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November 5

Verbs in French

Hi. Do French verbs have both formal and informal (similar to Spanish) in the second person, or is there only one second person form? Regards, Lexicografía (talk) 01:01, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

French does make the T–V_distinction. ---Sluzzelin talk 02:21, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

However, it only does it in the singular, whereas Spanish (in at least some countries) does it in the plural as well. In French the formal singular is the same as the plural. For example, "You are" is "tu es" (informal singular) or "vous êtes" (formal and/or plural). The two forms are derived from the original Latin second person singular and plural. --Anonymous, 03:51 UTC, November 5, 2010.

Just a little trouvaille from the article:"Tu can also be used to show disrespect to a stranger, such as when surprising a thief or cursing other drivers on the road." ---Sluzzelin talk 03:55, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, "foutrez vous" doesn't sound quite right, does it? --Jayron32 05:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC) [reply]

For sure (though someone once did say "Vous êtes con" to me). What threw me off was the bit about surprising a thief. Hasn't happened all that often in my life, as opposed to swearing at drivers :-) ---Sluzzelin talk 15:55, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In the Paris riots in 2005, the main grievance was cited as: 'they (second-generation immigrant youths) want police to stop insulting them with use of the familiar form for you: "tu".'[1]. Still, the French love a good riot, even more than us Brits. Alansplodge (talk) 16:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Lexicografía (talk) 12:08, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why doesn't Google's translator have an option to translate Austrian into English?

--75.33.217.61 (talk) 22:03, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because German is the official language in Austria. --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:07, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

see Languages of Austria (there is no austrian language)Sf5xeplus (talk) 08:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ureter

How do you say ureter in Latin? And internal sphincter muscle of urethra in German (Austrian :-) )? --151.51.29.169 (talk) 22:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Probably Galen or another ancient anatomist knew of the ureter, but knowledge of anatomy was much more limited in ancient times, and I doubt that there was a standard term meaning "ureter" in Latin. An author wishing to refer the ureter might use a descriptive phrase such as canalis de rene ad vesicam. As for the German term for the internal sphincter of the urethra, German tends to use Neo-Latin terms for muscles. In this case, the term would be musculus sphincter vesicae. Marco polo (talk) 00:02, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ureter comes right from Greek (well, through Latin), and Galen did know of it, according to Liddell and Scott. Earlier authors (I don't know whose those abbreviations refer to) use "ureter" and "urethra" interchangeably. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:36, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to this source, the term ureter comes from ancient Greek but was not incorporated into Latin with its modern meaning until early modern times. Marco polo (talk) 08:18, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that seems likely. According to Lewis and Short, "urethra" was borrowed into Latin, but they (well, Celsus, at least) used the phrase "iter urinae". Adam Bishop (talk) 13:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 6

–st

While, whilst; among, amongst; unknown, unbeknownst. Is there a difference in meaning in these pairs, or only an ocean? —Tamfang (talk) 06:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On the American side of the ocean, the -st forms are simply not much in use; there is no difference in meaning for Americans. Marco polo (talk) 08:20, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We have an article about while and whilst. We don't have an article about the difference between among and amongst, even though the difference in usage (in Britain) is more pronounced: "amongst" is often used to imply dispersion.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:51, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Think "unbeknownst" is a little literary/archaic/affected on both sides of the Atlantic, with no marked cross-pondal difference. The word reminds me of the title scroll to Spaceballs: "Unbeknownst to the princess, but knownst to us...". AnonMoos (talk) 13:04, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that unbeknownst is more common in the United States than unbeknown, and I agree with AnonMoos that it is only used in a lofty register, at least in the United States. However, this is the only one of the -st forms that is more common than its suffixless counterpart in the United States. In the United States, you rarely encounter amongst or whilst except among transplants from Britain (and maybe other Commonwealth countries except for Canada). Marco polo (talk) 15:10, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've been doing my darndest to eradicate the abominable words 'whilst' and 'amongst' from Wikipedia for years now, and I will be continuing on my glorious quest. They're often used by people whose talk page language leaves something to be desired, which leads me to conclude that they believe these words are the written or formal counterparts of the colloquial words 'while' and 'among'. There's no such rule. 'While' and 'among' are just dandy even in the most formal of registers. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:43, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst I have no wish to defend usages that seem offensive or pretentious to our American and Australian cousins, I shall continue to use "whilst" whenever I consider it conveys a shade of meaning not contained in "while". If it was good enough for Shakespeare, Middleton and Thackeray, then I don't see why the word should be banned. I shall avoid using it in Wikipedia articles, however, since I don't wish to create any extra work for Jack, and I don't like edit wars. Dbfirs 22:23, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your concern for my welfare, Dbfirs, I do appreciate it. But tell me, what's the shade of meaning in "Whilst I have no wish to defend usages ..." that isn't there in "While I have no wish to defend usages ..."? I honestly cannot see any difference in meaning whatsoever. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:30, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Probably very little, to be honest, but it is conventional to use "whilst" for this sort of contrast in my regional variety of English. I've read the criticisms, but it just sounds more natural and clearer to me. I'm wondering whether it is just a leftover from the usage that was common a few hundred years ago (from the King James Bible to the authors above), or whether it is a reaction to the (mis)-use of "while" to mean "until" in a small area of England south of where I live. Dbfirs 00:02, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But what is "this sort of contrast"? Between what and what? —Tamfang (talk) 01:50, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jack, I know we've discussed this before. While your dialect considers whilst pretentious, and many American dialects do too, it is a normal, everyday, load-bearing word in British English. See this pleasant source. As such, if you must remove it from American and Australian-themed articles, I won't be kicking up a fuss, but there's no need to impose your aversions on British-themed articles, nor read your own dialect's registers into the words of people speaking another. 86.166.42.171 (talk) 00:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the interesting link. I'm glad I'm not alone. To me "while" just means "during the time that" when used at the start of a sentence, whereas "whilst" indicates a contrast between the juxtaposed situations. Like all prescriptivists (including Jack, most Americans, and Australian Pam Peters whose stated agenda is language reform), I tend to want to impose my usage on all other speakers of the language, but I'm gradually learning that the English language is surprisingly diverse, and once-common usages, considered obsolete by most, will often still be in regular use in some (perhaps remote) part of the English-speaking world. Like most Americans, I would consider "whilst" to sound slightly pretentious when used to mean just "during the time that", but substantial such usage in older literature (I can easily give you a dozen citations) would indicate that it can hardly be considered "wrong", just "dated". Dbfirs 07:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst is one of those words that comes naturally to some editors, but they never really need it, whereas it's jarring to readers from other parts of the world. I think there's a list of such words somewhere. One I hadn't realized, that goes in the other direction, is overly — it's a word I personally find natural and useful, but I see no need to use it in WP articles (even ones with strong American national ties), given that it's apparently jarring to British readers, and is easily replaced with something like excessively. --Trovatore (talk) 07:38, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree that, in Wikipedia articles, there are many words best avoided to ensure easy readability for an international readership. Most of Jack's "adverbesque words" ( see above) are also best avoided since they usually convey the opinion of the writer. Dbfirs 08:35, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dbfirs, I'm tempted to suspend my wikibreak in order to deny I'm a prescriptivist, as evidence of such things can be misleading. But it's not that important. :) -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:29, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the insult, but you were campaigning to remove a word from the language! There are some words that I would like to remove, but not this one. Neither of us is Thomas Bowdler. Dbfirs 21:13, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Crimson and Clover

