Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine

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List of archives

Merged Archive WikiProject Preclinical medicine: 1 Merged Archive WikiProject Clinical medicine: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 WikiProject Medicine Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172

A couple of merge proposals folks might want to disucss

• Bone pain in children into Bone pain (discuss)

 Done PDCook (talk) 04:08, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

• Malignant brain tumor into Brain tumor (discuss)

PDCook (talk) 17:54, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Agree merge both.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 00:54, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Support both proposed mergers. ---kilbad (talk) 01:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I also support both. Tyrol5 [Talk] 19:58, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

It's probably better to avoid splitting these discussions across multiple pages; please consider commenting directly at the linked merge proposals. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

I still do not completely understand mergers. Although I am aware that the histories of both pages are combined, it has often seemed to me that very little of the smaller article remains. Immunize (talk) 22:05, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requested articles/Applied arts and sciences/Medicine

Have cleaned up / organized the requested article page. Have added a lead giving instruction on how this page should be used. Any comments / improvement proposals for the instructions?Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:00, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Along those lines, does anyone know about an article that I expected to easily find at the redlink, Aspirin therapy? We have a few paragraphs in other articles, e.g., Aspirin#Prevention_of_heart_attacks_and_strokes, but I can't find a regular article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:16, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Would this not be Aspirin#Therapeutic_uses?--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:32, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

No, it seems to be the name specifically for the 'daily baby aspirin prevents heart attacks' idea, not any therapeutic use. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:47, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

That is a therapeutic usage. This PMID 16490462 discusses it.--Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:51, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but I'm trying to find out whether there's an extant article on THE aspirin therapy, not on ALL aspirin therapies.

Does anyone know if we have a completely separate article that addresses solely the use of aspirin to prevent ischemic cardiovascular artery disease? WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:33, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Not that I am aware of. I guess if the section on the aspirin page becomes to big it could be broken of as a page on Therapeutic uses of aspirin or some such name.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:53, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

List of causes of... articles

Are lists such as List of causes of diarrhea and List of causes of fever acceptable topics? Tim Vickers (talk) 20:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

They're fundamentally lists of differential diagnoses, and as such, I think they're sourceable (and therefore probably WP:Notable). Whether they're really desirable is a different story.

Another proposed approach is to add an external link to an outside list, as discussed above. An external link has the advantage of being less work for us, and the disadvantage of not taking readers to the Wikipedia articles about the individual ddxes. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:26, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I feel that the lists are desirable, as they are typically fairly comprehensive, provide references, and educate the reader. Immunize (talk) 20:56, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I do not think we can do these lists well and therefore they think they should be discourage. Have suggested as WIAD mentioned that we add a link to DiagnosisPro which does an excellent job of differentials and does by the way take suggestion. Than possibly get rid of all these lists. Template_talk:Infobox_symptom#Differential_diagnosis. I recommend that when writing articles about signs and symptoms that rather than writing the differential in list form we provide a brief summary of each condition mentioned such as has been done at limp and testicular pain.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:58, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Why not use DiagnosisPro as a source, rather then adding an external link and then mass-deleting lists? Immunize (talk) 21:10, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Problems with using DP extensively as a source is copyright issues as this would basically be a cut and past. How many of these lists do we have? I am suggested to keep the info in article and expand each to a brief summary of the condition with hopefully comments on the relative prevalence of different condition in the DD.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

(ec) I think the problem with these articles is that, from my perspective, they sort of encourage people to use WP for medical advice. If people want to look up diarrhoea, they go to the diarrhoea article, but people with those symptoms who want to look it up could often go to one of these lists to find out what is causing it, and misunderstand something or get worried, partly because it is out of context. IMO, I think these are only desirable if they provide sufficient context and additional information, for example the prevalence of the conditions, rather than just a list, as one would find if it were part of the main article. Jhbuk (talk) 21:11, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

