User talk:Rochelimit

Welcome!

Some cookies to welcome you!

Welcome to Wikipedia, Rochelimit! I am Marek69 and have been editing Wikipedia for quite some time. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Wikipedia! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page or by typing {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• Introduction
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• How to write a great article

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!

Marek.69 ^talk 19:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

re: your message

Hi Rochelimit, I've left a reply to your message on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 21:15, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Rochelimit (talk) 20:50, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes thanks alot, I've read it already. I'm still very new here, still confused. I hope you can read my reply to your comment here, I don't know exactly how is your mechanism on tracking me. Once again, thanks. Rochelimit (talk) 21:28, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

new addition: table for Jakarta article - Administration

Dear Marek69, or whoever read this

I added a new table in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakarta#Administration , but the number of the table is not in numeric format. I have trouble trying to apply the numeric format (USA type). Can you help me fix this? Also the source link provided in the head of the table is actually the same link, is there away to make the reference number [39], [39], [39] instead of [39], [40], [41] Rochelimit (talk) 00:45, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by numeric format (they show up as regular numbers to me). To have the same source, instead of <ref>Reference</ref>, change it to <ref name="Name here"></ref>. THen for the second time you use it, just put the <ref name="Name here"></ref> and that's all.  fetchcomms☛ 00:52, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean numeric formatting like you would find in Microsoft Excel and other spreadsheet programs? Ks0stm If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. 01:02, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

I mean I wanted the number to have the US format, with commas in between the numbers, and also make the numbers aligned to the right. Can you help me do this please? I am very new with HTML format.

I can try. Ks0stm If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. 01:18, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks alot!

First disagreement, deleted edit for no apparent reason

Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Merbabu#Why_do_you_delete_the_flags_of_the_Sister_City_in_Jakarta.3F

Suggestion to replace a bad quality picture with good quality picture

{{helpme}} Dear loyal Wikipedians,

Is there a template that suggest people to replace a bad quality picture with a better quality picture? Thank you, --Rochelimit (talk) 00:49, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Why not replace them yourself? --Tyw7  (Talk • Contributions) 00:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

There is a template on commons, if the file resides there...you can find it at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Provide_better_quality. Ks0stm If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. 00:56, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean {{imagereplaced}}? I can't find a template like the above on wiki. But nobody's stopping you from creating one. File:Grin.gif--Tyw7  (Talk • Contributions) 00:58, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually I saw somebody post an image of a cityscape of Jakarta, but the resolution is too low. As I am not living in Jakarta, I was thinking maybe it's better to ask people to replace the current image with a better picture. Then I was thinking, maybe there is a template for this function . . . okay Ks0stm got the point, but I have no idea how to use that template. Probably it's better to leave the picture alone that way until somebody replace it with a better picture? Rochelimit (talk) 01:14, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

To make it easy, I would leave the image and ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia and on the talk page of the original uploader if anyone living in the city can take a higher quality picture. Ks0stm If you reply here, please leave me a {{Talkback}} message on my talk page. 01:31, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Wise suggestion, thanks a lot! :) Rochelimit (talk) 01:47, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Image that doesn't follow default template

Today I found many changes in Jakarta article. It is not vandalism, some are good changes, but some are bothering me: the default introduction image and the cityscape, plus an image with no link. The intention is good but the action is reckless. I already talk with the user Mikael07 (talk) and revert necessary changes. I hope he will read some of the basic rules of Wikipedia first and make good changes, because I see there is a potential for a good image contributor. Rochelimit (talk) 10:04, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

re: your message

Hi Rochelimit, Thank you for your message. I've left you a reply on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 22:14, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry if I don't get back to you straight away Rochelimit, but unfortunately I have an intermittent internet connection at the moment. :-(

Meanwhile, you may want to add your opinion to this current discussion. -- Marek.69 ^talk 22:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

oh my big apologize

before judging my neutral point of view.....

i was just wondering if there member doesnt want to improve the quality of the article....

if you want to improve the article, why dont you do it yourself instead of deleting my work ?

i just want to improve the article as the picture was so bad, and if you want to change my picture with the new one, why dont you make the better picture then change mine, and still use mine as the picture until you put another new one, it's better than you still want the old bad picture.......

so, the point, keep my picture in it until you find the new one..... but dont use the old picture, it just gives the poor description about Jakarta.......

by the way, i manage my neutral point of view as i never delete the important material of that article even though it's bad condition of Jakarta, example the flood, slum and dump —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikael07 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

and

by the way.... i agree to keep the old picture in the introductory until you find the better one, yet i renew the pictures in the tourism and attraction plus the cityscape, i hope you not to delete it again, too many old fashioned picture in Jakarta's article, Malaysian people will be laugh looking that, and i want you to make my picture get its link as you said, i dunno how to make a link—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikael07 (talk • contribs) 03:52, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I do improve articles, I just keep it to myself. Thanks for reviewing my comment and changing the picture. I have to say the picture now is better than the previous one, although I still prefer if you post a photo with a better resolution one (see New York City cityscape). But in the mean time, let's keep it that way. The previous picture you replaced actually has better resolution than your picture now, and it is up-to-date.

