Talk:Ahmadiyya

Honorifics

First off, I'm deeply sorry if I offended anyone by removing the honorifics (the Peace be upon him references) associated with the prophet Muhammad (I too wish peace upon him). I just don't think it is appropriate to use these in encyclopedia entries. If I am wrong about this, please forgive me and revert the article back to its previous form. Maybe there is a way to do this in a more respectful manner while being neutral. Look at the main entry for Islam.

Member Count

"Today the community has around 200 million members in over 181 countries"

Is this number true, is there any evidence? This number implies that there are similar numbers of Ahmaddiya to the Shia, maybe even more. Imc 17:49, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Inserted figure of 10 million, quoted from http://www.adherents.com/Na/Na_16.html . 62.49.4.39 19:09, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The number of members are taken from the number of bait forms. That's the evidence. If you want to count all those bait forms for yourself contect the London Mosque

intellectual property

Ladies and Gentlemen: who "stole" from whom? I found the exact taxt 0nthe following sites:

http://www.essentialresults.com/article/Ahmaddiya

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ahmaddiya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmaddiya

Sincerely yours, Karl Schmitt

Kalima Sahadat

"Main-Stream Muslims":

According to a consensus of Clerics / Scholars belonging to The Islamic Republic of Pakistan, to be considered a Muslim you need to declare Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as an Apostate.Nazli 15:23, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

• It did not until 1974!!! Purely motivated by political ambitions of the so called Religious parties. An indication of the prevailing extremism at the time than anything else. An analogy is with the concept of militant Jihad. Up until 9/11 militant Jihad was everywhere inline with the "consensus" of Mullahs. Now many of the same Mullahs can not stop ranting how peaceful and tolerant Islam is - ironically also accusing Ahmadis of being reluctant towards militancy at the same time etc. etc. Bottom line: do not confuse politically motivated edicts issued in a particular time with established believes. This is no justice to Islam and in-fact is giving it a bad name in terms of the tolerant religion that it really is.

Here is what one has to sign to be considers a Mulsim in Paksitan:

"I am a Muslim and believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) the last of the prophets. I do not recognize any person who claims to be a prophet in any sense of the word or of any description what so ever after Muhammad (peace be upon him) or recognise such claimant as prophet or religious reformer as a Muslim. I consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani to be an imposter nabi and also consider his followers, whether belonging to the Lahori or Qadiani group, to be non-Muslims".

Pakistani Muslims are considered "Main Stream" by the rest of the Islamic world.Nazli 08:05, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

• Not meaning that the rest of the 1 billion or so Muslims agree with everything they do in Pakistan. Because if that were so Ahmadis would be banned everywhere by law etc. etc. Are Shias considered "main stream" by Sunnis? If yes why don't Sunnis agree with all Shia beliefs? If not then why don't Sunnis force Shias to Sunni believes? Do not confuse "mainstream" with agreement or the fact that not being “mainstream” takes away anyone’s rights to consider themselves what they want. You are taking a very selective view regarding Ahmadis.

• Fact is Pakistan isn't a good example of anything these days and many Pakistanis themselves are ashamed of being Pakistanis. I think we should avoid considering Pakistan a standard of anything let alone a serious item like religion and Islam for that matter. Every 4-5 weeks a church, temple of Shia mosque or person is attached in Pakistan. If we take the “mainstream” example then all Muslims everywhere should be doing that. Please do not confuse these extremist acts against anyone as “mainstream” Islamic views - even though there is considerable support for these in current Pakistani society. None of these are according to the spirit of Islam.