It already states that WP should not be used for medical advice, but if you feel it is still an issue, I would suggest putting a statement on every list of symptom causes explicitly stating that this list should not be used as medical advice. We could even create a template for this purpose. Immunize (talk) 21:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:No disclaimers in articles: A disclaimer is neither necessary nor appropriate. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:08, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes. My point was really more that these types of article specifically are probably more prone to people using them for advice than with most articles, and that they could do more harm than good if we don't put the information in context. Jhbuk (talk) 22:18, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

All lists should be merged with their parent articles. If a cause for diarrhoea is not worth mentioning on diarrhea, it is probably not notable for the list either. JFW | T@lk 22:49, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with JFW and that without appropriate context these lists should probably be deleted not cut and pasted and moved over to the main article.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:09, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I was not aware that disclaimers were not allowed on articles, but does a template really count as a disclaimer if is says sometinhing like "not intended as medical advice"? Immunize (talk) 23:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes that would count as a disclaimer. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, I feel that if the lists cannot remain in there current form, they should be merged into there parent articles not deleted. For instance, I feel list of causes of fever should be merged into Fever, which has only a short causes section. However I still feel that it would be best for the lists to remain in there current form. Yes, there is a risk that these pages could be taken as advice, but we have an appropriate disclamier that should dissuade this use of the lists here. Immunize (talk) 23:26, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I have no concerns about this being health advice. My concern is I do not think large lists of differentials are encyclopedic. There are 744 causes of abdo pain [1] 1089 causes for fever [2]. This IMO is not what we should be doing. Others do it so much better and we should just link to them than do what we are here for WP:ENC. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 23:33, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Completely agree wrt encyclopaedic purpose. It would be encyclopaedic to indicate common causes in the parent articles. Listing all possible causes dilutes the value of the list so it becomes a pointless exercise. Colin°^Talk 09:16, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree completely: much better to add a external link.--Garrondo (talk) 11:05, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I completely disagree. As WhatamIdoing (talk · contribs) said, these lists are notable, and most of the lists are well sourced (for instance, in my list of causes of fever, each disease listed has a reference that certifies that it can cause fever, so they are well sourced and meet WP:NOTABLE guidelines. Best wishes. Immunize (talk) 14:45, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

We have no notability guideline for lists; WP:NOTABLE is irrelevant to this discussion. The consensus here is that these lists in their present form (a bare list that mixes the exotic with the commonplace) are pointless. I see from your talk page that you have assumed that since other such lists haven't been deleted that they are therefore useful. Our Deletion policy wouldn't delete such a list but don't confuse that with whether the list has merit. Colin°^Talk 21:22, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

No, I said that the lists are probably WP:Notable; I make no definitive or authoritative statement, because, as Colin indicates, there are no simple rules for determining notability for lists. Even if the subject of the list is accepted, notable subjects are not required to be kept as separate articles.

Additionally, a laundry list may be less useful for our readers than an explanation. Take fever as an example: nearly all fevers are caused by infectious diseases. Isn't it more useful and more readable to learn "probably caused by an infectious disease" than to hear "probably caused by an infectious disease, and here are the names of nine hundred infectious diseases in alphabetical order"? WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:26, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with this emerging consensus that a giant list of causes is useless. It makes more sense to list in the parent article several of the major causes of (insert symptom here), and then supply external links that go into more detail. PDCook (talk) 21:30, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

So, my lists are in no danger of deletion? Immunize (talk) 21:52, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

No, the consensus seems to be that these lists are not encyclopedic. I agree with that consensus. The useful parts of these lists should be merged into the parent articles. Eubulides (talk) 21:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I would like to add to PdCooks comment that a brief summary of each condition listed in the differential would put the condition into context and add greatly to the article.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:01, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be consensus that these lists are not useful. What should we do with them? Can we identify them here? I can merge some of the smaller ones, but some of the list articles are quite large and I wouldn't know where to start. I should mention that User:Immunize is still generating these lists, such as List of causes of fatigue and List of causes of emesis. PDCook (talk) 23:48, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

It is very difficult to compile thorough differential diagnosis lists. The best ones tend to be found in review articles and texts written by expert practitioners. I just did a quick review of DiagnosisPro and tested several problems with which i have some expertise: growth failure, hypoglycemia in infancy, adrenal failure, and ambiguous genitalia. It failed even to mention some major causes in a routine differential for each of the problems, leaving out whole categories of disease. I would not even recommend it as a starting point for a medical student. We should not be linking anything to it.

