Talk:Michael (Michael Jackson album)

Two versions of article for this album

the other entry is titled Michael (album).Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:38, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Let keep this on one page to make it easy - see Talk:Michael (album)#Merger proposal PS yes merge,04:56, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

i agree, i wont comment here further, and neither should anyone else, until merge is settled.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:05, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was already done by someone. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:52, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

• OK, this has 2 versions, the other is at Michael (Michael Jackson album).Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
• Support It just a double ..But keep all info and refs in the transfer...we must take a look make sure non is copyrighted.Moxy (talk) 04:54, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
• Comment We have Michael as a soundtrack for the movie Michael[1], which is prior art (with no article created yet), so does that mean we should call MJ's album "Michael (Michael Jackson album)", or is the fact that this will likely be the more notable one, just "Michael (album)"? No other albums listed at allmusic, and no other albums so named on wikipedia. I'm leaning towards "Michael (album)" as its the first one created here, and will be the more notable. You are of course correct about the transfer of info/refs.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
• Comment, redux As would be expected, the cover has been uploaded twice, so we have to delete one of the files.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:31, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

merge has been done , but info and a ref lost in the process...Lets take the time and fix this.Moxy (talk) 05:49, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

• Support history merge into this article. No other albums called "Michael" exist. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 05:55, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
• Support merge into this page. Silvergoat (talk∙contrib) 07:05, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
•  Done by someone :: closing. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:52, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Compilation / Studio album war

There is an ongoing edit war between editors who believe this is a compilation album, and some who believe it is a studio album. We need to reach a consensus here, so that the Michael Jackson template can also reflect this. In view of the writing style of previous release Looking Back to Yesterday, I am of the view that this is a compilation album, even if the tracks were produced in a studio, and were unreleased prior to December 2010. According to Compilation album: "Other single-artist compilations, such as rarities or B-side collections, albums compiled from radio sessions, songs performed by an artist exclusively for a film soundtrack or collections that combine multiple releases, such as LPs and EPs together on one or more compact discs. These are generally aimed at existing fans of the artist and have little mainstream appeal, though postmortem compilations of unreleased materials from recently deceased artists have significant popularity. Reqluce (talk) 02:04, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

We need to wait until the release, have one song recorded on a studio in 200? not make this album a studio album, there's not tracklist, so assume that is "studio" for Breaking News is original research. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 01:53, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

I do not understand your comment. Do you agree that it is a compilation album, or a studio album?Reqluce (talk) 01:56, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Compilation. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 01:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Compilation album, for the reasons listed above. The true question is for Farewell My Summer Love. For this LP, the situation is very different. SJ (talk) 13:57, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

However, the Estate and SONY are treating this as a new album and NOT a compilation. Can't we just have "studio/compilation album" to stop this constant editing? It seems that the promotion for the album is being made as the new Michael Jackson album, not a compilation album like "This Is It". If we can't agree with this, can't we just write "posthumous album of unreleased songs"? 92.30.18.33 (talk) 12:59, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Some reports have take this album as compilation, but actually, these reports are before the track listing published, an album with all new materials cannot be regarded as a compliation, but a studio album. The better way is to wait, to find what are the track listing of the album. We all know that some early reports cannot be 100% right. And if this album's materials are all new songs, it is a "studio album". I strongly suggest to use "studio/compilation album" to stop this editing. Parabola1999 (talk) 14:06, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

It seems that we still take time to end the war, then just delete the word of "studio" and "complitation" in this article, and take it as "album". Parabola1999 (talk) 14:09, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

There are various types of compilation, not only greatest hits compilation. Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compilation_album it was also posted in this topic by Reqluce. Also Looking Back to Yesterday contains only new material (except "Love's Gone Bad" and "I Was Made to Love Her", but it seen as a compilation for the reasons written in that link. SJ (talk) 14:31, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

i believe it is a compilation album --74.233.173.33 (talk) 22:26, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

