Talk:Chely Wright

Discography

I will be adding more detailed information about her discography in the coming days. It will mostly expand the singles section and add some official chart positions from Billboard.com.

Advertising / PoV

Check out (promotional video link removed), about how she supports the troops. -LtNOWIS 02:29, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

This isn't ad space my friend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.140.0.3 (talk) 06:27, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Deleted the pr on the upcoming release of a book for tomorrow. It reads as if she wrote the wikipage for pr. Whoever wrote this entry needs to clean it up/rewrite it -this is not an adpage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.135.217 (talk) 18:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

k.d. lang information

I see you restored my edits- which is another reason I don't trust wiki much these days. Seems like a pr machine more than an info site. Whatever. That also gave me a lower opinion of this so called coming out. Well timed publicity- thank God for KD Lang-she was the first to come out- how easily forgotten. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.135.217 (talk) 18:35, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Try reading closer. They are saying Wright is the first MAJOR country music star to come out. Major seems to be the word you keep skipping over. Lang was a fairly minor artist. Won a couple of awards, but it didn't translate into the commercial success that Wright has achieved. Regardless, the NY Post and the Boston Herald are reliable sources. You aren't. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:41, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

What !!?? You are joking. Surely. KD Lang has won 4 Grammys (one being best country vocal performance) and has many other nominations. She is about as major as they come - and one of the best singers out there. Her records have sold in the millions-topping the charts for decades. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.135.217 (talk) 18:47, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm not kidding. I already said she won a couple of awards. She won 2 as a country artist. Then everything else was as a POP artist.After her 2 country Grammy's, both of which were BEFORE she came out as a lesbian, she was never even nominated in country categories. In other words, she crossed over and abandoned country music. And Wright, who has achieved more commercial success (in terms of charting) than Lang did in country music, has never left country music. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:53, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

She came out in 1992 - and she released Even Cowgirls get the Blues in 1993....if that does not say she is still appealing to country audience after she came out then I don't know what else does. But whatever. You obviously are invested in this. I just think it does a great disservice to KD Lang.

Right......she came out in 92, she made Cowgirls in 93....and it was not a country album. It was a movie soundtrack for a film of the same name. The album only made it to #82 in the US. The record didn't even go gold, where her previous 3 went gold or platinum in the US. In that same year, she got Grammy nominations as a POP artist. 1990, last nomination in country. 1992, she came out. Never got a nomination or had success with country after that....because she switched to pop. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:08, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I honestly never had heard of Chely Wright until she came out-so good for her-now I know of her -a gay C& W singer. But not the first gay C&W singer. You may have a hard time seeing it that way-but the rest of the world has heard of KD Lang. And has paid for her records for over 20 years now (she has sold millions upon millions with best of collections). I suppose you will be telling me that Lyle Lovett is not C& W either. Now if you want to say KD Lang is not country as in Grand Ol Opry- fine- but she is the reincarnate of Patsy Cline-no matter where she plays. That is her voice. She is the quintessential country and western crooner. The audience does not change that. sigh...... Now sadly- I see this as a big marketing campaign for Wright's upcoming book and album- and I had never heard of her before...so they are hoping that people outside of C&W world will buybuybuy. As for who is correct here(not Wright)-you can use this argument 20 years after Wright has emerged from the closet. Until then- the future is too difficult to predict to dismiss KD Lang. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.135.217 (talk) 19:23, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

It really doesn't matter much if you heard of her before or not. That's an irrelevant point of discussion. This isn't about who heard of whom. I've tried to explain it, but that doesn't matter either. The reliable sources said it. Go complain to them. Niteshift36 (talk) 23:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

The question of whether k d lang is country enough, major enough, or mainstream enough for the claim that Chely Wright is the first major, mainstream country singer to be openly gay is one that is being discussed in a number of media reports. A good Wikipedia editor does not offer their own opinion on the issue and push for the article to reflect it. A good Wikipedia editor finds reliable sources that assess these claims and reports the results on the Wikipedia page. If there is consensus, then that one view is what should be reported. If there is disagreement, then that should be reported. But as this is a story that is still unfolding it is hard to say what the consensus (if any) might be. For now, the page seems accurate enough to me, crediting the "first" claim to two sources that do, in fact, make that claim. 99.192.89.172 (talk) 19:43, 3 May 2010 (UTC) (no relation to 99.190.135.217)