Despite the obvious effort put into them, User:Immunize's lists are similarly challenged. The two I checked are so incomplete as to be fairly useless. The two I just looked at (fatigue and emesis) feature exotic problems rarely seen for the last 25 years (e.g. Reye syndrome) while missing common ones (e.g. eating disorders). Anyone with expertise can look at those lists and immediately think of several important conditions omitted, while anyone without expertise has no way to guess how incomplete the lists are. Without some system for trying to achieve at least completeness of the major causes, it's hard to imagine who might benefit from partial lists. There is no way to say this without seeming to deprecate user:Immunize's efforts, but I agree with JFW that without article context and interpretive guidance, the lists themselves have little value here. alteripse (talk) 21:14, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Many of diagnosis pro's differentials have over 1000 items listed as differentials. I think this only just emphasis the difficult of generating such lists. The people who started diagnosis pro are not pediatricians so some of the missed content is understandable. Does anyone have a better source of differentials? I think we should link to something and not attempt to generate them here.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:55, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

The DiagnosisPro lists for ambiguous genitalia, hypoglycemia in infancy, and growth failure are not adult problems are they? They are so bad I would reject them from an intern: they look left over from 1975, and I promise all three differential diagnosis lists have changed immensely from that decade. I only looked at 4 topics but all were poor-- can you point me to any of their lists that actually include all major (not rare) diagnoses? alteripse (talk) 02:52, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Limp [3] list all the major causes. As does testicular pain [4]. Abdominal pain is also fairly complete. [5] If you have in mind a better site I would be for it. I have no specific attachment to this one.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:24, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

That's exactly the point, James. If Alteripse can find pages that are rubbish, and you can find pages that "ain't bad" there is a serious inconsistency in the quality of DiagnosisPro which badly affects its reliability. The "about" page states that physicians update it from high-quality sources, but the process is vague, the criteria are undefined, the physicians are anonymous (another page lists three)... Why should we rely on this if we can use textbooks (Harrison's, for instance), peer-reviewed secondary sources, and such? JFW | T@lk 09:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I am only suggested that sometimes we add a link within the template:infobox symptom when the differential provided is good. I am not suggesting we use this as a reference to generate lists of differentials. I do not think such lists are a good idea here on Wikipedia. BTW if you email them they will update the list with suggestion / sources provided.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:41, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

The problem with linking to Harrison's is that most people do not have easy access.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:04, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps if we believe a given page at this website to be reasonably complete, then it could be listed as a plain old External link in an appropriate article. This avoids institutionalizing any single website as "the" source in a template; it would be simple to exclude specific pages identified as inadequate; it would be easy to switch to a different website if a better one were found. Furthermore, it's a well-understood, low-overhead and anti-bureaucratic process. Perhaps if we do this for a while, we'll be able to figure out what might be best in the long-term. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:35, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Update - I have listed the "diarrhoea" and "fever" lists for AFD. If these both lead to deletion decisions then we have a precedent for eliminating the others. Can I remind Immunize to stick carefully to WP:MEDMOS and WP:MEDRS? You are free to observe the process by which experienced editors produce reliable medical content, and emulate their approaches. JFW | T@lk 08:46, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Would a move of my lists to the article incubator for improvement be reasonable? Immunize (talk) 20:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I think that would be fair. If each of the different conditions were expanded into a short summary discussing how frequently it causes said symptom / sign and than listed in most common to least common I would support its integration into the main article / continued existence of the list.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

File:Pyogenic granuloma 1.jpg

Do you think this images has a chance to become a featured photo? I have never tried for a featured photo nomination? ---kilbad (talk) 03:29, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, for what it's worth, I think this image is better than the one in "Fitzpatrick's Color Atlas & Synopsis of Clinical Dermatology" (see [6]), so I have nominated it at Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Pyogenic granuloma 1.jpg. Perhaps some of you could share your thoughts regarding this image at that review? ---kilbad (talk) 03:42, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I think you might have some troubles due to the haziness in the background. Not sure if it could be cropped better?Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:58, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