Ahmadiyya Muslim Community:

It is a historical fact that Mian Mahmud Ahmed, the son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, soon after the father's death declared non-believers in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed's prophethood to be out side the fold of Islam. This was one of the reasons resulting in the split in the movement.Nazli 09:01, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

Mirza Basheer-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad [Mian Mahmud Ahmad], son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and the editor of a magazine Tash-heezul Azhan wrote and published an article in April 1911, under the title, "Muslim is he who accepts all the Mamurs (those appointed by Allah)." In this article he categorically stated that all Muslims who do not believe in Mirza Ghlam Ahmad's cliam were our side the fold of Islam. Following is a translation from the article:

" ... so not only that person who does not call the Promised Messiah a 'kafir' but does not accept his claim to be "Promised Messiah", has been declared a 'kafir', but even that person also, who secretly considers the Promised Messiah as true in his claims, and even does not openly deny it but is reluctant to give a pledge (Baiat) has been shown as a kafir." (Tash-heezul Azhan - April 1911, p. 141). Nazli 04:36, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

The Ahmadiyaa movement does not claim Non-Ahmadis are Non-Muslim please see:

http://www2.alislam.org/askislam/mp3/19840816_05.mp3

The explaination given in the above audio clip by Mirza Tahir Ahmad for members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community calling other Muslims "Kafirs" hinges on attributing a *unique* meaning to this term. According to him this term when used for other muslims refers to their being Kafirs only in the context of their non-belief in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. However Mirza Basheer-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad did not make any such distiction in his original statement when he declared main stream Muslims Kafirs. Nazli 17:55, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Please allow the Ahmadi community to speak for themselves. The above link shows that the Ahmadiyya Community does believe Muslims to be Kafir in the sense of unbelievers and more importantly they are not non-Muslim. If you read any Ahmadi literature (www.alislam.org) you will see that Non-Ahmadis are referred to as Non-Ahmadi Muslims. Ahmadis believe in the fataw given by Allah in which it is not in any man's authority to declare someone non-Muslim, many Sunnis choose to follow the Fatwa of the 1974 Muslim league instead.

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is welcome to speak for themselves, not at the expense of sacrificing a neutral point of view. The use of the term "Kafir" when referring to a certain sect is of great concern and interest to both main-stream muslims as well as Ahmadis. Hence it would be unfair not refer to its usage by Mirza Basheer-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad. Nazli 09:07, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

Look here. I am an Ahmadi, born and raised and we were taught to believe that NO ONE can call another person a kafir. We do call people NON-AHMADI because, if someone is Sunni or Shia then their beliefs are different to ours, but we would NEVER, EVER say that they are non-Muslims. Many decent Sunni and Shia people would obviously say that we are not Sunni or Shia, but would still consider us Muslim. Sadly, many others believe that they nauzobilla have the right to say that we are NON-MUSLIM. Anyway, I'm sick of this inaccurate propoganda about us. Why don't you ask Ahmadis what we believe. Oh no, I forget, many of your leaders tell you not to speak to us in case we infect you with our hertecism. As an Ahmadi I am open to listening to other points of view, I have Sunni friends, Shia Friends, Ismaili friends as well as friends who are of other religions. I do not feel threatened that by talking to them my religion will become somehow tainted - so why are so many other Muslims convinced that by talking to us they will lose their religion - is their religion really so weak?

Mirza Basheer-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad [Mian Mahmud Ahmad], son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and the editor of a magazine Tash-heezul Azhan wrote and published an article in April 1911, under the title, "Muslim is he who accepts all the Mamurs (those appointed by Allah)." In this article he categorically stated that all Muslims who do not believe in Mirza Ghlam Ahmad's cliam were our side the fold of Islam. Following is a translation from the article:

" ... so not only that person who does not call the Promised Messiah a 'kafir' but does not accept his claim to be "Promised Messiah", has been declared a 'kafir', but even that person also, who secretly considers the Promised Messiah as true in his claims, and even does not openly deny it but is reluctant to give a pledge (Baiat) has been shown as a kafir." (Tash-heezul Azhan - April 1911, p. 141).Nazli 13:25, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Qur'an 49:15

Translation of Qur'an 49:15:

By YUSUFALI: "Only those are Believers who have believed in Allah and His Messenger, and have never since doubted, but have striven with their belongings and their persons in the Cause of Allah: Such are the sincere ones."

