Talk:Tim Kaine

Comments

Smart growth

Well, we've been going back and forth on the Smart Growth section, so I figured this would be an appropriate place to discuss it. A few people here have been adamant that this be written as an issue specific only to Northern Virginia.

Personally, I don't believe that, but I don't expect you to go on my personal beliefs here.

So let's instead see what Kaine himself has to say on the subject. Go to the main campaign webpage, click on "Issues" and go to the section under transportation (or skip all that and just click here). Now, scroll down to the section entitled "Grow Right, Get There Faster". As far as I can tell, this is the only section on his web page that deals with Smart Growth economics, and if you find another section, please feel free to point me in that direction. In any case, he talks about it here. Nowhere is the phrase "Northern Virginia" even mentioned. He talks about it as he would apply it to Virginia on the whole, and as such, I don't see any reason to fence this off as specifically an Northern Virginia issue here.

That's my case to stick to the way I've edited it. Is there anything about that that doesn't sit well with anyone? Amargo Scribe 00:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what Smart Growth is, and it's introduced by saying that it's bad. Then the proponents' sentence is ended noting the stance is dubious. Not sure if it's POV or just a typo, could the writer reword or trim and just link to the definition/controversy? Bob is a proponent of cheese which critics think is naughty. Proponents say cheese is good, but critics disagree. Djbell 21:40, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Failure to Get Virginia Cops 287(g) Training Should Be Discussed in the Article

Although Virginia has been flooded by illegal immigrants, Governor Kaine has failed to take steps to allow Virginia state police to get 287(g) training. Section 287(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provides the legal authority for state and local enforcement to investigate, detain, and arrest aliens on civil and crimi­nal grounds. Kaine has expressed so little concern for the problem of illegal immigration that Virginia police officers have not gotten §287(g) training. As a consequence, Virginia essentially remains a haven for illegal immigrants, with the consequent crime and the consequent burdens on public schools. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.145.138 (talk) 23:38, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

"Overwhelmingly prochoice"

Is there some documentation for that claim?

==waite until January 2006== Until January 2006 (unless Warner dies, resigns or is removed), Kaine is still Lt.Gov. of Virginia ,therefore he shouldn't have a Governor of Virginia template (until he's governor). Mightberight/wrong 14:09, 9 November 2005.

He's "personally pro-life" but he supports abortion rights. He's pro-choice and should not be listed in the group for pro-life politicians. The Secretary of Funk 08:26, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Kaine born in Minnesota

Tim Kaine was born in St. Paul, Minnesota (See [1]), not Kansas City, Mo.

--Bullproof9 18:21, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Info box

There seems to be an edit war in the making over whether to have an infor box and how to style the information, since Kaine has not yet been sworn in as Governor. Rather than reverting each other, can we discuss it here and come to a consensus? Thanks! TMS63112 20:08, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

• wait until January 2006 (Part II), I disagree with info boxes that make assumptions. Codey of New Jersey & Warner of Virginia don't leave office until January 2006. Thought unlikely, either retiring Governor could die, resign or be removed. Alot can happen in the weeks left in their respective terms. Does anyone agree or disagree? Mightberight/wrong 20:36, 9 November 2005.

Early leads. There is no way he has a +14 in the Valley.

New Photo

At Kaine's Governor-elect site, there is a new photo (official Governor's photo) available.

http://www.govelect.virginia.gov/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.151.243.8 (talk • contribs) .

Requested citation

I deleted the portion about Kaine running a "pro-choice" and "pro-death penaly" campaign. I worked for the campaign and i can promise you that he did neither. (unsigned comment by User:68.48.81.61)

Thank you, but Wikipedia does not publish original research. I restored the paragraph with a request for citation. If one can't be provided, the material should be removed. Tom Harrison ^Talk 03:52, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

"His Excellency"

Question. Over on Mitt Romney's page, they use the title "his Excellency" right up top. Since that if officialy a Virginia Governor's title, should we put it on here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.151.243.8 (talk • contribs) .

• I believe the reason Mitt Romney was referred to as "His Excellency", is because he was a recipient of the Olympic Order in Gold. Which was awarded to him by International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge on February 24, 2002. For his outstanding work in organizing the 2002 Salt Lake City, Winter Olympic Games.--Subman758 (talk) 04:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Revert war over photo

There appears to be a revert war going on regarding which photo to use for Governor Kaine. The two images are:

File:Kaine-StatePortrait.jpg "State Portrait"

File:Gov Tim Kaine.jpg "Governor"

Rather than just knocking it back and forth, how about talking about it and see what the community at large would prefer? --StuffOfInterest 18:43, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Those who like "State Portrait"

1. Fits in with portrait of previous governors —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cmc0 (talk • contribs)
2. Public domain, not subject to surprise deletion. — Feb. 21, '06 [00:54] <freakofnur_xture|talk>

Those who like "Governor"

1. Better background, more centered body position. --StuffOfInterest 18:43, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Clarification

"On April 17, Governor Kaine ordered an independent review yesterday of Virginia Tech's handling of Monday's massacre after 24 hours of criticism that the university waited too long to inform students and faculty of a potential danger."