RfC: Proposed new section "Alternative medicine as mainstream"

Please comment and help create a consensus version at Talk:Alternative_medicine#RfC:_Proposed_new_section_.22Alternative_medicine_as_mainstream.22. Thanks. -- Brangifer (talk) 15:09, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

AllergoOncology

Can someone who may have some knowledge in the area please take a look at AllergoOncology something about it strikes me as being very shady and fringe like. I could be totally wrong though. Ridernyc (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree, it does seem to be a fringe theory. I myself have not heard of it, so I cannot completely discredit the article, but it is unreferenced, and unless some reliable references are added soon I may nominate it for deletion. Immunize (talk) 20:20, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, the user who created it, Ejense32, made only 1 edit-creating the page in question, which makes me question the articles accuracy even more. Best wishes. Immunize (talk) 20:25, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

A scholar search pulls up a review article Jensen-Jarolim E, Achatz G, Turner MC; et al. (2008). "AllergoOncology: the role of IgE-mediated allergy in cancer". Allergy. 63 (10): 1255–66. doi:10.1111/j.1398-9995.2008.01768.x. PMID 18671772. {{cite journal}}: Explicit use of et al. in: |author= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

It unfortunately looks plagiarized [7] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:27, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I have nominated it for deletion for that reason. Immunize (talk) 20:43, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I have reworded the one line so it is no longer plagiarism. Would someone remove the tag?Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:45, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

A single source is really not sufficient for notability. It doesn't even sound like they've done any human testing yet. This should probably be merged into a larger article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:11, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

That's probably right, although New International Field Of Research Established - Allergooncology, which was added as an external link on 11 May 2008,[8] shows it's received some external coverage, which helps with WP:Notability. Anyway, I've undone Doc J's edit as I think the previous version was more informative. That version is not a copyvio, since both Definition of Verrucous carcinoma and What is Immune mediated inflammatory diseases are dated later than the wording in Wikipedia. Those sites contain unattributed plagiarism of the Wikipedia article. I've declined the speedy. --RexxS (talk) 21:22, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that Rexx. We need to persecute people who plagiarism Wikipedia without attribution grr. :-) Will I agree it notability is questionable and agree it should be merged, maybe into Oncology? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 21:24, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I've created a section at Talk:Oncology#AllergoOncology merge discussion for discussion of the proposed merge. --RexxS (talk) 21:56, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

RfC: Context of NSF statement about belief in ghosts

Announcing an RfC at Talk:Ghost#RfC:_Context_of_NSF_statement_about_belief_in_ghosts. The questions being discussed are:

1. Whether the National Science Foundation is a reliable source for stating that "belief in ghosts and spirits" are "pseudoscientific beliefs".

2. Whether their expressions can be considered to represent the current scientific consensus (in the USA) on that subject.

See you there! -- Brangifer (talk) 17:06, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Creating a category redirect

I am redirecting Category:Infections of the skin and subcutaneous tissue to Category:Infection-related cutaneous conditions, but I want to do so such that the Category:Infections of the skin and subcutaneous tissue is not itself categorized. Restated, when I look at the Category:Infection-related cutaneous conditions, I do not want want "Infections of the skin and subcutaneous tissue" listed. Any ideas? ---kilbad (talk) 17:29, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Why do you want to do this? WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:10, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Stem cell

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. You are being notified as this project's banner is on the article talk page. I have found some serious concerns which you can see at Talk:Stem cell/GA1. The article appears to contain many copyright violations. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are addressed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:14, 27 February 2010 (UTC) Jezhotwells (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Revise some recent edits?