A good wikipedia editor uses the sources. The sources said it, not me. I simply tried to explain it here. Whether you agree or disagree with me is immaterial, 2 seperate reliable sources said it. Niteshift36 (talk) 23:44, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

There are plenty of reliable sources that describe lang as a major mainstream country music performer, and she has after all won multiple Grammy awards for country performances (the Grammy awards being the epitome of mainstream music) and has had at least one number one country song in Canada. She performs in more than one genre (so does Dolly Parton and no one would question that she's country) but she started in country. I added and cited lang's coming out in 1992. Are You The Cow Of Pain? (talk) 22:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

And I cited 2 reliable sources saying Wright was the first major artist. That's not MY opinion, it is the sources. Niteshift36 (talk) 23:44, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

The reliable sources say Wright's the first - if you find a source that disputes Wright's "firstness" then add it, but using a 2008 book to cite lang's coming out to make a point in the article is Synthesis. Hekerui (talk) 22:17, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Well hey, thanks so much for the assumption of good faith there, buddy. Of course I was adding the information only to make a point and not because it is true and verified. Factual errors can be included in reliable sources; that's why newspapers have Corrections sections. The article correctly states that two reliable sources have (incorrectly) identified Wright as the first openly gay major country music artist. It is not "synthesis" to include a reliable source which corrects that inaccurate information. Knowing a fact ("1992 is earlier than 2010") is not original research. There's been a major un-closeted country music artist since 1992 and that the source was published in 2008 has no bearing either on its reliability or its use to document lang's coming out. Are You The Cow Of Pain? (talk) 22:50, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I now used a contemporary source that discusses Wright and lang. However, I'm concerned about weight, because there is no evidence k. d. lang is relevant for an article about Wright. Hekerui (talk) 23:11, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Fun fact: You know what most people don't know. Although k.d. Lang is credited as the first openly gay country artist, Wilma Burgess was actually the first. She had a series of mid-60s country hits, including the famous tune "Misty Blue" (1966), however she is often uncredited because there is no references about it. Sorry to intrude, but I just thought I'd let you know =P Dottiewest1fan (talk) 02:10, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but Chely Wright is the first country singer to come out, NOT K.D Lang. All the sources used for the article are correct. People are wanting to say that the article is incorrect when its not. K.D. Lang is not a exclusive country singer, she sings pop too. Actually she sings more pop than country doesn't she? These K.D. Lang fans just keep pushing to have the article say that K.D Lang was first when she wasn't. Actually having K.D Lang in the article is pointless because the article is about Chely Wright, NOT K.D. Lame, I mean K.D Lang. The Fans of K.D Lang need to stop pushing for her inclusion in this article.--99.177.250.140 (talk) 23:33, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I added the word "American" in front of your entry for Chely Wright as the first to come out. According to the Wiki entry for k.d. lang "Lang ranked #33 on VH-1's 100 Greatest Women in Rock & Roll in 1999 and #26 on CMT' 40 Greatest Women in Country Music in 2002, one of only eight women to make both lists." seems pretty clear to me who was first... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bcinns (talk • contribs) 21:12, 19 May 2010 (UTC) ...and you all keep taking it out - whatever - guess Wiki is totally US oriented.142.68.45.207 (talk) 21:59, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

• It's not about being US oriented...it's about reporting what the fucking source says, not what some wikipedia editor decides to interpret for himself. Read WP:OR. Niteshift36 (talk) 23:49, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

