it</ref> is not a valid source. Sorry. --Onorem♠Dil 14:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

A black guy fathers three white kids? Yeah, whatever! (RichardSalway (talk) 14:36, 3 September 2009 (UTC))

If you really believe that "we all know for a fact" is a reliable source, then you should not be editing Wikipedia.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

It will be interesting to see whether Mark Lester or Macaulay Culkin was the real father to the three children. (RichardSalway (talk) 14:45, 3 September 2009 (UTC))

Mark Lester made his claim to a UK tabloid.[5] The Macaulay Culkin claim is just silly and trolling. The consensus is that no statements will be made about the parentage of the children due to WP:BLP issues. Wikipedia is not a supermarket tabloid.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

It can happen, today in days there are men getting pregnent, and there is an africanamerican as president, which are good things, (don't know if a men pregnent is good) the point is that it is possibly, on the time micheal had his kids he was already pale, and Debbie Rowe has white skin so it is very possibly that MJ is there father, unless you have very reliable sources(not meaning Tabloids, gossip ect.). --Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 14:57, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Bleaching his skin doesn't make him white. Jackson was a homosexual paedophile who never had sex with a woman in his entire life. He was NOT the father. (RichardSalway (talk) 14:59, 3 September 2009 (UTC))