Hey guys. I was looking at the Nuss procedure article and noticed many changes since my last edit, not backed up with any references for the most part. I'm still behind in school and can't comb through it anytime soon. If someone can get to it before me, would you please check [9] and remove the non-referenced text. If not, I should be able to get at it next month. Thanks, 174.102.83.126 (talk) (§hep (logged out) 01:44, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Prion

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. You are being notified as this project's banner is on the article talk page. I have found some concerns which you can see at Talk:Prion/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Google health

Is Google health an reliable source? I am just wondering as I have cited google health in a number of my lists, and in the event that google health is not reliable, I may have to change the sources of some of my additions. Immunize (talk) 23:36, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

No, I would not consider Google Health a reliable source for the purposes of this project. It is not peer-reviewed as far as I know, and does not represent the views of any official body. -- Scray (talk) 23:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

From the Google Health FAQ:

4. Is Google Health a new way to search for health information?

Not really. Google Health is mostly about helping you collect, store, manage, and share your medical records and health information. There is a search box at the top of every page in Google Health, and if you enter a search query there, you go to the Google.com search results page that you are used to. There is also useful health information built into Google Health, but Google Health is not a new health-specific search engine.

Sounds like Google Health does not consider itself a definitive source of health information. -- Scray (talk) 23:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

linking dermpedia

This user 70.19.167.177 (talk · contribs) is linking dermpedia [10] to a lot of pages. It is a similar site to Wikipedia. Anyway to roll all of them back?Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:44, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Manually, dear James, manually. JFW | T@lk 08:17, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

MRI contrast agent

Has not found by myself, dunno where else to ask: are there any contraindications for undergoing MRI\CT with contrast for a person suspected of having a mitochondrial disorder? Say, MELAS - is it O.K. to have MELAS and go to a MRI scan with contrast agent, wouldnt it cause any complications?--CopperKettle 16:33, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Lexi drugs does not mention anything for gadolinium only "Seizure disorder: Use with caution in patients with a history of seizure disorder; may lower seizure threshold. Injectable anticonvulsant agents should be readily available. Sickle cell anemia: In in vitro studies, deoxygenated sickle erythrocytes align perpendicular to a magnetic field; the enhancement of magnetic moment by contrast agents may potentiate this alignment possibly resulting in vaso-occlusive complications in vivo. Use in patients with sickle cell anemia or other hemoglobinopathies has not been studied." --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:01, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

At the risk of answering what sounds like a request for medical advice, I will say that those of us who sometimes investigate these disorders in children do not consider a possible diagnosis of a mitochondrial disorder a contraindication to an MRI. Because so many of them initially present with vague and nonspecific developmental and/or neuromuscular complaints, I suspect the majority of people with these disorders have had MRIs. alteripse (talk) 01:23, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Alteripse and James! --CopperKettle 14:17, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Notability of a medical professional

I PRODed the Scott Rasgon (chief of nephrology at Kaiser Permanente in Los Angeles) article some time ago. It was dePRODed, rewritten somewhat, and two of Dr. Rasgon's papers were added (he is 1st author on a paper cited 50 or so times, and 5th author on a paper cited 150 or so times). However, I can't find any reliable sources that would generally satisfy WP:BIO. Do folks think he passes WP:ACADEMIC with his papers? I'm more familiar with applying ACADEMIC to professors rather than practicing physicians. Thanks, PDCook (talk) 21:31, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Becoming very difficult. We've had the "professor test", but I can name numerous professors (especially in the USA, where large numbers of clinicians hold assistant professorships) who have no claim to fame while people relatively low in the hierarchy may have made significant contributions in some way or another. In the case of Dr Rasgon, the article does not indicate why he would stand out from any other clinician in this position, and I have taken the liberty of putting the article up for AFD. JFW | T@lk 22:43, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. PDCook (talk) 23:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Postpartum depression

I have placed a request for expert attention to the above article, and am alerting the associated Wikiprojects for Psychology and Medicine. A reader has raised a serious concern about the article and I think it would be very useful to have someone with expertise in the area improve its quality. Any help much appreciated.

