Talk:Jiang Zemin

An event in this article is a March 27 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment)

Male Prostitute

I find the claim that Jiang Zemin did a brief stint as a male prostitute highly unlikely. I threw on a "citation needed" tag in the interest of (extreme) fair-mindedness.

Tiananmen Massacre

The text says that Jiang wasn't directly involved in the Tiananmen Massacre, and (on the text about the Tiananmen Massacre it says) he was chosen for chairmen of the party because of his involvement in suppressing other demonstartions.

Putting it this way isn't quite true...

A Chinese friend of mine, once explained it to me like this:

At the time of the Tiananmen Massacre there where two powers: Deng and Zhao. Deng wanted to supress the students and Zhao was supporting them. Yet only Deng had an Army. But Zhao had a supporter who had an army. But at that time this army was in America.

So they ordered the army to come back so that Zhao could prevent Deng from launching his army at the students.

Now that is where Jiang Zemin comes in: Jiang was the head of Shanghai at that time... So Jiang and Deng and another guy get like to gether and plan what they can do. So when the airplane with Zhao's army comes back... the army doesn't belong to Deng, yet the airplane does... so they order that airplane to fly to Shanghai instead of Beijing... saying there would be some emergency or something in Shanghai...

And so Jiang keeps them in Shangai for more than a week so as to make it possible for Deng's army to massacre those students.

Also at the time shortly before the massacre in Beijing Jiang travels to Beijing as well.

As to who gave the order to shoot the students... whether it was Jiang or Deng... this I do not know.

Bu his involvement and his deeds at the time of the massacre... where what made Deng choose Jiang for chairmen.

So saying that Jiang wasn't involved in the Tiananmen Massacre, but only in other massacres is defintily wrong.

So of course afterwards they covered it up... Zhao got removed and Jiang took his post.

Still in China they try to cover up the massacre... or if you go to the Chinese Embassy, and ask them about the massacre or any other suppression that is NOW going on in China... they will simply tell you that it doesn't exist, never has existed, and that those are all just lies made up by people who are trying to overthrow Communism or something (-:

1) Deng was commander in chief of all Chinese armed services

2) Most local and provincial commanders of Police, Armed Police (think national guard), and Army garrisons refused the order to move against students, not out of support for Zhao but out of principle. 3) Regiments finally sent into Beijing were from out of province 4) If you go to any US Embassy around the world for a visa, they will grill you like a potential terrorist. If you inquire about US war atrocities in Iraq, they will have marines escort you out.

16 Party Congress

I updated the Jiang entry to cover the recent developments at the 16th Party Congress

172

Spoken language

I fixed the chart that referred to Jiang as Deng's as "Party leader." In the post-Mao period, Deng Xiaoping never held the post of Party "leadership." The chairmanship had been abolished upon the downfall of Hua Guofeng and Deng wielded power informally, having his protégés anointed as Party Secretaries. Deng was the "core" of the "second generation," while first Hu Yaobang, then Zhao Ziyang, and finally Jiang Zemin nominally held the highest Party posts. 172 03:44, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Any personal things? Colipon 04:21, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

"A communist leader...fluent in Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Romanian, French and English" I don't know if this is actually true. Maybe he know some vocabulary in these languages but one cannot say that he is fluent in all of them... Colipon 04:23, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Russian is certain. He received his higher education in economics in Moscow. In addition, Chinese Communist cadres of his generation who started rising up CPC ranks in the late '40s and '50s learned Russian in droves, as Russia was the PRC's principal source of technology and industrial equipment at the time. Also more than willing to show off that he's well-versed in famous works of Western literature, he is known to quote Tolstoy, Pushkin, Chekhov and Turgenev. Romanian is certain as well, which can be verified by reading up on his record as an ambassador to Romania - a key Chinese ally at the time (during the high tide of the Cultural Revolution). Ceausescu, of course, was a maverick in the Warsaw Pact, condemning Soviet intervention in Czechoslovakia in '68; reaching out to the West for trade and diplomatic ties; courting Soviet rivals for leadership of international Communism, such as China and Albania; and later even developing close ties with Soviet foes, such as Israel. Chinese-Romanian ties were a high priority for both parties when Jiang was ambassador; so the accounts attesting to his proficiency in Romanian are believable. English, however, is a bit iffy. We've all heard him engage in small talk in English; cite English works, such as the US Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address, "Hamlet," novels by Mark Twain, and even Elvis Presley songs; and start off interviews in English. He hasn't been immersed in an English-speaking environment, as he has been immersed in Romanian- and Russian-speaking settings for a number of years. His French and Japanese are largely self-taught as well. Perhaps we could say "fluent" in Romanian and Russian; and capable of engaging foreign dignitaries with his grounding in Japanese, French, and English language and literature.

Anyhow, this is not really important. Biographies and profiles of Jiang just bring up these anecdotes to point out his eagerness to to show his familiarity with other cultures and their histories. His career, after all, has been heavily focused on deeping China's ties to foreign investors and its diplomatic ties. In fact, when he replaced the disgraced Zhao Ziyang in '89, he was seen as an acceptable public image for the PRC - not being linked to the unpleasantries of restoring socio-political stability in the aftermath of the Tiananmen crisis. But he was also well-known for his abilities to court foreigners in a friendly manner. As Mayor of Shanghai, the urbane and cosmopolitian cadre was ideally suited for for transforming Shanghai into the international commercial hub that it is today, luring a steady stream of venture capital from Hong Kong, Japan and the West. And during his 13 years in power as CPC chief and later President, Jiang's mission largely focused on helping open trade relations and spark China's rapid modernization and development.