In the song Crimson and Clover, the title phrase is repeated several times. I can't make sense of the phrase in the context of the lyrics. Does it have any real meaning? --173.49.17.239 (talk) 12:23, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to the article Crimson and Clover, no, there's no real meaning, the words just fit there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 13:33, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Greek or Latin for database

what would they have called it? (or is a clever use of another Greek or Latin prefix or suffix that would get people to think of a database?) 84.153.222.232 (talk) 13:02, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would not be "Database", which combines a neuter plural Latin form and a Greek form in a manner unknown to classical compounding. A word which appears in dictionaries of ancient Greek is Γνωμολογια. You could coin something with Θησαυρος as the second element, but I'm not sure what the first element would be. Modern Greek seems to use Βάση δεδομένων... AnonMoos (talk) 13:41, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There are lots of neo-Latin computer terms. Here is a list of "vocabula computatralia", which has "datorum ordinatrum", simple "data", and "plicae datorum". Many years ago when we were setting up the Latin Wikipedia, I attempted to translate MediaWiki code into Latin, and I think I may have invented "basis dati" and "basis datorum", but I don't know if those translations are still in there. (I hope not, because that's terrible.) Adam Bishop (talk) 13:45, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

anchor off, anchored off

Hello does "anchor off" actually mean the ship stays or leaves? thanks for help --Avoided (talk) 14:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As in "anchored off the coast" of something? That means the ship stays there. Think of it as "anchored, off the coast". Adam Bishop (talk) 15:27, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Glossary of nautical terms has several expressions with anchor, but not that one at this time.

—Wavelength (talk) 15:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because I'm working on José María Narváez to translate it for the german wiki, and wasn't certain with this. thanks so far --Avoided (talk) 15:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase in that article is, "While at anchor off Point Grey..."

"at anchor" means the ship is anchored, ie. stationary
"off Point Grey" means near Point Grey

WikiDao ☯ (talk) 16:32, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because if you anchored AT Point Grey, you'd get stuck on the rocks ;-) Alansplodge (talk) 18:25, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

When I gave my first reply, I had not considered the context (permanent link here), whose parse tree indicates that "off" is more closely associated with "Point Grey" than with "anchor" and "anchored".

—Wavelength (talk) 20:57, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding South Indian Dravidian Langauges.

Hi Wikipedia Team,

I was going to the information avilable on varoius links of Wikipedia where it has mentioned that Tamil is oldest of the Dravidian Language based on evidence dating back to 300 BC. If going my centuries or dates. Then I think Kannada should be mentioned as oldest language of the Dravidian language. I have even read saying some(2) of the alphabets in Tamil have been taken from Kannada Language.

In the following link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_history_of_India and varoius other links related to Kannada only mentions about the Brahmagiri edict. I think itself is sufficient evidence to mention Kannada has the oldest language.

The first written record in the Kannada language is traced to Emperor Ashoka's Brahmagiri edict dated 230 BC.[6][15] The first example of a full-length Kannada language stone inscription (shilashaasana) containing Brahmi characters with characteristics attributed to those of protokannada in Hale Kannada (Old Kannada) script can be found in the Halmidi inscription, dated c. 450, indicating that Kannada had become an administrative language by this time.[16][17][18] Over 30,000 inscriptions written in the Kannada language have been discovered so far.[19] The Chikkamagaluru inscription of 500 AD is another example.[20][21] Prior to the Halmidi inscription, there is an abundance of inscriptions containing Kannada words, phrases and sentences, proving its antiquity. The 543 AD Badami cliff shilashaasana of Pulakesi I is an example of a Sanskrit inscription in Hale Kannada script.[22][23]

Tamil is having one of the oldest literature amongst world languages, with epigraphic attestation dating to the 300 BC.