I also think the article's current B-class rating by this project is questionable. There are whole sections totally without references, which I don't believe satisifies this B-class criterion: "The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited." I also removed some stupid, week-old vandalism from the article - it could use more eyes. Gonzonoir (talk) 09:33, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I deleted some content sourced to animal studies which appeared to not even be about post partum depression but rather infanticide and child abandonment or neglect in animals, such as ducks. It was a violation of, WP:NOR, WP:SYN and WP:MEDRS. It was probably a newbie editor with not much experience in building an encyclopedia who added this content. Still needs more work done. I have also downgraded the article to a C class article.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 13:18, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks very much Literaturegeek - good to see somebody tackling this so quickly. Gonzonoir (talk) 13:41, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Stretch Reflex section

In the article, it says that Function of this reflex is to maintain a constant length. But in Improvement in Linearity and Regulation of Stiffness That Results from Actions of Stretch Reflex, Nichols and Houk, 1976 Journal of Neurophysiology, they shows that the purpose of stretch reflex is not to maintain constant length but instead constant stiffness. --Ml2000id (talk) 06:25, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Do you have anything newer? --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 07:08, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Move request: {{PMCID}} → {{PMC}}

See Template talk:PMCID for details. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Scientific review needed

cystic fibrosis

Hi, Hope you are all doing fine, I want somebody to review this diagram that I created relating to cystic fibrosis and check of I did any mistakes, so I can correct them, thank you all MaenK.A._Talk 13:05, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Nice. I've made some suggestions on the Talk page for the image. -- Scray (talk) 14:36, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, and I ve made the changes you recommended  Done MaenK.A._Talk 15:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Any other suggestions ?? MaenK.A._Talk 15:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Note that the rest of this discussion is here MaenK.A._Talk 14:21, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

You should move your talk to commons:File talk:Cystic fibrosis manifestations.png, at the moment it is placed at File_talk:Cystic_fibrosis_manifistations.png on en.wikipedia, thats the wrong project and, after I followed a request to rename the file, the wrong filename. --Martin H. (talk) 16:41, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I just moved the Talk page to the right name on the en.WP project. Not sure how to move between projects - will try. -- Scray (talk) 17:09, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Shall I copy past it?? then delete the original page??, By the way thank you both for the help MaenK.A._Talk 17:13, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. That would certainly lose the page History, and might cause other trouble - I just don't know (even after reading help on Moves both on en.wikipedia and the Help at Commons). If you copy/paste, it would be best to redirect the en.wikipedia Talk page to the one on Commons, otherwise it's possible (likely) that parallel discussions will occur on different projects. My hope is that someone more experienced than I will comment. -- Scray (talk) 18:27, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

One way to get help would be to use the RMassist template described here. If they can't do it, they'll probably tell you how. I'll let you take the lead, but if you prefer I do it I'm happy to do so. -- Scray (talk) 18:32, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Go ahead and please do it MaenK.A._Talk 18:40, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Happy to - request made here. -- Scray (talk) 18:51, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Great, thank you MaenK.A._Talk 19:00, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Image request

Xiphoid process

There's a request for a simple image at Talk:Xiphoid_process#Picture. The page has mostly close-up images, and some readers clicking through from another page seem uncertain about what general part of the body this small bone is in. A human chest with an arrow has been suggested. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:56, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Its done, Here is the PNG file, and An SVG version, feel free to add them to the article, and If you have any suggestions I ll Be happy to help MaenK.A._Talk 22:17, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

 Done Thanks. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:13, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

New Auscultogram diagrams

Auscultogram from normal and abnormal heart sounds

Hi, I created this diagram, I wanna ask if this is useful??, If it is I will create a separate diagram for each murmur comparing it to normal MaenK.A._Talk 11:01, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Any Ideas ?? MaenK.A._Talk 14:42, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

It's attractive visually and potentially very instructive, but I'm not sure about the science behind it. You list the Netter image as a source, but that's not specifically supportive. Imagine this were text - you'd need to be able to support each sentence. Do you have sources that would support the contours and timings shown in your drawing? For what location on the precordium are these profiles representative? Also, there is no indication of pitch, and it might help to have a timing indication, e.g. an ECG lead, or perhaps a few pressure curves. The latter would help provide a mechanistic basis for the timing of the various murmurs. Ultimately, it really needs sources that specifically validate the content (just like text), otherwise it's more art than science. -- Scray (talk) 16:05, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually these diagrams was based on the macleod's book of clinical examination, so how would you suggest i refer to it??, and about the locations I can add them to the diagram easily, its a good idea, but I missed it, I think separating this diagram into individual murmur diagrams would be better if we want to add pressure diagrams or timing, Or shall we add them to the same Image??