The source being two US newspapers - but that doesn't make it US oriented, right? Lang, who came out as a lesbian in a 1992 article of the LGBT-related news magazine The Advocate, has actively championed gay rights causes, lang was #26 on CMT' 40 Greatest Women in Country Music in 2002, therefor an accurate article would not state that Chely Wright is the first country western artist to come out. My solution was to simply put the word "American" in front of the statement making it clear that Chely is the first American Country Western artist to come out, and it need not mention Ms. Lang at all. To do otherwise simply means Wiki is quoting incorrect US sources who are being xenophobic and not recognizing that there are other countries in the world - countries like Canada where an artists lifestyle is not such a huge deal.99.192.73.58 (talk) 10:51, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Quite simply, most country fans don't seem to consider Lang to have been a country artist - she's a pop artist who has had some country releases. The same could be said for Ray Charles, but he's not a country musician either. Wright was a mainstream country artist in the 1990s. Also, it hasn't been called "country western" for 30 years or more. --Khajidha (talk) 11:40, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Wiki entries are not based on "what most fans think" - they are based on references. The reference to support the contention that kd lang is a Country artist is simple - lang was #26 on CMT' 40 Greatest Women in Country Music in 2002. If you are saying that what fans feel vs what Country Music Television reports differs, that's fine, but the fact remains that the two US newspapers quoted in the article to support the assertion that Ms Wright is the first "major country artist to come out" (quoted from the entry under discussion) is obviously inaccurate. I simply don't see the big deal about making it completely accurate by adding the one word "American" in front of the other adjectives (country artist). Failing to do that makes the article misleading and opens up all this discussion. If it's that important that Chely be seen as the first, fine - create a blog, but don't simply keep saying that because two US papers can't report a story accurately, and there is documented evidence of a contrary fact that one simply wants to ignore, that your article is correct. If the author is so intent that they wish the article to remain as is and wrong, fine, but it demeans what Wiki stands for.99.192.73.58 (talk) 11:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

The list also includes Linda Ronstadt. It isn't necessary to be a country musician to release a country song, or even to be influential in country music. Also, your contention that the US sources are being xenophobic is an assumption as well. --Khajidha (talk) 12:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Try to follow the facts: 1. kd lang came out in 1992 - source Advocate 2. kd lang was #26 on CMT' 40 Greatest Women in Country Music in 2002 3. Chely Wright came out in 2010 4. Any assertion that Chely is the first country artist to come out is simply wrong A possible other correction could be that Chely is the first "solely" country artist, perhaps, but that's not what was reported. Linda Ronstadt used to be categorized as Country, so what? And the assertion that the two US newspapers is xenophobic is meant to not "assert" anything - it is factual that if they report contrary to 1 - 3 above they are simply wrong as well.99.192.73.58 (talk) 12:17, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Your possible "other" correction is simply the intended reading of the report. kd lang is not solely a country artist, therefore saying that she is a country artist without also saying she is a pop artist is incorrect. Lang's position on that chart shows only that she is a woman who has released some country music, not that she is a (solely) country music artist. I don't recall Ms. Ronstadt ever having been classified as a (solely) country artist, merely as an artist who had some success with country releases while remaining mainly a pop artist. You interpret their report as contrary to your facts, I interpret their report as disagreeing with you over what is meant by "country music artist". By your definition anyone who has ever released any country songs (or released any songs to country radio) is a country artist. By that definition Uncle Kracker, Kid Rock and Ween are all "country artists". Saying that the exclusion of kd lang comes from xenophobia is saying that the papers in question have a bias against either homosexuals, Canadians, or people who don't capitalize their names. Do you have proof of this bias, or are you simply assuming it because they made a statement that you disagree with? --Khajidha (talk) 13:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

• You try following the facts......Lang has not done a country album since BEFORE she came out. The CMT list you refer to came out (no pun intended) in 2002, but wasn't based on the events of 2002. She abandoned country music BEFORE coming out. Here are the FACT, not the opinion of some anonymous editor: Fact: Multiple reliable sources have said Wright is the first "major country artist" to come out. Fact: The article says exactly that. Fact: The article is currently in line with WP:RS and WP:V. Fact: Your suggestion is WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. So enough already. Show a policy or stop the fanboy nonsense. Kid Rock has won a CMT award and been nominated for an ACM, but that doesn't make him a country artist. He is a rock/pop artist that made a country song or two.Niteshift36 (talk) 14:09, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