Literary works in India or Sri Lanka were preserved either in palm leaf manuscripts (implying repeated copying and recopying) or through oral transmission, making direct dating impossible. External chronological records and internal linguistic evidence, however, indicates that the oldest extant works were probably composed sometime between the 3rd century BC and the 2nd century AD.

So I request wikipedia team , If your team find that above infromation is right. Then please update the same in relavant information in your database related to Dravidian languages and related to Kannada/Karnataka.

The references for the same are avialable in below links,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmagiri_archaeological_site

Ghosh, Amalananda (1990) [1990]. An Encyclopaedia of Indian Archaeology. BRILL. ISBN 9004092625. Kennedy, Kenneth A. R. (2000) [2000]. God-Apes and Fossil Men: Paleoanthropology of South Asia. University of Michigan Press. ISBN 0472110136. Peter Neal Peregrine, Melvin Ember, Human Relations Area Files Inc. (2001) [2001]. Encyclopedia of Prehistory. Springer. ISBN 0306462621. Kipfer, Barbara Ann (2000) [2000]. Encyclopedic Dictionary of Archaeology. Springer. ISBN 0306461587. Ian Shaw, Robert Jameson (1999) [1999]. A Dictionary of Archaeology. Blackwell Publishing. ISBN 0631235833. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sravindra s (talk • contribs) 18:36, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the World's Ancient Languages edited by Roger D. Woodard (2004) ISBN 0-521-56256-2, intends to cover all languages sufficiently attested by 500 A.D., and includes Old Tamil but not Kannada. AnonMoos (talk) 21:03, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The tree diagram in our article on Dravidian languages shows Tamil and Kannada having a common root and diverging at around the same time. Because languages evolve gradually, it is very difficult to determine which modern language is "oldest", but there seems to be better evidence of early Tamil than of early Kannada. Your own dates also seems to suggest this. Dbfirs 22:08, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sravindra, there isn't a Wikipedia team (or rather, there is a team of millions, including you) and we haven't got a database. What we have is articles, which anybody is encouraged to improve if they can. On the subject of your question, I don't know which articles you are talking about, but note that if they claim that "Tamil is the oldest of the Dravidian languages" then they should be removed but not replaced with an alternative claim, as this is not a matter whose truth can be ascertained. If on the other hand they are talking about something like "the oldest surviving literature" or "the earliest known examples", then these are factual claims which you can certainly correct if you have references with updated information. --ColinFine (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 7

Term for coincidental repeated appearance of a word

I'm trying to find the term for the coincidental recurring appearance of a particular word or concept. Annoyingly enough, I was looking up déjà, jamais, and presque vu, and related phenomena, when this question occurred to me, but I'm sure I'm not just falling prey to a cognitive illusion; this term exists, at least informally, I am positive! My search-and-wiki-fu has failed me; can anyone help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.229.125 (talk) 06:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Try Apophenia. The tendency to imagine patterns in random events is called apophenia. --Jayron32 06:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your reply; there's lots of general terms that cover related ground -- obviously, it's like some form of priming or clustering or synchronicity illusion -- but I'm really looking for a very specific term for this particular phenomenon. I don't know, perhaps it's something I've only seen or read somewhere in sci-fi, or dreamed up myself.76.69.229.125 (talk) 07:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Baader-Meinhof phenomenon [2][3] Mitch Ames (talk) 07:06, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Eventuated?

I came across this word in Merchant submarine#Soviet Union, but is it actually a word in English? Astronaut (talk) 10:47, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. The OED has cites back to 1789. It also notes "First used in U.S., and still regarded as an Americanism, though it has been employed by good writers in England." Algebraist 10:51, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See http://www.onelook.com/?w=eventuate&ls=a. -- Wavelength (talk) 15:32, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It eventuated that I replaced the word. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

...eventually. —Tamfang (talk) 00:22, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Vitamin D

Under the subject. Vitamin D

Sub category Cancer, third para. last sentence. What does this mean for male smokers? I have read this sentence 10 times and looked up the meanings but still don't understand what it is trying to convey. Is vitamin D harmful to male smokers? It's not clear. It seems that something was left out of the sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.248.187.110 (talk) 17:37, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Vitamin D#Cancer — The sentence in question appears to be: However, in male smokers a 3-fold increased risk for pancreatic cancer in the highest compared to lowest quintile of serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration has been found. The structure could be improved, but the meaning seems clear to me: someone took a group of male smokers, ranked them by the concentration of a D metabolite in their blood, split them into five equal groups according to that ranking, and found three times as many pancreatic cancers in the highest-D group as in the lowest. It doesn't quite say that D is harmful for male smokers; their 25-HO-D concentration could be high for some reason other than their diet. —Tamfang (talk) 19:03, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, apparently this study did find that high blood levels of vitamin D actually were found to increase the risk of pancreatic cancer in male smokers in Finland. This is surprising, since so many studies of late have found quite the opposite relationship in the general population, not only for cancer but for many other diseases as well. This site: http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/66/20/9802.full offers some information on the study and a few suggestions for the reasons of the findings. Gandydancer (talk) 19:26, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just as an aside, you always have to be careful with regional studies. seemingly insignificant differences in culturally-specific behavior can have significant statistical impacts. I remember reading about contradictory research which showed that heavy coffee consumption led to higher rates of heart disease in Europe but lower rates in the US - the difference turned out to be that US drinkers used paper filters which absorbed the natural fats in the coffee beans. fascinating stuff, if you share my geekdom. --Ludwigs2 20:02, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So what are European filters made of? Dismas|^(talk) 12:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wire mesh, I think. Marco polo (talk) 17:21, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Filter coffee:Cafetiere 86.166.42.171 (talk) 20:29, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 8

Confused by grammatical terms

I used to think that terms like "noun phrase", "verb phrase", etc. were defined in terms of their functions in a sentence. When I looked up their Wikipedia entries, they were explained as defined in terms of their heads. It seems to me that these terms and similar ones are defined syntactically, based on their structures rather than their functions.

