Talk:2011 Tucson shooting

tucson?

Is it Tucson or suburb of Tucson (ie. Greater Tucson). CNN says just outside Tucson, which would mean Pima County. 65.94.69.242 (talk) 20:11, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

According to the Arizona Republic it was the Safeway at Ina & Oracle, whose address is 7110 N Oracle Rd, Tucson AZ 85704-4332. 76.126.245.0 (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

That address would fall within Casas Adobes, it seems. 174.113.185.28 (talk) 20:32, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Terrorism?

Doesn't this fit the accepted definiton of a terrorist act? If so, it should also be put under "terrorism in the United States."174.101.121.203 (talk) 20:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I would hold off until we know more about the motivation. The [new york times] gives a description of the shooter.--Banana (talk) 20:19, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)There is no widely agreed-upon definition of terrorism. Let's hold off on that for now until we get a number of news organizations calling it that. NW (Talk) 20:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

It might, but it's too soon to say. We don't know the motivations of the shooter (though I can't help but wonder if it's a tea party sympathizer taking to those "second amendment remedies"). I was thinking about whether or not it belongs on List of events named massacres, but it's too soon to say. --Muboshgu (talk) 20:28, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Just read this. It seems political with the targeting of all her aides, bear in mind it doesnt have to be by an organised group per Lone wolf terrorism (emphasis on "terrorism"((Lihaas (talk) 20:31, 8 January 2011 (UTC)).

Terrorism would seem to be a loaded term to add to any article. IRWolfie- (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Original research at this point to call the shootings terrorism, since law enforcement, government, and the press have so far not called it that. Edison (talk) 21:15, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Palin's Map Notable?

I think the map that is being circulated all over the place which appeared (up until a few moments ago) on S. Palin's website is notable and should be a part of this article. I'm not sure in what light it should be painted, but it is certainly relevant to the situation whether or not the shooters are right-wing, etc. The controversy surrounding Giffords in AZ has went on for awhile. Her stance on border control could be listed under the same sub-heading. 216.26.124.22 (talk) 20:26, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

And her 2010 opponent ran a campaign heavy on the violent metaphors with his military experience. It's too soon to make assumptions like this. There was a federal judge there, for all we know he was the main target and Giffords was caught in the crossfire. Analysis of this shooting will surely be coming in the future, after the dust settles. --Muboshgu (talk) 20:29, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Appears now that the shooter to be a soldier who served in Afghanistan, hardly the usual occupation of an anarchist or communist in America. --Rarian rakista (talk) 21:25, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Here's an video of an interview with Gifford, where she was complaining about the the gun rhetoric of the tea party, and mentioned this very image. This was 9 months ago. http://kateoplis.tumblr.com/post/2655554409/msnbc-talks-to-rep-gabrielle-gifford-about-the Highlighting it here for possible future inclusion in the article, if right wing/tea party involvement in the shooting is established.CardboardGuru (talk) 20:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, the fact it's been removed from the SarahPAC page is itself notable.CardboardGuru (talk) 20:36, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Has it been removed? The server could be overloaded due to the traffic. --Muboshgu (talk) 20:41, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

A few minutes ago, the SarahPAC page at http://www.takebackthe20.com/ displayed perfectly, except for an error for the image in question. Now, the URL does not respond at all. It's pretty clearly a rapid attempt to remove the evidence.CardboardGuru (talk) 20:45, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Similarly, this edit should be allowed: "Her opponent in last year’s election held a campaign event at a gun range, to “get on target” to “remove Gabrielle Giffords from office”."CardboardGuru (talk) 20:31, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Stating the obvious here, but hold off on calling this political motivation. Little is still known.Tktru (talk) 20:35, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