By PICKTHAL: "The (true) believers are those only who believe in Allah and His messenger and afterward doubt not, but strive with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah. Such are the sincere"

This verse may serve as a basis for defining a Muslim. However different sects may want to interpret the term "messenger" differently. Also some may want to add the other conditions mentioned in the verse to the definition in addition to the traditional Kalima Shadat.

The issue here however is not the interpretation of 49:15, but rather, What is the official stand of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. Does it consider people who call themselves Muslims and profess the traditional Kalima Shahdat BUT do not believe in the prophet hood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed and consider him to be an apostate, to be within the fold of Islam? Nazli 04:41, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

Reason for split was not what Nazli cites,no Ahmadi Authority has officialy declared any body 'non muslim'. In fact never before 1974 any group or sect has been declared out of pail of Islam. But one should be aware of difference between 'Kafir' and 'Non-Muslim'. it had been common practice between different sects to call each other 'Kaffirs' meaning non believer. In fact it will not be far from fact to say that every sect of the '72' has been called kafir by another sect. It is unique in the 1400 year history of Islam that a government used its highest 'democratic' institution i.e National assembly (House of Commons) to deny the basic right of religious freedom to a section of its population and then denied access to the proceedings by putting a ban on the publication by any party. As for who is considerd muslim by Ahmadis they follow Prophet Muhammads injunction i.e who ever calls himself a muslim is a muslim. What is most important for an Ahmadi is to be muslim in the sight of Allah.

As for the split(1914Ad) it was because a group of people in the community maintained that a committee of people will act as the supreme authority of the community.This committee would be  called 'Anjuman Ahmadiyya'.One can look back at the history of both communities and where they stand today to see who was right in 1914.

Mirza Basheer-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad [Mian Mahmud Ahmad], son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and the editor of a magazine Tash-heezul Azhan wrote and published an article in April 1911, under the title, "Muslim is he who accepts all the Mamurs (those appointed by Allah)." In this article he categorically stated that all Muslims who do not believe in Mirza Ghlam Ahmad's cliam were our side the fold of Islam. Following is a translation from the article:

" ... so not only that person who does not call the Promised Messiah a 'kafir' but does not accept his claim to be "Promised Messiah", has been declared a 'kafir', but even that person also, who secretly considers the Promised Messiah as true in his claims, and even does not openly deny it but is reluctant to give a pledge (Baiat) has been shown as a kafir." (Tash-heezul Azhan - April 1911, p. 141).

Nazli 04:36, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

The Ahmadiyaa movement does not claim Non-Ahmadis are Non-Muslim please see:

http://www2.alislam.org/askislam/mp3/19840816_05.mp3

commnet in article

Someone posted this comment in the article, which I'm moving here in case anyone can find a way to put it into the article properly. -Willmcw 20:46, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC)

REF. to table,under second coming of Jesus one should note that it was fore told by Mohammad himself and that he will be a prophet. The Qadiani group believes that Jesus son of Mary died a natural death in Sirinagar where he migrated after God saved him from death on the cross. Under Kalima Shahadat for main stream islamic belief, denouncing Mirza's claim, only required in Pakistan and nowhere else. Qadianis believe any one who calls himself a Mulim is a Muslim.

Maulvi Mohammad Ali believed Ahmad as prophet of God

There are several evidences that Maulvi Mohammad Ali believed him as prophet of God for example “Maulvi Muhammad Ali’s Testimony in the Law Court” Witness of Maulvi Mohammad Ali in a law-court:

1. "In regard to a man who claims to be a Nabi (Prophet), where a man denies this claim, he becomes, thereby a `Kazzab '. The Mirza Sahib claims he is a Prophet." 2. "The Mirza Sahib, in many of his works, puts forth this claim which is to the effect that he is a Prophet from God, though he is not the bearer of a new Sharia. Where a man denies a claim of this kind, he becomes, thereby, a `Kazzab '." (File of the law-suit, page 362)

This witness of Maulvi Mohammad Ali in a law-court, under solemn oath.