Is the concept of a head universal among different types of grammars and schools of thought? Is it a term that's used only in some types of grammar?
What are the grammatical terms for phrases that function as

a noun?
a verb (say a verb together with its auxiliaries and modifiers, but not including any objects and complements)?
an adjective?
an adverb?

I may have misunderstood something. If so, please point out my mistakes and help unconfuse me. Thanks. --173.49.78.4 (talk) 12:49, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Many "modifiers" of verbs are actually often considered to be less closely bound to the verb than a direct object... AnonMoos (talk) 16:35, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think that some concept of a 'head' will be found in pretty well all grammatical theories (for example to capture the generalisation that some languages have predominantly "modifier-head" order, and others predominantly "head-modifier". But the precise meaning of "head" may well vary from theory to theory. One of the prevalent theories is X-bar theory, which sees many functionally different structures (verb phrase, noun phrase etc) as all having the same fundamental pattern of Head/Specifier/Adjunct.

I don't quite understand your second question. "Noun", "Verb" etc are in most theories used to refer to (functional) classes of words, not phrases. When you talk of "a phrase that functions as a noun", I suppose you mean an NP, which might be realised as an N (noun word) or a N' (noun plus determiner) or NP (noun, plus adjunct and possibly determiner). --ColinFine (talk) 08:54, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the OP. In my second question, maybe it would be clearer if I had said "function like" instead of "function as". The Wikipedia article on noun phrase defines it as a phrase with a noun as the head, so a noun phrase seems to have to contain a word in the word class of nouns. However, some noun-like phrases are gerundive (e.g. "running five miles a day"), while some others are adjectival nouns (e.g. "the elderly"). I was wondering what the correct term is for phrases that function like a noun, regardless of whether they are constructed by adding modifiers to a noun.

It seems that in general, a structurally-defined "X phrase" may not function like a word of class X. Take the preposition phrases as an example, most of the time they are adverbials, but they can also be post modifiers for nouns. --98.114.98.27 (talk) 13:19, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic help

How do you write the Arabic in this picture: File:Emirates_Flight_Catering.jpg

The article for Emirates Flight Catering needs to have the name in Arabic. Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 18:40, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It says "al-imiraat" then a line to separate the rest (not a letter), "li-tamwin al-ta'iraat", so in Arabic "الإمارات | لتموين الطائرات". Adam Bishop (talk) 20:04, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

new shool slang-what does this mean...?

i have 12 year old daughter who is having probs in shool.told her any questions ask me,but ran in2 probs.have looked in dictionary & here-no solutions can u tell me the meaning of what she was called it was either wren,wrem or rem?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.222.77 (talk) 18:43, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean school or shul? Wren is a bird, REM is rapid-eye movement in sleep, or a unit for measuring radiation doses. (Have no idea on "wrem".) -- AnonMoos (talk) 20:02, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The help desk post [4] said school. I guess from "wren,wrem or rem?" that the poster is guessing on spelling based on pronunciation, and it might be something other than those three. It can help to know where it is. Your IP address is registered in London. Was this in London? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:12, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From what I gathered, 90.209 's daughter was called this, and it's a slang word used among the students of that school. I don't think any of AnonMoos's suggestion are the direct answer (but here are the links to REM (disambiguation), Rapid eye movement sleep, Wren, Wren (disambiguation). WREM seems to have been a radio station and redirects to WXME). Urban dictionary, of course, has a number of similar sounding terms such as rem (short for "remedial", "an idiot - but in a good way", wren, nothing for "wrem", but also reem. Some of these meanings are quite nasty and vulgar, and I certainly don't mean to upset you or your daughter. Perhaps it would be helpful if you provided some more context (who called her that, was it meant in an affectionate way, meant to tease her, etc ...) ---Sluzzelin talk 20:16, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, 'ren' has a couple of possible meanings, some of which might be current in London secondary schools. Have you got a parents' evening coming up, or similar excuse to meet some of her teachers? Interested teachers generally keep track of current slang in their schools (I remember my language and science teachers particularly took pleasure in watching the spread of new words), and they might be able to advise. 86.166.42.171 (talk) 20:23, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Rem" was an unkind term used when I was in school, short for "remedial". I do hope that things improve for your daughter. DuncanHill (talk) 09:12, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I hope so too. Please do go to the school and ask them to make absolutely sure that your daughter isn't being bullied. You might need to speak to more than one person, for example the class teacher or form tutor, the Special Needs Co-ordinator (SENCO), the head of year, the school head or deputy head. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:48, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 9

Tip of the tongue

THere is a word I'm looking for, and it's been bothering me for close to an hour now. This word (arbitrarily denoted [A]) means something like "means" or "methods" or even "practices", but the word that goes with it is "pursue", I want ot use it in "pursue a [A]" Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.78.167 (talk) 00:16, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pursue a course? WikiDao ☯ (talk) 00:21, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That could be lots of things. You could try looking up means, method or practice in an online thesaurus and see if your word is there. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:52, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Avenue? --173.49.78.133 (talk) 01:08, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