...+ Please cite ONE non-US source which says that Chely Wright is the first major country artist to come out. What does it matter WHEN kd lang crossed over? Are you saying that Shania Twain is not a country artist? The simple fact is the article as written is wrong - Chely is the first AMERICAN country artist to come out, not the first country artist.Sheesh...99.192.56.179 (talk) 18:50, 20 May 2010 (UTC) Oh, and since you asked - kd lang's Hymns of the 49th parallel (2004) had several country hits on it, including her covers of Johnny Cash's version of Bird on a Wire and Neil Young's After the Gold Rush. We Canadians know that a lady from Alberta singing those types of songs is country.99.192.56.179 (talk) 18:55, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't expect non-US sources to even necessarily know what (American) country music is. And Neil Young isn't country, so what does her covering a Neil Young song have to do with anything? As far as the crossing over goes, you are using the term to cover two different things. kd lang "crossed over" by CEASING TO RELEASE MUSIC TO COUNTRY RADIO, Shania Twain "crossed over" by BECOMING SUCCESSFUL IN COUNTRY AND POP MUSIC SIMULTANEOUSLY. The term "country artist" as used in the sources and as used by most people on this page (and seemingly most people period) is an artist who releases/has released primarily or even exclusively country music. BY THAT TEST, kd lang is not a "country artist" the majority of her music has been pop. Chely Wright has released ALL of her music under the classification country. --Khajidha (talk) 19:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

OK - I get it - the Chely fan base wants it to be this way - but just so you know - kd lang sang in May 2008 and got the following review: "Lang also showed off her vocal chops as a country singer with a stellar cover of Chris Isaak's Western Stars, which saw her backdrop spring to life as a starry night, and an "old-timey" version of Paydirt, with the singer surrounded by her band in a semi-circle, and the audience clapping along" (http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Artists/L/Lang_KD/ConcertReviews/2008/06/01/5735311-sun.html) Lang in Canada is considered a country artist, so is Twain, and Neil Young has also released country music (several singles and a couple of whole country albums...) You all are debating whether kd lang is or isn't country, when I have cited several sources stating she is, you all are debating she stopped being country, which was true for a time (due to her hassles against beef - she is a vegetarian) but she continues NOW to be a country artist. It isn't ME being the fan type here, I am looking for accuracy and I've given several WP:OR99.192.56.179 (talk) 19:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:Talk_page#Indentation

If you read Wikipedia:Talk_page#Indentation you will see that comments on discussion pages are supposed to be posted in the order they are made, so the newest one always goes at the bottom. The third example they give, where George is replying to John even after Elliot and Jane have responded shows how indenting is the indicator of who a response is to, not the order. The comments made by Niteshift36 at 23:44, 3 May 2010 (UTC) and 23:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC) were not put at the end and with the proper number of indents as the instruction page shows. I fixed both the indents (or lack thereof) and the order. My changes are correct. 142.177.23.251 (talk) 00:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Then you change the indentation, not the location! At this point, you are altering the conversation and context. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:33, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

First, the fact that you still use the asterisk and not colons for indents shows you have not looked at the page that tells you how to format comments. I fixed your asterisk to a colon here, but please use colons in the future. Second, if you would bother to read the page I have linked to you will find that it is wrong to insert comments in between two already posted comments, so what you call "ill-conceived reorganization" is actually just puting things as Wikipedia requires. 142.177.23.251 (talk) 00:39, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