I suggest to keep the Malaysia problem to yourself, although that problem probably can be a good push for Indonesian people to upgrade the article (professionally) :)

and remember to sign your posts by typing four tildes. BTW I don't understand what link? Thanks! Rochelimit (talk) 05:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

you are Indonesia

oh i have just known you are Indonesian...

actually, i am not Indonesian yet i like your country very much..... my name is Andrew i am Argentinian, now i am working in Toronto as advisor in IMF, i know Indonesia in late 90's when it was hit by financial crises yet, i am proud of your country, having numerous of cultures and pluralism religions....

i never see in my life the pluralism like what in Indonesia is, people with majority of Islam yet they share their life with other religious groups peacefully despite sometimes tension happening over there

the things i confuse when i read both Indonesia and Jakarta's article is the lack of data it has, Indonesia is a big country still, the article shows it just like a small country, also the pictures are really old fashioned, i visited Jakarta in 2008 and it was unlike what i saw and read in wikipedia, this site hide the truth a lot........

by the way, what is your suggestion for me, i added three pictures, one as the cityscape, and two in the tourism section........ Mikael07 (talk) 12:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikael07 (talk • contribs) 12:29, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

hey... by the way... i need your help

once you said to me to make a gallery in Jakarta's article if i want to post Jakarta's pictures.....

i really want it, but it must be difficult, how if you help me do that ??, i send you some of Jakarta's picture i have taken from flickr.com, (it's free and allowed for wikipedia, i read the rules) and you make the Jakarta gallery....

if you want, just tell me then i give you my picture Mikael07 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikael07 (talk • contribs) 13:38, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

I NEED YOUR HELP

could you please help me add the license and author in the pictures i uploaded...........

i dunno how to add that with the summary box...

i give you the picture i uploaded and you fix the license.... here i tell you

• Dayak Girl, Indonesia.jpg : was taken from flickr.com and the author is hazize
• Jakarta at moonlight.jpg : was taken from my flash disk, it was my own work

please, i dont know how to fix the picture that have already been upoladed............... plz help me —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikael07 (talk • contribs) 14:13, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

First Image Upload

I uploaded a new image in my page for the first time. I wonder how the community will response ...

Flags

Yes indeed - the WP:PRECEDENCE is a missing link - ie, there is no such rule/guideline. That’s my point. Speaking generally, and not necessarily about flags, there is a lot of good stuff on wikipedia and there is a lot of less good stuff on wikipedia – but good or bad, the existence of “other stuff” in other articles doesn’t determine what happens in one article.

You say my comments on the appearance of flags is subjective – well, can’t the same be said of yours? You have not asserted why flags improve the article, you’ve only said they are used elsewhere. You need to show why they are needed. There should be nothing superfluous on wikipedia.

But thank you for being consistently civil and willing to hear others’ points of view, rather than being combative. Too many aren't like this, and it ultimately undermines the encyclopedia. Approaches like yours make working on wikipedia much more productive and is much appreciated. Regards --Merbabu (talk) 00:31, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

First Article: Bendungan Hilir

Today I've made my first article: Bendungan Hilir, a village of a subdistrict of a city of Jakarta. It is meant to be the starting point for a comprehensive list of Jakarta's village or Kelurahan. I hope somebody will help me organizing the category. Will ask for help after my 1 whole week off. Or maybe I'll just cancel that article and instead merge it all under the article of its subdistrict. Rochelimit (talk) 05:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

First Reference for an Article Stub

Today I'm adding a reference to a stub article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanah_Abang. The reference is still rather messy, as in that there may be a better template to show a reference from a web. Will ask for help after my 1 whole week off. I might even merged some article, because Jakarta Subdistricts article are way too 'stubby'.Rochelimit (talk) 05:49, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

First Map

I've made a map for Jakarta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jakarta_subdistrict.png). I know it's supposed to be in SVG format, but I want to move "slowly", whatever that means. Also make some improvement in Jakarta#Administration. Have a dilemma whether to put administration together as a beginning in the cityscape section, or just leave it that way. The answer will probably come after there is a real article about Jakarta's administration, as in how the mayor/governor work, etc. Until that time, maybe just leave it that way. Rochelimit (talk) 05:54, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Well done on the map. There is a shortage of maps of Jakarta on Wikipedia and this goes some way to addressing that. Any plans for any more? :-) Davidelit (Talk) 16:37, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I am looking for a map like yours (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jakarta_subdistrict.png) that shows Kecamatan borders overlayed onto a Google Map. Do you know of one? What source did you use to draw those borders? (Actually, I just want to see exact Kecamatan borders overlayed onto any precise street map of Jakarta. Doesn't have to be a Google Map but that is ideal) Surlyhacker (talk) 11:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

First Flickr Upload

Today, after a chit chat with Yohanes Budiyanto, I decided to upload one of his picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jakarta_Skyline_Part_2.jpg) into Wikimedia Commons and use it as the picture of Jakarta's cityscape. The licensing has been carefully monitored, and later a bot will verify the picture. I hope there will be no problem. It's a nice process though, enjoy every bit of it --Rochelimit (talk) 19:30, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Some issues

