Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling

WikiProject Professional Wrestling
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Angel Williams → Angelina Love

Per common name, please discuss as usual.--WillC 05:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

It would help if you provided a more detailed rationale. iMatthew ^talk at 21:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Unless she gets resigned to TNA (*fingers crossed*) then she may go back to using her indie name which she already so I'm not sure. Tony2Times (talk) 22:38, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

I thought giving the links and allowing editors to look would be enough. Not sure where to start. She worked in TNA for two years under the Angelina Love name where she won the women's title twice and led The Beautiful People. She was under contract to WWE, but never appeared on the main roster. Seeing as she has had more exposure in TNA under this one name, it would suggest that is her common name. She has worked as Angel Williams, but only on the indy circuit and in a few dark matches for WWE. I do believe she is still using the Love ring name even after her TNA release. I don't see how her working on the indy circuit under Williams, would change her global exposure as Love. A quick google search of "Angel Williams wrestling" and "Angelina Love wrestling" turns up 1,440,000 for the later and 250,000 for the first.--WillC 07:25, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

I would support a move if you want to make a request, she is by far mor known as Angelina Love. TJ Spyke 15:19, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

That is really what this is. Thought dicussing it here would be easier.--WillC 15:53, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

just make a redirect and put the page as her real name and make reference to the aka. Steve Bordens page says steve borden and goes to mention he has an aka. Sting is also used as a redirect. This isn't a situation like The ultimate warrior. Even hulk hogan signs his checks under his legal name.Serialjoepsycho (talk) 11:21, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

First off, her legal name is Lauren Williams. Second, speak english please. I only understood one thing out of all that. Per WP:COMMONNAME it should actually be Angelina Love. I just need a consensus so I can get an admin to delete Angelina Love and then move the article there.--WillC 13:47, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm all for it, per COMMONNAME. Sephiroth storm (talk) 14:06, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Ladder match

Why aren't any of the Money in the Bank Ladder matches on the list? Raaggio 15:25, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

We shouldn't even have the lists. They are list cruft. The match has become commonplace, so keeping track of all the matches has no reason anymore. The article should be about the match rules and its history. Not a list of all ladder matches, that isn't even sourced or remotely correct. I say remove them.--WillC 15:35, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Each one is sources, and the list is pretty accurate. Raaggio 22:49, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

That list is not "cruft" Will, there are sources and it's an appropriate topic for a list. As to why the MITB matches aren't on there I don't know. They are on the Money in the Bank ladder match page, though, but a link between the two may be needed. Darrenhusted (talk) 23:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

IMO it somewhat is. It is an unneeded, non-notable list of results that you would never find in an actual encyclopedia. Besides that fact, the format is terrible, poorly sourced, etc. No need for a list, actually expand the article. So much info can be placed in inplace of a list. Legacy, variations, etc. What reason is there to list 300 different matches?--WillC 23:14, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

This is all I will say on the subject: the list seems far too long, could never be comprehensive because ladder matches from house shows could be skipped easily (how many have there been? 0? 48? 173? nobody could possibly know), and is not particularly encyclopedic. I can see a great argument for copying it to the Pro Wrestling Wikia, but I don't think it belongs on Wikipedia. GaryColemanFan (talk) 07:33, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Gary, my sentiments exactly.--WillC 08:32, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

As for comprehensiveness, I didn't see any ladder matches from Mexico or Japan listed either. Has there never been one in either country? I think the list is un-needed, as well. I've always thought we should merge all ladder based matches into one article, all cage based matches into one article, etc. without any results listed. Nikki♥311 00:30, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Nikki on the merge idea, but yet disagree. There are some matches that have enough information on them, to be notable enough for their own pages. Like Ultimate X, Hell in a Cell, etc.--WillC 14:21, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Gate

Does anyone know much about this company? The USA brand crowned their first champion this weekend and on their C&A section it is billed as the DUGSA Open The Freedom Gate while the Japanese branch lists the full name, ie Dragon Gate Open The Brave Gate. Certainly on the DGUSA website it is listed as the Open The Freedom Gate Championship, not DGUSA Open... and at most Dragon Gate's Open... Is it just in WWE that we omit the abbreviation to distinguish between the former two old sets of tag titles or should we also do it here if the company don't bill it as DGUSA...? It's a small detail I know but Dragon Gate Open The Brave Gate Championship is both long and sounds tautological, so if it could be truncated that'd be good but if it's correct I don't wanna change it. Tony2Times (talk) 02:21, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The promotion's website seems to refer to it as just "Open the Freedom Gate Championship", no mention of the promotions name (check the News Alert section). TJ Spyke 02:30, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to say on the champion's article, their C&A section includes the DGUSA bit. I can't find anything on the website that has it though, I was also wondering how the original Japanese brand dealt with it. Tony2Times (talk) 03:28, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