The link to the map was updated. There is now a screenshot of the calendar of events of her opponent during the campaign. It reads: "Get on target for Victory in November Help remeove Gabriele Griffords from office Shoot a fully loaded M16 with Jesse Kelly." Wingtipvortex (talk) 21:09, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I concur with the above. For all we know, this could by an anarchist or a communist, or just a random shooting by a deranged man. Toa Nidhiki05 20:38, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Whether this was politically motivated or not I think that there is little question that there is a significant amount of speculation to that end. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.26.124.22 (talk) 20:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

The mainstream press are noting the map, so it seems appropriate to mention it in the article. It is not original research or synthesis if the newsmedia are noting it. Edison (talk) 21:22, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

In that case, I agree with adding it. How to do it is a touchy issue though. --Muboshgu (talk) 21:25, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't add it yet. It would imply that Palin ordered a hit or something. Let's wait until we get all of the facts. --BurtAlert (talk) 21:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

The NY Times and the Voice of America mentioned the Palin map in the article. Edison (talk) 21:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

• Please see discussion at WP:BLPN#Alleged connection of Sarah Palin to Gabrielle Giffords shooting. Kelly ^hi! 22:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Can we cleanup the layout a little bit?

We don't need all those one-sentence/one-paragraph sections or one-sentence paragraphs. Let's try to keep some organization here. –MuZemike 20:39, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I guess as soon more information comes up those sections will be filled with information. I think it is fine.Pencil (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, this is how things get fleshed out in Wikipedia when you have a real time event, this will be a well-researched article in a matter of hours, Go Wikipedia! --Rarian rakista (talk) 21:27, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Categories

I think that Mass murders in 2011 and Assassination attempts in 2011 cats should be removed since we don't know the actual number of dead for sure yet and until more about the motivation is known we do not know that this was an assassination or assassination attempt. There has to be more conservative categories we can use until we know all the facts. Is there a shootings in 2011 category? Cat-five - talk 20:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Murder is being misused. Technically, it is a BLP violation. Killings, yes. Murder is a legal term. Let's be precise. Nesteoil (talk) 20:43, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Murder - The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another Toa Nidhiki05 20:46, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

My issue was more with the use of it being mass murder, since that's a bit unclear especially when the number dead isn't concretely known. Cat-five - talk 20:50, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed Category:Assassination attempts and Category:Mass murder in 2011 per the above. Cat-five - talk 20:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Judge killed

MSNBC.com says, "BREAKING NEWS: Federal judge killed in Ariz. attack — NBC News". Sincerely, --24.154.173.243 (talk) 20:51, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Federal judge? Which one? Please link the source, if you have it. Jonathunder (talk) 20:58, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

John McCarthy Roll was the judge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JacobStaven (talk • contribs) 21:24, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Repeated phrase

The quote from Jason Ogin that states "The motive for the shooting remains unclear" is used twice in the article, which seems redundant. I request someone chooses the appropriate one to keep while removing the other one. Gaandolf (talk) 20:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Things like that happen on an article that's edited so frequently by many editors in a short amount of time. --Muboshgu (talk) 20:56, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I've fixed it.--White Shadows ^{We live in a beautiful world} 20:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

She's alive

The hospital reports that she is alive but in critical condition.--White Shadows ^{We live in a beautiful world} 21:03, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

See also on Anna Lindh

Is this really relevant to this incident? Yes, a politician who happened to be a woman, was assassinated in Sweden in 2003. Is that the only link, gender? freshacconci talktalk 21:03, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah, now it's gone. freshacconci talktalk 21:04, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