The Review of Religions, Maulvi Mohammad Ali had a controversy, in writing, with Khawaja Ghulamussaqalain:

1. "Four principles have been laid down by Khawaja Ghulamussaqalain, from his own mind, and he desires to assess the position of Hazarat Mirza Sahib on the basis of principles hammered out by himself. In forging these principles as a valid criterion, he has made a great and a very serious error." (Review of Religions, Vol. 1V, page 395)

2. "I am surprised to find that when they are raising objections, the Christians, and other opponents of the Ahmadiyya Movement, display a remarkable talent for making subtle distinctions; but on the other hand, they fail to perceive an all too potent a point as to what is the distinctive feature which must be found in a man who claims to be a Prophet from God." (Review of Religions, Vol. IV, page 464)

3. "Khawaja Ghulamussaqalain has sought to make four points in rejecting the meaning of my interpretation of the Quranic verse: a. Shaitan swore by the grandeur and glory of the Lord God that he would mislead all. In this Shaitan shows himself as having been successful. b. The people of the Pharaoh used to kill their (of Bani Israel) male children. c. Masih was nailed to the cross. d. The four Khalifas, and the grandchildren of the Holy Prophet Mohammad, five out of six, were slain by the enemy. The point at issue was: what basis has the Quran laid down for knowing a true claimant of Prophethood from another who is false in this claim. Now Khawaja Ghulamussaqalain himself would be highly welcome to explain how he applies his principles validly except in the third point where Jesus Christ comes into the picture, and let us know who and where are the claimants of Prophethood, relevant to the matter under discussion and dispute. Is Shaitan one of the claimants? Were the children of Israel claimants of Nabuwwat? Were the four Khalifas and the sibtain such claimants? If not then where lies the relevancy of his principles to the matter under dispute?" (Review of Religions, Vol. V. page 432)

Now in this discussion Maulvi Mohammad Ali did not bring in the Ahmad as Mohaddath ; nor in the capacity of a Mojaddid . He brought the Ahmad as a Nabi, a Prophet. He bracketed the Ahmad with Jesus, who was a Prophet; beyond that, the three Khalifas, and the Sibtain were not claimants to Nabuwwat (Prophethood) therefore, reference to them was irrelevant. The point here is that Maulvi Mohammad Ali is presenting the Ahmad in his capacity of a Nabi (a prophet). At the time under reference here, Maulvi Mohammad Ali interpreted theSura Fatiha in the light of another Quranic verse "Who so ever rendered obedience to Allah, and His Messenger, indeed these are the people on whom Allah has showered His blessings. in their capacity as Prophets, Siddiqeen, Shohada and Salihin saying: We have here been ordered to offer this prayer, in its broadest base. The acceptance of this prayer is a foregone conclusion, no matter how an opponent understood, and applied it, and its implications. In any case we stand on the point that Allah can raise a Prophet whenever and where ever in His wisdom He might choose to do so. Also He can confer the rank of Siddiq, Shaheed and Salih on whomsoever He likes. The only thing needed was a sincere supplicant." (Address by Maulvi Mohammad Ali, as reproduced in the AI-Hakam, July 18, 1908, page 6)

Maulana Mohammad Ali's personal beliefs regarding the the status of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad are clearly explained in his book "The Split in the Ahmadiyya Movement", available online at:

http://www.aaiil.org/text/books/mali/splitahmadiyyamovement/splitahmadiyyamovement.shtml

On reading this book it is clear that at no point in his life did Maulana Mohammad Ali ascribe the terms "nabi" and "rasool" to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in the manner used for the previous prophets. Maulana Mohammad Ali concurs with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's personal belief that these terms when applied to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad have to be considered allegorically. Nazli 03:30, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

“he is a Prophet from God” (Maulvi Mohammad Ali)

