User talk:Jayron32

Low key

Thank you for owning up to your actions. Do you now recognize the problem you participated in? Will you be wiser in the future and avoid helping friends (or others) to violate policy? Jehochman ^Talk 10:20, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

I've participated in lots of RfAs and very rarely have I seen candidates asked if they have histories with other accounts on Wikipedia. So it seems strange set up a system where we encourage editors to start over with new identities, don't expect editors to be forthright about their histories, and then point the finger at those who don't disclose "what they know". I'm not even sure it's a good idea to try to prevent editors from getting fresh starts. Why not just focus on rooting out collusion, corruption, and damage to the encyclopedia? I don't see any from the present circumstances, except for all the drahmaz instigated by those looking to settle scores. If there's a policy discussion to be had it should be separate from the present controversy. I am a strong supporter of greater leniency and giving editors a chance to clear their records so there wouldn't be a need for deception or the creating of new identities. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:17, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you an alternative account of Jayron32? If not, please let him answer the questions himself. Jehochman ^Talk 23:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

As I stated, I am neither embarassed nor ashamed of what I did. I do see the consequences of what has happened now. Had I had the forsight to see the problems this has caused, I probably would not have voted in Law's RFA at all. I did what I did at the time in good faith. I thought at the time (and still do today) that Law/Undertow is a good editor and good admin. I think what has happened to him is a symptom of systemic shortcomings, not individual ones. The big problem is that Adminship, contrary to what everyone says, is a BIG DEAL. This is because it is so hard to become an admin. If adminship were easier to get, and easier to take away, like being a rollbacker, then it would not be valued so much, and people would not go through deception to get it. Have you ever heard of anyone going through such lengths to become a rollbacker? No, because if they are good editors, they can get it. If they misuse it, it gets taken away. That's it. If adminship were similar, we would not have these problems. With this current controversy, I fear there will be too much of a push to make adminship EVEN harder to get, which will only lead to even more people using deception to get it. That which is hard to get is valuable, and that which is valuable is worth cheating to get. That is the most disheartening thing about this whole mess, is that it feeds people's desires to turn adminship into even MORE of a reward by making it EVEN MORE difficult to get. WP:NOBIGDEAL is long gone, and it is quickly taking WP:BURO with it. --Jayron32 00:00, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. I agree with your views on making adminship easier to get, and easier to take away. We need to deal with the fact that admins don't all have the same level of life experience or cultural norms; what is obvious to one may not be obvious to others. Better professional standards for administrators would help, especially to prevent the appearance of cronyism. Our community is no longer growing, in part because people perceive our power structures to be insular and unfair. Nevertheless, if ArbCom screws up and makes the wrong decision, that needs be appealed and overturned, not subverted by an end run. Unfortunately, that is what happened here, and now there have been consequences. I liked Casliber very much and am quite sorry that he had to resign. Everyone involved needs to take responsibility for their errors and make amends as best they can. Jehochman ^Talk 00:44, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

adoption?

Hi, I saw you were in the "looking for adoptees" list. What is involved with getting adopted? Thanks, Shymian (talk) 07:39, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, That page is a bit outdated. I am not currently taking on any more adoptees. --Jayron32 03:27, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Can I be allowed to make a Discotek Media page on Wikipedia?

I've noticed for the longest time that Wikipedia does not have a page on the Foreign TV/movie distrubutor Discotek Media. And I was wondering what the reason for it is. Other Foreign film companies have their own pages except for this one. Was it due to copyright infringement or was there another reason? If I'm allowed to start a page on Discotek Media, I'll be sure to not include any images that might possibly be copyrighted. I hope to hear your answer soon.E-Master (talk) 01:30, 5 October 2009 (UTC)E-Master

You may want to read the notability guideline and the corporation notability guideline. If the company itself does not meet these guidelines, the article is likely to be deleted regardless of the quality of your writing. You should also read Wikipedia's policy on conflicts of interest. --Jayron32 03:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Barack Obama

Would you kindly unprotect the Obama article, perhaps first warning people that no further edit warring will be tolerated? Full protection isn't a good way to deal with a very important, heavily edited article, and indefinite protection is unreasonable. I note the article is on probation. If anyone is edit warring you can deal with them quickly under the terms of article probation, but best to keep the article itself free. Thanks, Wikidemon (talk) 03:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

It's 6 hours. If something major happens in the next six hours that requires updating of the article, we can deal with it then. --Jayron32 03:57, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I had mistakenly thought it was indefinite. Cheers, Wikidemon (talk) 06:12, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

spam

I know that you've been interested in these issues in the past. Wikipedia:WikiProject Administrator — Ched :  ?  04:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Removal of PROD from Llancillo Church

Hello Jayron32, this is an automated message from SDPatrolBot to inform you the PROD template you added to Llancillo Church has been removed. It was removed by Cavrdg with the following edit summary '(Update / de-prod)'. Please consider discussing your concerns with Cavrdg before pursuing deletion further yourself. If you still think the article should be deleted after communicating with the 'dePRODer,' you may want to send the article to AfD for community discussion. Thank you, SDPatrolBot (talk) 20:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC) (Learn how to opt out of these messages) 20:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Arbcom motions under consideration

Clerk courtesy notice: You are a subject of one or more motions being considered by the Arbitration Committee. The motion(s) is/are:

• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Motions#Jayron32_admonished
• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Motions#Jayron32_desysopped

Sincerely, Manning (talk) 13:18, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Are you busy?

Hello Jayron 32.

Do you know anything about adding associated acts sections to an infobox. See here. I have been trying on that article but I can't seem to make it show on the table. Any ideas? Thanks.--Sky Attacker Here comes the bird! 20:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. By the way I just saw this. Are you getting ready to leave?--Sky Attacker Here comes the bird! 23:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Nope. --Jayron32 23:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh. I'm just curious as to what it means for you.--Sky Attacker Here comes the bird! 23:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

It means I am tired of various drama, much of which currently is self-inflicted. --Jayron32 23:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Ah, that's understandable. You know, if I didn't enjoy contributing to the encyclopedia as much as I do, I would've left last month. I prefer to work alongside moral editors with commonsense rather than editors who are just here to swim with the drama.--Sky Attacker Here comes the bird! 23:57, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Naming of Plymouth

Hello. I noticed a message from you earlier today saying I should insert the information that I placed on the talk page of this piece. After inserting that information, I noticed that you placed a 'commenting out until resolved.' The information I had inserted – at your suggestion – contained a footnote to the earliest history of Plymouth that I'm aware of. What's to be resolved exactly? Are you questioning whether Plymouth was named after the place in Devon? Or what precisely is your point? I haven't noticed any disagreement on the talk page concerning the derivation of the name. In fact, I was simply responding to a poster who wondered why it wasn't included in the first place. MarmadukePercy (talk) 03:15, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

There can be some disagreement on whether the colonists came up with the name, or simply went with a name already on the map thanks to Smith. You'll notice that I said from the beginning that Plymouth was the home of most early adventurers and English explorers, which explains why Smith chose the name in the first place. I'm a bit perturbed that after I posted this to the talk page, you suggested I 'fix it,' as you put it, and then when I did, you simply reverted for discussion. In any case, I don't think your source is the last word, and as far as I'm concerned, the matter is still open to debate. MarmadukePercy (talk) 03:33, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I agree with your point. Perhaps the two thoughts can be blended. Try a rewrite. I've done many of those in my career. If you need any assistance, let me know. MarmadukePercy (talk) 03:38, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I tinkered a bit, but it looks good. Thanks. MarmadukePercy (talk) 05:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I retinkered as well. The word "delineated" means to "seperate", so I am pretty sure that wasn't what you intended. I changed it to "identified" and added a bit about John Smith, since the source text identifies him by name. --Jayron32 05:38, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

The etymology of delineate means 'to define,' or as Webster's would have it, "indicate or represent by drawn or painted lines." [1] Fine to include John Smith, although earlier explorers had also passed by there as well, most notably Bartholomew Gosnold. MarmadukePercy (talk) 05:44, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but it means define in a very specific way; it means to define in such a way as to seperate it by lines. You delineate a territory by drawing its borders, you would identify the location of a settlement. Both delineate and identify mean "to define"; they just mean it in slightly different ways. English words are full of shades of meaning, and it is important to choose the correct word for the situation. --Jayron32 05:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and many explorers besides Smith had explored the area; but none of them named it "New Plymouth". Smith did. --Jayron32 05:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I added the exact date of 1614, which was the year of Smith's visit.MarmadukePercy (talk) 05:53, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but he called it "Accomack" in 1614. Sometime between 1614 and 1616 he, in consultation with the future Charles II, changed it to New Plymouth. --Jayron32 05:54, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

No, according to this source [2], "This locality, called by the Indians Accomacke, was named Plymouth by Captain John Smith in 1614 and is so noted on his map of New England presented to Prince Charles." MarmadukePercy (talk) 06:05, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

According to a footnote appended to this volume of Bradford's History of Plymouth Plantation, the map in which John Smith identifies it as "Plimouth" was first published in 1614 to accompany Smith's Description of New England. On later copies of the map, accompanying later texts, "Plimouth' was changed to "New Plimouth," according to a study by scholar Wilberforce Eames, librarian of the Lenox Branch of the New York Public Library.[3] MarmadukePercy (talk) 06:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Alrighty then. Sounds good. Go with the 1614 then... --Jayron32 02:31, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Jayron32

Arbcom motion

Your attention is brought to the text of a motion passed by the Arbitration Committee on 11 October 2009.

• Jayron32 admonished: Jayron32 (talk · contribs) is strongly admonished for having knowingly promoted the request for adminship of an editor he knew was using an undisclosed alternate account. He was aware that knowledge of the former account's history would materially affect the request, and displayed poor judgment by failing to disclose that information along with his support.

For the Arbitration Committee, Manning (talk) 16:22, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Intelligent, Unconventional Over-Achievers have the Greatest Potential to Make the World Better, However

• Jayron32 exonerated: Jayron32 (talk · contribs) is quaintly exonerated for having unknowingly helped others who return the favor with artistic synchronicity :p

This edit must certainly be Jayron32's most fatalistic edit of his career and I'll tell you why. For starters[4], I have used solely Wikipedia and MIT OCW and MCAT prepbooks to prepare for the MCAT which I'll be taking on the 30th of January. I plug Wikipedia all the time to people and tell them that the math/science articles have fewer errata than most every one of my purchased study materials; and, making an edit that explains a concept in slightly better wording is the most awesome way to learn! I was visiting (i.e. getting lured into chatterboxing or following links to the usual gossip) at Caspian blue's talk page where I just faintly recalled that Jayron32 was a positive user. I went back and hunted the edit, which was serendipitously an MCAT Fluids question that has became one of my strongest subjects of Physics. This story will make Jayron32's day when he learns that I pwned a somewhat-cocky, egocentric "gunner" who needed a lesson in humility (and kepting begging and wouldn't let it go) and it's that good feeling of why we're all Wikipedians! We're the ones who "retreat" from the real world and actually do something we think is important, and look down upon people who are uncaring, ingenuine "successful" people. Here is me deheading (he put his neck under the guillotine and hoisted the blade so it's his fault, a little bit mine) the alpha-male hippo at the hangout waters of most premed over-achievers. I think everyone here (except those who overlap at Wikipedia and SDN) can share in mine and Jayron32's (and of course EVERYONE at the ref desk and math/science articles and the creep & cruft and OR fighters! For the Win!) success story, because Wikipedia is working. I have good judgment[5] and I'm not defending Jayron32's actions, but I'm firmly defending his positive intentions. He's truly one of your site's best and one you can't afford to let be lost to discouragement. You can't simply overlook what he did and not impose scorn, but why hasn't someone else jumped in before me to humorously attempt and overturn the good folks at ArbCom (who have put in a lot of work, and I apologize that my argument soundly trounces yours and will make Jayron32 feel the way he should feel, if his heart was in the right place in his seemingly misunderstood actions).

I was going to ramble; but, if anyone is more interested in these uploaded images [6][7][8] which I had planned to incorporate into this essay--I got overambitious and was going to copy/paste every link from that last triplet of urls which were planned to elaborately invite my kind, generous attorney-friend into Wikiproject Law who has respectfully declined in advance due to a lack of time--then email me if you enjoy (mainly talking to Jayron32 here because I don't expect my life to be that interesting, it's mostly boring) hearing the most fascinating tale about my friend and me who if I can't get Thomas to join, maybe I can get my friend to! 윤리윤리윤리 (talk) 08:09, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, I think for your support here? It should be noted, however, that ArbCom did the right thing, I screwed up big-time, and for that I deserved the admonishment of ArbCom. I exhibited a tragic error in judgement in supporting User:Law in his adminship bid when I knew him to be under ArbCom sanctions, and for that I am completely sorry. I count that person as among my friends, but my actions were inexcusable, and that I was only admonished is astonishing to me. I have been crafting a more formal apology for the past week or so off-wiki. I plan to post it on-wiki soon. --Jayron32 17:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's moral support. I just think it's amazing that I found out about this from a Korean's talk page and was able to write a relevant message! There's no better feeling than knowing your work here really makes a difference. This is an encyclopedia after all, and knowledge is power. Math & science articles plus the ref desk have certainly empowered me. Thank you, again. 윤리윤리윤리 (talk) 03:27, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks-

Many thanks for helping out the Jess Miller (Wisconsin politician) article- I saw the mistake while doing the article-RFD (talk) 20:58, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Phew...

This got me worried for a minute until you edited it a minute later... Until It Sleeps ^{Talk • Contribs} 05:12, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Goodbye

I'm leaving Wikipedia forever and I just wanted to say goodbye to a fellow editor who I wish all the best for in their future pursuits on this encyclopedia.--Sky Attacker Here comes the bird! 05:00, 14 October 2009 (UTC)