"See also" links

I blanked the section after Anna Lindh and JFK were both added; JFK is definitely not relevant, plenty of other politicians have been assassinated. Anna Lindh was readded; it may make sense to keep her IF this turns out to be an assassination attempt, as she was a woman in a similar political position. But I'm not sure if that's enough similarity to qualify for relevance; by the same token, any US congressperson assassinated might be notable. However, the motives have not been reported yet, so we cannot assume that this is an assassination attempt (even if it looks very certain to be one.) Thus, I believe nobody should be listed here until we know more about the motive and such. 99.55.199.47 (talk) 21:06, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I accidentally deleted comments, this is a section that got lost in the restoration. Cat-five - talk 21:08, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Lindh was a attacked in a store as was the congresswoman, both had no security, both attacks raised questions about the security of public officials, really the only major differences between this incident and the Lindh incident is that there were multiple fatalities in this attack, the persumed target of the attack has not died and the other attack was in Sweeden. The see also section is to link articles of similar nature which both have. JFK certainly has no relation to this incident, but Anna Lindh's murder, assassination or whatever you call it is actually quite similar to this particular event. --Kuzwa (talk) 21:10, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Lindh was stabbed, her attacker initially fled, she was shopping inside a department store, and not at a political event outside a grocery store, is from another country, etc. (Just to note some major differences.) I'm sure we could come up with plenty of other figures who are as relevant as she is. Also, this article is about the attack, not directly about Ms. Giffords. Links to descriptions of very similar attacks themselves might be appropriate, but not links to the figures involved in my opinion. Those belong on the Gabrielle Giffords page, if anywhere. 99.55.199.47 (talk) 21:17, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Well the details of Lindh's killing are on her own page. She does not have an individual article on her death. Essentially all I did was add a See Also link. It certainly isn't taking away from the article infact it adds context with similar events in the past. --Kuzwa (talk) 21:20, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Would a compromise be if I directly linked to the murder section on Anna Lindh's page? I don't think that Anna Lindh and Gabrielle Giffords should be linked on each other's pages because other than these attacks they both have nothing in common. --Kuzwa (talk) 21:29, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I'd say we need input from more than the two of us to decide whether to include that. Opinions? 99.55.199.47 (talk) 21:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Right, which is why I'm saying if linked, it should be from Gifford's page. For example, there are no "see also" links to other people, or even other assassinations, from the JFK Assassination page. However, the JFK page has "see also" links to Robert Kennedy, lists of other assassinated public figures, etc. I believe that is reasonable precedent to follow. This page should remain about the assassination event, especially when there is a page for the specific person who you're trying to add information about. 99.55.199.47 (talk) 21:28, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

See I find that strange, but perhaps the Kennedy Brothers are not a great example as this circumstance as they were brothers, you would think they would have mention of one's brothers as something that might be important to see also on their page. I'm looking through MLK and other assassination victims and found that in the Assassination of Benazir Bhutto there is a link in the See Also section to Liaquat Ali Khan who was also assassinated but does not have an article on his death. So I'm kind of of the opinion that it really does not matter either way? --Kuzwa (talk) 21:43, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking JFK, but now I think thats not really related. Oklahoma City is probably something to consider putting. The theme of See Also should be incidents related to right wing anti-government violence. Do we have an article on that guy who brought a gun to the Obama rally? Anna Lindh is most definitely irrelevant. Our goal in See also should be articles that people might think of when reading this.--Metallurgist (talk) 22:55, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Whoa. We don't know this was right wing anti-government violence. We really don't know the motivations of the shooter at all. But regardless the ideaology behind does not have to be the exact same, the circumstances under which the attack occured however are similar between Lindh and Giffords. --Kuzwa (talk) 23:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Ms. Giffords

Can someone please change the status of Ms. Giffords to Representative Giffords? 68.107.27.52 (talk) 21:12, 8 January 2011 (UTC)\

``

10 patients

Seems im listening to the same press brief. however I heard it different. 5 in critical condition, 5(not 4 as in the Article) in surgery, 1 died, the 1 that died was a 9 year old child. It makes more sense, The dead are not patients. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.238.120 (talk) 21:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

That Safeway is actually in Casas Adobes, Arizona

If you look at the Tucson city map and then compare it to the location on Google Maps for that particular Safeway store, it's clear it's not within the city limits of Tucson. It's actually in the unincorporated area of Casas Adobes, Arizona. That's why the Tucson city police chief just said in the hospital news conference that they don't have any direct responsibility for the investigation. The article should be changed to reflect the correct location of the incident. --Coolcaesar (talk) 21:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