End, goal, means, objective, would all work there.... Do you have any more clues about it? Lexicografía (talk) 01:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regime; regimen? Protocol? Hmmmm maybe not that 194.223.35.225 (talk) 13:28, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalisation

When people criticise unnecessary capitalisation, why do they often use it themsleves in their criticism? For example, "I Don't Like The Fact That These Words Are Capitalised"? jc iindyysgvxc (my contributions) 05:20, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Irony? Dismas|^(talk) 05:23, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, it's irony (which, as you may remember is just like silvery or goldy, only made of iron). Another example is the title of a recent art exhibit here, which would translate as: "art exhibit with an unnecessarily long title, consisting of ten words". TomorrowTime (talk) 08:06, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say there are two possible reasons. (1) Illustrating the sort of thing you did, instead of boringly quoting it. (2) Demonstrating how ugly it looks, by carrying it to extremes. And quite possibly both of those. --Anonymous, 09:35 UTC, November 9, 2010.

There's a whole website devoted to How To Write Badly Well... AnonMoos (talk) 12:48, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See Muphry's law and Fumblerules. -- Wavelength (talk) 16:21, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

movie playlist - what is the word

If a collection of songs is a playlist, what is a collection of movies? What word are people using? Has the meaning of playlist expanded these days? Thanks. --67.22.236.140 (talk) 14:15, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Youtube uses "playlist" for user-compiled lists of videos. It seems perfectly fine to me to use the word for movies as well as songs - the word itself doesn't say anything about the type of media being played -- Ferkelparade π 14:46, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if it could be used to refer to a list of games to be played, or indeed to a list of plays to be performed. —Angr (talk) 17:21, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

bussiness communication

to write an unsolicited letter to the HR manager of the company seeking job in the area of specialization you have done. along with a profile of one page about yourself —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.96.174.124 (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The relevant article for you is Cover letter. --Zerozal (talk) 16:03, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You might also find this webpage helpful. Note that for such a letter things like correct grammar, spelling and punctuation will be extremely important, none of which are particularly in evidence in your post. I know this place is informal but it's good to get into good writing habits. --Viennese Waltz 16:13, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 10

radar

what word discribes a word that can be speled backward and forward with the same result? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.27.165.15 (talk) 00:07, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Palindrome. Algebraist 00:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A palidrome may also be a whole phrase - 'rats live on no evil star' - and complete sentences like the one attributed to Napoleon, "Able was I ere I saw Elba". Gurumaister (talk) 13:34, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Napoleon bit is a joke, right? Rimush (talk) 20:40, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, especially since in French, it isn't a palindrome. --Jayron32 20:54, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bilingualism in the world

What percentage of the world's population have proficiency in at least one language the equal of or better than someone who has studied that language at one year in a rigorous university class? Two years? Able to converse? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.92.78.167 (talk) 01:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It would be tough to say. I would say that most of the world is able to converse in multiple languages, pursuant to how you would define "language" and "proficiency". In countries with a highly educated population, formal second language study is a common requirement for most education programs. In places that have lots of little areas where different languages are spoken, most people know their home language and a lingua franca to converse with others in nearby villages that speak something different. I would actually speculate that the latter group is more likely to be proficient in multiple languages than the former, if only because in places like America and Japan, one doesn't get as much cause to use one's second language as in places like Indonesia, where there are literally hundreds of different native languages, and people need to know the lingua franca on top of their own language. --Jayron32 16:38, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Our article Multilingualism is peppered with "citation needed" and other tags, but may have useful information for the OP anyway. —Angr (talk) 17:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Jayron. It's going to be hard to find a specific number (or you might find lots of specific numbers, depending on people measure this, and it will be hard to find any two that agree), but there is a wide consensus that most of the world is multilingual. Books or websites about sociolinguistics, language contact, bilingualism, etc., can probably attest to this if you want more information. rʨanaɢ (talk) 18:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Monolingual countries are actually a small minority of the total. Roger (talk) 18:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What is a monolingual country? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:43, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A country where only one language is spoken. There aren't many. Roger (talk) 19:32, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That not much of an enlightenment. Strictly interpreted, I suspect you can strike the "m" in "many". Certainly every country I'm in is not monolingual in that sense. More relevant is if more than one language has some kind of official status, or if significant parts of the population have different native languages. Italy has at least Italian and German. Germany has German, but has 4 recognized minority languages. Spain has Spanish/Castilian, but also a number of recognized minority languages. I'd suspect that Iceland is monolingual in a legal sense (although a large part of the population will be at least bilingual with English). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 15:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That depends on your definition of "bilingual", as does this entire thread, I guess. Laypeople often use "bilingual" to mean "able to speak two languages with a fair degree of fluency", while linguists use it to mean "having native speaker competence in two languages". There are bound to be some people in Iceland who are bilingual_linguists in Icelandic and English, but certainly not a large part of the population. —Angr (talk) 15:42, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree that most people can speak a second language at the level that would be attained after a year of rigorous university study. Very few of the 900 million native speakers of Mandarin Chinese speak anything else. Relatively few of the 400 million or so native speakers of English have much proficiency in a second language. Likewise native speakers of Khariboli Hindi, Bengali, Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Japanese, Korean, Turkish, Farsi, and the majority languages of mainland Southeast Asian countries. Probably a majority of native speakers of many other European and South Asian languages, such as French, Serbo-Croatian, Polish, Romanian, Telugu, Sinhala, and Tamil, have no second-language abilities or only the most rudimentary second-language abilities, allowing them to get by minimally as tourists or with visiting outsiders. Adding these people up, you get a total of more than half of the world's population. Marco polo (talk) 20:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comparing to time in a "rigorous university class" is a rather bad measurement. In most of the parts of the world where the majority is bilingual, the second language is learned with less intensity over a longer time, and in a far less formal setting. Second languages are most obtained through e.g. society outside a family with a different language than the majority, from a lingua franca of the community absorbed e.g. through media, or through classes in primary or secondary school. Learning a language at university level is the unusual thing, and it is usually those who have learned languages that way that are compared to those who have absorbed it more naturally, rather than the other way around. I'm not saying that it isn't possible to compare to university students, just that it isn't a very good measure. /Coffeeshivers (talk) 22:06, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless, my point stands based on the argument above that a majority of the world's population is almost certainly unable to communicate, beyond a few token words and phrases, in any language other than their native language. It doesn't matter that these people live in countries where other languages are spoken, since they speak the majority language in their country or (in the case of India) in a large region beyond which few but the elite ever travel. Marco polo (talk) 23:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Marco Polo: where do you get those factoids? Actually very many Mandarin speakers in the PRC are multilingual (or at least multidialectal) in Standard Mandarin and the local language wherever they are. Likewise, many people in Spain are also at least somewhat proficient in Catalan or Galician (if they live in those areas). Most French people study one or two other languages in secondary school.rʨanaɢ (talk) 11 November 2010

