Talk:John Allen Muhammad

Irony vs. Coincidence

Entry currently says that people reacted to the "irony" of 9:11 as the time of death, in light of the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01. The far more proper word is "concidence." An irony is an event that was not expected to occur in light of something else; For example, if Muhammad were a follower of Gandhi and did not even know how to use a gun, his conviction and execution would have been ironic. The mere concidence between 9:11 and 9/11 is NOT something unexpected; in fact, it was a very real possibility since the execution started at 9:00. Sorry for this slight rant, but please change "irony" to "coincidence." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.225.200.150 (talk) 02:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

You have a point, the problem is what does the source say? I don't necessarily agree with your definition of Irony (nor wikipedia's for that matter), but you are correct, "irony" should not be conflated with "coinicidence". If the source says the term "irony" was used by stony faced officials in the presser after this wretched chap's death, then "irony" has to be used in the article. Crafty (talk) 03:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Understood, but the source is not being quoted here. You either need to put irony in quotes or else you need to exercise editorial judgment and use the proper word. If a source said that Bill Clinton was impeached for angering God, would Wikipedia print that Bill Clinton was impeached for angering God? An encyclopedia should use proper words for things; it should not be a Wolf Blitzer-like sounding board that simply propagates bad use of logic and language.

Execution

Someone added text that Muhammad had chosen the electric chair as his method of execution. CNN, AP and several other news sources all say he declined to choose a method and will get lethal injection by default. I corrected the statement and added a ref to CNN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stmdc (talk • contribs) 01:29, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

He was executed by lethal injection. In Virginia inmates may select either the electric chair or lethal injection. A failure to select either option defaults to the lethal injection option, and this is what happened in this case. His selection was not made at all, and therefore the law stated that lethal injection was selected for him. The Virginian Pilot, the Hampton Roads largest daily paper, stated in a concurrent story to the execution that since the change in the law in 1998, only 5 inmates have selected the electric chair, and some of them, as in the case of Earl Bramblett in 2003, selected the electric chair as a protest to point out the barbarity of executions in general. The vast majority of inmates since the selection law took effect in 1998 has been to lethal injection. Themoodyblue (talk) 02:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Gulf War

I once read/heard Muhammad was the individual who fragged some guys in Gulf War I (Operation Desert Storm.) Can someone verify if this is the case?

I have been following this story since 2002 on an informal basis, and I have never heard or read that, even in some of the extremist articles. It seems a lot of his evil thinking and actions developed as he failed in civilian life after his time in the service. IMHO, with what we are now hearing in court from Malvo, assuming it is true, it is probably a good thing Muhammad failed as so many things, or harm to others would have been even worse than what he did accomplish stateside. Vaoverland 22:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

One of the reasons that people would still be wondering why the snipers did what they did is political correctness, in this case, the mainstream media's "revisionism and sanitization of Islam", i.e., the "politically correct whitewashing of the truth aimed at pleasing Muslim groups like CAIR": "When news of the snipers' identity first broke, CNN anchors were so determined to avoid making the obvious connection to radical Islam that they called the lead sniper, a Muslim convert, by his old name. Police were looking for John Allen Muhammad, but CNN insisted on referring to him as John Allen Williams." To further quote Rehabbing The D.C. Snipers by Investor's Business Daily (which presents a "pile of courtroom evidence"): "Nowhere in [CNN's] one-hour special — promoted as "The Minds of the D.C. Snipers" — is Islamist brainwashing even hinted as a motivating factor behind their serial assassinations. Yet the evidence is overwhelming that they were on a jihad." Asteriks 17:52, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

"On a Jihad"? You have to be kidding. The guy is a member of the Nation of Islam (which is considered a deviant sect and not Muslim by almost all Muslims, especially hardcore Salafi Jihadists), and left Tarot cards and a note that said 'I Am God', and then demanded 10 million dollars. Sounds like classic Al-Qaeda to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.246.220.73 (talk) 02:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Or perhaps classic whack job (which Muhammad clearly was) using the recent Al Queda attacks as a ruse to throw suspicion off of him. Either way, it was very definitely a terrorist act. I lived in Hampton Roads at the time and I remember how terrified everyone was to be out at all. Why ever he did it, it was terrorism and cold-blooded, vicious, nihilistic murder. I am not much of a supporter of the death penalty, but if there was ever a case for it this was the one. If they had not executed this man, then they should have commuted everyone else's sentence on death row and then been done with it. Themoodyblue (talk) 03:01, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

---

The following is an example article containing the allegation that Muhammad was suspected of fragging in GWI:

http://townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2003/03/26/mswa_muslim_soldiers_with_attitude?page=2

also:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-md.malvo05dec05,0,4954387.story  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.40.144.103 (talk) 03:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC) 

Meanwhile, references #1 and #6 are identical.

<freund@csus.edu>

Georgia

The article says they were responsible for crimes in Georgia, but doesn't explain any details. Thus, I've removed the mentions. Superm401 - Talk 08:34, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

"Spree Killer" or "Serial Killer"

"Serial Killer" appears to be a more appropriate label. Even the link to "Spree Killer" offers a definition that is inaccurate for this entry: "The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics defines a spree killing as 'killings at two or more locations with almost no time break between murders.'[1] According to the FBI the general definition of spree murder is two or more murders committed by an offender or offenders, without a cooling-off period; the lack of a cooling-off period marking the difference between a spree murder and a serial murder." In contrast, the Beltway Sniper Attacks lasted approximately three weeks, and only ended with arrests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.69.35 (talk) 09:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree. That jumped out at me immediately when I was reading the article. Tithonfury (talk) 06:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The problem with that is that serial killers are nearly always associated with sociopathic personalities, i.e. killing as part of a weird ritual of some kind. These guys seemed to be doing it for political reasons. It appears to have been de facto terrorist attacks, and they certainly succeeded in creating terror in the public, but I don't think the media called them terrorists as such. In an odd way, their plan reminds me a little bit of John Brown, who was also delusional and also ended up getting put down, by a rope instead of a needle. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The media did not necessarily refer to them as "terrorists" ... but I believe that "terrorism" was one of their official legal charges. Thanks. (64.252.124.238 (talk) 16:07, 10 November 2009 (UTC))

Number of victims?

The article says 10 killed, the infobox says 16. RomaC (talk) 08:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I believe that the number 10 refers specifically only to the Beltway sniper victims' deaths ... and that the number 16 refers to the total number of deaths by Muhammad (that is, the Beltway sniper victims plus all of his other victims). Thanks. (64.252.124.238 (talk) 16:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC))

I see. I wasn't aware he had killed others before the Beltway shootings, maybe a new section "Other victims" would be appropriate? RomaC (talk) 02:20, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protection

Given the high rate of IP vandalism this article is attracting today, I've petitioned the WikiGods for semi-protection. May they smile upon my humble request. [UPDATE: This guy is dead.] Crafty (talk) 21:02, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

What's your citable source? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:12, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

The press is making it known.-J0hn76.102.32.59 (talk) 02:26, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

stop reverting please...

I noticed some people edit the page into what it will be in 10 minutes but someone is reverting it...just let it be. The Fear (talk) 02:13, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I know. Too bad they don't realize they need a reliable source confirming his death. -ACDCGAMER 02:14, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I think he was referring to you you twat.

Time of death

9:11 pm local, per news conference —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.13.223.188 (talk) 02:15, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed now per Fox News. JungleCat Shiny!/Oohhh! 02:17, 11 November 2009 (UTC)