For clarity, the Tuscon city policy don't have direct responsibility for the investigation because federal officials were attacked and killed, thus placing the investigation under federal jurisdiction. 164.107.251.141 (talk) 21:39, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I think Coolcaesar is referring to the fact that the location in Casas Adobes is under the jurisdiction of the Pima County Sheriff's Department, and not the Tucson Police Department. APS221 (talk) 23:08, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Number of dead

These [1][2] sources clearly say 6 are dead, not just 1. Nanobear (talk) 21:17, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

It's one dead at that hospital. The press brief everybody is watching is from the PoV of that hospital.

Obama just said in his speech that 5 died so far. Turbokoala (talk) 21:49, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Youtube channel of shooter

Is this legit? Classitup10 --BurtAlert (talk) 21:39, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Maybe, join date and video post dates indicate that it is indeed a youtube page of A Jared Loughner but if it is the youtube channel of THE Jared Loughner is another matter. Hackers may have got there etc. etc. 86.134.88.250 (talk) 21:42, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Craziness he posted on a girl's Myspace page :www.myspace.com/28299026+%22fallenasleep%22+az&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us" target="_blank"&gt ;http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=ca..." target="_blank"> :www.myspace.com/28299026+%22fallenasleep%22+az&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

" =| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L1lsLU-kUw If there's no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown. There's no flag in the constitution. Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown. Burn every new and old flag that you see. Burn your flag! I bet you can imagine this in your mind with a faster speed. Watch this protest in reverse! Ask the local police; "What's your illegal activity on duty?". If you protest the government then there's a new government from protesting. There's not a new government from protesting. Thus, you aren't protesting the government. There's something important in this video: There's no communication to anyone in this location. You shouldn't be afraid of the stars. There's a new bird on my right shoulder. The beak is two feet and lime green. The rarest bird on earth, there's no feathers, but small grey scales all over the body. It's with one large red eye with a light blue iris. The bird feet are the same as a woodpecker. This new bird and there's only one, the gender is not female or male. The wings of this bird are beautiful; 3 feet wide with the shape of a bald eagle that you could die for. If you can see this bird then you will understand. You think this bird is able to chat about a government? I want you to imagine a comet or meteoroid coming through the atmosphere. On the other hand, welcome yourself to the desert: Maybe your ability to protest is from the brainwash of the current government " --Rarian rakista (talk) 21:46, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Wow, this guy was pretty insane. I will be on the lookout for more. --BurtAlert (talk) 21:49, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

He lists all of his literarry inspirations: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

Notice he has Animal Farm, Mein Kampf, The Communist Manifesto, Meno in that reading list. Is philosphy must be quite interesting... --Kuzwa (talk) 21:55, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Let's leave this out until a reliable source connects the channel to him, ok? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:55, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

What Sarek said. See WP:PRIMARY for more. NW (Talk) 21:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good. Also, I just searched for him on Facebook, there was a troll account and this. Could be him. It says he lives in Tuscon, Arizona and it has a picture. --BurtAlert (talk) 21:57, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

None of this should be linked from or added to the Wikipedia article until it has been in the mainstream news media. Edison (talk) 22:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Jared Lee Loughner

http://azstarnet.com/image_e2eb0f94-2fb9-11df-8820-001cc4c002e0.html His picture is on the azstarnet page for an unrelated event.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/azstarnet.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/e/2e/b0f/e2eb0f94-2fb9-11df-8820-001cc4c002e0.image.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bryancpe (talk • contribs) 22:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Just heard it on CNN that it is confirmed of the shooter's name as mentioned above. –MuZemike 22:12, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Still not mentioned on their website, though. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:17, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Does this count as a reliable source then? [3] Its New York magazine, there are also 2 other sources in the article that say he did it. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

