Talk:British Racing Motors

Stub?

Is this entry really still a stub? Doesn't appear so to me, but I will defer to others opinions. Scottanon 19:31, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I think you are right. It has developed little by little. (RJP 12:28, 24 December 2005 (UTC))

Ground effect ?

BRM designed a wing car as early as 1969 ? Source please ? Ericd (talk) 01:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Mentioned in several places - to cite just a couple, Tony Rudd's autobiography, Doug Nye's "Autocourse History of the Grand Prix Car 1966-91" (which IIRC even has a pic of a windtunnel model of it). The car was unbuilt and unraced. It's been conjectured that John Surtees, BRM's No. 1 driver at the time, was reluctant to become involved with anything so 'advanced' after his unhappy experiences with the Chaparral 2H Can-Am. Volume 4 of Nye's history of BRM (don't hold your breath!) will feature its full story. Pete Fenelon (talk) 12:56, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Doug Nye is a reliable source IMO. However, the first wing-car was in fact the March 701 of 1970. See this picture http://www.awirz.ch/078sif.jpg were the side wings are clearly noticeable. However ground effect didn't work on the March. In fact Peter Wright, one of the designers of the 1970 March 701, brought the idea of ground effect to Lotus. I made some personal research and found that Wright worked for BRM before working for March. I am curious to know if BRM design was similar or something more effective like the Lotus 78. If BRM design was similar to the March 701 we should tone down the article because such a design failed to produce ground effect. Ericd (talk) 02:50, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

The 701 would never have generated serious ground effect, as it had no endplates/skirts on the side tanks - which weren't even universally used. The BRM wing car would have had endplates on its underbody to seal in the airflow... but yes, Wright set up Specialised Mouldings after leaving BRM. Pete Fenelon (talk) 21:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

It's really annoying when people use the phrase "...was in fact...", as if what they are saying is absolutely not open to argument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.47.66.50 (talk) 11:58, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Have to disagree with "1st wing car". Depending on your def, it's either the '66 (?) Chaparral 2J or '69 (?) Lotus (with the wing struts on the suspension, which promptly got banned).... TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 12:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

"Wing car" in this context means "ground effect" rather than "having aerofoils". And Swiss racers/engineers Pierre and Michael May mounted a large wing above the cockpit of a Porsche sports-racer circa 1955, but were not permitted to compete with it Mr Larrington (talk) 15:07, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

V-16

I used to have a book by Stirling Moss that discussed (among other things) the BRM V-16. He said that although the engine was very powerful it only delivered this power over a very narrow RPM band and unfortunately this coincided with the point at which the (then narrow) tyres lost grip, thus leading to wheelspin. Ian Dunster (talk) 10:02, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The characteristics of the centrifugal supercharger meant that the engine power just kept on increasing as the revs rose, to the extent that at 9,600 rpm in top it would indeed spin the wheels, although there was still a considerable amount of power lower down the range. Raymond Mays thought that this wheel-spinning stuff was a Good Thing; it seemed not to have occurred to him that the unfortunate driver might not want a car to behave thus. Mr Larrington (talk) 14:19, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply and info - interesting. One wonders what it might have done with the later wider wheels and slick tyres. The increasing power of the centrifugal blower with increased RPM is of course what is required in an aero engine, but obviously was a bit ahead of its time in motor racing, given the skinny tyres then in use.

Matra and the V12

"V12s were sold to other constructors of which the most notable were Cooper, John Wyer, McLaren and Matra (whose own V12 engine was developed with the assistance of BRM personnel)."

As far as I know Matra did not use the BRM V12. Used a BRM 2L V8 in the 620 and in some 630 chassis, the late 630 being powered by the Matra V12. A 630 chassis revceived a Ford 4,7L (a GT40 engine) to test the chassis with a more powerful engine but I never heard of a BRM V12 used by Matra.

I don't believe BRM was involed in the design of the Matra V12. THe Matra V12 was designed by Georges Martin an engineer coming from Simca. Ericd (talk) 12:44, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

You're right that the Matra coupes used 2.0 V8s. As for BRM involvement in the Matra V12, they did initial design work but it was cancelled when this was discovered - see Karl Ludvigsen's 'The V12 Engine' (p273) "In 1967 [Georges] Martin in turn quietly negotiated a contract to desighn much of the engine with BRM, whose V8 engines Matra had used in some of its sports racing cars. "They would contribute to the head design with ports and valve sizes", BRM's Tony Rudd said of Matra, "but we had to design camshafts, drives, tappets, etc, together with the rest of the engine." Rudd and Geoff Johnson drew on their experience with their own V12 in the layout of the Matra engine which was to have gear instead of chain drive to its camshafts. All was going well until Sir Alfred Owen..... braghgged at a British motor industry dinner that BRM was designing a Formula 1 engine for Matra. Matra were livid and in dead trouble... Pete Fenelon (talk) 21:00, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Light my fire

I added the EI info out of Super Street Cars, but I'm not sure it really qualfies as reliable. If anybody has a better source, do change it, & correct this, also. Thanks. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 08:48, 22 January 2010 (UTC)