Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga

Template:Fiction notice

Unsourced BLP clean-up drive

Is it worth putting together a team dedicated to going through our mangaka and voice actor stubs, the ones that are nothing more than a list of works/roles, and doing the trivially easy thing of sourcing at least a couple of them? (Leaving notability aside -- sourcing the entirely unsourced is the goal here.) Just to head the storm off at the pass ... —Quasirandom (talk) 17:19, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Count me in. I will offer a cookie to any editor who fix 30 animanga unsourced articles. It would be nice if our assessment department point us newly created unsourced BLP. --KrebMarkt 17:43, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm starting on this now. Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:52, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Do you think it will not bother any editors, not divert from more important tasks, and not be seized upon by partisans as proof that their brutal approach works? If you think there are no negative effects, well, then, set to! --Gwern (contribs) 17:55 22 January 2010 (GMT)

Thing is that unsourced BLP articles will be either sourced or deleted in near future is a certainty. We just wrestle the right to choose how and when we fight this battle.
I offer cookies & more as form of recognition for editors joining this drive so those who started this "Mini Armageddon" won't be the sole ones to receive praises and accolades. --KrebMarkt 18:31, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I did wonder if some sort of drive would work instead of a collab project, but given the lack of interest there seems to be in that, I'm not sure this would be any more successfull. Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:35, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

No matter how we're doing this, I'm in. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 18:42, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, here the hideout for the Animanga unsourced BLP clean-up drive. --KrebMarkt 19:05, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

@Everyone Fill free to add missing unsourced BLPs to the list as there is only unsourced voice actors in the initial listing which is clearly dubious.

12 of 111 done. Dandy Sephy (talk) 19:40, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I had to go through the list twice, but I managed to do 26. With the 3 done by others, that leaves 82. *collapses* Dandy Sephy (talk) 21:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

4 more and i owe you a cookie. Thanks ;) --KrebMarkt 22:28, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I am willing to undelete any bios deleted as a result of this upon request, if the requester has sources to add to it. --Dinoguy1000 (talk · contribs) as 67.58.229.153 (talk) 18:16, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Update: 50 done and 2 Afds. --KrebMarkt 07:47, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi, just dropping in from the Comics Project. We are running a discussion over there on this [1] and there is a handy tool that spits out a list of unsourced BLPs within the general comics area [2] (just scroll down to the bottom and press the "query" button). We've been going through the list addressing those we can properly source and once we have thinned it down it became clear there were areas where we'd need to contact specialists on the subject and that includes the mangaka (and there are also manhwa and manhua creators too if you have any useful resources for them). I see you are already doing a fine job and I just wanted to make sure none were missed (because experiences shows most can be given at least one source - it is just knowing where to look that can be a problem). If there is anything we can do to help feel free to drop us a note in that section I link to. (Emperor (talk) 02:48, 1 February 2010 (UTC))

Thanks. For the information. --KrebMarkt 06:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

There are also quite a few seiyū and some mangaka listed here. They are not tagged as such, though. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:06, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Bumping the topic :p --KrebMarkt 16:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Fictional character sorting

Rather than having to AFD every single article about a charatcer from a series which is unreferenced, contains only in universe information, and lacks an sources to make it an adequate article can we please discuss the problem without personal attacks please. If there is consensus that a lot of the cruft should be summarised and merged into charatcer lists which I fully support I suggest that we could create a list of articles needing merging and then simply do it, saving time at AFDs. This is a genuine attempt to find a way to avoid conflict with you and in the long run work towards sorting out this big problem. If you respond aggressively to me after this post when I am trying to save conflict and time over opening individual AFDs this is unnecessary. I would genuinely like to help clean up a problem but call upon your epxertise of charatcers and this topic to assess what or what should not be redirected. Please give me a chance. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ^ΨMonastery 15:56, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree. The project started a good effort towards it awhile back, and at the minimum we still have a good sized list from those discussions that need worked on, and likely many more too. Seems like it would be a good idea to revist the list, add/update entries, and prioritize to get things going again. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 16:01, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I should point out that much of the problem has come from your own way of trying to achieve this, and the ignoring of several key points and essentially dumping all the work on us. As long as you actively contribute and don't essentially attack us for something we can't physically cope with at that scale, then you'll get a easier time of it. No one denies the work needs doing, but previous attempts at getting a project wide joint effort going have gone largely to waste, and we don't have the benefit of sheer numbers to throw at it.Dandy Sephy (talk) 16:07, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Please note, I am not "demanding" that everybody suddenly works hard to clean them up. Every project has its bad content which needs cleaning up and I am fully aware this takes time, especially if people are busy with other projects and numbers are sparse. In a more relaxed, less conflicting atmosphere I am proposing that a few people, myself if needs be go through Category:Anime and manga characters by series and come up with a full list of proposed mergers of ones that should obviously be merged. This way I do not need to take each one to AFD and waste time but it can be done in a coordinated fashion over time without pressure or conflict. Once there is a consensus then that we have a "hot list" of articles that should definately be merged the active project members reach a consensus and simply redirect into the list article. OK? ‡ Himalayan ‡ ^ΨMonastery 16:09, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I like everyone to note that Himalayan Explorer has been deliberately antagonistic with the deletion nominations of two character articles, especially attacking me with this comment and then declaring a disruption AfD campaign. Even after Collectonian already suggest that character article are merged instead of deleted.[3] All of this is because Himalayan I called him on making demands on other editors in to voice actor AfDs over WP:ENT and the immediate expansions of the articles to non-stubs. —Farix (t | c) 16:13, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