It is a studio album. All the songs are going to be new. Chelo61 (talk) 00:57, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes Michael from his grave recorded all songs, unless you have a source that say that Jackson (almost finished) recording all song IN a recording studio, it can be changed. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 01:03, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

If it was just another compilation album, then Sony would have said something like "New Michael Jackson album that includes his greatest hits with a new song". Chelo61 (talk) 02:58, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

But as was mentioned above, a compilation album does not necessarily have to be a greatest hits. I think the question is, was this album an actual concept that Jackson was working on at the time of his death, or is it just a vault-raiding exercise? If it was put together from various different and unrelated sessions with several different producers since 2001 (which seems to be the case) then "compilation" seems to me to be the perfect description.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:44, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

There are new tracks, but was previously recorded. We can consider it an B-side, rare tracks release. I believe this is MORE a Compliation album THAN a studio album. Silvergoat (talk∙ contrib) 08:49, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

It is a COMPILATION. Chloe61's claim that it is a studio album just because "all tracks are going to be new" is both shallow and lame. Like Pawnkingthree pointed out, this album is far more of a 'vault-raiding exercise'. There was working title, no concept, no mention of Jackson working on a single body of upcoming work, despite the claims that he had been recording privately with various producers. This is not like Guns N' Roses's Chinese Democracy which took a mind-numbing 13 years to produce. All tracks they had been recording were also "going to be new" at the time of its release, but as you can see, press coverage of its inception, recording process and release was evident throughout its recording phase. That studio album was a Concept album, which this one is not.188.223.120.131 (talk) 16:05, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Sony Music is going to release more albums after this one, so for them to release any of these as studio albums is quite unrealistic in the sense that when an artist is no longer living, these albums, or posthumous compilations, as they become known as, even with completely new tracks, are considered as such in that the artist must be living at the time of the album's core make-up from creation through end. Should an artist die while in progress of making a studio album-to-be, but knowing the relatively set date of release, as in the sense of near-completing the album, the album is then considered a studio album. If newly created tracks never-before released are pulled together, as by a record label, to create an album after that artist has been deceased for some time, then the album is considered to be a compilation. Best, --Discographer (talk) 23:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Comment: all of The Notorious B.I.G.'s posthumous albums are considered studio albums, with the exception of a greatest hits one, which is obviously a compilation. Yves (talk) 00:00, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Did you read these articles? I just did, and the infoboxes should immediately be changed to match that of those articles (misleading). Best, --Discographer (talk) 00:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Eye Legacy by the late Lisa Lopes is clearly classified as a COMPILATION. She's dead, the album was incomplete at the time of her passing even though the work on the album was well documented.188.223.120.131 (talk) 14:43, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I Care 4 U by the late Aaliyah is also classified as a COMPILATION, but like this article suffers from the double label 'studio album/compilation album'.188.223.120.131 (talk) 18:18, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Other articles that confirm that this new album is a compilation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/nov/08/new-michael-jackson-songs

http://www.allaccess.com/net-news/archive/story/83374/new-michael-jackson-track-posted-to-his-website

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/45607/

http://www.sodahead.com/entertainment/what-do-you-think-of-this-unreleased-michael-jackson-song/question-1323297/