What does yesterday mean in this context? It should probably be edited to make it clear which date it refers to. 128.194.97.20 13:43, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Presidential candidacy?

My sister said she heard something on the news claiming that Kaine is considering running for President. Accurate? WAVY 10 14:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

"Highest Approval rating in the country"

I removed the sentence from the first paragraph that stated that Kaine had the highest approval rating of any Governor in the country. First, the poll is outdated now by at least two months. Second, the SurveyUSA polls referenced only polled a handful of states, not all of the states in the country. Third, in more recent polling, Alaska Governor Sarah Palin has approval ratings in the high 80s, low 90s, smashing Kaine's 60% rating.

Fourth, Kaine's popularity has diminished considerably because of Kaine's failure to control the tsunami of illegal immigration in the Commonwealth of Virginia.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.153.18 (talk) 20:29, October 10, 2008

No doubt you'll be providing a citation for that real soon now. I kid, of course. You and I both know that you totally made that up.--WaldoJ (talk) 04:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Aside from Palin, Governor Joe Manchin also has extraordinarily high ratings, as do Kathy Sebelius, Jodi Rell, Jim Douglas, Charlie Crist, Dave Freudenthal, Brian Schweitzer, John Hoeven, Mike Rounds, and John Lynch.

If 11 of 50 governors have such ratings, then they're not "extraordinarily high," are they? That's really just the top 20%, isn't it?--WaldoJ (talk) 04:51, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Pro-life?

The article says:

Tim Kaine has stated he has a "faith-based opposition to abortion". [2] He also supports promoting abstinence and opposes late-term abortion.[3] Tim Kaine is a member of Democrats For Life of America.

This is a horribly imbalanced and mischaracterizing passage. A quick Google search reveals that Kaine's positions on abortion and sex education shouldn't be characterized like this. See here and here, for example. Also, the statement about Kaine being a member of Democrats for Life of America is wholly un-sourced and I can find no support for it.

Until someone clears these issues up, I'm taking this passage out.

Just a notet I think he pretty much stated this in an interview I saw him in end of July beginning of August I will try and find. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.182.183 (talk) 07:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Richmond murder rate

The end of this section:

The City of Richmond had been long notorious for having one of the highest murder rates in the United States. The trend had worsened greatly in the 1980s, and had continued into the 1990s. As mayor, Kaine was credited with helping to create and implement the gun law known as Project Exile.

makes no sense. Did the murder rate go down during his time on the council (and as Mayor). Tie the points together, please. Also, add citations. AlbertHall (talk) 18:37, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Image of signature

In my correspondence with the office of Tim Kaine over GFDL-ing some of their images, the webmaster made this request:

Also, on Tim Kaine's page, there is a graphic of his signature that needs to be taken down for obvious security reasons. The graphic's page is located here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tim_Kaine_Signature.png

The Licensing section states that this work is in the public domain in the US because it is a work of the United States Federal Government. Then it states under the "Comment" heading that the graphic was taken from an email distributed on the Moving Virginia Forward PAC mailing list. A PAC office is by definition a private group, not affiliated with the United States Federal Government, so there's obviously a conflict here. Please let me know when this graphic can be removed.

Given that the office of Governor Kaine objects to the image being on Wikipedia for security reasons, I have removed it from the article to show good faith until the copyright status can be definitely determined on Wikipedia:Possibly unfree images.

⟳ausa کui ^× 21:16, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I have frankly had it with whichever idiot keeps posting the signature of Governor Kaine. If the signature appears again, I am washing my hands of this and reporting it to the Virginia Attorney General's Office and the Virginia and US Election Commissions. It is a felony for whoever is doing it to post his, or any other sitting office holder's "signature, facsimile thereof, other unique and private identifying information in any public media where that signature or other identifying private information could be used by any unauthorized person, persons or organization to usurp, embezzle, undermine or falsely claim the authority of action of the office. Violations of the section shall be punishable by no less than 2 nor more than 25 years imprisonment and/or a $100,000 dollar fine, or both." (Code of Virginia, Elections and Elected Officials; statutes appertaining to) I WILL NOT be a part of committing a felony. Period. If it shows up again, you and wikipedia can deal with the Virginia Attorney General's office. Themoodyblue (talk) 04:02, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

A couple of policies which may interest you: Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:No legal threats. faithless (^speak) 07:02, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

This does not appear to be a direct legal threat such as "I am going to sue Wikipedia if you don't...", but an explanation of a potential legal violation. See the Wikipedia:Don't overlook legal threats essay for the potential harm caused by ignoring legal issues.

