Talk:Michael Jackson

Jackson dressed in women's clothing

In 2006 Michael Jackson was caught by photographers dressed in women's clothing in a shopping mall in the Gulf state of Bahrain. Jackson was dressed in a black abaya (a traditional full-length robe), a veil covering his face, dark sunglasses and gloves. Jackson was accompanied by three young, Western-looking children, their faces covered with black veils, and an adult woman wearing an abaya over jeans, her face partly covered, and bodyguards. Shouldn't this be included in the article? He loved to cover his face. Wikiwiserick (talk) 22:22, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

• Why? --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 22:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

This was shortly after the 2005 trial and shows that Jackson tried to hide his predilection for being with children. Wikiwiserick (talk) 22:37, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Says who? Rodhullandemu 22:40, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

LOL MJ HAD three (western) children, as you might have heard, and had no reason to hide the association.FrauBluecher (talk) 01:19, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Several newspapers reported the event. Wikiwiserick (talk) 22:53, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it's noteworthy enough to include in the article. Jackson was always very aggressive about avoiding paparazzi. What makes this incident special? Mktyscn (talk) 23:02, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Is he referring to this? http://twitpic.com/h6w0o? MaJic (talk) 23:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

No, I think he is refering to this. Mktyscn (talk) 23:39, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

The person photographed dressed in womens clothing, wasn't Michael Jackson. They were fake photos and there is no need to have that info posted on to Michael Jackson's page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben Scarr (talk • contribs) 08:43, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Second child sexual abuse allegations

Both quotes are out of context. It seems as if Liz Taylor knew Gavin Arvizo. This is not the case, if I am not very much mistaken. She was talking about other children, MJ and herself hanging out. The Dr Katz quote makes it seem as if he was calling MJ innocent, which was not his intention. These quotes should just be deleted. FrauBluecher (talk) 01:15, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Liz Taylor didn't know Gavin Arvizo, but it think Michael Jackson was introduced to him through Chris Tucker from charity work Chris Tucker did. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben Scarr (talk • contribs) 08:47, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Micheal Jackson was not under "sexual Molestation" charges during his "this is it" tour. This trial took place in 2003. Please correct this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.149.71 (talk) 18:44, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Could you explain where the article says this? I can't find it.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:00, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Instruments

How come under "Instruments", Michael Jackson's has only been listed as vocals. I'm aware no one in public had ever seen Michael playing any intruements.

Michael Jackson is listed on various album notes as having played guitar, keyboard, drums and percussion. For example on the song Morphine he is listed as guitar player (along with Slash) and drums, and Don't Stop Till You Get Enough as percsssion player.

Teddy Riley said in 1992 Rolling Stone Magazine cover article on Michael Jackson that he was a brilliant guitar player ?, and writer of serveral books on Michael Jackson, Adrian Grant who saw Michael working during the HIStory album recording sessions said Michael Jackson was a brilliant keyboard player and that was the instrument he used the most. Adrian Grant has also recently (as has Rodney Jerkins) said Michael Jackson was very technical in the recording studo and could really work it, and is greatly underestimated by the public in the studio. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben Scarr (talk • contribs) 13:27, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

didn't michael jackson beatbox [5] and play Piano [6] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 01:00, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Many vocalists can also play instruments; however the infobox should only list what an artist is primarily known for. In Jackson's case it's definitely vocals.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:05, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, the infobox used to list Jackson as an inventor due to his work on the anti-gravity lean [7], but this is not something for which he is primarily known.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:13, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I still don't see why Michael Jackson should still only be have vocal's listed as intruments played just because he isn't known by the wider public as playing keyboard and drums etc. Madonna is has guitar and percussion listed as intruments played, yet it's widely known her guitar playing (though she can play guitar) is mainly a stage prop and she has never played percussion in public. Even Britney Spears is has piona listed on her page of intruments played as piano yet she's never played piano in public. So I feel thay the intruments Michael Jackson can play should be listed. Espcially since he played guitar, keyboard and drums on quite a number of his songs from 1995-2001, when his participation on playing intruments on his music increased a lot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben Scarr (talk • contribs) 08:56, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

ben scarr is right also justin timberlake is listed as a beatboxer michael jackson also does this so he sould also be listed as one [8] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Clifffrichard (talk • contribs) 11:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

MICHAEL JACKSON IS VERY WELL KNOWN FOR PLAYING INSTRUMENTS AND SHOULD BE LISTED AS SUCH, BEFORE HIS DEATH HE WAS WORKING ON AN ALL INSTRUMENTAL ALBUM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.149.71 (talk) 18:29, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

The infobox is not the best place for a lot of detail. The average person will see Jackson as a singer and dancer, and this is what the infobox says. Jackson's studio albums such as Thriller made extensive use of session musicians, so it is important to avoid giving the impression that he was a primary instrumental contributor to his albums.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:37, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

How the average sees Michael Jackson as just a singer and dancer is not a good enough reason not to list the intruments he could play. The average person who comes to Wikipedia to get information on Michael Jackson want to find out procise information on him and a little bit more. Michael Jackson isn't known as a songwriter/composer/producer etc, he's often referred to as an entertainer and the public underestimate Jackson's muscial and technical prowess in the recording studio. Also it's more than likely Michael Jackson played keyboard on his Home Demos of Don't Stop Till You Get Enough, Workin' Day & Night and Billie Jean that are available on the Off The Wall and Thriller Special Editions.