MaenK.A._Talk 16:46, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

By the way, I totally agree with you that it should be referenced, and I personally believe that unreferenced statements in medical articles are meaningless, and I always add referenced statements check the complications of hypertension article. I am just asking about how we should add theses references MaenK.A._Talk 18:26, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Also, the filename has two periods just prior to the file extension (i.e. "hearts..png"). I was tempted to move my comments to the Talk page for the image on Commons, since that's where it belongs, but I realized that if the file naming isn't fixed first, then creation of the Talk page will result in a need for two file renamings instead of one. -- Scray (talk) 16:12, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the file name mistake, I asked for the rename it will become Phonocardiograms from normal and abnormal heart sounds.png MaenK.A._Talk 16:46, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome

Just noticed that the above page was recently recreated. Seems like someone from WP:MED should probably take a look. Yilloslime ^T_C 22:46, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that it is notable enough for an article of its own. I am wondering why it is not merged into Long-term_effects_of_cannabis?--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 23:45, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Agree with LG it should be merged.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:13, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Addition of __@Home references to articles

I would like to make sure that what I'm doing represents community consensus, because I've already reverted a couple of times on a couple of pages. Currently, an editor at 75.85.14.10x is adding references to a grid project to Dengue fever [11] [12], Muscular dystrophy [13], and proposing same at Talk:AIDS [14] [15]. While these grid projects are laudable, the additions are not encyclopedic. I've tried to make it clear that I mean no disrespect to the grid project but rather have to respect the fact that WP is not a place to promote any cause. If others disagree with my actions, I'm listening. If you agree, then I'd appreciate it if others would weigh in so this doesn't come off as my own personal vendetta. My hope is there might even be a guideline specifically related to these grid projects, because this comes up from time to time. -- Scray (talk) 13:23, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I've done my best at Talk:AIDS to point the IP editor to the World Community Grid article, and to explain how we use sources in medical-related articles. I agree with your assessment and will keep the other two articles on my watchlist for a while. --RexxS (talk) 14:09, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Significant on its own page but not on pages pertaining to diseases.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:12, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Craniosacral therapy

The article regarding the pseudoscientific practice of craniosacral therapy needs attention. Take this one example:

• Cranial textbooks propose that motion of the skull is possible during flexion and extension because the sutures are mobile. The sphenobasilar synchondrosis (SBS) - the junction between the base of the sphenoid and the occiput- is thought to fuse by the mid- to late twenties, but still retain limited mobility . An alternative theory to SBS Motion taught in craniosacral training suggests that sutures are "lines of folding", like pre-folded marks on cardboard, rather than necessarily being fully open.

This uses a dubious source admittedly "Self-published online, September 2005. http://www.hummingbird-one.co.uk/pdf/sbs_simplified.pdf"

I think the whole article needs to be checked for violations of MEDRS. -- Brangifer (talk) 18:51, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is alt med. Describing what they think is okay. We just need to also describe what the rest of the world thinks.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:11, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and it has to use RS. -- Brangifer (talk) 03:25, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Agree.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:39, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Terri Schiavo case

I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. You are being notified as this project's banner is on the article talk page. I have found some concerns which you can see at Talk:Terri Schiavo case/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:30, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Paleolithic Diet deserves more attention

I find the Healthy diet article to be extremely biased in that it only lists recommendations from the World Health Organization and nothing else. I tried to add a section about the Paleolithic diet but my edits were reverted by a vandal. Evolutionary medicine is credible and should be given more attention than it currently is. Instead of citing special interest lobbyist-funded beauracratic government agencies we should cite other sources too.Mac520 (talk) 04:26, 8 March 2010 (UTC) Sources: http://www.paleonu.com/ http://www.marksdailyapple.com/

The "vandal" by the way would be me. The section it was added to was Healthy_diet#Dietary_recommendations. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:28, 8 March 2010 (UTC)