Themoodyblue it is not particularly helpful to call people idiots or to get involved in an edit war and then walk away after posting your first substantive comment. You can probably resolve the problem in a lot less time through discussion than the time you have already spent edit warring. One option for all sides to consider is if there is a legal objection to using the signature a polite request from an official in Virginia to the Wikimedia Foundation may resolve the issue one way or another.

However I would suggest to both of you that you seek third party advice on this issue first before taking precipitous action. It would be a lot more productive to get agreement on where to stand on a potential legal issue than to bury our heads in the sand and hope it goes away. Road Wizard (talk) 07:48, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I received third party advice, from Governor Kaine's office, about this and I am right and they are not happy. If an exemplar of the Governor's signature is out on the internet, then all kinds of forgeries and other things could be potentially created and used illegally. Leave it off! Once he is out of office in January, then it is fine. Until then, it is a felony. And also, it does not violate the legal threats policy to point out a post or contribution directly violates the law. Themoodyblue (talk) 15:20, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Here is the Code of Virginia. Themoodyblue, I can't seem to find anything to support your claims, and it is causing me great vexation. Would you be so kind as to show me where you're pulling this from? Best, faithless (^speak) 20:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi. If there is a real legal issue here, as opposed to a not-real legal issue, it should not be adressed on this talk page, but rather with a letter to the wikimedia legal team. 21:25, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Furthermore, now that I understand this is a virginia issue, I should note that the wikimedia foundation is not located in Virginia. Hipocrite (talk) 21:26, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I also checked for this clause without success. I should also point out that the wording of that law, if it exists, is not as clear as you make it out to be. A plausible (and in my mind, likely) interpretation of the law is that they are prohibiting certain kinds of forgery. For example, someone could write a letter to the Washington Post ostensibly from the Governor ordering citizens to shoot illegal immigrants. By publishing such a letter, random people could point to it as an excuse for murder, so publishing the article is illegal. This may also make the initial letter illegal because it attempts to "falsely claim the authority of action of the office", but that is harder to say since the initial letter writer wasn't actually publishing it himself. But the Wikipedia article is making no attempt to assume any powers of the Governor's office, and as such is unlikely to be violating the alleged ordinance. Yes, someone could borrow the signature to attempt to violate the law, but we don't change articles based on hypotheticals. If you could provide a full quote and a link to the relevant law, it would make this much simpler. Finally, even if the law exists, and the full reading would make this illegal, it's not clear to me how Wikipedia would be subject to it. One of the advantages of an online presence is that you are only subject to the local laws where you are hosted. We don't censor articles at the request of Myanmar or China, so why would we do so for the state of Virginia? —ShadowRanger ^(talk|stalk) 21:31, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Oops, didn't notice Hipocrite's post, so some of my post is a bit redundant. Apologies. —ShadowRanger ^(talk|stalk) 21:32, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Please. This is ridiculous and obviously irrelevant. Who here would be the first to contact His Honor and advise that it may not be in his best interests to sign any future emails he might distribute to the "Moving Virginia Forward PAC mailing list," or to sign any public document for that matter? Steveozone (talk) 03:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

• Burden of proof is not on us to show why this is in copyright. Can someone explain to me what reason we have to believe that this signature is not in copyright? causa sui× 23:01, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

• Nevermind the legal and copyright issues - even if the image got by those with flying colors, it adds nothing of encyclopedic merit to this article and violates our own policy Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Privacy of personal information so has been removed. See discussion at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Tim Kaine. GRBerry 20:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Last name

I didn't know his last name was spelled with a "K". Should Tim Caine and/or Tim Cain redirect or (sorry for the made-up verb) disambiguate to the Tim Kaine page? 192.85.50.2 (talk) 17:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I've redirected Tim Caine to this article. Thanks for the suggestion. ⟳ausa کui ^× 04:15, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Infobox

Would somebody remove Incumbent from the DNC Chairman & Governor of Virgina sections? It's un-needed there, as the fact that his still holding those positions, makes him incumbent. GoodDay (talk) 17:10, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Virginia gubernatorial election, 2009

I am curious, as to why there is no information on this years gubernatorial election. An election I will add, that he lost. This article seems to be biased to him, and fails to mention that he will soon, no longer be Governor of Virginia.--Subman758 (talk) 04:36, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Umm, Subman, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Kaine was not running in this year's election, as Virginia is the only state that does not allow a governor to succeed themselves. He didn't lose the election as he was not IN the election, genius. Please know what you are talking about before you post. If you meant that his party lost the election, that needs to be credited to Sen. Deeds, not Kaine. Deeds was the name on the ticket, and both Kaine and Warner before him had some of the highest approval ratings of any Virginia governor in history. Themoodyblue (talk) 20:02, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Howdy Subman, Governor Kaine couldn't seek re-election. GoodDay (talk) 21:31, 24 November 2009 (UTC)