Once again if Britney Spears who to the average person is only known as singer and dancer who doesn't write/compose her own songs has Piano listed as an intrument played, then why shouldn't Michael Jackson who is known as not only a singing and dancing genius, but also a musical genius.

If the intsruments he can play, and did play on his albums (especially from 1995-2001) than "arranger" should be added to his Occupation(s) as he was intrumental in how his music sounded, and would direct his guitar players like the laste David Williams to imitate the sounds he created by with his voice, intruments etc. Also if his listed intruments aren't added to Instrument(s), then they should be added to part of his Wikipedia biography in in the HIStory and Invincible parts to point out his increased imput on playing instruments on his album. Michael Jackson wasn't just an entertainer but a musican and his passport in the 1980's (which can be seen in the inside cover of his autobiography)listed his profession as a musician. Not putting any information on any part of Michael Jackson's Wikipedia page is a diservice to the average person, because it's something they would be interested to find out. I do not wish to mislead the public that Michael Jackson played all the instruments on albums like Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous. But I do think the general public should be aware of how involved Michael Jackson was in creating his own music and of his multiple talents inside the recording studio.

Michael Jackson co-directed the Jam and Blood On The Dance Floor music videos, but I'm not asking for director to be added as he only co-directed 2 music videos. But Michael Jackson did play one instrument on Don't Stop Till You Get Enough (Off The Wall) and Beat It (Thriller) he's listed as Drum Case Beater (maybe not an instrument ?). But he played instruments on many songs from 1995-2001. And as Michael Jackson is listed as an arranger on not just vocals, but also synth arranger etc on all of the songs he solely wrote/composed from 1979-87 he will have had good knowledge of those instruments who have been able to be the arranger. Therefore a large part of informations about Michael Jackson's musicianship is missing by ingnoring and not acknowledging the instruments he could play.

PRINCE IS A FAMILY NAME

I posted clear evidence that this statement: "commonly known as Prince (named after Jackson's longtime friend and rival Prince)" is false as MJ's grandfather was called Prince and my topic was ignored and put to the archive earlier than older topics? What the hell? FrauBluecher (talk) 00:24, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

As I see it, you didn't post a reliable source for this. However, you could have changed the article yourself, citing such a source, and run the risk of being reverted. That would have triggered a discussion here. Whereas you may be right, it isn't clear so far that you are sufficiently interested to follow up the issue. However, now you have the opportunity to make your proposition plain, and I've no doubt that it will be given the consideration it deserves. Rodhullandemu 00:39, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, problems here. At Katherine Jackson it says that "she was the daughter of Martha Upshaw and Prince Albert Screws". However, no reliable sourcing is given. At Findagrave.com, Michael Jackson's great grandfather is named as Prince Screws of Russell County, Alabama. Although it is clear that people have said this in good faith, there needs to be some firm sourcing, and during a Google search I was unable to find any. Help is requested here.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:38, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

One of the sources given in Katherine Jackson is My Family, the Jacksons (October 1990, ISBN-13: 978-0312923501). I've never seen this book, and was astonished to look it up on Amazon.com and to find it selling at $499 new and $161.99 used.[9] This must be a rare out of print book. Has anyone here ever seen a copy, as it would qualify as a reliable source?--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:52, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I thought I couldn't do anything, because of the little lock on top of the article. Anyway, even if we have problems finding a reliable source for his grandfather's name, it's pretty likely that this is not just a rumor and the claim he named his sons for *Prince* Prince therefor is, so the (very very likely) false info should be deleted in any case.FrauBluecher (talk) 13:46, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

And here is Michael Jackson's last will naming his children: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0701091mjwill1.html I'd say this is a reliable source that Prince's name is Prince Michael Jackson.FrauBluecher (talk) 16:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

911 Tape

Maybe I'm alone on this, but isn't the 911 recording a little much? Mc8755 (talk) 19:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

A few days after his death 12 fans comitted suicide —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.94.79.17 (talk) 21:34, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

The 911 recording has been broadcast by the mainstream media and does not contain any graphic content. However, it already appears in Death of Michael Jackson, and I wonder whether it needs to be in Michael Jackson as well. Thoughts, please.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:00, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Ghost Sightings