It is a very common feature of new editors doing articles to do with Indonesia - to want to create a kelurahan article (I lived in one and visited a few in central java a very long time ago - but I have not bothered to even think of creating stubs for such locations) - It might not seem much but it is a serious issue is - we have kecamatan articles for almost of all Indonesia- it is that are really the bottom of the hierarchy - unless the keluruhan has something that cries out with WP:N and WP:V and WP:RS - and even then - the issue of how many there are in Indonesia is a question - are we really ever going to get adequate information about every keluruhan? Just be thankful the project is not as strongly policy policed as it was a year or two ago - it would have been up for Afd within a day. Also note what I do to the stub. It would be appreciated if you could atttend to such detail when creating such stubs- thanks SatuSuro 13:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Indeed I agree. I am actually planning to move the Bendungan Hilir article in the near future to the subjected kecamatan article. This way, I hope I will remove the stub status of the kecamatan Tanah Abang article. Do you want to help me move the Bendungan Hilir article to the subjected Kecamatan? (Tanah Abang), or I suggest to leave it that way, because 10 days from now I will move Bendungan Hilir to Tanah Abang myself, as well as moving the important references. And I will expand the rest of the Kelurahan article.

I have to say Benhil area is actually a real historic area founded by the Dutch in the late 19th century as a residential area. It has an interesting typology of Arabic, Chinese, Dutch, and local building. It is heavily studied in urban planning. So I have to say this Benhil area is rather special as a kelurahan. --Rochelimit (talk) 19:19, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe but you need to understand WP:N, WP:V and WP:RS (especially WP:NOT in the face of that - my big toe is an interesting confluence of various things too - you must be able to get things in perspective! Have a safe christmas :) SatuSuro 00:54, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the input. I'm a bit bothered with your statement though: I lived in one and visited a few in central java a very long time ago. lol you will always lived in a kelurahan because it's a political division, equivalent to for example a neighborhood in Canada (sample: [[1]]). Yes I won't make every kelurahan in Jakarta (and not even in Central Java), but some of the kelurahan in Central Jakarta and North Jakarta are formed by a unique political division since the 17th century, and we did an extensive research on it (back then in my bachelor). I'm aware that some of this info is important (especially in the field of urban planning). I can put all the list, since I have the data, although it will be all red links.

One more thing (off topic), there is this translation issues... kecamatan: subdistrict (ex district), kelurahan: village (ex subdistrict). Until now I can't find a verification that the translation of kecamatan is subdistrict, and that district is a "former" term. Most of (updated-2009) government statistic book use the terms district for kecamatan and subdistrict for kelurahan, which contradicts with the one in Wiki. Even the 2009 Map of Jakarta use the term that Wiki define as "former". I have no idea who started the idea to translate kelurahan into village. I'm planning to put this in a discussion, but I don't know ... that issue is like already rooted in Wiki, and nobody seems to touch the issue. Kinda frustrating really.

Until then, I will be off for more than a week. You too have a safe Xmas --Rochelimit (talk) 06:13, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

When you get back - there will be plenty of time to go through it all - have a safe time off wiki SatuSuro 06:28, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

hey...

in order not to make any mistakes again, i just want to ask you to add the picture of "Dayak Girl" in Indonesia's article, try to find the good one, put it in the demography section, and Jakarta's picture in the economy section, the pictures will be deleted in 21 th december... today.....

a lot of thanks.... i will prefer giving this to better people than me, i will just make the trouble in the article.... so, can you add two pictures i mentioned in the Indonesia's article--Mikael07 (talk) 01:37, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the understanding. Just give me any request then I will try to "filter" it. I'm planning to put a better picture than a mere "Dayak girl", I'm planning to put a collage of different races in Indonesia: Minang (the maternal), Java (the kingdom-ish), Dayak (the headhunter), Aceh (the muslim), Bali (the hindu), Tengger (the mount worshipper), etc. BTW somebody has already put a picture of Jakarta in economy and a Minang girl in Demographic. I will replace the Minang girl picture probably.

Have a nice christmas in Toronto! PS: I've made a thorough research on Buenos Aires in our faculty. I've been there, it's a great city. I really love the enthusiasm of the people to improve and to be proud of the city (despite the infamous government :D). When I was there, I actually feel at home in Jakarta -- Rochelimit (talk) 06:20, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

hey

i have already put the Jakarta picture in the economy section, i used the pic from wikimedia, so it definitely has the license, right ?

yeah, you need to change the Minagkabau old-fashioned, may be with Dayak girl picture, find the nice picture, thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikael07 (talk • contribs) 11:06, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

'My article'

On your user page - be very very careful - they are not - see WP:OWN - you did not start them and will not finish them - please understand what that means in english. SatuSuro 00:39, 30 December 2009 (UTC) If I have not explained sufficiently - the articles are well established - and do not actually 'belong' to anyone - so when you put 'My' - the whole of wikipedia is basically a work in process - so it would be more correct to indicate them as 'current interest' - or something you want to attend to - but never 'own' - also 'over-focusing' on any one article can restrict your focus upon what the wider wikipedia is all about! - also remember to always sign talk pages messages SatuSuro 00:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

okay thanks for the input, I really treat my user page as something private. Maybe I should be more aware that people read my user page ... Happy Holiday --Rochelimit (talk) 09:49, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

nominate Jakarta History Museum

hey,

since you expanded the article Jakarta History Museum, you might wanna think about nominating it Template:Did you know. cheers Gryffindor (talk) 09:15, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi, how do you do it? did you just copy paste it in the article? above the article or below the article? I'm a bit confused, can you probably help me nominate it so I can learn the template from your intervention? :)--Rochelimit (talk) 09:45, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Go here and follow the steps Template talk:Did you know, it's actually quite simple. Gryffindor (talk) 09:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