Thus, it's not really important if he's able to able to function fully in Japanese and English, but that we're mentioning a well-known characteristic of his background and personality that was emphasized a great deal in PRC efforts to strenghten China's international standing. 172 01:45, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Just sort of wanted the accuracy into all encyclopedic topics. I say your suggestion of fluent in Romanian and Russian; and capable of engaging foreign dignitaries with his grounding in Japanese, French, and English language and literature. Colipon 20:00, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Early life

In the Background of Jiang Zemin, I don't know who add (now Nanjing University) after National Central University. I think we shuold not ignore his three years at Nanjing Central Univesity; but it's also not proper to indicate Nanjing Central University is now Nanjing University. So I'd like to delete it. The history of this university is very complex. Few people thoroughly know it.

During the war against Janpanese invasion, the Wang Ching-wei Goverment(汪精民政府) established Central University in Nanjing in 1940, with campus located in the fomer campus of University of Nanking (The campus of former Central University was changed to be the hospital for land forces during the period), and claimed to be the successor of Central University. The fact is that Central University had moved from Nanjing to Chongqing in 1937. Jiang Zemin, studied at Nanjing Central University from 1943 to 1945, not Chongqing Central University. Actually Nanjing Central University (1940-1945) and Chongqing Central University(Today's Nanjing University) are two universities (So in the resume of Jiang Zemin or his schoolmates, I think we should not ignore their year(s) at Nanjing Central Univesity; on the other hand, it's also not proper to indicate Nanjing Central University is now Nanjing University). In 1945 after Chiang Kai-shek Government((蒋介石政府) came back to Nanjing, the students of former Nanjing Central University (Wang Ching-wei Government) were admitted to enter Central University which moved bach from Chongqing, if they passed the entrance examination in 1946. Currently officially Nanjing University also admit the alumni of Nanjing Central University (1940-1945) and take them as its alumni. (From Talk:Nanjing University) Dictioner 03:35, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

---

The main image of this article as of 20th Sept 2004 15:25 UTC is an image of Jiang Zemin, and the caption is: "President Jiang Zemin with his successor, Vice President Hu Jintao, in the background"

Should this be changed to account for the fact that Hu Jintao is now President? Perhaps something akin to:

"Former-President Jiang Zemin with his successor, Then-Vice President Hu Jintao, in the background" Hazzamon 15:25, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

---

In the Hu Jintao discussion, it is mentioned that the picture of him in the Zhongshan suit ("Mao suit") is a doctored photo - it seems Jiang's is too. Since Mr Jiang is no longer CMC Chairman, I have changed his photo to one in a suit.

Jiang's Presidency

I think some actual stuff about Jiang's years as President is missing. It seems there is a sudden jump from his Ascendancy to the 16th Party Congress. Colipon+(T) 22:39, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Ok, after about six months I have finally done a rewrite of the article. The part about Taiwan definitely needs to be added. Colipon+(T) 07:15, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

His major evil deed.

He betrayed all Chinese and gave up the rights to take back the lands unfairly taken away by Russia. This is his major evil deed!

You betrayed all Wikipedians by making an idiotic comment like that. Colipon+(T) 03:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Kuhn Book

I am currently reading the RL Kuhn book. I think it's pretty biased. Any views? Colipon+(T) 07:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Persecution of Falun Gong

Not sure if this has been raised before, but there does not seem to be much information about Jiang and the persecution of Falun Gong. I was thinking that an appropriate comparison would be a biography of Hitler which only mentioned in passing that he was responsible for the Holocaust. This has become something of an important issue recently, particularly with the Canadian report about organ harvesting. The Olympics are coming up so maybe these issues, the CCP's evil deeds with regard to Falun Gong, will become more prominent. I would like to see a section about Jiang's initiation and role in the persecution of Falun Gong. I will start doing some research and check this board for responses and ideas about whether it is appropriate or has been tried before, etc. --Asdfg12345 01:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think the article should mention his ruthless persecution of Falun Gong. It is a human rights violation and amounts to genocide (considering that his government try to kill off a whole group). Wooyi 03:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

See Reductio ad Hitlerum, Biography of living persons, and undue weight. Considering the FLG issue and Jiang's involvement has not been largely explored by much third parties outside of the pro-PRC sources and pro-FLG sources, these allegations shall remain as such. And this is the wrong place to vent your personal opinion on how evil you think JZM is.--PCPP (talk) 16:46, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The table should be wikified

The table in Jiang Zemin should be wikified. Yue Qi 16:28, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Citations

This article doesn't seem to do a very good job citing its sources. I see there is a bibliography at the end; while that's good, it doesn't tell us where to find sources for specific information in the article. I'm adding citation requests to various items in the article in the hopes we can improve this article per Wikipedia standards. Heimstern Läufer 19:21, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Your concern has been noted. I just added a lot of references. Colipon+(T) 23:35, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I saw, excellent work! The article already looks much better. There may still be more that needs to be done, but this is a substantial improvement. Heimstern Läufer 23:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Biography and Controversy

I was asked, anonymously, by the person who first posted this section to develop it. I've tried to do so adhering to NPOV, citing sources.

Incorrect date

In an encounter with a Hong Kong reporter in 2002 regarding the central government's apparent "imperial order" of supporting Tung Chee-hwa to seek a second term as Chief Executive of Hong Kong, Jiang branded the Hong Kong journalists infamously as "too simple, sometimes naive" in English.

This happened on Oct 27, 2000. Here's a news report covered that event from CNN, http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/east/10/27/china.hongkong.02/index.html