When the majority language/lingua franca is actually your native language, there is little incentive to learn the language(s) of local minorities. And the majority language is, tautologically, the native language of most people in given country.
Now, I know little about the situation in China: I thought that Mandarin or a related dialect thereof is the native language of most population; judging on your post, that is not the case? No such user (talk) 07:42, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if it's an absolute majority in China as a whole, but certainly the majority of people southeast of a line running approximately from Suzhou to the northern tip of the border with Vietnam are native speakers of a non-Mandarin Chinese language; not to mention the native speakers of non-Chinese languages like Zhuang, Tibetan, Uyghur, Mongolian, and dozens if not hundreds of smaller ones. If nonnative speakers of Mandarin aren't the absolute majority in China, they're at least a very sizable minority. —Angr (talk) 07:58, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(Add to that that, in the PRC, anyone who's been through their 9 years of compulsory education, which is the majority of the country, has taken several years of English classes. The effectiveness of these classes varies, of course, but the point is that the majority of educated Chinese people nowadays also speak English to some extent or another. rʨanaɢ (talk) 14:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC))[reply]

What was actually the question??? If you take the OP's question literally, the answer is the percentage to the world's population of the group comprising 1. all native speakers + 2. all non-native speakers that achieved or surpassed first-year university standard. So clearly for Chinese it would be larger than for Finnish. So what? The question is so sloppily formulated we'd better ask the OP to re-formulate it before any attempts to answer. 93.172.59.179 (talk) 07:59, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And, by the way, if we understand the question literally, that is considering all the languages together, the answer is 100% LOL 93.172.59.179 (talk) 08:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation for Norman surname

Could somebody please tell me how the 12th-century Normans in England would have pronounced the surname de Neufmarché? As I wish to add it to an article, I shall need reliable sources to back up the pronunciation. Thank you.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:37, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure that in those days the name was spelt "Neufmarché" ? In 1291, the French village of Neuf-Marché in Normandy was spelt "Noef Marchié". See here [5] — AldoSyrt (talk) 21:42, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know that the spelling ch was pronounced [tʃ] (that is, like modern English ch) rather than [ʃ] as in modern French. If you want a reliable source, you might try tracking this source down in your local research library. Marco polo (talk) 23:59, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to this source and others I've seen, at some point in the Middle Ages, the sound represented by the digraph eu mutated from the diphthong [eʊ] to the monophthongs [œ] or [ø]. This source suggests that the late medieval spelling oe was an attempt to render the new monophthong. I would suspect that Anglo Norman was conservative and preserved the diphthong. (This certainly happened for the sequence eau, pronounced [ju] in beauty.) This would suggest a pronunciation something like [dəneʊfmartʃe] or even [dɘnjʊfmartʃe]. I would guess that the second and fourth syllables were stressed, but that is just a guess. Good luck with those sources. Marco polo (talk) 02:54, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

We have a bunch of articles on Old Norman, Norman language, Anglo-Norman language, and probably others...it's hard to tell how they pronounced things, since it is usually extrapolated from modern English and French pronunciations. But it's possible that they still could have pronounced "ch" as "k", as in modern Picardy. Vowels tended to be pronounced as written, so "neuf" could be "neh-oof", but maybe it was already a new vowel like the modern pronuncation. When in the twelfth-century is this from? That might also make a difference. The book Marco polo suggested is good, and there are dozens of others (I don't think anyone knows how to pronounce Anglo-Norman, but it's a popular topic anyway). There is also a multi-volume Anglo-Norman dictionary, edited by William Rothwell, which probably has some info on pronunciation. There is also a long series of publications from the yearly "Battle Conference", so if you can find those, I'm sure they discuss language. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:04, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I do have to say, though, that I'm not sure in what context it would really improve the article to include the 12th-century pronunciation, unless it's an article about the phonology of 12th-century Norman French. --Trovatore (talk) 03:09, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is all very interesting as the name de Neufmarché was Novo Mercato in Latin and became Newmarket in English. There was also a medieval unit of currency known as a mark. It appears that marché was indeed prounouned as mark rather than as the modern French mar-SHAY. I wish to thank you all for your help and advice.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