What you fail to understand it the policy you are citing is NOT a policy. It is a suggestion. Nobody is required to follow it. However, your alterations change the discussion. That is vandalism. I've read it, I just place more importance on the content of what is said than I do counting colons. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:43, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Every time someone makes an edit on a talk page there is a box at the top of the page that says "Please respect the talk page guidelines". Those guidelines say that inserting comments between already posted ones is wrong. You can call it a "suggestion", but it sounds like policy to me. 142.177.23.251 (talk) 00:49, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't care if it "sounds" like a policy to you. It's not. Policy pages have a banner at the top telling you they are a policy. Style guidelines have banners identifying them as such. etc. You don't see that at the top because it's not a policy. It is a preferred style, not a requirement. Further, you say "Those guidelines say that inserting comments between already posted ones is wrong", but the page you are citing shows an example of how editors can do exactly that. Your own "source" proves your claim incorrect. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:53, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines, "Editing – or even removing – others' comments is sometimes allowed. Some examples of appropriately editing others' comments: ... Fixing layout errors: This could include moving a new comment from the top of a page to the bottom...." So what I did was acceptable editing according to the guidelines. Not vandalism. Not disruption. Something Wikipedia guidelines call "appropriate". 142.177.23.251 (talk) 00:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Editing, as in fixing indentation. Not the context. It is disruption. It alters the meaning of the discussion. Removing is for violations of BLP etc. Do not move a response to a different location so as to make it change context of discussion flow. You've made your so-called "fixes", so this further belaboring of this is pointless. Niteshift36 (talk) 01:01, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

"It alters the meaning of the discussion." What alters the meaning of the discussion is when a comment is inserted above an already posted comment but at the same level of reply, making it look like the older one came after the newer one. This reply, however, by virtue of its indenting, is a different conversation thread from the less indented comment below it, so no such ambiguity arises. Sticking to the guidelines - both on order and indenting - leads to clarity. 142.177.23.251 (talk) 01:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

"Your own "source" proves your claim incorrect." Not true. You don't seem to have read it correctly. What it tells you is how you can insert comments between comments when the coment inserted is at a further level of indentation to the one it is above. But what you did was insert comments at the same level of indentation. Those are supposed to go below, not between the comments in question. 142.177.23.251 (talk) 01:24, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I removed the following from the article

I have removed the following from the article "Canadian singer-songwriter k.d.Lang was active in country music in the 1980s and came out as a lesbian in the early 1990s, but had not gained mainstream acceptance in the genre and had moved to pop music."

This does not belong in a article about Chely Wright because,well this article is about Chely Wright not K.D. Lang. Also I know that when I was reading the article about Chely Wright's personal life it seemed kind of odd and out of place to see a blurb about K.D. Lang. The Fact is that Chely Wright was the first country artist to come out and the 2 of many sources (Boston Herald and New York Daily News) back this up. From what I have read online, K.D Lang did not come out while she was a country singer, she came out when she was a pop singer. I realize that it seems like I am splitting hairs here but technically it is correct that she came out while she was a pop singer.--BeckiGreen (talk) 03:19, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

• You are correct. We had that debate above. Both sources list Wright as the first major country artist to come out. Lang did some country albums, but didn't have the commercial success Wright did. And Lang had abandoned country and was making pop albums when she came out. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
• True, true. Hekerui (talk) 04:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Ummm... "Lang did some country albums, but didn't have the commercial success Wright did." Obviously you did not check their respective discography pages. Lang's final two country albums both went gold in the US. Wright has only ever had one gold album. One of those two Lang albums was in the Billboard Country top ten, the other made it to #12. Wright has only ever had one top ten album and her second best one did not make it to #12 (it was #15). Lang clearly had marginally more commercial success than Wright in country music. But she had left the genre before she came out, so if Lang was not the first major country artist to come out it was not because her level of success was not high enough to count as a "major" artist, but because she was no longer a country singer. 142.177.24.137 (talk) 14:56, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

• Um, yeah, I know what I said and it is correct. True, Lang had 2 country alubums go gold in the US. But the highest charting country single she had was #22. Wright had a #1. Lang had 4 country singles chart in the US. Wright has had 17 so far. Lang got up to #9 once in country albums, Wright went to #4. It's all moot because 1) The reliable sources made the statement and 2) Lang had already abandoned country and gone to pop music when she came out. Wright hasn't. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Someone added the K.D. Lang paragraph back in the article and I removed it again. I am not trying to start a edit war but I will keep removing it because it had nothing to do with Chely Wright's personal life. It sticks out like a sore thumb in the article.--BeckiGreen (talk) 21:13, 12 May 2010 (UTC)