If the promotion itself doesn't include their name in the title, then neither should we. BxB Hulk should just have "Open the Freedom Gate Championship" in the C&A section, not "DGUSA Open the Freedom Gate Championship" or "Dragon Gate USA Open the Freedom Gate Championship" or any other variant. That's my opinion, but I don't see why we would invent our own name for it. Maybe DGUSA somewhere uses their initials in the title name. TJ Spyke 03:48, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

This picture states that it is only called "Open the Freedom Gate" The Gaora site does the same for the original dragon gate --Numyht (talk) 23:26, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Is the Gaora site reliable? If so the original championship pages all need to be moved. Tony2Times (talk) 13:13, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

WWF Mayhem in Manchester

This event wasn't a PPV, it was just a normal UK event it seems. What makes it notable enough for an article?--WillC 18:10, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

It was released on VHS in lieu of being a PPV, has it been included on DVD. Otherwise I'm not sure why it has an article. Darrenhusted (talk) 19:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that is why I brung it up here. I think it should be deleted or merged with another article. If it was atleast a very special event I would understand. But I doubt there was much build to it, or if there is enough sources for it to be at least give some useful information. Hell, there is even enough information and sources avaliable for the TNA weekly PPVs to be notable. We don't have those honestly, I don't know why we have this. Just thought to present it here and get some opinions on what we should do with this article.--WillC 22:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I'd suggest getting it proded. And while we're on the matter of international PPVs, I've noticed the list of WWE pay-per-view events has Global Warning listed again. I still can't find any credible source that proves that it was ever on pay-per-view, and it looks like it most certainly was not featured on Australian pay-per-view as Main Event has a list of their previous shows with Global Warning missing from it. Permission to remove? --  Θakster   10:42, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

I say remove it.--WillC 19:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Remember that the notability guideline for shows is not whether or not people paid to watch it on television but rather whether or not is has been discussed in reliable second-party sources. If Mayhem in Manchester fits that guideline, it should stay. If not, it shouldn't. GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:06, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree. But I haven't seen any refs but two or three that cover it. Plus since the event was held in 98, I doubt there is much information covering it anyway. Just decided to bring it up here, and see if anyone had any info on it.--WillC 01:43, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

As long as people keep in mind that the standard for inclusion is whether sufficient coverage exists, not whether it is currently included in the article. GaryColemanFan (talk) 00:15, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Book-class

Since a couple of Wikipedia-Books are wrestling-related, could this project adopt the book-class? This would really help WikiProject Wikipedia-Books, as the WP Pro Wrestling people can oversee books like Hardy Boyz much better than we could as far as merging, deletion, content, and such are concerned. Eventually there probably will be a "Books for discussion" process, so that would be incorporated in the Article Alerts. I'm placing this here rather than on the template page since several taskforces would be concerned.

There's an article in this week Signpost if you aren't familiar with Wikipedia-Books and classes in general. Thanks. Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 20:53, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Anyone for/against this? Or who's not entirely sure what this is all about? Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 07:49, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Well I personally think it's a pretty good idea. I'd be inclined to say go for it. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 17:51, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Alright, since no one said no, I went ahead and created it. Just use {{Pro-wrestling|class=book}} and it'll place the book in Category:Book-Class Professional wrestling articles. I found 7 Pro-Wrestling books, but feel free to browse Category:Wikipedia Books to double check if I missed any.

If you want to write more books, simply start the book creator (click "Create a book", in the print/export toolbox on the left of your screen), and follow instructions. The easiest/fastest way to create a book is to go to a category, add all the pages in that category ("Add this category to your book"), and review the book ("Show book") to create chapters and whatnot. See Help:Books for details. It's pretty easy to use, just toy around with it and you'll figure it out in no time. If something's unclear or confusing, just drop me a line and I'll help as best I can. Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 02:29, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the how-to guide and help. I don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to this sort of thing so if that eventuality arises, it should be easier now. Tony2Times (talk) 03:22, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

BTW, there's also a manual way to create books if you don't like the book-creator, but I'd still suggest using the book-creator at least for the first 2-3 books just so you get the hang of it. Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 03:48, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Final Battle (2009)