Nazli: (please give references to support your assertion) Mubasher: Here are the references: (Maulvi Mohammad Ali “he is a Prophet from God” (File of the law-suit, page 362), and in Review of Religions, Vol. IV, page 464), Review of Religions, Vol. V. page 432), AI-Hakam, July 18, 1908, page 6)

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's personal views regarding his alleged claim to "Prophet Hood"

A few examples of what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad himself had to say regarding his alleged claim to prophet hood:

• • "Let it be clear to them that I also curse the person who claims prophethood. I hold that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is His Messenger, and I believe in the finality of prophethood of the Holy Prophet. So, as there is no claim of prophethood on my part either, only that of being a wali (saint) and mujaddid ..."

(Majmu`a Ishtiharat, old edition, vol. iii, p. 224. 1986 edition, vol. 2, pp. 297-298)

• • "I have heard that some leading Ulama of this city Delhi are giving publicity to the allegation against me that I lay claim to prophethood. ... I respectfully state to all these gentlemen that these allegations are an entire fabrication. I do not make a claim to prophethood. ... After the Holy Prophet Muhammad, I consider anyone who claims prophethood and messengership to be a liar and unbeliever."

(Statement issued in Delhi, 2 October 1891. Majmu`a Ishtiharat, 1986 edition, vol. 1, pp. 230-231)

• • "Other allegations made against me are that 'this man denies the Lailat al-Qadr and miracles and the Mi`raj, and further that he makes a claim to prophethood and denies the finality of prophethood.'

"All these allegations are entirely untrue and false. ... Now I make a clear and plain affirmation of the following matters before Muslims in this house of God: I believe in the finality of prophethood of the Khatam al-anbiya, may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him, and I consider the person who denies the finality of prophethood as being without faith and outside the pale of Islam. (Speech in Delhi Central mosque, 23 October 1891. Majmu`a Ishtiharat, 1986 edition, vol. 1, p. 255)

• • "Question: In the booklet Fath-i Islam you have made a claim to prophethood.

"Answer: There is no claim of prophethood. On the contrary, the claim is of sainthood (muhaddasiyyat) which has been advanced by the command of God. (Izala Auham, pp. 421-422, Ruhani Khaza'in, vol. 3, p. 320)

• • "I believe also that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is the best of messengers and the Khatam an-nabiyyin, and those people have fabricated a lie against me who say that this man claims to be a prophet."

(Hamamat al-Bushra, p. 8. Ruhani Khaza'in, vol. 7, p. 184)

• • "One of the objections of those who call me kafir is that they say: This man claims prophethood and says I am one of the prophets. The answer is that you should know, O brother, that I have not claimed prophethood, nor have I said to them that I am a prophet. But they were hasty and made a mistake in understanding my words ... It does not befit me that I should claim prophethood and leave Islam and become an unbeliever ... How could I claim prophethood when I am a Muslim?"

(Hamamat al-Bushra, p. 79. Ruhani Khaza'in, vol. 7, pp. 296-297)

Nazli 18:55, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's personal views regarding the finality of Prophet Hood

• • "The Holy Prophet had repeatedly said that no prophet would come after him, and the hadith `There is no prophet after me' was so well-known that no one had any doubt about its authenticity. And the Holy Quran, every word of which is binding, in its verse `he is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin', confirmed that prophethood has in fact ended with our Holy Prophet. Then how could it be possible that any prophet should come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad, according to the real meaning of prophethood? This would have destroyed the entire fabric of Islam."

(Kitab al-Barriyya, p. 184, footnote. Ruhani Khaza'in, vol. 13, pp. 217-218)

• • "The Holy Quran does not permit the coming of any messenger (rasul) after the Khatam an-nabiyyin, whether a new one or an old one."

(Izala Auham, p. 761. Ruhani Khaza'in, vol. 3, p. 511)

• • " `Muhammad ... is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin.' Do you not know that the Merciful Lord has declared our Holy Prophet to be the Khatam al-anbiya unconditionally, and our Holy Prophet has explained this in his words: `There is no prophet after me', which is a clear explanation for the seekers of truth."