YouTube videos

Loughner apparently has a YouTube video channel at [4], under the name of Classitup10. This is reminiscent of the Kauhajoki school shooting, prior to which Matti Saari had posted videos on YouTube. I've had a look at the three Loughner videos and there is nothing disturbing in them, although they are weird. Take a look quickly, YouTube may pull this channel.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 22:19, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Youtube is already in the process of doing that the comments and rankings have been disbled and its only a matter of time out of respect for the victims to remove the channel. Anyways youtube can not count as a reliable source here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:25, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) See above. We are not including it at this point. NW (Talk) 22:25, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Piggynuts, 8 January 2011

The shooting was in Tucson people, not Casas Adobes. Everyone in Tucson, being born and raised there, talks in terms of "East Side, West Side," NOT by neighborhoods like in most major other US cities. Thus, the shooting occured on the northwest side of Tucson, AZ, not in Casas Adobes.

Piggynuts (talk) 22:27, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

But Casas Adobes is a suburb of the city...--White Shadows ^{We live in a beautiful world} 22:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Where in a reference does it say it happened in Casas Adobes? There is conflicting references in the article that say it happened in Tuscon. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:46, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Piggynuts, We understand this was in the Tucson area. However, the location is outside the city limits of Tucson and the Tucson Police Department's jurisdiction. Instead, the location where the shooting occured is under the jurisdiction of the Pima County Sheriff's Department. While people may talk in terms of "East Side, West Side," we should be concerned with specific locations and not approximate areas. APS221 (talk) 22:53, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Reactions

The Reactions section is ridiculously long now, and there's a separate page for it that's linked.

Edit request due to protection: please cut out most of these. It makes sense to me to keep the following: Obama, Boehner, Pelosi, McCain, Governor Brewer. (Obama is obvious, Boehner as the speaker, Pelosi as the Democratic majority leader since Giffords is a Democrat, McCain and Brewer since they're the highest profile Arizonans to comment.) 99.55.199.47 (talk) 22:43, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done, now has a separate article for the reactions.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 22:55, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Much better, but can we please get rid of Sarah Palin? Her only political connection, unlike the other folks who're there now, is that she targeted Giffords for defeat. I don't think she should be quoted prominently with the other folks there just because she likes to be on TV a lot these days. That does make her a notable figure somewhat, sure, but again...no real political connection unlike the others, nor is she a real politician anymore like the others. 99.55.199.47 (talk) 23:04, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Someone has untrimmed this. It is way too long, classic recentism and listcruft. However, Sarah Palin's reaction is notable.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 23:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Title

Lots of people are shot in Tucson.

There needs to be discussion on the title. First, we need to decide what is important then decide on the title.

As we know more, it may make sense. Was the gunman mad at Safeway? Or Judge Roll? Or Rep. Giffords? Or mad at Tucson? Or just wanted to shoot at a crowd?

CNN poses this as the shooting of Giffords, not 2011 Tucson shooting as Wikipedia. If so, it is original research and wrong to make up a Wikipedia term. Hakkapeliitta (talk) 22:47, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Did not the shooting happen at an event called, Congress on Your Corner ? Would that not be needed in the title ? Just as a shooting at the Superbowl would have Superbowl in the title110.174.238.120 (talk) 23:13, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Not how we do things
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
2011 Is this important. Don't assume that it is. Neutral 2011 is not a major feature of the event. Hakkapeliitta (talk) 22:48, 8 January 2011 (UTC) Tucson, AZ Oppose Reliable sources, like CNN, point to Gifford's shooting more prominently than Tucson. Besides, it may be Casas Adobes, AZ. Hakkapeliitta (talk) 22:49, 8 January 2011 (UTC) Safeway Neutral No reports of anti-Safeway yet but the Safeway shootings may become popularized as a term later. Hakkapeliitta (talk) 22:50, 8 January 2011 (UTC) Gabrielle Giffords Support Reliable sources, like CNN, point to this as the event. Hakkapeliitta (talk) 22:48, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Comments

This is so poorly set up I dont even know where to post, I am fine with the current title as I feel it says enough. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:51, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