English to Spanish translation request

Hi! Commons:Template:PD-CAGov needs a translation in Spanish. Lemme see if I can find an official state translation for the law quoted in this template. If I do not find one, assume that it needs to be translated by a Wikipedian. Thank you WhisperToMe (talk) 22:28, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

COINTELPRO

I've always heard it pronounced as Coin-tel-pro. But today watched a clip of a figure within the intelligence community during that time (can't recall who) pronounce it as Co-intel-pro. Any insight? Grsz¹¹ 23:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've never heard it pronounced Coin-tel-pro. I have always heard the diaresis in the first part, co-intel-pro, since the root is Counterintelligence program. I think your perceptions on how the word is commonly pronounced are mistaken. --Jayron32 02:47, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Develop a virus

Is it proper to state that "the victim’s computer developed a virus"?Smallman12q (talk) 23:38, 10 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not unless it has attained sentience and is out to get us. In which case, it needs to get in line behind Colossus, AM, HAL, Skynet ... It's better to say it contracted a virus. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:45, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Or ...was infected with (or by) a virus. HiLo48 (talk) 02:02, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Usually it's the virus writer who develops the virus. If the computer is doing software development all by itself, please direct me to someone who can teach me woodworking or some other useful skill. --Trovatore (talk) 03:11, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just informal English-language idiom that's probably centuries old (before even biological viruses had been identified), as in "Having caught a nasty cold that was then neglected, Jane began to develop pneumonia" (Jane wasn't culturing Petri dishes in the kitchen in order to do so) or "Under the severe stress of solitary confinement, the prisoner had developed unmistakable symptoms of paranoia." ¶ On the other hand, since "development" in this context can also refer to software development, it's best to avoid this sort of ambiguous idiom when writing the Wikipedia article. Other actor/action confusions to avoid are the new (and I think awful) meaning of "reporting" to mean gathering the news rather than telling others about it; and the intransitive "presents" in the medical jargon "Patient presented with abrasions, contusions and elevated blood pressure." —— Shakescene (talk) 08:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

When we say a person "develops" a disease, this refers to the gradual transition from being well to being sick. That doesn't apply to a computer virus, so the usage is inappropriate for that reason as well. --Anonymous, 23:32 UTC, November 11, 2010.

November 11

Kurdish as Iranic language

What are the proofs that Kurdish is a Iranic(Iranian) language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.153.153 (talk) 03:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comparative method, geography...what else? What do you expect it to be? Adam Bishop (talk) 03:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Geography isn't a proof of genetic relationship; after all, Kurdish is geographically adjacent to a lot of non-Iranian languages, and even non-Indo-European languages, too. The proof is the comparative method, by which it can be shown that Kurdish developed from Proto-Iranian, which was also the ancestor of the other Iranian languages, such as Persian, Avestan, and Pashto. Zazaki is an Iranian language that's geographically close to Kurdish, but apparently not particularly closely related to it. Zazaki language#Phonological Correspondences of Zazaki and other Iranian Languages has some tables showing cognates in some Iranian languages, including Kurmanji (Northern Kurdish). —Angr (talk) 07:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's within the general Iranian language group (a subgroup of the Indo-Iranian languages, which in turn is a sub-group of the Indo-European languages), but it's not very closely related to Persian within the Iranian language group... AnonMoos (talk) 05:26, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proper translation of Chinese novel title

What would be a proper English translation for the 《大宋中興岳王傳》? It is one of the earliest Ming novels about Yue Fei. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 04:44, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am not a Chinese, but I suppose it means "The story of King Yue(of course, here, 'King' does not actually mean he was a king but is a kind of honorific) who restored the Great Song Dyansty"--Analphil (talk) 08:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with the above, except that Yue Fei was raised to the rank of nobility of Wang posthummously in 1211, which is often regarded as equivalent to the Western title of "king", being second in rank only to the Emperor (just as a European king is subservient to the Emperor of Rome). --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"The Story of King Yue of the Resurgent Song Dynasty"71.167.144.217 (talk) 03:31, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Eponymous

In the article Lost (TV series) I saw the following sentence: "After the episode "Numbers" aired on March 2, 2005, numerous people used the eponymous figures (4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42) as lottery entries." Is this correct English? After all, nobody actually named these numbers after somebody or something, just used the same combination... 109.186.121.71 (talk) 07:04, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Think it's just a fancy way of saying that the episode title was named after the numbers... AnonMoos (talk) 07:12, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, it would be "eponymous episode" then, not "eponymous figures" 93.172.59.179 (talk) 07:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As you can read in wiktionary [[6]], there are 2 uses to eponymous. The second one is for things or people that where named after something. The first, however is the one used here, is for things whose name are used to name other things or people. So I my first name was Napoleon, the Emperor could be qualified as eponymous of me. --Lgriot (talk) 09:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"LRT horse van"?

Translating Under Orders by Dick Francis, I encounter the sentence "Had two LRT horse vans here at seven this morning to collect them all."

In this sentence, "them" means "horses", so "horse van" means "a van for transporting horse".

The stage is England, and more speficically, near London, I suppose.

