Talk:Kinect

Earlier Demo

I feel like I saw this technology used at an earlier conference/expo. They used a racing game and a lightsaber game, and let anyone come up and play it. Anyone know anything about that? 8bit (talk) 20:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

I followed the link in reference No. 6 and it does point to a page that states the whole "natal means 'to be born' in Latin" thing, but to my knowledge, it is not like that... It's simpler: "natal" means "Christmas" in Portuguese (language spoken in Brazil, where the project incubator is from)... the latin word for "to be born" is "nascor"... I am totally sure about the portuguese/christmas part (I speak portuguese), but not so sure about the latin part, that's why I did not change the article... Could anyone confirm it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by El changuito (talk • contribs) 14:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and generalized the statement a bit so that the Latin isn't mentioned. Dancter (talk) 20:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Natal can mean Christmas or Birth, depending on context. You can say

• I was born in "natal" [the city]
• Natal [the city] is my natal [place of origin / native] city
• Natal [the holiday] is celebrated on December the 25th.

Though "natal" as in birth is more common in Latin, not in portuguese. But since the town's name is derived from Latin, the reference is correct. (I'm brazillian by the way, you can check my IP) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.115.132.140 (talk) 11:52, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe the link is that Christmas is a birthday ? Or is that too obvious? --195.137.93.171 (talk) 09:09, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

It will have been thought up by a bunch of people in marketing. They will have started with loads of names and narrowed it down to one after focus group testing and other stuff like that. Sorry to break the magic, but that's how it happens in big corporations these days. - X201 (talk) 18:24, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Shigeru Miyamoto on Natal

I was reading a post on Wired.com and Miyamoto's opinion about how it would be difficult for someone to create an experience that feels interactive without holding a controller. http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/shigeru-miyamoto-interview/

Is this something notable enough to be included in this article?

99.227.179.197 (talk) 16:33, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Not on its own. It wouldn't be appropriate to cover reactions before better establishing what was presented. I haven't focused on that aspect, but it'd probably be a good idea to establish an "Announcement" section including things like Steven Spielberg, de facto mascot Kudo Tsunoda, and the E3 celebrity demos. We can then fill in things like industry reactions, web interest statistics, and mainstream attention such as in The Colbert Report and Late Night with Jimmy Fallon. Dancter (talk) 17:12, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I feel it will soon be time to add a pre-release reception/reaction to the page. IGN recently published their in-depth "close and personnel" experience using Project Natal which could form a basis to a reception/reaction section of the article. .IGN's article can be found here--LostOverThere (talk) 07:45, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

It's not about when the right time is. Any time would've been good, so long as the coverage was fair and informative. My opposition was to floating sensationalistic bits like Miyamoto's comments in isolation. I would rather that reactions be covered in a history, rather than as a dedicated "reception" section, which would just encourage editors to promote their own views by selectively citing pieces that align with their opinions. Dancter (talk) 20:30, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Frame rate of 30 Hertz

The sensor is described in the article of being capable of capturing motion at a frame rate of only 30 Hertz. Two links are given as citation to that claim, but i have followed both links and i cannot find any mention of that figure. Could someone please address this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.59.123.220 (talk) 03:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I added a quotation to clarify. A "frame rate of 30 hertz" here means the same thing as "30 frames per second." Dancter (talk) 04:41, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Bill Gates about release of Natal

Bill Gates in his interview to cnet.com mentioned the release date of Natal: "in a little over a year". I think this link should be added to other links for the release date info.

[1]

--StepanYanch (talk) 03:07, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

The article already says "it is expected to be released in late 2010" which would be "in a little over a year". -Zomic13 (talk) 04:07, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I mean the link of Bill Gates talking to Cnet should be added to links [4],[5],[6],[7],[8]. Because these links [4]-[8] are all about Ballmer talking. And Bill Gates' quote is another semi-official source of information which is worth mentioning. --StepanYanch (talk) 14:32, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

From what I recall about the articles, only one of those links are about statements from Ballmer. Dancter (talk) 15:27, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Release and price

It is now expected to be released in November 2010 and to cost 30-50 pounds which is equivalent to about 46 to 77 dollars. There is a date on amazon that says November 1, 2010 Ajpri (talk) 16:27, 11 April 2010 (UTC) I don't see this reflected on the page. I'd do it myself, but I can't see past all the brackets and wiki-coding. If anyone would be so kind. 92.39.189.2 (talk) 17:11, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

It is quoted in reference footnote 4. I don't want to overstate what is still best considered a rumor, so I'd be opposed to any emphasis on November, but perhaps some mention of price range could be included in-text, using both the MCV source and quotes such as Michael Pachter prediction at IndustryGamers. Dancter (talk) 17:31, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Although, I think it was reported that Microsoft reps said something along the lines on the UK developer's tour, presumably to drum up launch titles, which now number at 14 games. It didn't look like a rumour to me, but whatever.92.39.189.2 (talk) 17:43, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Amazon has it listed at $149.99 available for pre-order. Amazon doesnt list a pre-order price unless it the confirmed MSRP or less, in this case, it shouldnt be less. Also, amazon does not raise the pre-order price, only lowers it, and I doubt they would take that big of a chance of losing money by putting out an unconfirmed price. Its not enough to say the confirmed price, but it should be enough to drop the rest of the price ranges from the article.

huh?