This ROH event is getting considerable coverage by reliable third party sites. Would making an article be out of the question?--WillC 01:47, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Links? Nikki♥311 02:16, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Well PWTorch, Wrestling Observer, WrestleView, etc all have articles up on the event. It is going to be avaliable through GoFights.com. From what it seems, this is ROH's main event of the year.--WillC 04:38, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

They always give coverage to Final Battle, as well as the Anniversary shows, Wrestlemania weekend shows, Death before Dishonor and Glory by Honor (which is their main show of the year). 76.28.242.117 (talk) 07:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

It's a PPV, so I don't see why not. Tony2Times (talk) 17:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Yeah it is a technical PPV, but that shouldn't be the deciding reason. This event has gotten a bit more coverage than most.--WillC 19:07, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

New section on Shawn Michaels

I've already proposed it on the Shawn Michaels talk page, but I don't think we'll go anwhere with only 3 users. I would like to add in a new section named Return of D-Generation-X. The Various feuds section is way too long and I'm not the only one complaining, also, I don't think DX reuniting is a feud, it's a storyline--The Celtic Cross (talk) 16:49, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Well if there are no inconvenients then I'll proceed to make the new section--The Celtic Cross (talk) 13:55, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

I was gonna post but then I realised I'm on the fence about it. Tony2Times (talk) 15:39, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, the fence?--The Celtic Cross (talk) 17:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

It is an expression. It means that the user in question is unsure what to decide.--76.66.191.83 (talk) 04:54, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh rigt, sorry. If anyone else would like to share their opinion please do--The Celtic Cross (talk) 16:26, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Sourcing question

I've been doing a little bit of research in terms of city bids for WrestleMania (and in a sense forward as well with XXVII) and I've been searching for the original article in which Vince McMahon mentioned Las Vegas and Paris as rival front-runners against Orlando for WrestleMania XXIV. Sadly, the original article is now a dead link. It took me a while to find the original article but the problem is that the copy I've found is from a message board post. I think it would be an interesting addition to the article but I'm not exactly sure how to handle the sourcing of this. Any suggestions? --  Θakster   00:37, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Web Archive is your friend.  :) ArcAngel (talk) 00:40, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

You're a life saver, thanks. --  Θakster   10:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

TNA Global Championship... again

I think its time to go ahead and move this, there is no indication that TNA in any way does not recognize the name change. They are announcing him as the global champion, its on the website, and they have not forced him to defend it. Sephiroth storm (talk) 03:00, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Give it some more time, the common name of the title is still the Legends Championship.--WillC 09:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Phi Delta Slam

They're like Cryme Tyme and The Edgeheads: Barely any unique info of either member that's enough to warrant them each a seprate article. Can anyone merge them into Phi Delta Slam? PCE (talk) 21:40, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree.--WillC 22:13, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

WWE DVD articles

Hey, I was just wondering if it is possible (read:notable) for WWE DVDS Ex: Tombstone: History of the Undertaker to get their own articles. If they are allowed I will create some articles, if not I won't bother. Thanks Tech43 (talk) 02:16, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Depends on the title. If you can show that it passes the general notability guidelines from Wikipedia, sure. I would suggest working on them in a sandbox first though. TJ Spyke 02:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Can you give me a link to Wikipedia notability guidelines? Tech43 (talk) 02:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

WP:N. GaryColemanFan (talk) 02:30, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Also, Wikipedia:Notability (films). Personally, I would be against separate articles for the majority of them. I feel a single article would be sufficient, to provide information, and to create a nice record, anything beyond that is just promotion, IMO, and will create a bunch more small articles under our purview. Sephiroth storm (talk) 14:46, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Chris Benoit article consensus

For those who aren't aware (I assume most members are, but just in case), there was a consensus on the wording of the opening paragraph of this article, but some users are refused to acknowledge. So I suggested a vote purely to show consensus in an easy to see format, and this is now in progress. Could as many members as possible come on over and voice their view? Thanks. !! Justa Punk !! 06:39, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Watch

Monday Night Wars II page... [1] ^{--UnquestionableTruth--} 07:23, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Bullet do you just have shit watchlisted in case it gets created? Surprising catch, we may want to watch all articles related to that subject.--WillC 14:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a problem with him listing it here? Sephiroth storm (talk) 14:41, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I think he was remarking how well Bullet is at finding pages one wouldn't normally search for (and thus likely aren't notable enough to have their own article). Tony2Times (talk) 18:52, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Second stub drive