From now on I have no time to answer anything which is less than constructive. If I was trully deliberately antagonistic I would not have posted here and proposed this. Anyway I ask thou for forgiveness and to accept repentance of all my sins. An idea would be to create a special project tag which once the article is tagged it autmatically places it in something like Category:Anime and manga-related articles proposed for merger. This way it limits the time that has to be spent on it and once there is consensus amongst you guys they can gradually be redirected. I;d be happy to create a tag and category to assist in this. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ^ΨMonastery 16:09, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

There is a category here Category:Anime and manga articles to be merged :-) -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 16:25, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I plan on going through the list and pushing the merges that have been proposed and removing the ones that are mearly suggestions on the talk page and/or old merge tags. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:31, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

The irony is that you are removing the 'suggestions' from talk pages for articles that should probably be merged, just because there is no template on the article page. This creates the false impression that there are only x articles to merge when in reality it's a lot higher. Surely any character article that doesn't demonstrate immediate notability should have the templates added and not being removed from the category? Otherwise it's covering up the problem rather then fixing it. Dandy Sephytalk) 05:14, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I am not touching current merge discussions or articles that look like they need to be merged, and am trying to add tags where I can. The things I am removing are tags that were placed months/years ago with no results. Hey if you want to make a merge, okay add a tag and make a discussion about it, id be happy to help. Someone who suggests a merge and puts a tag on it with months/years going by since doesnt make much sense either. I have found talk pages (marked for merge) that no longer go with the article (article has since been turned into a redirect), as well as pages needed to be tagged for merge. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:00, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Most of these articles were tagged with |merge=yes during the 2008 tag and assess with the intention being to categorize them for future merging – i.e. for statistical and record purposes, as opposed to starting actual merge discussions (Which require proper mainspace merge tags). Thus, it is OK to remove the tag if the articles were redirected, or if a merge is clearly not appropriate anymore. But other than that, the tags should remain (or even better, the articles should be merged). G.A.S^talk 17:37, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

An article was just 'processed' with the reasoning there is nowhere to merge it to. Except I already have a target in early sandboxing (I created the article originally, it's long been on my list to merge it to a discography). It should be noted that just because a target page doesn't currently exist, doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't make one.Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:01, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Why havent no merge tags been added then? Anything with a merge tag can be open to more of a discussion rather than a tag now fix later route. As ive said some of these merge tags in talk pages have been added months/years ago, why hasent anyone thought of merge places or target pages since then? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:07, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Comment - I mean no disrespect to any other editors here I just think a new system needs to be put in place here, some of the merge tags in the talk pages are almost 2 years old as GAS pointed out and nothing has been done on some of the articles to suggest pages to merge too since then. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Glad to see you have something like this. But I was thinking of something more specific geared to sorting the fictional character article. I've created Template:Merge Anime/Manga. I'd be happy to go through the articles and tag the character seperate articles which seem like they should be merged but it is probably best that somebody more familiar with the subject matter like yourself tags them. But if needs be I am willing to do it. I don't think it is freasible to merge decent, sourced character articles which are well balanced into a list but I think a lot of similar level charatcers to the ones to AFD could be merged... ‡ Himalayan ‡ ^ΨMonastery 16:50, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Not every fictional character needs to be merged, ones that have coverage and are notable should stay. I can not tell you how many times I have seen fictional character articles tagged then AfD'ed a day later. WAIT FOR REFERENCES ALREADY! Episodes, and Mangas can be cited as references as well as outside coverage. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:03, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I am also sure there are unreferenced totally in universe articles about charatcers which are actually notable enough to be improved at some point in the future, filled out with out of universe info and made understandable to the average reader and reliably sourced. Anzu Mazaki for instance has some good sources and might be salvagable as a seperate article but still needs a lot of work. Rather it is the minor characters and condensing of a lot of in universe material that would be redirected. But taggin them is a much more relaxed way to identify what needs to me merged and the outstanding problem and if the article has wrongly been tagged that can be sorted out at a later date when somebody has a moment to sort the article. But I think in the long term this is a good thing, as I know that most of the active members here would want nothing better than to have a good quality article on everything and well balanced/well sourced articles but they seriously lack the time to cleanup the entire project. It isn't fair to throw a truck load of AFDs at any one project at once however bad the article, to a tag and a gradual merger would be the best solution. The only trick part will be how to summarise a huge load of in universe information into a list and what or what not to include. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ^ΨMonastery 17:24, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

