Talk:The Byrds

Trvivia?

The Trivia section is a bit messed up. It's just a list of bands that they've influenced or had their songs covered by. No real interesting facts abuot the band like you might expect. Might it be renamed "Legacy" or "Influence" or something, then made into paragraphs? Monkeynutter

Sounds reasonable to me! InvictaHOG 11:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Picture

Is anybody going to supply a picture of the band, or should we delete the box altogether here? 147.70.242.21 23:20, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I put one in. For bands that broke up or deceased artists, I try and find a promo shot from the label because they're easier to verify. The one I found says it's OK for "internet review outlets", in which this may count. Otherwise, the site I find it has to say if it's from Michael Ochs or Photofest so it can go up here. FotoPhest (talk) 00:44, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Gram/Gene Clark/Parsons

• Hi, can someone just confirm that Gram Parsons, Gene Clark and Gene Parsons are in fact three entirely separate people (I'm trying to clean-up another article without knowing a whole lot about this subject area, please forgive my ignorance!) Jdcooper 18:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

• Yes, they are 3 separate people. Gram Parsons (born Cecil Ingram Connor) & Gene Parsons are no relation. Gene Clark (born Harold Eugene Clark) is also not related.Budrocket 09:35, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

• Yes and Michael Clarke (1946-1993) is a fourth one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Clarke_(musician) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.38.54 (talk) 05:25, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Chesnut Mare, written with...

...New York psychologist Jacques Levy for "Gene Tryp", a C&W musical version of Henrik Ibsen's "Peer Gynt"... Stephan Koenig (still my pleasure, anyway).

Not to nit-pick...

This thing reads like an advertisement. Way off what the wiki should be going for.

I've taken out "The Byrds are widely considered to have been one of the most important and influential bands of the 1960s", which, apart from being weasel words, is equally true of a couple of dozen other bands. 83.70.35.36 21:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

One weird thing

Why is the source for McGuinn being the only Byrd to play on "Mr Tambourine Man" a CNN article from 2006?? This has been common knowledge since the 1970s, and appears in every book about the band. This source seems misleading, because it makes the fact look like either rumour, or something recently discovered. Does it need a source at all? It's just a plain fact, like the Monkees not playing on their early records.

I've changed it for now, anyway. MrBronson 03:03, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Also made it look less like "an advert". Quite a bold rewrite in some parts, but the same information is there, and it's still basically the same article. Just tightened it up, added missing links and took out all the POV stuff. Still needs a bit more work. MrBronson 05:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

This should be incorporated into the existing text. See WP:TRIV. John Reaves 00:42, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

• Tom Petty, whose early single American Girl was sometimes mistaken by some listeners for a Byrds outtake or reunion recording, has covered So You Want To Be A Rock'N'Roll Star and I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better.
• Hüsker Dü covered Eight Miles High on an early single.
• Roxy Music covered Eight Miles High on their 1980 Flesh and Blood album.
• Robyn Hitchcock, who counts the Byrds as one of his biggest influences, has covered numerous of their songs both live and on record, amongst them: Bells Of Rhymney, Chimes Of Freedom, Draft Morning, Eight Miles High, I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better, Hickory Wind, Mr. Spaceman, Mr. Tambourine Man, Wild Mountain Thyme and You Ain't Going Nowhere.
• Roger McGuinn testified on July 11, 2000 for a U.S. Senate committee that The Byrds never received the royalties they were promised for their biggest hits, Mr. Tambourine Man and Turn! Turn! Turn!; they only received an advance that was split five ways and only amounted to "a few thousand dollars" per bandmember.
• Ride, An early 90's UK Shoegazer band, lists The Byrds as a primary influence. This influence is best demonstrated on the song "Like a Daydream" from their 1990 "Play" EP, or on the 1992 EP compilation "Smile", as well as on the entirety of the 1994 album, "Carnival of Light".
• Swervedriver, another 90's Shoegazer band also pays tribute to The Byrds with the song "The Birds" from their 1998 Album "99th Dream".

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McGuinn, Clark and Hillman

I was considering redirecting this here, but this article doesn't mention this conglomeration of three Byrds members who scored a top forty hit in 1979. Anyone here capable of tackling it? Chubbles 12:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Years active

I fail to see a reason why "1989-1990" should not be added to to the "Years Active" section. The band toured and recorded new material under the Byrds name. Those who revert my edit in that section should provide a reason as to why it shouldn't be there —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.199.244.228 (talk) 16:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, first, the onus is on you to provide a reason why it should included, since you want to add something. Secondly, there is a great deal of dispute of what constitutes the Byrds proper. A discussion of this in the article would be valid, as long as there are sources. But for the info box, it needs to be only the most uncontroversial information. Similar discussions at The Beatles have taken place, as to whether the new material for the Anthology series count as The Beatles proper. I believe we should use that as a precedent. freshacconcispeaktome 16:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

"Well, first, the onus is on you to provide a reason why it should included"

As I have already said two times, the band toured and recorded new material as "The Byrds". That, coupled with the legal ruling that any unit not containing the members who toured in 1990 as "The Byrds" could not use the Byrds name, should be reason enough to include it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.199.244.228 (talk • contribs)

Fair enough. We should wait for other editors to weigh in, however. And I need to find some information about policies and guidelines for infoboxes, about what is acceptable. freshacconcispeaktome 16:47, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it could be amended to read something like "1964-1973, reunion 1989-1990", comparable to the Cream article.63.199.244.228 (talk) 20:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Renamed from what?