(Hamamat al-Bushra, p. 81-82. Ruhani Khaza'in, vol. 7, p. 200)

• • "In brief, God by naming the Holy Prophet as Khatam an-nabiyyin in the Quran, and the Holy Prophet himself by saying `There is no prophet after me' in Hadith, had settled the matter that no prophet can come after the Holy Prophet, in terms of the real meaning of prophethood."

(Kitab al-Barriyya, p. 185, footnote. Ruhani Khaza'in, vol. 13, p. 218)

Nazli 18:57, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

I have brought or introduced no new Law, and have never denied to be called a prophet (Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani)

Whenever and wherever I have refused to be called a Prophet or Messenger it is only in the sense that having been spiritually benefited by my Great and Noble Master and having been able to acquire his name, I have been endowed with the knowledge of the Unseen. but I repeat it again, that I have brought or introduced no new Law, and have never denied to be called a prophet of this kind. Rather in this very sense God has called me by the names of Prophet and Messenger. So even now I do not deny to be called a Prophet and Messenger in this sense of the word. My saying: MAN NAISTAM RASOOL-O-NIYAA WARDA AMM KITAAB i.e., I am not a Prophet and have brought no book has no connotation other than that I am not a law-bearing prophet. Of course this should also be remembered and never be forgotten that in spite of my being called a Prophet and Messenger, God has informed me that I have not been the recipient of all these spiritual blessings and favours independently and without the mediation of anybody. No; there dwells in heaven a holy being (the Holy Prophet Muhammad) through whose spiritual patronage all this Grace of God has descended on me. It is through his mediation and after having completely merged my whole being into that of the Great Prophet and after having been known as Muhammad and Ahmad that I am a RASUL (Messenger) and NABI (Prophet), that is to say, I have been sent with a mission and have been endowed with the knowledge of the Unseen. In this way my claim to prophethood does in no way interfere with the Holy Prophet's status of KHATAM-AN-NABIYYIN (Seal of the prophets), because I have been able to acquire this name only by reflecting in my person all the excellences of the Great Prophet and by annihilating myself in his consuming love………………………… (Ek Ghalati Ka Izala (The Removal of a Misunderstanding)

Mubasher July 31, 2005

If anybody takes an exception to my being called a Prophet and a Messenger in my revelations, he is but a fool (Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani)

If anybody takes an exception to my being called a NABI (Prophet) and a RASUL (Messenger) in my revelations, he is but a fool because my prophethood and messengership do not infringe the divine seal in any way. It is quite clear that when I say that God has called me NABI (prophet) and RASUL (Messenger) and my opponents entertain the belief that Jesus Christ would come after the Holy Prophet and would be a prophet, the objection that with the advent of a Prophet after the Holy Prophet his status as Seal of the prophets is infringed, equally applies to the second coming of Jesus Christ as to mine. But my contention is that there is nothing objectionable in my being called NABI (Prophet) and RASUL (Messenger) after the Holy Prophet who was KHATAM-AN-NABIYYIN (Seal of the prophets) in the true and full sense of the word nor does this fact in any conceivable manner interfere with his status of KHATAM-AN-NABIYYIN. (Ek Ghalati Ka Izala (The Removal of a Misunderstanding)

Mubasher July 31, 2005

Door of revelation....will never be cut off, but law-bearing prophethood (Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani)

"It is our faith that the last book and last law is the Holy Quran and that thereafter till the day of judgement, there is no law-bearing prophet nor any recipient of revelation who is not a follower of the Holy Prophet, peace be on him. This door is closed till the Day of Judgment, but the door of revelation, through following the Holy Prophet, is ever open. Such revelation will never be cut off, but law-bearing prophethood, or independent prophethood, have been put an end to and will not be open till the day of judgment. He who says he is not a follower of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace be on him, and claims that he is like one who has been carried away by a fierce flood and is thrown aside and cannot recover himself till he dies." (Review of the Debate between Batalvi and Chakralvi, p.12) (Qadian, 1902); Ruhani Khazain, Vol.19].