After grueling for a while with my slow brain, finally I manage to nominate two of my article expansion to Wiki, thanks! :) --Rochelimit (talk) 10:17, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Excellent! hope it works and the articles get nominated. Best is to check the nomination page regularly in case you get comments and feedback from other users on what might be missing or what else to improve. Good luck! Gryffindor (talk) 10:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Bromo Tengger Semeru National Park

Hello Rochelimit and Welcome to Wikipedia! Nice to see your work on expanding the Bromo Tengger Semeru National Park article. As you expanded the article more than 5x, it can be nominated for the main page DYK. If you need assistance I can help. There are a few things which need clarification as noted on the article's talk page. If you could address these, as you have access to Indonesian sources, that would improve the article. cheers, Elekhh (talk) 08:59, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

• Responded here.
  • Hi, finally the article is in the DYK Queue, so it should appear on the main page in the next couple of days. Thanks for clarifying all those issues I raised. If you would like to collaborate on any other Indonesian national park article(s), you can count on me. :) Elekhh (talk) 07:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
    • Amazing, thanks! Will inform you of any national park expansion or creation --Rochelimit (talk) 11:31, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK - Maritime Museum (Indonesia)

Hello! Your submission of Maritime Museum (Indonesia) at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Sasata (talk) 16:38, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Aceh Tsunami Museum

Hello! I came upon your article about the Aceh Tsunami Museum. I liked the article so much that I nominated it for DYK consideration: [2]. Good luck!

Thank you, I really appreciate it. There is no picture though --Rochelimit (talk) 21:45, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

re: your message

Hi Rochelimit, I've left a reply to your message on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 03:08, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Wayang Museum

Hello! Your submission of Wayang Museum at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Calmer Waters 02:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Hellooo....

Rochelimit, good day, how do you do ?

let me introduce my name, i am Sweetmistery, now i live in Canary islands, Spain.....

i wish i can call you if i need some helps, okey ! thanks,--Sweetmistery (talk) 07:06, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi sweetmistery, I'm also relatively new, but I will help you as much as I can. Welcome !!! :) --Rochelimit (talk) 08:15, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

thanks...what a kind ;)

thanks, yes, i must need you help for sometimes, by the way, where do you come from ? --Sweetmistery (talk) 13:55, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Did You Know problem

Hello! Your submission of Ambarawa Railway Museum at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Note: I always leave approvals to others. Art LaPella (talk) 03:30, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Jakarta History Museum

On January 9, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Jakarta History Museum, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 12:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Wayang Museum

On January 9, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Wayang Museum, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 18:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I just notice this, I didn't see the Jakarta History Museum though. Thanks for informing me about this :) --Rochelimit (talk) 19:24, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

What dont you understand

When lists have red links removed? SatuSuro 15:52, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Excuse me? elaborate please? --Rochelimit (talk) 23:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=List_of_museums_and_cultural_institutions_in_Indonesia&action=historysubmit&diff=337011036&oldid=336890979 - could you say why you add a red link to a cleanedup up list? Please explain what you dont understand about cleaned up lists SatuSuro 02:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I change the link because it is supposed to be linked to a Textile Museum in Jakarta, since the previous link is linked to another Textile Museum not related to Jakarta. I have a plan to create an article for the real textile museum in Jakarta, so that can probably be a good start.

I also noticed that this article has been majorly "cleaned", not only the red links are deleted, also the black non-links are deleted. It would be nice if I can be informed before doing such major deletion.--Rochelimit (talk) 02:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

You dont WP:OWN articles - worse thing happen than that - get used to it - put it on watch and read up more about what WP:ABOUT and WP:NOT rather than complaining SatuSuro 07:08, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Who's complaining? I'm just asking that it would be nice to inform me about something, like new DYK article, or major improvement in articles; so that in the future we probably can collaborate. I'm not complaining or mad at all. I don't even think that the article is my article. Actually, I'm confused because your mail seems to be that you are angry or something? My apology then if you are insulted by something? It's good to be informed about something, but if your message is short and not clear, it is confusing. Maybe next time use a clear message, that will be helpful.--Rochelimit (talk) 15:13, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I have no negative or angry things at all about and of this or you personally - it seems you have a limited understanding of wikipedia - I offer some links - if you have the articles you work on - well sometimes some people are not polite here - just enjoy it when people do help and are nice and pleasant -

As for It would be nice if I can be informed before doing such major deletion - when lists are created in the Indonesian project - the currently active editors tend to try to keep the lists with items linking to articles that exist - otherwise it is very hard to detect 'hoax' and 'non-notable' names that creep into lists - the project has a lot that not on any one editors watch list - and as a result Category:Indonesia-related lists has many that have been filled with incorrect and non-notable items - and it takes time to maintain such items - so when possible we try to keep them with linked items only - cheers SatuSuro 15:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

OK now I understand. Yes I do have a limited understanding of Wikipedia (I'm only about 2 months since first start editing Wiki articles), that's why I need settled users to help me with improving articles, by doing collaboration, asking help, or asking review and improvements with other settled users like you and other people you can see in my discussion page. I'm all open and willing to listen, but of course if the message is not clear, I don't get anything but misunderstanding. I mean how can I understand this sentence: ==What dont you understand== When lists have red links removed? and then get used to it and rather than complaining, what do you think?