(Joining the discussion) I am not quite sure if the tag is necessary—that is actually the reason {{WikiProject Anime and manga|merge=yes}} (with 998 members!) and Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Cleanup task force#Articles needing to be merged (with 481 articles listed) exists. Especially the latter, as is also indicates the intended target page. Tags also tend to be removed from articles (the Cleanup task force page does not have this problem). Not to mention that someone will have to sync the category to the Cleanup task force page... G.A.S^talk 14:52, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I think a few of us should make a effort to reduce that cleanup page merge listing, it's barely budged for months. Much of the time very little needs to actually be merged and a simple redirect is enough. Once we've made a sizeable dent in it, we can look at what needs to be done next. While I don't expect us to clear our backlogs, the longer we take to tackle the issue the worse it gets. If we run into issues where people don't like the merges, they will have to compromise and help decide what is relevant information to keep - or force them to prove notability within a set time.Dandy Sephy (talk) 05:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that I implemented |mergefrom= and |mergeto= parameters in the project banner some time ago, which can be used to specify target pages (e.g. |mergeto=[[List of Series X characters]]). Both of these parameters override |merge= when used, but all three categorize the page to the same category. This functionality is especially useful for poorly-written character and other fictional element articles (especially pure in-universe plot summary stubs without any navboxes, series categories, or helpful links) which can otherwise be particularly problematic - using the more specific parameters thus allows future editors to know at a glance where the article is proposed to be merged to. --Dinoguy1000 (talk · contribs) as 67.58.229.153 (talk) 03:20, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

• It is suggested an article be merged with another article that no longer even existed. [4] That's on the list of things at Category:Anime and manga articles to be merged. Not a perfect system. Can you make a bot to load the date the merge suggestion was added, to be displayed with the other information as well? Maybe even list the suggested target. Present it in a list format, that easier to get through. Even sort things that are similar into one group, if they are from the same series, since usually when someone tries to merge one character or something else from a series, they attempt to do other things as well at the same time from that series. Dream Focus 20:50, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

I actully made that merge tag recently, List of Cowboy Bebop Music as the articles dont appear to be doing well as stand alones. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:19, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

There is no such thing as a perfect system, but tagging to red links isn't a bad thing. Album/single articles within the project are almost never going to have enough coverage for a proper well developed article that stands alone, so suggesting merging them to as yet uncreated pages is no bad thing. Even if it's just a copy/paste merge with a basic lead, it's better then 100s of articles that don't establish notability (really this is a separate issue that needs working on). IIRC chart positions and such are not enough, it needs to be critical reception. Dandy Sephy (talk) 06:21, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

As Dandy says, redlink merge targets are no problem, and are actually fairly common amongst our articles. In the particular case of Cowboy Bebop Tank! THE! BEST! (and the other CB album/soundtrack/single articles), they've been needing to be merged to a list for quite awhile (and the rest of the CB articles could also use some love, but that's not directly relevant). I'm not sure about the "List of music" name though, "List of soundtracks" or "List of albums" would probably be better. --Dinoguy1000 (talk · contribs) as 67.58.229.153 (talk) 06:53, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

List of soundtracks or list of albums would be more proper. --KrebMarkt 09:22, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