I wonder what LRT stands for. --Analphil (talk) 07:52, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It might mean London Regional Transport, although I don't think of them as being in control of horse vans. —— Shakescene (talk) 08:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I thought just like that, but rejected the idea for the same reason.--Analphil (talk) 08:10, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Eureka! Lambourn Racehorse Transport[7] - "Founded in 1930 to provide a racing transport service to the racehorse trainers of the Lambourn Valley & surrounding villages, L.R.T. still provides the same quality service today to racing and the bloodstock industry as a whole". Alansplodge (talk) 13:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly!! I forgot the exact stage is Lambourn. You should be right. Thank you!--Analphil (talk) 15:38, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

soroptimist

what is "best for men" ? Kittybrewster ☎ 09:48, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Soroptimist" doesn't really mean anything in Latin, but it squashes Latin soror "sister" and optimus "best" into a single word. You could squash the Latin word for "brother" in a parallel manner, if you really wanted to... AnonMoos (talk) 10:13, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Giving "fratroptimist", perhaps. —Angr (talk) 12:01, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd guess "Soroptimist" was coined to name the female equivalent of Optimist International (which didn't admit women until 1987). Since the men's organization had already taken the plain word optimist, there would have been no need to coin a special male version of the name. Deor (talk) 12:52, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

美国 - Chinese name for the United States

Why are the US called 美国 in Mandarin? I understand that those characters together mean "beautiful country". Why is that? --Belchman (talk) 09:59, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The character 美 is pronounced měi in Mandarin, which copies the second syllable of America. Of course there are other characters with a similar pronunciation, but it's nice if the name sounds appealing in addition to its phonetic similarity. (It's much better than calling it 黴国 "moldy country", 痗国 "ill country", or 祙国 "demon country"!) In Japanese, America used to be called 米国 Beikoku; the character 米 is pronounced mǐ in Mandarin and so was originally also phonetic. But 米国 literally means "rice country" and is thus also an auspicious name as it suggests a land of plenty (even though the Japanese probably eat way more rice per capita than Americans do!). —Angr (talk) 11:54, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of rice consumed in Japan is imported from the US, ironically. --KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 18:24, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the character 米 is still used for the US quite a lot in Japan for shortening: 米日関係 is "US-Japanese relations". In fact, many of the old characters for countries are used in this way, even when the actual name for a country has been modernized into katakana - you could have (especially in newspapers), for instance, 仏伊関係 meaning French-Italian relations, with the shorthand "仏" for France and　"伊" for Italy where noone would dream of writing France in the obsolete rendition of 仏蘭西 or Italy as 伊太利亜. TomorrowTime (talk) 21:29, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Originally in China, US was called as 美理哥, 亞美里加, 美利堅, etc., whose pronunciation is similar to 'America'. Those were abbriviated to 美.--Analphil (talk) 15:48, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The official transaltion of the full name, "United States of America", in Chinese is 美利坚合众国. The first part (美利坚) translates "America(n)" phonetically. "合众国" literally means "a nation [created by] uniting many", and translates "United States". This full name abbreviates to 美国. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:49, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese has some interesting exonyms -- "Moral country" for Germany, "hero country" for England, "old gold mountain" for San Francisco, or so I've been told. Who decides on these? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:06, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Like Angr explained above, many of these are abbreviated phonetic translations of the native pronunciations of those country names. Germany--Deguo--Deutschland; England--Yingguo--; France--Faguo; etc. Still more are un-abbreviated (Italy--Yidali; Phillippines--Feilübin; Spain--Xibanya--España; Mexico--Moxige; etc.; it seems to me that, no offense, but the more obscure the country, the more phonetic the translation). This applies not only to countries, but also to cities and other demonyms (New York--Niu yue; Montpellier--Mengbili'ai; California--Jialifuniya). San Francisco--Jiujinshan is one of the minority that are not phonetic borrowings, but semantic borrowings. rʨanaɢ (talk) 02:06, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The broader question of "who decides these" is harder to answer with anything specific. The article Borrowing (linguistics) and references therein may help you. rʨanaɢ (talk) 02:08, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Scottish English

Am I right to believe Scottish English is just British English with a accent, no differences in spelling just how words are said? Thanks --George2001hi (Discussion) 21:35, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, there's more to it than just pronunciation. See Scottish English. Algebraist 21:41, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ye Sassenach ye. Clarity MacFiend (talk) 21:50, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Try reading this. This is fairly easy modern Scots. Burns' poetry is significantly more difficult for a speaker of "standard" English.

Sgt. MacKenzie Lament

Lay me doon in the caul caul groon

Whaur afore monie mair huv gaun

Lay me doon in the caul caul groon

Whaur afore monie mair huv gaun

When they come a wull staun ma groon

Staun ma groon al nae be afraid

Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear

Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears

Ains a year say a prayer faur me

Close yir een an remember me

Nair mair shall a see the sun

For a fell tae a Germans gun

Lay me doon in the caul caul groon

Whaur afore monie mair huv gaun

Lay me doon in the caul caul groon

Whaur afore monie mair huv gaun

Roger (talk) 22:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As the article I linked to mentions, Scots and Scottish English do not always mean the same thing. Algebraist 22:55, 11 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

November 12

@@ Line 195: / Line 195: @@
 : I am not a Chinese, but I suppose it means "The story of King Yue(of course, here, 'King' does not actually mean he was a king but is a kind of honorific) who restored the Great Song Dyansty"--[[User:Analphil|Analphil]] ([[User talk:Analphil|talk]]) 08:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 :: Agree with the above, except that Yue Fei was raised to the rank of nobility of ''Wang'' posthummously in 1211, which is often regarded as equivalent to the Western title of "king", being second in rank only to the Emperor (just as a European king is subservient to the Emperor of Rome). --[[User:PalaceGuard008|PalaceGuard008]] ([[User_Talk:PalaceGuard008|Talk]]) 16:53, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
+"The Story of King Yue of the Resurgent Song Dynasty"[[Special:Contributions/71.167.144.217|71.167.144.217]] ([[User talk:71.167.144.217|talk]]) 03:31, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 == Eponymous ==