So I'm just asking for a clearer message, that simple. But thanks for the link, and I hope you can handle those 'impolite' users, cause I am not one of them and have no business with them. I'm here to help improving articles, not to debate. Do inform me of any 'event', major article improvements, opinion, nominations, etc. --Rochelimit (talk) 16:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Rochelimit

go to Talk:Indonesia, thanks --Sweetmistery (talk) 06:25, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

re: your message

Hi Rochelimit, I've left a reply to your message on my talk page -- Marek.69 ^talk 22:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Bromo Tengger Semeru National Park

On January 12, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bromo Tengger Semeru National Park, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 00:00, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Amazing :D --Rochelimit (talk) 00:03, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Well done! SatuSuro 12:48, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Categories

When you choose Museums in Indonesia - it is already a descendant category from Indonesia - there is no need to include parent and descendant categories against the one article - as it then appears to be an article that belongs to Museums and the country. That is why I reverted the Indonesia part - the Museums and List categories are fine - the whole of the Indonesia project is over-categorised with parent/child category mixes that are entirely unnecessary - and which makes a serious issue of duplication - thanks SatuSuro 12:48, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, sorry about that... --Rochelimit (talk) 21:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Nah no need to apologise about that - many experienced users still do it with or without realising - and also you need to expect to find the combination in many places - if you know that the parent and child are definitely sitting next to each other - it is a valid exercise to remove the parent category - but take care! cheers SatuSuro 23:17, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Just a hint: further info at WP:DUPCAT. Elekhh (talk) 00:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Maritime Museum (Indonesia)

On January 13, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Maritime Museum (Indonesia), which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 00:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Whoa, thanks! --Rochelimit (talk) 11:33, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

WikiProjects invite

Hi Rochelimit, I see you have a very energetic start into Wikipedia! If you still got spare time and interest, I think you might be interested in WP:WikiProject Architecture and WP:WikiProject Urban studies and planning. Both are a bit sleepy at the moment and would benefit of new active members :). Elekhh (talk) 00:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Most of the Urban studies and planning articles are current researchs that are still going on and changing very fast... but OK, will try my best :D --Rochelimit (talk) 11:38, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Maybe after the national parks :P --Rochelimit (talk) 11:42, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

First initiation for a default template

Today is my first time trying to implement a new default template for a very important article, days of the years' Holiday and observances. Somebody told me it was an abandoned effort, but let see how it goes--Rochelimit (talk) 15:02, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

salam.....

are you Indonesian, salam, saya andiningrat , bisa tidak kamu membantu saya expand the Indonesian stub here !!, dan juga kamu dapat mengajari saya cara mengedit di sini, thanks ya........

stubs i have just meant are :

• Puncak
• Jabodetabek

and some articles about Indonesia, that need improving :

• Makassar
• Surabaya

, thanks......help me for better Indonesia's article--Andiningrat (talk) 11:12, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Halo Andiningrat! I am also relatively new here, so I don't know what I'm capable of :D. Simple word of advice: Stick to the article you are aware of, don't try to expand articles you know nothing about.

I like your idea of improving stub articles. You can try translating id.wikipedia article into en.wikipedia article to improve the en. stubs, but be aware, most of the id.wikipedia article have no references whatsoever (although ya, we are folks who value oral tradition, but in en.wikipedia, book reference is more important).

So try to validate what you find in id.wikipedia before you transfer it to en.wikipedia. There are lots of 'police' in en.wikipedia that continuously watch your activities. If you make a mistake and continuously repeat it, they might banned you.

So happy wiki-ing!!!!:D Inform me if you have any specific problem.

PS: Sorry I don't know much about Puncak, Makassar, and Surabaya. Puncak badly need expansion, yes (and I am a frequent Puncak traveler but know nothing about it). Jabodetabek I think is enough, at least for me, or if you know more about Jabodetabek, please improve it. --Rochelimit (talk) 22:52, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Aceh Tsunami Museum

On January 17, 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Aceh Tsunami Museum, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check ) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Materialscientist (talk) 18:01, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations! Warrah (talk) 20:17, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Cheers for us :D --Rochelimit (talk) 22:55, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

cheers with my glass of milk :D

Taman Sari

That is a well done article - youre getting better! Good work! SatuSuro 00:27, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

There are many small issues - when you are introducing 'legend has it' 'it is said' - you are introducing material that is unverifiable - and your use of refs suggests that whole prargraphs come from the one ref - there is no sign of Ricklefs (who did the hard work in the archives before all the derivative tourist brochures steal the ideas and stories without attribution) It might look good for a tourism article - but the mix of the 'legend' into the article makes it a problematic article... which way would you prefer - I can point out the issues (I did a lot of photography and research on the place a long time ago -but more about that some other time) and then edit - or the other way around if you would like - up to you SatuSuro 00:40, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Please could you let me know if you might understand what I might mean by redundancies in english? SatuSuro 06:36, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi SatuSuro