SJ (talk) 14:51, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

So does this mean you guys are going to call every single NEW Michael Jackson studio albums of NEW MATERIAL a compilation album instead of a STUDIO ALBUM and trick people to think all of his NEW STUDIO ALBUMS are just new compilation albums? Chelo61 (talk) 00:47, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I honestly think this kind of thing should go farther above just this article. I suggest maybe trying to maybe get a sense of getting a posthumous album template. I'm not sure if that's allowed, but it would solve a lot of problems with not just this article, but many. Regardless, this is no way shape or form a studio album by Michael Jackson. ΣПDiПG–STΛЯT (Talk) 06:34, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Chelo61, it was explained above because it's a compilation and not a studio album. I understand that many fans are excited for the release of an album with new songs after 9 years of waiting, but we would be realists. This album contains out-takes from various recording sessions. It's like Farewell My Summer Love and Looking Back to Yesterday. SJ (talk) 13:37, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Did the war end? I don't think so. I believe it is a studio album, but I prefer to use the accurate words: "posthumous album of unreleased tracks". Please do not make the change until there is a result of this war. Parabola1999 (talk) 09:28, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I believe it is a studio album. If Sony Music and Epic Records are treating it like a NEW STUDIO ALBUM, then that's what it is. A new single is being released from it, and it is being promoted as the new Michael Jackson album, not a compilation of unreleased songs. To my understanding, this was an album that Jackson was secretly working on before died, and although many of the songs are unfinished, it was going to be his eleventh studio album had he not passed away. So because it's a posthumous album, we're going to call it a compilation? That makes no sense to me. This is Michael Jackson's eleventh studio album. End of story. Live Light (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:01, 13 November 2010 (UTC).

Sony and Epic present this album as a new album, not a new studio album. Look at www.michaeljackson.com Now, look these links:

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10B1EFF3C5F0C738EDDA80994DB404482

http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/michael-jackson/news/42175-michael-jackson-announces-new-album

Number Ones and King of Pop are two compilation best of/greatest hits, but they were called simply album from some reliable sources, because an album can be studio, compilation and live. In the Michael page and in this page, i also posted some reliable sources that claim this album as a compilation of unreleased tracks. SJ (talk) 18:31, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

This isn't a compilation album. They aren't putting the songs the way they were. They are WORKING on the songs and producing them just like they would in a STUDIO ALBUM. New studio albums are usually refer to as just new albums because everything on the album is NEW. New compilation albums are usually refer to as new albums of greatest hits. Chelo61 (talk) 20:03, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Though note that 'Studio' is put first for this article, whilst it second for Farewell My Summer Love and Looking Back to Yesterday, which are, like mentioned, also albums of newly released material, but not recorded for the album.92.235.128.38 (talk) 20:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

"stylized"

Most album covers, as well as most books, have the title/name printed in all capitals, though the formal name (as listed in record company catalogs, etc) has just the first letter of each significant word capitalized. I dont think we need to describe the album name as "stylized as MICHAEL".Mercurywoodrose (talk) 04:59, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Exactly the reason for its removal yesterday(today). :) Yves (talk) 00:59, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Probably could have just done it myself, but thanks for stepping up and being bold.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 02:55, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

No problem! I've seen it done before and removed a lot from many album articles, so I decided to do the same. So many albums are like this, and capitalization is not considered styling. Yves (talk) 03:07, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Breaking News seems to be an independent article

In accordane with WP:NSONGS, it did not fail any longer, and many reviews now are for the song, not the album. 01:48, Parabola1999 (talk) 01:48, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

The actual version would only has original researches and critical reception, that is not enough for meet the WP:N criteria. Tbhotch^{Talk C.} 18:19, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

With WP:N and WP:NSONGS, "Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, that have won significant awards or honors or that have been independently released as a recording by several notable artists, bands or groups are probably notable." Now Breaking News had been charted, and now there are plenty of verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article for it, so it is time to set this song as an independent article. Parabola1999 (talk) 03:27, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Small change to first paragraph.

Thriller (and all other albums) are described as "the sixth studio album by..."

In that case, I feel this article should start with something like Michael is the seventh album to be released since Michael Jackson's death in June 2009. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.18.249 (talk) 19:37, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

- and a small change to the end of the article: removal of the Produced By MJ category, since (1) it was finished after he died, and (2) "Lenny Kravitz confirmed that he had produced, written, and composed Another Day" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.18.249 (talk) 19:44, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

First single Hold My Hand

The first single Hold My Hand was written by neither Michael Jackson nor Akon. It is written by Claude Kelly (and produced by Akon)