Can someone translate this into English, and fix it? "As of September 2009[update], publishers actively working on games for Project Natal account for over 70 percent of third-party software sales for the current generation of video game consoles" -24.130.65.122 (talk) 19:12, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Hmmmm. The referenced page basically says: "Some games publishers not affiliated with Microsoft are also working on a few Kinect titles, here's a list of about a dozen big names who account for more than two thirds of the whole group. These guys released loads of games for all console platforms and some well-known franchises, so you should know who they are."

It looks like some clever marketeering in the source article to give an impression that ~70% of future games will be for Kinect, but actually means ~70% of third-party publishers who (as per usual) are currently working on multiplatform console titles will eventually put something out on Kinect. It's convenient to omit that while Kinect implies console title, console title does not always imply Kinect. :)

In my opinion that section would be much improved by ditching the marketing bumph and simply stating the facts: "Third-party publishers confirmed by Microsoft to be working on future Kinect titles include Activision Blizzard, Bethesda Softworks, CAPCOM, Disney Interactive, Electronic Arts, Konami, MTV Games, Namco Bandai, Sega, Square Enix, THQ Inc. and Ubisoft." In fact, I'll do that just now if nobody minds. Cheers! Tomfin (talk) 15:43, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Clean this crap up

Why are there so many references that reference the same line? There are multiple occurences of double, triple, even quadruple referencing on this page. That is completely unnecessary. Can someone take the time to clean this up? --Xander756 (talk) 06:02, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Smallville

This was in the previous episode of Smallville shown last weekend (aired Friday 12th Feb). The characters never mentioned it by name, but they did mention 'xbox 360' which was visible and when the camera reversed you could clearly see the sensor bar in front of the tv. I am unsure what game they were playing though. This is the first product placement I have seen of it so far. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.149.178.213 (talk) 14:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I went and watched it on the CW's website, and the game they are playing is the game Ricochet that is mentioned in this article. You can find a demo of it here. I have no idea whether it is worthy of including or not; I just created an account a few minutes ago to verify this claim when I saw it. ArchaicTravail (talk) 08:15, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from BassManNV, 8 April 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} I am using a registered account and it won't let me edit it.

BassManNV (talk) 19:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

 Done at this.  fetchcomms☛ 21:25, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

{done}} - It seems like someone was interchanging between the IPs: 204.174.206.186, 204.174.206.189, 204.174.206.190, 204.174.206.191 and 204.174.206.194, which rendered Minimac's Clone's use of rollback useless as it only rolled back 1 of the 3 vandal edits. A rangeblock on the range 204.174.206.128/25 should suffice, but the page is already semiprotected. I've gone through the history and am giving it the "clean bill of health", should be vandal free now. Thanks. Set Sail For The Seven Seas 326° 33' 0" NET 21:46, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Pre-E3 2010 Event

March 25 what year? Does anyone know that?

Why is "Nintendo rejection" necessary?

The section Nintendo rejection seems out of place and unnecessary, as a competitor's commentary on a product doesn't seem notable as an inclusion in the article for that product. Additionally, the section claims that 3DV demoed tech for Iwata, while the "Sensor" section states that PrimeSense, not 3DV, is responsible for the tech in Natal, meaning that what was demoed was not Natal, as the unnamed source claimed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevnt (talk • contribs) 09:21, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Zcam

Hi, how should i read that ? Alex from MS said its not? , MS bought the Zcam which is a time-of-flight camera, and now its supposed to work on modulated thin air or so ? Mion (talk) 09:29, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Project Natal does not use any technology from 3DV Systems. This is well discussed in many web articles (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/e3-natal-not-derived-from-3dv). Microsoft only bought 3DV for their IP which may or may not be used in future products. Project Natal itself is based on technology made by PrimeSense which is NOT a time of flight camera. They are using a system called "LightCoding". (see http://www.slashgear.com/primesense-confirmed-as-project-natal-hardware-source-3179868/). You are also welcome to read more information in: http://www.primesense.com/ --84.110.1.155 (talk) 08:23, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Besides the media marketing buzz, primesense is only delivering the incoming sensor technology, prbl, the skeleton point and gesture software as they did for the Zcam, and you can give it different patented names as well (ranging camera, flash lidar, time-of-flight (ToF) camera, RGB-D camera or IR projected-light stereo, the basics of the technology don't change, or do you still think its modulated thin air tech ?. Mion (talk) 12:25, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Please do some research before continuing to comment about this subject. PrimeSense are delivering the ENTIRE 3d capturing solution, not just the incoming sensor. (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-primesense-article?page=2). Also, PrimeSense technology is not based on Time of Flight at all! You can find lots of info in their patent applications if you wish. In short, they are using a highly modified "structured light" approach, which means that a pattern is projected and when it's seen back by a regular CMOS, they are able to decode each pixel depth value by measuring the distortion of the pattern. This is completely different approach then time of flight / modulation / etc. I agree with you about the software part (skeleton mapping / gestures / ...) and that part indeed seems to be developed in-house within Microsoft, but there isn't much info about it yet so it's difficult to know... --84.110.2.241 (talk) 15:29, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

