Talk:Montgolfier brothers

Looking round numerous websites, it seems there is confusion about the date of the first manned and unmanned ascent. I think April 4, 1783 might be unmanned, June 5 manned. Also there is wide variation on the Net of the statistics associated with the events, such as balloon volume, distance, height of ascent etc. PW

Also, the first flight across the English Channel was in a hydrogen balloon... which was invented by Jacques-Alexandre-César Charles, about whom there is no article. The hydrogen balloon was used extensively for the next 200 years, while the hot air balloon floated into obscurity until the discovery of propane. -Ryan Callahan

Hey, wouldn't it be fun to try a hot hydrogen balloon - lotsof hydrogen heated by a propane burner!  ;)

Funny you should mention it, Pilâtre de Rozier actually died in hybrid balloon except of course that the flame was not meant to heat the hydrogen...

How high was high?

In one paragraph you mention De Rozier flying at 10,000 metres over paris. That's in excess of 30,000 feet --- impossible. Lowe only made 20,000 feet 80 years later.

Francesco Lana de Terzi

IMHO we should mention Francesco Lana Terzi, the father of Aeronautics http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/jmac/sj/scientists/lana.htm User:Jeandré du Toit 00:24 Jan 2007

===============================================================================

I was working on the Dutch lemma the other day and gathered some information. I think the French Wikipedia is best informed on the subject, the German Wikipedia is also in trouble on that particular subject, but there is a book by :

• Schama, S. (1989) Citizens. A Chronicle of the French Revolution, p 123-31; 884-5.

Simon Schama writes very literary about the Montgolfier brothers and the balloons, but is using only French sources. His account is very interesting, funny and looks reliable.

I assume one of the authers, working on this lemma, was using a book in French on the subject, or:

• Gillispie, C.G. (1983) The Montgolfier brothers and the invention of aviation, 1783-1784 : with a word on the importance of ballooning for the science of heat and the art of building railroads. Princeton, N.J, Princeton University Press.

But Schama does not mention it for some reason, and I have not read it yet. Taksen 08:42, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page has been seriously vandalized and needs someone to check all the facts and rectify. --Renier Maritz (talk) 09:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Description of the work of Jacques Charles needs work

This entry contains a description of the work of Jacques Charles, but it does not compare well with the existing entry on this man. Two things: (i) This article says that JC went into the sky twice on 1 December, but the entry on JC does not mention this. So which is right? So can someone more knowledgeable about the subject fix this? (ii) Slightly more detail (number of people watching; downpour ending the show) about JC's flight is provided in this article than in the article on the man himself. Unfortunately these details are unsourced, but if verifiable, I think that they should be moved to the JC article. JRGp (talk) 23:00, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Spelling of Montgolfier

Why does the picture provided

Jacques Étienne Montgolfier

spell the name without the 't'. Is that just a typo in the image? -AndrewDressel (talk) 17:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

New amazing claim

Etienne became the first human to lift off the earth in a tethered balloon. It occurred sometime in August 1783. A letter from his wife, dated sometime in August 1783, refers to his safe return from the flight. This informaton was not known until approximately 1983 when Gillispie published it in his book "The Montgolfier Brothers and the Invention of Aviation." - 66.235.17.41 19:20, 29 September 2009

This is an extraordinary claim, that contradicts numerous reliable sources, and so requires an extraordinary reference. The book might do, if we had a page number and a quotation. -AndrewDressel (talk) 12:11, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Number of Children

In the Early Years section the first paragraph says that Pierre and Anne had sixteen children. In the second paragraph Joseph is described as the 20th child.

At least one of these is in error

Martin Ross 2009-11-3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.143.131 (talk) 18:19, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Was Pilâtre de Rozier the first airman?

I cut the following addition from article for discussion here:

Was Pilâtre de Rozier the first airman? The distinction is always accorded him…for his feat of soloing in the same balloon held captive in test runs on 15, 17, and 19 October [1783]. Before that, however, Etienne himself flew the new balloon in experiments that were not then, and have never since, been reported (unless one cryptic sentence in the account of the academic commission may be called a report: “We shall say nothing of the several preliminary experiments, but will turn at once to that which was performed in our presence on 15 October”) Etienne may simply have preceded Pilatre on the 15th, but it seems more likely that he tried the machine out several days before that. …We do not have the letter in which Etienne did recount the escapade to Adelaide (his wife). Her reply, however, leaves no doubt about the fact: “I have just received your letter, my dear one, where you tell us about your embarking. Although it did not give me much pleasure, I congratulate you on your success and specially on your safe return. I don’t much like these aerial voyages….” In a letter to Etienne from his irate father (Pierre) dictated to his eldest son, Jean-Pierre Montgolfier l’aine, it reads in part “He requires you to give him no further cause for distress and…not to get in the machine. You’ve already got out of it what you wanted to know.” Those lines were countersigned… “Ton pere Montgolfier.” On the basis of the flight(s) he had been obliged to confess previous to 15, 17, and 19 October he modified the balloon.

So, does this mean that we can quote Gillispie as claiming that Etienne flew first? - AndrewDressel (talk) 18:14, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

The academic commission mentions "several preliminary experiments", there are several letters from Montgolfier family members relating Etienne's tethered flight that surfaced almost 200 years after the fact as a result of Gillispie's research into the Montgolfier family archives in circa 1983, and Etienne modified the balloon Rozier used in October as a result of Etienne's flight(s). Yes, I think we can quote Gillispie that Etienne flew first. Rigid requirements of proof were not in place in 1783. viz: FAI was 122 years hence. Sandy Morton (talk • contribs) 07:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Great. What would be the exact quotation? Is there a single sentence that makes his point? I don't have a copy of the text. -AndrewDressel (talk) 21:59, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

There is no single sentence that makes his point. The two pages along with their notes need to be read to convince the reader re: his assertion concerning Etienne. Here is my suggested sentence for insertion. I'd appreciate your comments.

"Gillispie,in his research into never before seen archival material, circa 1982, uncovered proof that Etienne was the first human to fly a tethered balloon in October 1783 prior to Rozier’s tethered flights in the same month." 66.235.17.41 (talk) 06:13, 12 November 2009 (UTC)