AMS-119 Geara Doga (October 2009 Merge)

Going through the merge list I found this, it appears to be a result of a closed AfD. Should a new AfD be proposed if this is not to be merged? - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:27, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Would be inclined to just redirect it to Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack since the AfD listed no target and its for a single work. Else, yep, another AfD. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 22:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I do not hear anyone objecting to a redirect. It sounds better than another AfD unless someone really opposes it, there were no keeps to be found in the past AfD. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:32, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Silence means consensus I am just going to be bold then and redirect the article. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:32, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Hellsing Characters

Apart from Alucard there is not one reference to be found in the other articles for tne characters of the anime. I do not see why articles like these: Walter C. Dornez should be kept and would support a merge to List of Hellsing characters.

Army of the Southern Cross

While going through the list I found this, Is there a reason why this is being kept? No real work has been done on it to help improve the article in months. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 19:28, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Flag Clean up Proposal

Since its been a few months since consensus agreed flags should be removed from the infoboxes, I've made a proposal for getting the boxes cleaned up at Template talk:Infobox animanga#Clean up? as well as opened a discussion on how countries should now be formatted. Views appreciated. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 05:27, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

A shame because it shows the reader the nationality of the manga and all of the companies nationalitys that picked up licences. With all the other things on wiki that flags are used when they are not supposed to on why signal this out? Dont mind this, just an opinion. I do not think adding the flags would offend anyone. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 06:32, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

It's more of a matter of compliance with the manual of style on use of flags. In my opinion, emphasis on the country of publication is unnecessary. Most of the time it is understood that a manga or anime would be first released in Japan. Even the English-language licenses technically need no specification of country other than the fact that they are published in English. It would also cause unnecessary confusion if another country imports an English-language license because it is not published in English locally. I'm currently employing {{Tooltip}} for Twin Spica but am not sure whether its usage complies with the policy on accessibility. I have also used the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 country codes in Summer Wars. {{Vgrelease}} also seems to be a popular option. Arsonal (talk) 20:29, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I like the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 method best, without the tool tips. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 20:36, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

It's straightforward but unfortunately breaks down when you have anime that are broadcast on Animax Asia in at least 5 countries. Arsonal (talk) 05:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Hmm...that's true. ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 17:21, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

For starters, the |XXX_other= fields have been deprecated and should be replaced with sourced text in the article. So that will eliminate most of the need for flagicons. Personally, I like to do the same with the English parameters, including |licensor=, and leave the information in the infobox to focus entirely on the original Japanese release. Thus completely eleminating the need for icons or any other form of national notation. —Farix (t | c) 19:18, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah! Excellent idea! ~Itzjustdrama ^{? C} 23:06, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm also leaning toward that way. It's more something to add information in prose especially if you have to bring the source that goes with it. I found, it's too easy for some editors to stuff infobox with flags, leaving the job to source them to others editors. More of those flags got ditched during GA review due to the lack of source. --KrebMarkt 21:10, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Some general thoughts from me (sort of responding to several comments above, so not bothering trying to indent right): my personal favorite method out of those which I've seen is definitely {{vgrelease}}, but I hate imagining how complicated a version for our articles would have to be, even completely ignoring all releases except Japanese and English. I am also dead-set against just using unadorned ISO 3-letter codes for countries, since there will be plenty of readers who don't know what country a given code is for, and some of the codes are ambiguous (KOR, for instance, is specifically for South Korea, but it would be a very easy mistake to make to think it refers to Korea as a whole, and I doubt anyone could tell me offhand what the code for Cambodia, for example, is). These problems are mitigated somewhat when we again limit usage to just Japanese and English releases, but they are definitely still there. I also like Farix's suggested approach of rolling English release information into the licensor field, which I think could be used as an excuse to get rid of country information in the infobox altogether (like non-English releases, English release intricacies could then be covered entirely in the prose). I would, however, appreciate anyone coming across unique cases (such as a series intended for release in one or more countries other than Japan), listing them here or on Template talk:Infobox animanga to ensure we end up with consistent handling of those cases. --Dinoguy1000 (talk · contribs) as 67.58.229.153 (talk) 03:39, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