I dont buy it, primesense is only doing a marketing boost, Structured-light 3D scanners require to much power. Anyway, it seems we have to wait until the first items hit the store (or maybe an employee forgets one in the pub). Mion (talk) 17:06, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

As I've tried to explain, they are not using classic structured light but a highly modified and efficient variation of it. You'll have to trust me on this one since I did spent some time personally with their (PrimeSense) technology. Please feel free to read their patents to gain more insight into this topic. Anyway, until it comes out this will indeed remain a mystery for the public but there are two facts that have been confirmed by multiple sources from Microsoft 1) The device is NOT based on TOF or anything similar to a TOF system (said by Alex Kipman, the project leader!). 2) None of 3DV technology made it into the device (said by Aaron Greenberg, the product manager for Project Natal). See my above links for FACTS about these topics. And until you have any *FACTS* and not personal guesses about this subject, please stop adding any references to TOF into the article. --84.110.101.117 (talk) 20:52, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Up to this point, anything about the tech other than what has been quoted by members of the team should be treated as speculation. No offense "84.110.101.117", but we have no way of knowing how reliable a source you are, so we can't "trust you on this one". That said, none of the speculation should go into the article without some heavy disclaimer-like accompaniment, along the lines of "It has been speculated that -tech- may be involved after Microsoft's purchase of -company-" and then only if it can be proven that it is speculated by some-one in the industry (without that last bit anyone would be able to add anything with a speculation disclaimer since they speculated it). Alphathon^TM (talk) 21:05, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more, and I never expected you to "trust me" of course, all I wanted is that this article would stick to facts from team members and not to speculations: 1. The device is based on PrimeSense technology and they are the SOLE supplier of 3d sensing for natal, 2. The device is not a TOF camera, 3. The device doesn't contain any 3DV tech. P.S. Finally made me a proper user! no more 80.xx.xx.xx IP. --MrZapper (talk) 12:28, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Kinect compatible games

This section will be very rumor susceptible so keep it clean. I found no reference to any control scheme of MGS Rising so that was removed. 174.25.228.174 (talk) 19:14, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Required Kinect Processing Power and Skeletal Map

I just wish to point out the following I'll leave it up to the experts to decide.

The article cites Alex Kippman telling new scientest in January that Kinect would use 10-15% of the CPU. It might have been a safe answer to an unexpected question. A professional programmer from Ubisoft has been quoted as saying the current iteration of the Kinect Software platform uses 1% of the Xbox CPU's capacity. Kinect uses 'less than 1%' of 360 CPU

Also the article claims the extraction of 20 skeletal points at one point and then 48 at another. I think Kinect has a 20 point skeletal map with 48 movement references. Kinect Specs Show Two-Player Limitation? Everyone seems to be citing Kinect including Kinect: Adventures!

ZLoserKing (talk) 11:59, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Predecessor

I wouldn't exactly call Xbox Live Vision Kinect's predecessor as Xbox Live Vision couldn't be used as a controller. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.119.1 (talk) 19:59, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I can't say I disagree, although an argument could be made that it is the predecessor in terms of video chat devices. I don't think that's really enough, but that's just my opinion. Alphathon^TM (talk) 20:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Like Alphathon said, you could call Kinect Xbox Live Vision's successor as it can be used for video chat. But also in fact, just had a look at the Visions wikipedia page and it seems there are some games that can use the camera as a controller. So I think that the term predecessor is justified. Complete Prat (talk) 20:37, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I saw this for sale at gamestop yesterday!

At the gamestop in the cape cod mall. I thought it wasn't out yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.72.87 (talk) 20:50, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

It's not AFAIK (not due until November). Probably just boxes to encourage pre-orders - there's no way they'd be shipping them to retailers 3 months early, not in bulk anyway (maybe as individual display/trial models). Alphathon^TM (talk) 21:14, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

It needs a reception section

nuff said --Arathun (talk) 16:53, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Something tells me Microsoft is keeping this page clean. Serendi^podous 09:40, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I think it's more a case of there being no reviews for it yet. Until there are, it's kinda hard for there to be a reception section. The closest that's out there (AFAIK) is first impressions from E3 and such, which aren't really concrete enough to base a section around, although they could be used to lead it. Anyway if MS were "keeping this page clean", whoever was doing it for them would simply be reverted for NNPOV unless they were very clever about how they did it. However, removing a reception section is kinda obvious unless there is some other major issue with it such as it in itself being NNPOV (in which case its removal would probably be appropriate). Alphathon™ (talk) 10:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Should something be included about recent news on how Kinect is racist since it apparently thinks all black people look alike? all white people look alike, they all are white. they do have that one thing in common. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.255.145.117 (talk) 07:00, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Bounty offered for open-source Kinect driver

• Bounty offered for open-source Kinect driver —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.237.154.43 (talk) 02:58, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

System requirements

it is stated that all 360's can use Kinect, while it also states you need 190 MB of space. does Kinect work with a Core 360?