In the Folk Rock section it says, "the band signed to Columbia Records and a few days later renamed themselves The Byrds."

What were they renamed from? Ganymede 901 (talk) 06:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

• Formed in Los Angeles in 1964. They were briefly known as "The Jet Set" and then "The Beefeaters".Kierzek (talk) 15:37, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

They also tried out various spellings of the sound 'birds' - including the clunky 'Burds' - before settling on The Byrds. 71.194.38.54 (talk) 05:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)Larry Siegel

Genres

I'd like to point out that the actual section headings indicate that they were pioneers of the various genres of psychedelia, country rock, etc. and the sections discuss it with sources. Therefore, the intro rightly states that they helped pioneer those genres. I fixed the lede to de-emphasize The Byrds "inventing" folk-rock, but rather helping to pioneer it. freshacconci talktalk 10:41, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I have to support the "un-pioneering" version. A lead-in should avoid that sort of description/wording. If it is in the article main body then it can be detailed there. But the lead should be more neutral. The Real Libs-speak politely 11:39, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough, but I think the original dispute was around the idea that they were involved with the other genres as well. The way it reads now at least mentions that, so I'll leave it at that. freshacconci talktalk 11:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Just wanted to offer my two-pence worth. Two things; As I've stated on my edit notes on the History page, the Byrds initially played folk-rock, it was only later that they moved into other areas and I feel that's an important fact to make the reader aware of in the introduction. Secondly, I think that the list of sub-genres that they dabbled in during their career (space rock, psychedelic rock, country rock) is important and should be kept but the band DID NOT dabble in jangle pop. Jangle pop is a genre from the 1980s that The Byrds were hugely influential on, but they didn't contribute to this genre directly. I think the wording needs to indicate that they were an influence on jangle pop - from that point of view, saying that they "helped pioneer" the listed sub-genres (as Freshacconci wanted to do) is more accurate. Kohoutek1138 15:00, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Explanation of edits to Parsons-Sweethearts paragraph

I changed several of the sentences in this paragraph because of syntax problems and a related issue (poor juxtaposition resulting from otherwise acceptable syntax). Regarding the juxtaposition, the sentences on Parsons refusing to play South Africa and his legal problems were written in such a way that it sounded as if there was a link between the two. The use of "Subsequently", which usually means "as a result", at the beginning of the second sentence reinforced this. The Sweethearts sentence posed a different problem: McGuinn's and Hillman's singing replaced Parsons' lead vocals, but the sentence said the album was released "with Parsons' lead vocals replaced by either McGuinn or Hillman." In this case, the names of the latter singers should be possessives, since neither one actually replaced the vocals. The possessives were weak, so I tried to turn the second half of the sentence around and still retain the sense of it (historical loss). I also replaced the weasel word "arguably" in the closing parenthetical with the adverb/verb "often credited" which alludes to those who argue this without settling the dispute. And one last syntax issue, the end of the parenthetical had to be changed because it sounded as if Parsons had legal problems with The Byrds. I wanted to explain these edits because I realized the problems were somewhat subtle and the need for revision might not be understood. Allreet (talk) 06:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Made two very small edits to your changes. Firstly, I inserted an indication that "many" of Parsons' lead vocals were changed, in order to illustrate that not all of them were (You're Still On My Mind, Hickory Wind and Life In Prison still survive on the album). The way it read before it sounded as if McGuinn & Hillman had replaced all of parsons' vocals. The Second edit I made was just to make a long sentence flow better (I changed "that featured" to "as well as" in the sentance about the songs that appeared on the album). Kohoutek1138 13:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Kohoutek1138. "Every writer needs an editor." In revising this without having the sources at hand, I took into account the possibility that not all of Parsons' vocals were replaced and pretty much stuck with what was here. Now what I'd like to know is was it "most" or "a few"? "Many" is equally imprecise but sounds odd, perhaps because it begs the questions "how many?" and "and were there really that many to begin with?" The other choices might help squelch that. As for "as well as", this should not be used as "and". Fix as you see fit. Allreet (talk) 22:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, good point..."Many" is still a bit imprecise. OK, lets work this out - of the 11 tracks that ended up on "Sweetheart", originally 6 were supposed to have Gram Parsons' lead vocals but 3 were replaced with either McGuinn or Hillman. So, it's exactly half of Parson's vocals that were erased. As for your other point, I'll change it to "and" then...that still works. How come "as well as" isn't allowed? Is it a wiki rule or something? Kohoutek1138 01:48, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be good to qualify (by quantifying) the issue, for example, "three of the six songs recorded with Parsons' lead vocals were replaced", though it takes some linguistic acrobatics to weave in McGuinn and Hillman. One alternative to consider is breaking this into two sentences, but whatever works should rule. As for "as well as," it's a grammar issue. The phrase is a conjunction meaning "in addition to", either of which gives the writer the flexibility to run a series of things, then tack on something else. While it can be used to replace "and" in certain cases to give a couplet a different slant ("he was strong as well as agile"), it shouldn't be applied as a synonym for "and" in a series of three or more items. Allreet (talk) 15:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification regarding the phrase "as well as". With regard to three of the six planned Parsons' vocals being replaced, I've had a crack at altering the sentance. I think it's OK but see what you think. Kohoutek1138 01:46, 03 July 2009 (UTC)