I always face that 'it is said' problem while making Indonesian article. Oral traditions and legends are very dominant in Indonesia. The Demang Tegis legend is one of the most popular legend about Taman Sari. But since you've been researching that place, you can edit it to conform the "encyclopedic" standard, but if you feel like you're removing too much information, can u move it to the discussion page as a template please? :)

btw, who/what is Ricklefs?

redundancies? as in too much insignificant infos? --Rochelimit (talk) 06:39, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi - thanks for checking what I mean - problem if you are copying material from websites - some of them - not all - they are not reliable WP:RS and some of the wordings show you are not a native speaker of english - which gives an editor problems - but hey good luck to your hard work!

redundancies means that some information is repeated over and over - and is not needed - and needs to be edited - we do not need 3 or more variants of the name of the place - 2 is enough - the overall argument of the article is good - it gives a well spread overview - but some of the grammar and spelling is problematic - and I would potentially challenge usage of it is said that and legend says - you need almost separate sec=tions for the folklore - I am amazed what javanese can invent around stories - when I lived in Yogya and clambered around the taman sari complex all those years ago and listened to and read these same stories - I would not give them credence in an wikipedia article as fact - they are inventions and need to be treated with great care- maybe ok in tourist brochures - but in an online encyclopedia I would be very careful...

redundancies is both in the repeated information - and also in general style - some sentences could be removed because they are simply taking too long to say something that can be edited.

Overall - good article - needs a lot of close tidying up and less reliance on folklore - if you use it - it needs to be flagged as such - there is no way most folklore or legend can be proved or disproved (which made my research in Yogyakarta an exciting time) - but simple recorded - I will look at the article again soon and leave a message as to how I would deal with the issue - cheers SatuSuro 06:50, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh ok, ya I always have that word repetition problem... so do please edit

ps: I have a terrible cold lol --Rochelimit (talk) 07:08, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

heheh - well you get better then!! - and dont be offended if I hack away later when I am not trying to re-invent the universe :) SatuSuro 07:12, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

this cold kinda makes me moody, so keep ur politeness ok ;) --Rochelimit (talk) 07:13, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Hahah - you just get better - so you can cope with the editing that will happen ok - SatuSuro 07:17, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

• I reviewed the article and I think it has no major structural problems, thus I would encourage you to nominate it for GA. There would be some prose and MOS issues but those can be sorted out also during the one week review process. It is time Indonesia gets a GA! Elekhh (talk) 23:10, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Thanks for telling me about 'Good Article'. I hope I'm doing it right, but I've just nominated the article in History-Archeology subsection, cross my fingers. --Rochelimit (talk) 21:36, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
    • Looks all correct to me. It takes about 1 month in average until somebody comes by to review, but you might be lucky to get a reviewer earlier, since there are not so many nominations in the category. You can use the time for further improving the article of course... Since you nominated it in the History/Archaeology section, expect some meticulous proofing of all historic data :). Elekhh (talk) 01:56, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

BS for you

	The Working Man's Barnstar
	For efforts in cleaning up the Holidays and observances on the date pages. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 16:09, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Taman Sari (Yogyakarta)

Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know I am glad to be reviewing the article Taman Sari (Yogyakarta) you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. . Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 11:21, 2 April 2010 (UTC) I request your reply within 2 days to the queries about the references, which will enable me to take a GA decision.--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 11:24, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello Redtigerxyz. I've read your message, thank you for being the reviewer of Taman Sari (Yogyakarta). I have to warn you though I am really new to the GA nomination feature, so please guide me. My background is urban planning and not particularly archeology. So with this knowledge, and the ability to access certain Indonesian site, I hope I can improve this article. Please leave talkback message if you reply in this page. Wait, I am in my page... lol just kidding :) --Rochelimit (talk) 11:35, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

At first glance, the article is well-written with references, but the references are sadly not up to wiki standards. Please read WP:RS (reliable sources), to get an idea of what type of references would be needed for a GA pass. The best place to start looking for RS would be government sites.--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 11:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC) Some books which may be useful:

• http://books.google.co.in/books?id=qhF0NAAACAAJ&dq=Taman+Sari+%28Yogyakarta%29&hl=en&ei=aNu1S6mqMIjDrAfsrLC3DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAA
• http://books.google.co.in/books?id=Br7dQgAACAAJ&dq=Taman+Sari+%28Yogyakarta%29&hl=en&ei=aNu1S6mqMIjDrAfsrLC3DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAQ
• http://books.google.co.in/books?id=jo0yAAAAIAAJ&q=Taman+Sari+%28Yogyakarta%29&dq=Taman+Sari+%28Yogyakarta%29&hl=en&ei=aNu1S6mqMIjDrAfsrLC3DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFwQ6AEwCA

--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 11:59, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Also if I was a reviewer - the over reliance on folklore that is inadequately referenced is an issue - it is said that. and folklore says.... is not a very reliable item for an article like that - if you have any Indonesian language capacity at all - there are cerita rakyat books that provide some information about the folkore of yogyakarta if you want help SatuSuro 12:11, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