I don't think I believe in all the sightings of Michael Jackson's ghost, but a lot of other people seem to. Could we open a section on this in the main article? I found some well-researched information at http://www.witchology.com/news/2009/2009-07-17-Michael-Jackson-Ghost.php.Formicarius (talk) 14:41, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, but have you got any reliable evidence that Michael Jackson is still alive?--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying he's still alive. There have been a lot of reports in the media about what people have said are sightings of his ghost and so this forms a significant part of people's reactions to his death. It's like people can't believe, or don't want to believe he's dead, so they start seeing his ghost everywhere. The article I found on the web seemed to have looked at quite a number of different sources to build a bigger picture and I thought we could use this to put something together for the wikipedia article. Formicarius (talk) 15:38, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

See WP:V. The requirement for inclusion is Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. If you have found a reliable source showing that Michael Jackson is still alive, we would all be interested to hear it.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I hear what you're saying. I'm not disagreeing with that. But I am not saying Michael Jackson is still alive and I am not trying to provide evidence that he is still alive. What we are talking about is ghost sightings and someone has to be dead before you can see their ghost, right? Formicarius (talk) 15:59, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying his ghost is real either. But there is verifiable evidence that people believe they have seen his ghost. That's what I think deserves inclusion, so that people can get an unbiased wikipedia view of it. Formicarius (talk) 16:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think a mention of ghost sightings after his death really belongs in the article, especially since the article already has WP:SIZE issues. The article is supposed to be about Jackson himself (his life, career, and accomplishments), not about the silliness of some his adoring fans. Besides, there's no reason to take any of the ghost sightings seriously. Mktyscn (talk) 16:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Em, "silliness of his fans"? Is that something you really want to be saying? And what is the "no reason" not to take the sightings seriously? Formicarius (talk) 16:15, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I said silliness of some of his fans, not all of them. People who make claims of celebrity ghost sightings are either looking for attention, or looking to make money off the foolish people who believe them. Ghost sightings should never be taken seriously because there has never been proof that anyone has ever actually seen a ghost. Such claims have no place in an encyclopedia article on Michael Jackson. Mktyscn (talk) 16:24, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

You don't know why people make claims of celebrity ghost sightings, or have you like got a PhD on the subject? And it's not about proving that ghosts are real, it's about taking account of people's reactions to the death of Michael Jackson whether you like them or not. Formicarius (talk) 16:37, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

The source isn't a WP:RS. END OF (GHOST) STORY! leaky_caldron (talk) 16:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

What you are trying to base this observation upon is a non-falsifiable theory.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:32, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

No, I'm not. I'm not trying to prove that ghosts are real. Read what I said above. Formicarius (talk) 16:40, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

It is probably just like in Elvis case when in the 70's, 80's pepole thoght he faked his death. --Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 16:35, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

See [10]. People say very silly things about Elvis Presley and Michael Jackson.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 16:49, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Fans like to belive that there idols have not passed or the press just needs a good story on paper. --Pedro J. ^{the rookie} 17:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Possibly worth a brief mention in the "reaction" section of Death of Michael Jackson. Certainly not here.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:26, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

OK, now we're getting some constructive feedback.Formicarius (talk) 19:49, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Only if there are sufficient reliable sources. The one provided does not cut the mustard. –xeno^talk 19:53, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

You're not really going to find any reliable source for Jackson ghost sightings because the press doesn't report them (because it's not credible news). The consensus so far is against inclusion of such reports. Besides, the article is already too big. Mktyscn (talk) 21:23, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Image?

I don't think that's the best image of Jackson. Couldn't we at least try to fine a better image of him? Shark96z (talk) 22:20, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

It has to be an image licensed for free use as required by WP:NFCC. Such images are usually taken by fans at public appearances, and so they don't usually look very good unfortunately. Mktyscn (talk) 22:30, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

I know that, but I was just stating that is a very low quality image. I think File:Michaeljackson (cropped).jpg would look better than the one that's already there... Shark96z (talk) 23:11, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

What happened to the 1984 White House image?--Pawnkingthree (talk) 00:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

It's right here: File:Michael Jackson 1984.jpg. I don't know why it got taken off. Shark96z (talk) 01:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Spelling.

I don't entirely know how Wikipedia works, so I couldn't say whose error this is, but on multiple pages that link to MJ's Wiki, and also the main address of MJ's Wiki, have his name spelt wrong. Surely this would be one of the first things to be corrected anywhere?!? It says Micheal Jackson - whereas it should be Michael Jackson. The only reason I noticed this is that my middle name - and my Dad's name - is Michael too....

I just typed that and realised a slight mistake - if his Wiki address has Michael_Jackson OR Micheal_Jackson it goes to the same place. So apologies for that, clearly for those who can't spell there's a fall-back. But it's still wrong on at least this site - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleurisy.