Talk:Ben 10: Alien Force

Separate Characters/Villains Pages

Should there be separate villain pages created because the link takes you to Ben 10's villains, not Ben 10: Alien Force's villains. As for the characters, let's create a separate one when other Alien Force characters are introduced. (Characters that haven't appeared in Ben 10).--Yenaldooshi (talk) 20:44, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought that AF should follow the same layout as Ben10, in terms of subpages etc, for consistency's sake if nothing else. Ged UK (talk) 20:54, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Or it could be merged under an Alien Force section.--Yenaldooshi (talk) 20:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd have just thought we would be saving ourselves future work, but equally setting up all the subpages now might mean that they end up either as stubs or listed for deletion. Meh, I don't think I have an opinion on this! lol Ged UK (talk) 21:03, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I think the existing pages need to focus on the metaseries, and for the minor character, simply weed out the truly trivial ones. That way it does not get too lengthy, and can include characters from both shows. And because the new articles dont exist yet, we can avoid a possible merge down the road. Rau's talk 21:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

(As per list of omnitrix aliens talk page) Sorry, are you saying there should be one page for villains (and one for characters etc) that are in Ben10, or AF (or presumably the film), rather than a different page for each show? Because I think that's going to give us far too big a list (for villains, characters, allies etc); it's already rather large and unwieldy now. Ged UK (talk) 17:18, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm...good point...--Yenaldooshi (talk) 21:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

That is what I'm saying. But we do not need to list every named character, we can weed out the ones that only had one or two episodes. Rau's talk 21:08, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I've no problem with that, but 1) it'll need a hefty prune and 2) there will be a load of people who keep putting things back in, their fav character who was only in one ep etc. Ged UK (talk) 21:26, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

You will always have that, but if it gets too severe, there is always page protection. And the list was too long as it is. This was a necessary step either way, but im up for helping with it. Rau's talk 21:35, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

True enough. Well, it's fine with me, I'd suggest we try to agree on what the list should be in the talk page first, to save constant reverting. I'll put the list up in a bit. Ged UK (talk) 21:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Rau's talk 21:53, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

@_@... umm...agreed then...--Yenaldooshi (talk) 19:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

---

I am reviving this discussion. Someone has ignored this discussion and created the page anyway. I did not notice this, and it seems only a handful of editors did. I have reverted the page to a redirect, if you have a problem with that, bring it up here. Rau's Speak Page 00:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd have to say that a separate page is probably a good idea. Alien Force should be separate from Ben 10, because they are vastly different shows. A few days ago, I sat through an episode of the original Ben 10 for the first time, and it's really a totally different show. It's practically unrecognizable. --Gaming King (talk) 08:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree more now than ever. The characters in Ben 10 page is just going to get too big. I personally think it already is. There should be separate pages for AF and Ben10. There are 4 characters so far that cross over, it wouldn't be too much to cross link them. Ged UK (talk) 11:20, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Aliens

Wait, does he still have the others from the first series? Rau's talk 22:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

No, they're pretty clear it's a whole different set. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 22:05, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Is it ever directly stated that he no longer possess the other 19 aliens? Rau's talk 22:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure it does somewhere. Something about the watch being reset with ten new forms. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 22:56, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

He just puts it on, and they're gone? Shouldn't that be mentioned in the article? Rau's talk 00:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Penguin, it never said that they're gone. However, some people say that they are, and some say they're there, but Ben has to unlock them again. Nothing is set in stone. The Matyr ^{(converse with the Matyr)} 20:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Thats why its written the way it is, to prevent it from being definite either way, at least until a source says one way or the other. Rau's Speak Page 21:19, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

On Ben10toys.net, there was an image of a Heatblast bobblehead along with Big Chill, Goop, and Swampfire. They all had green Omnitrix symbols instead of the regular white. Why would they just make one original Omnitrix one instead of others? There's going to be a Pyronite kid on the show, so he probably got his DNA or something. Unless if Ben forgot about getting DNA on the Omnitrix -_-' . Also, since the Omnitrix has changed, he probably got a new set of aliens to go with it. Either way, Ben eventually has to unlock the aliens later on his life time as shown in Ben 10,000.--Yenaldooshi (talk) 21:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC) The Heatblast is not from the original Omnitrix. He is Alan, the Plumber kid that Ben met in "Everybody Talks About The Weather". Geez, do you even WATCH the show?Bakutrix (talk) 18:27, 9 November 2008 (UTC)Bakutrix 9 November 2008

Which has been stated numerous times as non-canon. For all we know, the omnitrix might switch to gwen, then ben takes up magic, then he dies of cancer. That could be how the show ends. Problem is, its OR. Rau's Speak Page 22:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I thought Ken 10 was non-canon...wait, so the future episodes (Ken 10 and Ben10,000) are non-cannon right??--Yenaldooshi (talk) 21:15, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I just said that... Rau's Speak Page 22:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Ken 10 is is canon, it just takes place in an alternate future that is, or is no longer, possible. Its like the episode where Gwen received the Omnitrix instead of Ben. It was created to show a possible future. 134.121.250.173 (talk) 00:22, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

And possible futures are non-canon. Rau's Speak Page 01:48, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I know Ken 10 is non-canon. Thanks for the clarification! :) --Yenaldooshi (talk) 19:46, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Rau do you even know how canon and non-canon work?

Canon are the events that affect future actions and are in continuity with the main storyline. Non-Canon are events that do not affect the main continuity in anyway. Sign your comments please: ~~~~. Rau's Speak Page 00:55, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Personality change

Should we note how Ben has changed over the years. It seems note worthy.Chaoshi (talk) 22:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

After the show starts and we have more information, certainly. Thats a given. But not yet, we dont have enough information yet. Rau's Speak Page 22:49, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I saw another Ben 10: Alien Force commercial where he puts back the Omnitrix...anyway.. yeah, I think when the show starts would be better because we might be wrong (or not). We should check first to make sure we're accurate not that we aren't.--Yenaldooshi (talk) 19:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we should have much on it tbh. After all, what is particularly notable about personality differences between a 10 year old boy and a 15 year old teenager? Ged UK (talk) 19:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The only difference is that 15 year old Ben is older..obviously.., he is more mature..that's all I can think of..--Yenaldooshi (talk) 19:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, more hormonal, more interested in girls (as a result), less prone to sulking (though that's arguable). Obviously there's physical changes too, but surely those are self-evident and don't need to be included. It would look silly to me if it said Ben Tennyson, now taller and stronger than when he was a boy or similar. I don't know. I'm just not sure we want too much on there that isn't back up by the reviews. That said, the preview review (as it were) already mentions those things so maybe it'll be OK, provided it's sourced. Am I going in circles here? Ged UK (talk) 20:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Kinda, but the circles are necessary to say what you said. But yea, any changes noted in that review could be noted, but they need to be sourced. If not; myself, and probably others, will remove them. Rau's Speak Page 23:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Judging by the episode of the original Ben 10 I watched, he's less interested in girls in Alien Force, though this is irrelevant anyway. Also, his eye color is different, maybe as a result of an overall shift in animation. --Gaming King (talk) 08:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Nothing noticeable? He's lost his charm and his attitude! He went from an overconfident "shoot-first-ask-later" little kid with an ego, to this measly well-mannered thoughtful and shy teenager. I mean, sure, he went through puberty - he's bound to change something. But not everything! Lets face it: Kevin is probably closer to what Ben should be at the moment; he's a bit stupid, he's tough, he's rude - everything Ben used to be. Don't get me wrong - I do like Ben's character at the moment, I just find it a little hard to swallow that he could change so much in a few years. [[User:tetris11|tetris11] Speak Page 19:58, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it is odd. Maybe they wanted to make him less annoying by a radical change... and went really far. --Gaming King (talk) 05:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Copyright

Isn't there something to do with copyright when the article lists the main characters. I went to the referance and it is word by word copied.--Obaidz96 (talk • contribs • count) 21:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

One line per character, which isn't copied verbatim, just very close, easily falls into fair use. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 21:20, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Its not word-by-word I made sure to write it so that it is far from word by word. Rau's Speak Page 21:51, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

1st Episode Mystery

Did anyone else notice something weird about Max's transmission? In the second part of the recording, as the image is going down, i caught a glimpse of one of thos alien things. I paused it on my dish thing and it was one of the aliens. Whats up with that?! Pntblankspacout (talk) 04:12, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

It is known, but we do not have a place to add it as any information other that its existence is speculation and original research. If this was intended as quote-unquote "forum speak", then please refrain from doing so again. Rau's Speak Page 04:26, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

It eather mean hat he was attacked and lost transition, or th DNAliens were in disguise(remember that they said they couldn't find max at the beginning and that there was one in the rust buket?) and swiched back wright before the transmitin ender pokejm32(not signed in yet) may 2,12:46 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.88.13.44 (talk) 05:46, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Thats OR. Rau's Speak Page 10:31, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I wonder about that as well. Perhaps they'll reveal it. --Gaming King (talk) 05:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Alien Force game

There is a new game based on Alien Force coming in fall. Here's an official statement. http://www.ben10toys.net/archives/286.htm Should we add it to the page? Chaoshi (talk) 21:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:BOLD, add a section, but do not add information that you took as implied, or was outright not there. Rau's Speak Page 21:19, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

All you need to know about the game (which I've played and it's awesome) is at www.ben10thevideogame.com.Bakutrix (talk) 18:31, 9 November 2008 (UTC)Bakutrix

Personalities

Is it just me, or does it sound like they are advertising Ben in the article? Rau's Speak Page 02:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes.. Should we change it a little bit?--Yenaldooshi (talk) 17:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Yea, I'm gonna do it now.. Rau's Speak Page 19:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Target Audience

Alien Force seems to be targeted to an older audience than the original show was, given the older characters, more realistic personalities, and arguably higher violence level. Is there something from Cartoon Network to confirm this? --Gaming King (talk) 10:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Moving to bottom of page Ged UK (talk) 10:28, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Uh, why? Did I forget the ordering or something? --Gaming King (talk) 08:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, new topics go at the bottom :)

Oopsie. :P Well, anyone got anything for me yet? --Gaming King (talk) 05:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Nothing I've seen. Ged UK (talk) 07:28, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Editing advice

Since a lot of users are hung up on Max's death being cannon, and Kevin and Gwen's relationship, I propose we make a hidden tag that tells anyone who wants to edit the page to refrain from addressing these facts. All in favor? Chaoshi (talk) 03:09, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I am. But really, WP:BOLD, WP:BOLD man.... Learn it, live it, love it. Rau's Speak Page 03:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

That looks good. Now all we have to do is wait for them to ignore it and revert anyway. Rau's Speak Page 04:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

With that there, if we continually get IPs ignoring it, then we can ask for the page to be protected, and I think we'd get it. If users keep changing it, then we can warn them to use the discussion page. Ged UK (talk) 06:31, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, at least it will make the fans who are just trying to be helpful back off. Chaoshi (talk) 06:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Ya'd think wouldn't you? Over on the Avatar articles, we put up a message about the leaked episodes concerning consensus being against using the information. We ended up protecting half the taskforce. Rau's Speak Page 07:07, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

i don't mean to barge in, but what if we want to talk about those two things? it's a very hot topic to talk about, and plus, you can't tell us what to do.Bloo1997 (talk) 10:39, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

1. Most of it is speculation, and 2. That stuff belongs on the list of Ben 10 characters. If we were to allow every character, every Kevin X Gwen kiss, and every theory on Max's death, this page would be a unkempt piece of trash in line for deletion. Besides, this is not a forum. Find somewhere else to discuss your "hot topic". Chaoshi (talk) 18:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

And as long as we cite that you are against policy, yes we can tell you what to do. That or you get banned. Rau's Speak Page 23:06, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll take your advice, but who ever said it was my hot topic?Bloo1997 (talk) 10:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Nobody mentioned you. The 'hot topic' reference was brought up by 69.119.202.48 --Ged UK (talk) 10:39, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Uh actually, he IS 69.119.202.48|69.119.202.48... Chaoshi (talk) 16:27, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, i see! Ged UK (talk) 16:42, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

That's where logging in before even going to an article helps. And if your only continued complaint is that it's not your hot topic, this discussion is closed. Rau's Speak Page 21:40, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry for editing the article alot of times. I didn't read this page until after so apologies for adding things that I now realize weren't needed. Asaspades (talk) 20:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC))

Cartoon Network Video

Cartoon Network has taken Alien Force off their Online Channel, but has left the original online. Should this be mention in the article?Discobird (talk) 23:46, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Not really, if they had taken it off of TV maybe, but not their online channel. Rau's Speak Page 00:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

They haven't taken it off. The old ones just expired before the new ones were added. It'll come back when they have more to play. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 01:54, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Paradox!?

If Max sacrificed himself, how come he was there in ben 10 episode: ben 10,000? TMek ^{The covenant COM link 42} 18:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

We don't know. We can't put anything in because it's speculation. We don't know how, if at all, the two shows link together. Ged UK (talk) 20:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Because Ben 10,000 only shows a possible future, not an inevitable one. Besides, this is not a place for speculation, nor a forum!Chaoshi (talk) 00:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

You've created a time paradox! Sorry, couldn't help myself. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 00:31, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

It is not a time paradox! it is an episode from ben 10 alien force —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.31.209.155 (talk) 16:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Ged UK (talk) 18:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Pshaw, cat's can't swim. Rau's Speak Page 03:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

It could go either way. There's a possibility he might be in the Null Void rather than dead. --Gaming King (talk) 05:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, exactly. There's a number of possibilities, and they're all speculative and therefore inappropriate for here. Ged UK (talk) 07:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Max provably somehow survived, or the guy that died wasn't him... Speeda psx (talk) 16:29, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

It was him but he did'nt die, he was sent to the Null Void. Watch "Voided" tomorrow and you'll seeOmnigan (talk) 17:40, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Omnigan

I think that when Max made the null void projector explode it blew off his arm and sucked him into the void. It would explain the whole robot arm thing in the future. Though that might not be the case because Ben 10,00 is only a hypethetical future of course. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingwild (talk • contribs) 21:18, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Characters

I noticed that the bulk of this article is pretty much just the list of characters. Do we really need that? All of that information can be found on the list. Rau's Speak Page 03:35, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it's OK as they are short summaries that give helpful context to the article. Perhaps as the article grows over time they could be removed, but for now as it's a new show I think it's helpful to keep that context. Ged UK (talk) 07:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

That and the article isn't two hundred words long. Rau's Speak Page 07:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Verdona character bio was deleted. why? She is a character after all, which may likely be seen in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.94.72 (talk) 07:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

'Might be' isn't enough. In order to keep the character list manageable, we're keeping it to characters who have more than one appearance. Ged UK (talk) 07:57, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Dwayne McDuffie forum Q&A

There's a rather rambling (in the sense it takes place over a number of days with lots of unnamed questioners) with Dwayne McDuffie, who is one of B10AF writers and script editors. In it he answers a range of questions from fans. Some answers are rather more cryptic than others. You can read it all here, and indeed contribute to it. I'm posting this as a heads up, because I think we're liable to get a lot of speculating going on on the articles based on what Dwayne has said, or on what readers have inferred that he's said. I hope to go through it tonight and cut and paste his answers (he helpfully keeps the questions attached) so that we can have a shorter list.

We must be careful of WP:SYNTH and not try and draw conclusions from cryptic answers combined with guesswork from the episodes themselves. --Ged UK (talk) 10:25, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

In multiple posts, Mc Duffie hints that the original aliens are still on the Omnitrix, but are locked. He also says that the Forever Nights from the original series are a splinter group of the AF FK's with goals different from each other. What about that? Chaoshi (talk) 15:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Given that it's a forum, it probably wouldn't pass muster at WP:RS. I only watch this article for obvious vandalism (I don't watch the show, so I don't contribute), so I won't challenge if you do add it, but just voicing a little caution. Ask him if he has a website where he can post this in a more concise manner. It looks like he's fairly communicative, so can't hurt to ask (and you don't even need to say why your asking if you don't want). Yngvarr (t) (c) 17:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that's exactly what we need to be careful with; 'hints' at this that or the other and people drawing conclusions from it, which is WP:OR. I would agree with Yngvarr in contacting (via that site or wherever) and seeing what he says. --Ged UK (talk) 18:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

The Forever Knights thing is confirmed though, as well as an antagonist with an OmnitrixChaoshi (talk) 19:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, yeah, those things are fine i'd have thought, where it's a clear statement, but there's a lot of 'wait and see' and 'maybe' kinda stuff in there too. --Ged UK (talk) 19:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, but now I need to find the right template to quote him by if he doesn't want to put the answers on a stand-alone site. Any suggestions? Chaoshi (talk) 20:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

{{Cite interview}}, details at Template:Cite_interview. --Ged UK (talk) 20:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Or probably Template:Cite_newsgroup. --Ged UK (talk) 20:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll go through the page, and add info that is solid, not hinted, as decided by our chat on the Talk page. Chaoshi (talk) 20:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Omnitrix

Omnitrix is now improved. Its size has become small. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.198.2.133 (talk) 05:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah...it has been recalibrated. Fil Student (talk) 12:59, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm confused? Isn't the watch going to grow? I was under the impression that the watch was going to grow in size and actually start to more or less bond more with Ben's body to the point where the watch starts to make him like a type of exo skeleton. Also, why didn't the watch jump to grandpa Max when Ben first walked up to him when he was younger. The watch surely could have sensed that grandpa Max was near by and jumped on his wrist. I mean we all know the watch was chosen for Max's grand father. Speaking of which it brings mew to another subject matter. Gwen 10 is actually very accurate because of two reasons. Gwen's an alien and the fact she has tennyson DNA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingwild (talk • contribs) 21:32, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Kevin's Car

I was watching episode 201 from the original series and noticed some similarities between Kevin's car in this iteration of the show, and Phil's car in the original. How should this be addressed, if at all? MaxyDawg (talk) 21:25, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Chaoshi (talk) 03:20, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Fixing the Character sections

OK, the Character articles need some work. What we can do Is make Ben, Gwen and Kevin separate articles so they can cover both Ben 10 and Ben 10: Alien Force series without explaining so much. After that we merge the alliance article with the minor character article. It would help the articles out a lot. I don't see why so many articles are separate. we can get some decent reviews from each character enough to gain notability and make separate articles and merge the character articles together. what do you think? please don't make any decision on WP:ILIKEIT.Bread Ninja (talk) 18:37, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Omnitrix Changes

I believe that it is worth stating that in this series Ben's clothes do not cover the aliens as the did in the last series (where possible, i.e. Heatblast could not be clothed). I do remember an episode of the original Ben 10 series where it has the little did-you-know style pop-ups stating the clothes of the being wielding the Omnitrix molecules are used as coverings for the aliens. Can somebody please verify this for me?