IP editor changing publication and removing end dates

I like someone else to go over the edits of 24.57.16.60 (talk). I've noticed that they have been changing publications dates or removing end dates entirely from the infobox. Many of these end dates have been sourced in their respective episode or volume lists. Here is one example from Shugo Chara!. I'll also note that the same IP has been editing Fushigiboshi no Futagohime and List of Fushigiboshi no Futagohime characters with both articles looking extremely grotesque, the former I've already reverted. —Farix (t | c) 17:46, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Another Brazilian IP account, 201.67.70.93 (talk), which I like someone to review their edit history. They are also changing publication dates, changing titles, and adding a non-template navbox to several article regarding the Anime Grand Prix. I'm not sure that the navbox is appropriate. But if it is to be kept, it should be trimmed to just the winners and made into a normal template. I've already had to revert the editor twice at Mobile Suit Gundam 00 over splitting the seasons into individual infoboxes dispute a previous discussion on the matter. —Farix (t | c) 02:34, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Well Nihonjoe moved it into a template and I trimmed it down to just the winners and use the English language titles. However, the IP reverted the trimming and titles. —Farix (t | c) 11:44, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how that template is useful, viable, or appropriate at all. Its big, ugly, bloated, and it doesn't seem like a remotely noteworthy "award" to even list on articles. Its a single magazine's user voted award. That doesn't need a template. For now, at least, I've cut it back down to just the actual winners, rather than the top three. That made it at least a reasonable footprint, though the IP is running around throwing it on every random article he can. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:31, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

I've already trimmed that template down to just the winners before. It seems that the Brazilian IP has some ownership issues. —Farix (t | c) 18:33, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

There's also one (pretty sure it's our Brazilian friend; he's edited from several different IPs here) who's been making inappropriate edits to Template:Saint Seiya. I reverted him a few times, but he insists that his version is correct (even though the way he's going about it is blatantly contrary to our navbox practices). --Dinoguy1000 (talk · contribs) as 67.58.229.153 (talk) 04:44, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

He's back at it again, in spite of my explaining that he needs to get an article renamed before changing the link text in the navbox (and that is hardly the worst of the changes he's making, either; he goes back and forth between explaining the article *should be* named as such and just reverting without an edit summary); would anyone care to file an RFPP for me? --Dinoguy1000 (talk · contribs) as 67.58.229.153 (talk) 06:56, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Request filed. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 07:04, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Thankee. =) --Dinoguy1000 (talk · contribs) as 67.58.229.153 (talk) 07:15, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Strawberry 100%

Anyone want to work on Strawberry 100%? I've blanked the reception section as it was entirely unsourced and based on personal views of a couple of editors and was not based on any reliable sources. I've also tagged the main article and the character list as there appears to be a more extensive OR problems in both. —Farix (t | c) 13:39, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

There's certainly no shortage of material to work with: http://www.google.com/cse?cx=009114923999563836576%3A1eorkzz2gp4&q=%22Strawberry+100%25%22 --Gwern (contribs) 14:50 14 February 2010 (GMT)

Toon Zone RS assessment

Members of this project are invited to comment on an assessment of Toon Zone (www.toonzone.net) as a possible reliable source. Arsonal (talk) 02:20, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

English or Japanese title?

Should Uchū Senkan Yamato: Fukkatsu hen be renamed by its English title? Dwanyewest (talk) 18:28, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Space Battleship Yamato seems the logical name, although I've no idea if we should translate the subtitle. Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:45, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Apparently the english title translation is Rebirth Yamato maybe that should be the name Dwanyewest (talk) 21:59, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

ANN is giving the title as Space Battleship Yamato Resurrection. The official Starblasers website is giving the title as Yamato Rebirth. Are there any sources for a title of Rebirth Yamato? —Farix (t | c) 15:39, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Asurada series Cyber Formula racecars

I do not see any notability in these, there is even a succession box that starts with Asurada GSX as well as a Cyber Formula driver infobox. In all is this really all notable and in universe enough or can it be prodded? As it is also Future GPX Cyber Formula is a mess. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:59, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Toaru Majutsu no Index terminology AfD

Is it me, or have there been a lot of SPAs at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Toaru Majutsu no Index terminology? Perhaps someone should check to see if there isn't an outstanding meat puppetry calls on some forum. —Farix (t | c) 12:38, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

A lot of SPAs, not all voting on the same side, which is odder still. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not a bad faith assumption as there are suggestions it's possible. [5][6] One user voted after a message was left on his talk page. Dandy Sephy (talk) 18:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Repeated mis-categorization of shows under the "kodomo" demographic