Mubasher July 31, 2005

"I am with My messenger" (Revelation of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahamd Qadiani)

As He says [in revelation to me]: "I am with My messenger, standing by him. I put the blame on those who blame him. I shall give you that which lasts forever. For you is a rank in heaven and among those who see. For you We shall show signs and demolish what they build. And they said: Will you make in the earth one who will cause mischief in it? He said: I know what you know not. I will disgrace him who intends to disgrace you. Fear not, surely the messengers fear not when I am with them. The command of Allah has come, so hasten it not, a glad tiding which came to the prophets. O My Ahmad, you are My aim and are with Me. You are from Me like My Oneness and Singleness, and you are from Me at a point which none of the people know. You are honoured in My presence, I have chosen you for Myself. When you are angry I am angry, and whatever you love I love. Allah has preferred you over all things. All praise be to Allah Who made you the Messiah, son of Mary. He (Allah) is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned, and it is a promise ever fulfilled. Allah shall protect you from the enemies, He will attack all those who attack. This is because they disobeyed and transgressed. Is not Allah sufficient for His servant? O mountains, repeat praises (of Allah) with him, and so also birds. Allah has written down: 'I shall certainly triumph, I and My messengers'. And they, after being overcome, shall be triumphant. Allah is with those who are righteous and who do good to others. Those whobelieve, for them is advancement in truth with their Lord. A word from the Merciful Lord. And this day, you become distinct, O guilty ones!" I pray a third time: O my Gracious, Powerful Lord! O my Forgiving, Merciful God! Let only those people have graves in this place who have true faith in this Your messenger, who entertain no hypocrisy, personal ends or suspicion* within their hearts, who show faith and obedience as these ought to be shown, who have, in their hearts, sacrificed their life for You and Your path, with whom You are pleased, and whom You know to be utterly lost in Your love and to have with Your messenger a relationship of fidelity, complete respect, love along with open-hearted faith and devotion. Amen, O Lord of the worlds!

(Al-Wasiyyat (The Will)

Mubasher July 31, 2005

My Lord, had I instructed so it would have been known to You.....I am His messenger/prophet. (Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani)

My Lord, had I instructed so it would have been known to You because You are Knower of all unseen. I nevertheless told them all that You had instructed me to let them know that they should believe in God alone and that I am His messenger/prophet. I know only that much when I was with them but then when You caused me to die You were the lone Watcher over them. How could I know what they did after I left them? (Lecture Lahore)

Mubasher July 31, 2005

Article Overview

The differences between the two branches of the Ahmadi sect are often unclear. Hence this article. It also acts as a jumping point to more detailed information about the individual branches of the sect. Nazli 05:34, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Could someone who knows about this subject briefly explain the differences between the two sects in this article? --Yodakii 07:59, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

"Ahmadiyya Muslim Community"

The Ahmadiyya community (not the "Ahmidiyya Muslim Community") comprises of two sub-sects: the "Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement" and the "Ahmadiyya Muslim Community". The *Ahmadiyya Muslim Commuity* is the one that claims over 200 million followers, while the number of members of the *Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement* is uncertain. Nazli 03:18, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh I see. That was not moved intentionally though. I reverted because you deleted the source link before. --a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 10:22, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Please see the history. I did not delete the source link.Nazli 10:27, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes you are right. It was user 128.228.93.106 who deleted it [1]. I must have ignored your edit because it came right before his/hers. Okay well I am glad you brought this to my attention. Thanks. a.n.o.n.y.m ^t 10:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Why is it a Stub?

Why this article is a stub and how is it an Islam related Stub and why it starts with Ahmadi muslims? PassionInfinity 07:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

You are right, it should not be a stub. The Ahmadi sect may or may not be considered "muslims" depending on you POV, however they cosider themselves to be well within the fold of Islam - the article clearly addresses the controversy. Nazli 03:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)