One of these may have been used as a source. I'm sure that most of the materials are taken from the second source but I will look into it and try to replace the sources. The cerita rakyat, I don't know how to find a reliable source... (my brother have one as a bonus for buying a cereal, with colorful pictures). I find that most Indonesian people like to tell historic information in a story-like manner, using the word konon or suatu ketika (something like "once upon a time"); to the extent that some people think that the western style of giving information is too rigid, and so they add this whimsy words, which is bad I know. So some of these "folkloric" information can actually be a real information from a real source, but is told in a "once upon a time" manner. So often I'm in a dilemma, I don't even dare to remove it, because this may provide a clue to a real fact. There should be a real scientific source, of course, but for now I couldn't find it. It's hard! they even use once upon a time style in early 20th century colonial buildings in Jakarta (the capital). Maybe if I put these in a different section or change the wording, I dunno. Well let's see how I can go through this. My plan for now is to contact these people in these blogs, and ask them straight, where do they got this information. I might need some help though... --Rochelimit (talk) 19:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Turns out some of the important sources are in Javanese... D:.--Rochelimit (talk) 11:24, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

The big sangkalan foot note is not a good idea - the article is about taman sari not the sangkalan - that should actually be in a separate article SatuSuro 11:36, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

I would accept Javanese sources, if you convince me they are reliable by giving all details of the sources like publisher, author etc. I am putting the article on hold till Friday (7 days from start of review). Please ensure that references (and other issues, discussed on the GA page) are replaced by RS by then. I will complete the review by Monday. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 11:38, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Today I replaced some unreliable links in Taman Sari. I also mailed the guy who make the Taman Sari blog, who is actually one of the software designers for the 3D Taman Sari education tool. I doubt that he's going to reply my mail though, internet in Indonesia is not a convenient mode for communication. I also elaborate the explanation for sengkalan, which is a Javanese word for chronogram.--Rochelimit (talk) 22:05, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

There is a lot of infos taken from the periplus edition of Java. I have to read the article thoroughly and mention every pages where the information is taken x_x --Rochelimit (talk) 22:13, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Periplus as a source - that is same as blogs - in most case it is derivative, take every care in using it

Groneman - he might be Y or J in old transcriptions of Dutch - but in english he is Isaac - see http://cs.nga.gov.au/Detail.cfm?IRN=197844 - or http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/22176093?q=groneman+isaac&c=book - please note that - cheers SatuSuro 05:13, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Rochelimit, I hope you're not dissapointed by this challenge (since I kind of dragged you in to this GA nomination). Maybe a good way to go forward is to remove content which is not appropriately referenced according to GA guidelines (simply move it to one of your sandboxes), as for GA status, the article does not need to be long (many GAs are shorter than this article) or extensively cover all aspects of the subject. You can re-introduce those paragraphs once you obtain reliable references at a later stage as well (and go for the FA :). Elekhh (talk) 08:06, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi no worries, at least I learn something new :D. I just feel sorry bcoz this week I'm mega busy for other stuffs. I think the reviewer should give me 2 weeks to review this if I work alone. And I don't think I will remove the poorly referenced information though... even if it means that I won't get the GA... I just have to find a good reference for those poorly referenced info.

But the good news is I just found a good French thesis about Taman Sari complete with the historic map of the area (actually I have one, but it's a copyrighted image), which I think will fill in some of the bad references in the article (including the too many periplus source). But I'm really busy this week, so if u can also help me with correcting the references of Taman Sari, and maybe u also speak French? I think I will find good info on page 9 and 10. The article also have a beautiful picture of the Kenongo building in the past, the one that is now still in ruins. http://www.reseau-asie.com/cgi-bin/prog/gateway.cgi?langue=en&password=&email=&dir=myfile_colloque&type=jhg54gfd98gfd4fgd4gfdg&id=47&telecharge_now=1&file=t_44_njotofeillard_helene.pdf --Rochelimit (talk) 13:37, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Today I reorganize Taman Sari's references again; the blogspot sources are gone now. I try to put the link http://files.setyawara.webnode.com/200000004-1aebe1be6a/SENGKALAN.pdf with 'cite web' but Wiki keeps deleting this link. So I put the mother url where people can access this link. But the website itself doesn't look really convincing as a source... so I'm still looking for a source that explains the sengkalan. And thanks everybody who help me improving this article. --Rochelimit (talk) 19:34, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

There is some problem in filling references page/pages needs filling, not both. see documentation at {{cite book}} --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 16:33, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I's sorry, I will edit that --Rochelimit (talk) 16:36, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I am sorry but GA rules compel me to take a GA decision in a week. Don't be disheartened if the article fails. You can always renominate it for GA. Also, even if I am compelled to fail the article, I assure you that I will help you as much as I can by an unofficial review for a GA re-nomination for this or any other article, if you approach me. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:35, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

ok thank you --Rochelimit (talk) 17:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Taman Sari (Yogyakarta) has GA passed. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 14:33, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

!! Congratulations !! well done! SatuSuro 15:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Whoa thank God!! Thanks and cheers everyone, also --Redtigerxyz ^Talk the helpful reviewer!! choose ur drink in commons!!!!! xD --Rochelimit (talk) 22:05, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

currently in Holland--Rochelimit (talk) 22:05, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Need your help

please delete the picture of riot in Jakarta in May 14, 1998 in Jakarta page, that type of picture is not needed to explain Jakarta as demonstrations are happened everywhere--Mikael07 (talk) 10:26, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Missing reference

I am intrigued at what you have managed to uncovered so far - but am suprised that you have not either found or used -

J. Dumarcay Le Taman Sari etude architechturale Bulletin de l'Ecole francaise d'Extreme Orient no.65, 1978 p.135-183

J. Dumarcay Sur la logique symbolique des taman en monde javanais, se reported a l'article pionnier de D. Lombard Jardina a Java Arts Asiatiques number 20, 1969.