The new user Fairryprincess (talk, contribs) continues to categorize various animated WMT series such as Princess Sarah and Heidi, Girl of the Alps as kodomo, even though these series have not been published in kodomo manga publications and have not been referred to as such by any notable or published source. Even after I explained the policies of verifiability and notability and that demographic categorizations such as seinen or kodomo must be supplanted by reliable sources, this user has continued with these disruptive edits. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 19:54, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Reverted and warned for edit warring. The behavior sounds oddly familiar....-- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 19:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. And yes, it's possible that an anon with an history of similar edits might have resurfaced with a new account. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 20:08, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Note that kodomo is not a genre, but a demographic group. But as far as I know, we do not have any published demographics for the World Masterpiece Theater series. So labeling something in the series as part of a particular demographic is unverifiable. —Farix (t | c) 20:39, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Question

I'm planning on splitting the "Specials" from the article List of Case Closed episodes. Is there any problems with this? I plan on working on it once I receive an answer. DragonZero (talk · contribs) 06:55, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

What is the rationale for splitting it? --Kraftlos (Talk | Contrib) 09:18, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

I want to decrease the size to the episode list. More episodes are expected from the specials section per year though. 1 for the Shonen Jump specials, and 1 for the Magic Files section. DragonZero (talk · contribs) 09:20, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't see why not. It will help keep the format of lists in the main episode list consistent. I believe we also have an unwritten guideline that about 13 episodes (equivalent to a season's worth) is enough material for a separate list, provided that there is enough information for a sizeable lead. Arsonal (talk) 08:10, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Okay thanks. DragonZero (talk · contribs) 08:21, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Super Dimension series moved

I've moved all the "Super Dimension" series per the discussion here. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 07:49, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Google indicates there are 392,000 results for "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross" versus 101,000 results for "Super Dimension Fortress Macross." It is streaming from Hulu as "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross." It is listed in AnimEigo's website as "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross." 1-54-24 (talk) 11:57, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Google hits are not a reliable source for anything, and do not represent any official usage of the title. Hulu's top graphic may use "the" but the page name does not. The page itself says 'Title Super Dimension Fortress Macross'. Animeigo released the series as 'Macross Tv' the name they also give that page and url on their site, their liner notes are secondary to what they actually released the product as. ADV also dropped 'The' when releasing their version of the tv series, and 'The' was dropped on Macross II as well.Dandy Sephy (talk) 12:56, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

WP:MOS-AM recognizes the "most commonly known English title" that is "best known," and Google results are a valid measure of that. AnimEigo and Hulu's releases demonstrates, contrary to the archived discussion, that English releases use both wordings with "The" and without it. In fact, there was never a release called "Super Dimension Fortress Macross II," just "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers, Again" or "Super Dimensional Fortress Macross II." Similarly, there was never a release called "Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?," just "The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?" "Macross: Do You Remember Love?" or "Super Spacefortress Macross." As it stands, these articles are listed under titles that are neither the most commonly known title nor any released title. 1-54-24 (talk) 13:12, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

User:1-54-24 is correct that Google hits are a valid way of determining which name is the most commonly used, per WP:UCN and WP:SET. I also agree that all of the titles should be at a name that was actually used, even if that would make the names inconsistent with each other. If they have been released under inconsistent names, then we should mirror that rather than trying to make them consistent ourselves. Calathan (talk) 14:57, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily true. We do go by common usage, but that is further qualified by common usage in reliable sources. Search engine hits cannot immediately distinguish reliable sources from not. Arsonal (talk) 17:53, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

In this case, we're talking about one of two titles in reliable sources, as well as titles that are in the original sources versus titles that are not used in the sources at all. 1-54-24 (talk) 18:16, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Arsonal, I think what you are saying is missing the point of a search engine test. Though we should use the name most commonly used in reliable sources, a search engine test is an accepted way to assess which is the most common when it otherwise isn't clear which is most common. My understanding of WP:UCN is that if the most commonly used name is clear from reading the reliable sources then that name should be used, but when it isn't clear, using the number of Google hits is a way to choose a name to use. I think the number of Google hits (including both reliable and unreliable sources) is intended as a way to approximate the usage in reliable sources. However, I'm not saying that we necessarily should use search engine tests in this case, only that I think it is an accepted way to pick a name to use if it seems there are multiple titles in use in reliable sources and it isn't clear otherwise which is the most commonly used. Calathan (talk) 19:18, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Please be sure to read the discussion I linked to as it explains why the renaming is correct. To reiterate, all of the English-language releases I've seen (and I own all of them, too) omit the "The". All of them. On the covers, inserts, printing on the disc, in the subtitles and other titling, etc. All of them. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:14, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