What the hell is this? The page move should be undone. We don't even know Giffords was the target. It could have been Roll. --Muboshgu (talk) 22:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Per consensus? You were the only one to vote for a change! This needs to be undone.--White Shadows ^{We live in a beautiful world} 22:54, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I reverted the change I feel that this should be move protected until this dispute can be resolved, there is anotehr way to present the information too. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:56, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I'd keep it at 2011 Tucson shooting for now. Year+place has often been the standard formula for names of articles about shootings. Nanobear (talk) 23:00, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for stopping the move war. Do we need all 50 heading on this page. --Guerillero | My Talk 23:01, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed to keep it as 2011 Tucson shooting - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:02, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Support move-protection. The current title is not ideal, but Hakkapeliitta has twicerepeatedly moved this page to random-seeming titles, and the above is a textbook example of how not to conduct a move discussion. If there's no obvious new title, we discuss it, we do not force things to proceed through incomprehensible polls. — Gavia immer (talk) 23:03, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I feel that this discussion shoul be removed too so there isnt 50 headings here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:04, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I cut as much of it as I could without altering Hakkapeliitta's comments and hid the rest. Again, let's discuss things. — Gavia immer (talk) 23:09, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose moves Current title is fine. I would support move protection as well. Yoenit (talk) 23:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose moves Agreed current title is fine, it sums up what the article is about without being overlly too detailed. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:09, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Moves If this is moved again it needs to be locked in place. This wheel warring is crazy. --Guerillero | My Talk 23:12, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Please move protect for the time being.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 23:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Merger of Reactions to shooting of Gabrielle Giffords

See also: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reactions to shooting of Gabrielle Giffords

I am proposing that Reactions to shooting of Gabrielle Giffords be merged back here. It is an unnecessary spinout of the shooting article, and it can easily be mentioned here without undue weight or size concerns. Moreover Wikipedia is not the news, and this is disproportionate to the treatment of similar tragic incidents. –MuZemike 23:07, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support The section needs trimming, not a separate article. Yoenit (talk) 23:09, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• I support the notion for the same reasons that you voiced.--White Shadows ^{We live in a beautiful world} 23:10, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I just started an AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reactions to shooting of Gabrielle Giffords for the same reason. If there is consensus that it is better handled as a merger proposal, that is fine with me. I thought AfD was more appropriate since it appears that the merger effectively already occurred, with the over-quoting moved to the forked article. VQuakr (talk) 23:11, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

• Support. Not sure why it was spun out so early in the first place. — Gavia immer (talk) 23:14, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support You can find my comment on the AfD page. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:15, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support. [5] could be linked to as a way to keep a reference to some of the reactions from less-notable folks accessible without weighing down the page. 99.55.199.47 (talk) 23:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Wait I can forsee lots of N people putting in their two cents about this --Guerillero | My Talk 23:18, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Comment, the content was copied back into the article by Hakkapeliitta (talk · contribs) Nakon 23:19, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Shows over Lets just archive and move on here... - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:21, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support for what its worth. There's no need for a second article, and it would go nicely in this one and her own article. Umbralcorax (talk) 23:24, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
• Support per my comment at the AfD. 65.94.44.243 (talk) 23:24, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Other Congressional/Senate Assassination Attempts

Have there been any others? If so there should be links. Professor water (talk) 23:20, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

• Last one was Leo Ryan in Jonestown, Guyana. Also, Arkansas state chair Bill Gwatney. Not that these should be added to the article; I suggest List of assassinated American politicians be put in a see also section. Abductive (reasoning) 23:32, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

We don't need anything until we know more. She wasn't assassinated, we don't even know for sure it was an assassination attempt. Trebor (talk) 23:35, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Jared Laughner

I noticed that Jared Laughner redirects here, shouldn't Jared Lee Laughner also redirect here? KVOA said that was his name. 65.94.44.243 (talk) 23:35, 8 January 2011 (UTC)