The number of stub-class articles has been falling, but the bot that tagged wrestling articles has picked up a few more. We are within striking distance of meeting the New Year's Resolution of getting the percentage of stubs below 10% by the end of 2009. To help with this goal, I am announcing the second Professional Wrestling Stub Reduction Drive, which will last until the end of the year. Please see details at Wikipedia:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Stub drive 2. To see how the last one went, you can check out Wikipedia:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Stub drive. Thanks in advance (and barnstars in January) to anyone who can make a significant contribution toward achieving the resolution. (P.S. - If someone can add this to the newsletter, that would be greatly appreciated.) GaryColemanFan (talk) 07:47, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Excellent idea Gary. We jumped back up to 12.63% this week with the new taggings - we were down at 11.68%. I only wish I had more time to help out. :( I've added it to this week's newsletter, but I wouldn't expect it to be delivered until tomorrow - I was a little late with the message today, and I don't think Misza is online after a certain point. Hope nobody minds too much. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 17:44, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree, excellent idea to close out the year, it's not an impossible task at all. Has anyone figured out approximately how many stubs articles need to be expanded to reach the goal? And I'm definitly in.  MPJ-DK  (40,4% Done) Talk  22:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm in, too. In hindsight, I probably should have waited to do the bot thing until the year was over...but I'm always up for a challenge. Nikki♥311 00:29, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Looking through the stubs, it seems like a lot of the ones that have been added are songs that happened to be used as WrestleMania themes or arenas that were the site of wrestling matches. Some arenas are definitely important enough to the sport to be under the project's scope, but I'm not convinced about all of them. Perhaps a discussion is needed to determine whether or not these should be considered professional wrestling articles. GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:40, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think arenas that have hosted wrestling events (with the rare exception like the Impact Zone) or songs should be included in the project. Should "Live and Let Die" be covered by WikiProject NFL just because it was peformed at the Super Bowl a few years ago? What about songs used in movies? Unless something has significant connection to wrestling, I don't see why it should be covered by us. TJ Spyke 01:48, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with that. So something like Madison Square Garden should be covered, but RiverCentre should not? Nikki♥311 04:01, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, MSG has a very strong connection to wrestling (hell, Vince McMahon is in the MSG Hall of Fame and WWF used to do a weekly show there). TJ Spyke 04:10, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm in--The Celtic Cross (talk) 11:49, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Seems that the bot has tagged characters such as Mammothman which I don't think is appropriate at all. Maybe it'd be helpful to go through the unassessed articles to see if anything is mis-tagged.  MPJ-DK  (42,3% Done) Talk  14:03, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm making a list of articles for various reasons. As I look through the project's accessment cats, I'll check and remove any that don't seem to have a reason to be tagged.--WillC 16:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Billy The P notability

Any thoughts on whether this IWA-MS manager is sufficiently notable for inclusion? He apparently thought he was worth including, so he wrote the article himself. I know very little about the promotion, but I'm always more open to deletion when the article is an unsourced vanity article. GaryColemanFan (talk) 21:39, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of possible PRODs, I can't find any information at all about the NWA UK Central Counties Championship. The only link on the page is to Opentopia, which definitely doesn't meet the requirements for a reliable source. GaryColemanFan (talk) 21:59, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything on either. Nikki♥311 00:27, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

The article should be deleted; per lack of notability and due to the fact that he was only active for two years--The Celtic Cross (talk) 11:52, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Possible mergers

I know I'm loading the board with a bunch of topics today, but I'd really like to get some work done on the stub article reduction. There are a few articles I'd like some feedback on. First of all (and last for tonight), could Ring of Honor Wrestling and Survival of the Fittest (wrestling) be merged into the main Ring of Honor article? GaryColemanFan (talk) 06:12, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Ring of Honor Wrestling, yes, but I'm not so keen on Survival of the Fittest (wrestling)--The Celtic Cross (talk) 11:47, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Survival of the Fittest, but ROH TV no. That show is covered by numerous sites, we have enough info to expand the article to a decent length if someone is willing to.--WillC 16:41, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Paul Burchill

Sorry to bring this up here, but I'm getting at this is the most active page of the pages that cover the matter. Anyway, I read a section here, and I was wondering has anyone got a source that says that the wrestler that ambushed The Hurricane last thursday, is Paul Burchill? Because he is currently listed in unassigned talent, which would be proven wrong if we had a reliable source saying it's Burchill.--The Celtic Cross (talk) 17:18, 7 December 2009 (UTC)