Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pioneer One

Pioneer One

Pioneer One (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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There is no evidence of notability. The article cites no sources except for a site where the film is available for download. Web searches have likewise produced a few download sites, facebook, linkedin, a forum post etc, but nothing that could be regarded as a reliable independent source. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

• If you really want to delete it please watch it yourself first before deleting —Preceding unsigned comment added by General Staal (talk • contribs) 16:33, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

• I would like to comment that simply watching a certain film does not make it notable, although I'd probably wait a little bit before nominating it for deletion before it even has a chance. Tavix |  Talk  17:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. -- Tavix |  Talk  17:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
• Delete: I can't find significant coverage for this film. Joe Chill (talk) 18:40, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
• Keep: When I search the web I find several articles about it. Plus, the principle of torrent-based distribution is some kind of a "premiere" for a TV serie, and this is IMO a sufficient reason for a wiki article... Bornerdogge (talk) 18:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
• Keep: This is the first movie made for distribution over torrents. This is notable in itself. A previous artist, The Future Sounds of London, did a similar notable project when they released their ISDN album over ISDN (rather than via CD). [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.191.166.192 (talk) 19:36, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
  • First TV show released over BitTorrent, not first movie. The first movie released entirely over BitTorrent would probably be The Lionshare. 24.247.162.139 (talk) 23:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
• Delete: It's laudable and interesting to have a torrent-based tv show, but it doesn't seem to have racked up much public interest, so until it does, I'd say delete. The individual artistic merits of the show should be irrelevent to Wikipedia policy, only it's cultural impact is important. Otherwise Wikipedia is being used as an advertising medium for generating interest where there currently isn't any. Gymnophoria (talk) 21:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
• I just want to say that I created this article only after watching the show. I am not affiliated with the project. Also, you can not prevent Wikipedia generating interest for the subjects of its articles. And I don't see why you have this strict rule anyways. According to this logic you would delete Van Gogh's entry if he lived today.General Staal (talk) 22:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
• Weak keep: As a fan of the project (haven't watched it yet, but am currently downloading it), I do think it's notable in that it's the first TV series released purely through Bittorrent channels (that I can find, at least). But I recognize that it hasn't had much attention outside of the Bittorrent community (Torrentfreak, VODO, etc.) and no one knows yet how well it will be received, so I'm not sure if its "historical moment" notability is enough to keep it. (former Wikipedian here, so I know the policies) But I'm leaning more toward keep. I did a little work on the article and tried to find some more references/links, if that's any help. 24.247.162.139 (talk) 23:59, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
• Comment/Question: (from 24.247.162.139; I finally gave up and just made an account per WP:CLEANSTART. If I'm going to keep editing like I am, I might as well have an account...) I don't remember this ever coming up before, but is TorrentFreak considered a reliable source? Pioneer One has been mentioned extensively there. It's also been promoted by VODO, which although releasing the pilot, isn't actually connected to the creation of Pioneer One. Fletch the Mighty (talk) 01:10, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
• Keep: It is now available for direct download and streaming on several sites (the sites are listed on SideReel.com), and while I had already heard of the title, the ONLY place I could find any useful information about the project itself was on Wikipedia. Also, the first two minutes of the film is a promo encouraging the creation of similar projects for free distribution (via the competition on mofilm.com), in case that is a good reason to keep it listed here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.238.152.143 (talk) 02:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
  • That's not necessarily reason enough to keep the article, though. Wikipedia's not for promotion of anything, even good things like freely distributed projects, and it's not supposed to be the only source of anything. It's an encyclopedia and thus a tertiary source, meaning it relies purely on outside information, not a secondary source that reports on something. We need to find more outside sources talking about Pioneer One for the article to be adequately sourced. Fletch the Mighty (talk) 02:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
• if deleted redirect to the spaceprobe Pioneer 1 70.29.212.131 (talk) 04:58, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
• Keep: I saw this film mentioned elsewhere and then immediately went to Wikipedia to look it up (as I do whenever I hear about about a film that sounds interesting). I don't see how this is any different to Wikipedia having entries for mainstream studio films before they have actually been released and become culturally important. The only difference is that there is an established promotional infrastructure which can be exploited by mainstream studios to make sure any film they release is 'notable'. I would say that the novel distribution method and connected aims (first 'TV show' distributed via BitTorrent) make it notable by definition. 08:42, 18 June 2010 (UTC)