This is not correct, as explained above. AnimEigo's liner notes do not omit "The." AnimEigo's website does not omit "The." Hulu has "The." As it stands, several of the articles use titles that are not actually used in any release. 1-54-24 (talk) 03:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I did read the previous discussion. I don't think the main issue is whether the titles omit "The". While I think you can make a good case for the original series being at Super Dimension Fortress Macross, I think the most commonly used name for Macross II is just "Macross II", without "Super Dimension Fortress" or "Lovers, Again". None of the English language packaging I've seen has "Lovers, Again" on it. You could make a case for "Super Dimensional Fortress" with "Dimensional" not "Dimension", as that is written on the packaging I've seen. However, from what I've seen just "Macross II" is most commonly used when talking about it, and the words "Super Dimensional Fortress" only appears on the box art but is rarely used otherwise. For example, the version RightStuf is selling is listed as "Macross II Movie", and the version Netflix is streaming is listed as "Macross 2: The Movie". WP:UCN calls for the most commonly used name among reliable sources to be used, even if it is not the official name, and in my opinion "Macross II" is the most commonly used name. I know that WP:MOS-AM says that the most commonly used name is most often the official title, but it doesn't say it has to be, and I think the instructions at WP:UCN take precedence over WP:MOS-AM anyway. Similarly, I think Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? is not an official name or a commonly used name. I would say that "Macross: Do You Remember Love?" is the most commonly used name in English. In this case, I think none of the official English titles are commonly used at all. From what I've seen, most reliable sources use "Macross: Do You Remember Love?" (e.g. [7]). To summarize, what I'm suggesting is:

• Super Dimension Fortress Macross - stays where it is now
• Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love? - move to Macross: Do You Remember Love?
• Super Dimension Fortress Macross II: Lovers, Again - move to Macross II

For the others, I don't know what is commonly used off the top of my head and haven't looked into them. Calathan (talk) 04:57, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Along the same lines of thinking, we have two official titles for the first Macross series, but one happens to be the most commonly used and "best known." 1-54-24 (talk) 05:35, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Anime and manga related redirects

Category:Anime and manga related redirects is populated by the newly created Template:Anime r and I'm wondering if this is a good idea. Normally redirects are tracked via the project banner on the talk page. Doing it this way seems to mess up Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Anime r. Has this template and category been discussed anywhere? Are they a good idea? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I cannot recall any discussion on this... Personally, I feel that this is redundant to the talk page |class=redirect parameter and the usual {{R from other capitalisation}}/{{r to section}}/{{CharR to list entry}} (etc.) templates. But that is just me.^_^ G.A.S^talk 12:14, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Agree with G.A.S. Such a template was not discussed and it is redundant to the existing templates and the project box param. Sending to TfD. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 14:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't there a recent CfD that's related to this? *rummages through junk drawer* Ah, here we go: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 January 19#Category:WikiProject Anime and manga redirects. —Quasirandom (talk) 14:16, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Nononono (manga)

Is this manga notable in any way? I placed a construction tag on the article as the article appears new but right now to avoid an AfD it needs quite a bit of work. (P.S, this is knowledgekid87, I am just on a public computer right now hence the non login) - 205.172.21.157 (talk) 19:37, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I removed a prod without really being sure. Author is notable, and the series has lasted nine volumes, which is pretty long for that magazine and usually indicates a hit. Page was created by an inexperienced editor, and was a real mess at the time of nomination. Doceirias (talk) 02:52, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

7 days is the period construction usually should last, if no progress has been made I will endorse the AfD. I think I have actully seen this manga article in the past and do think I remember it being deleted. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:01, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Repeated addition of hoaxes into related articles

An anonymous editor, using a series of IP addresses (76.118.115.224, 75.144.160.241, 75.147.11.106), all of which seems to originate from the same area or school, has continued to plant hoaxes into articles related to the O-Parts Hunter series for over a month now, in spite of repeated warnings not to do so. It's not your everyday vandalism either, as one not familiar with either the series or studio could be mistaken into believing these are genuine edits. Perhaps semi-protection of these pages, or something similar, is in order? ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 01:49, 24 February 2010 (UTC)