Your over-reliance upon Oey's Periplus Java textand the absence of the two Dumarcay articles would leave me consider the article short of indicating what is potentially available...

Oh sorry - I do have access to copies which I could in turn email scans to you sometime if you wanted of the first one (1978) - it has some amazing illustrations - which I dont think we could use :) SatuSuro 01:30, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh really? if I had more time, I would have found that one ... XD, I'm kinda busy, everything is a rush for Taman Sari's reference. BTW is the first one available online? (is it the same as this:? http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/befeo_0336-1519_1978_num_65_2_3916?_Prescripts_Search_isPortletOuvrage=false), but the page number is kinda different. Anyway I can't do anything today, maybe a little, because of an appointment; but thank you for telling me this.--Rochelimit (talk) 06:50, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually Dumarcay is so good, I just have to include it in the refs! thanks for pointing me that out :D --Rochelimit (talk) 07:20, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

-Sorry - you are correct my source had the page numbers confused with another article...

I once did a university research project on the place - and have many photos of it from when I surveyed the place myself  :) - but the photos are unreachable in the short term :( yes you have found the online version - pity my french wasnt better :) SatuSuro 07:43, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

May 20 - EDMD

May 20 is giving me a headache. --Rochelimit (talk) 09:57, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Rules

There is a need to categorize these amazing variety of world's observations and holidays. So far the categories are: independence or national day (important year), observations based on Julian calendar (e.g. Russian observations and orthodox lithurgic church), sidereal calendar (e.g. Indian festival that can varies by maximum 2 days), equinoxes and solstices (e.g. may day, jule, lammas), lunar days (jewish, muslim, chinese calendar; not included in days of the year, it's a pity though), nanakshahi calendar, well-established hallmark holiday (talk like a pirate day), days that is celebrated for 3 days maximum (New Year), greco-roman festivities, "the first of monday" days, christian feast days (especially the carnivals), secularized christian feast day (saint james, saint john, saint lucia, etc.), and "day closest to" days (e.g. martin luther king jr. day). --Rochelimit (talk) 21:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

List:

Basic rule

• Basically only observances that is celebrated on a fixed (Gregorian calendar) should be put in the Holidays and observances. This is valid for:
  • Observances that has a fixed day
  • Observances that has a fixed period
  • Observances that is celebrated based on the sun movement. (equinoxes or solstices-based observances (e.g. Neopagan celebrations))
  • Observances that has a different day each year, but has a fixed range of period. such as:
    • Days that is based on days of the week, e.g. Prinjesdag.
• Avoid writing descriptions for the observances in the Holidays and observances section. Descriptions should be available on the link provided in the Holidays and observances section.
• Avoid creating an observance without any link. An observance should has a link that is accepted by the Wiki community based on the wiki rules.

To check different kind of observance that can be put in the section holidays and observance section or not, please refer to this guideline: Ancient festivities

• Generally, only put a Greco-Roman festival with the correct equivalent of the Gregorian calendar dates. For the Greek festivities, take into account that a month in a Greek calendar is different with a month in Gregorian calendar (e.g. Boedromion 1 is not September 1)

Hallmark holidays

• Hallmark holidays should not be put in the Holidays and observances section, unless it has achieved a certain degree of popularity, e.g. Talk like a pirate day

Independence day or important national day

• the formatting for independence or national day should be put within this format:

Independence day, celebrates the independence of country from country in year

Lunar calendar observances

• Lunar calendar observances such as those in Islamic calendar, Jewish calendar, and Chinese calendar shouldn't be put in the holidays and observances section; unless it is a lunar calendar that has been made fixed e.g. some Japanese observances.

Name days and/or similar

• Name days or other similar type of day-naming (e.g. French Republican Calendar should not be put in the Holidays and observances section.

'Saint Days

• All saints should be put under a subgroup with a title of "Christian Feast Day", this includes
  • Apparations of Virgin Mary

but not

• • Secular celebration e.g. St. Patrick's day and St. Lucia's day can be put in a different category.

• Avoid using Saint or St. before the name of the saints, this is to avoid differing opinions of which some people are recognized as saints by one church but not by the other church. Except:
• Beatified people should be put with a Blessed before their name.
• Avoid using Julian calendar version, unless it is a well-established observance.
• There is an existing page for Eastern orthodox liturgics observances, therefore the formatting for this is " September 24 (Eastern Orthodox liturgics). "
• Distinction between different churches observances can be shown within brackets, but not within groups.
• If the saint has multiple feast days, the latest version should be chosen.

Scientology observances

• Church of scientology is a well-established cult, therefore it is valid to put scientology-related holidays in the Holidays and observances section.