Talk:Mohamed Bouazizi

Deletion

Why is the page considered for deletion? Bouazizi has become a public figure and a national symbol in Tunisia but also the rest of the Arab world. I am not familiar with WP guidelines but if there something that could be done, I will be happy to help!

Why would this article be targeted for deletion?

From the Washington Post: "Their rage at political and economic disenfranchisement spilled over last month with the desperate act of an unemployed man. Mohammed Bouazizi, 26, distraught when police confiscated his unlicensed produce stand, set himself on fire on Dec. 17 and died on Jan. 3. Soon, several other unemployed youth tried to commit suicide, and at least one of them did. Is there a more poignant portrayal of what ails the Arab world than images of its young people killing themselves as their leaders get older and richer?

Human rights groups say more than 60 people have died in clashes with Ben Ali's security forces since Dec. 17, but Bouazizi's self-immolation has come to symbolize what many are calling the Jasmine Revolution."

I admit I am ignorant of Wikipedia's standards in this regard. Certainly Mr. Bouazizi is as significant as say Neda Soltani, to whom an entire article is dedicated here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.201.175 (talk) 02:07, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

This page should not be deleted. This man is now considered by many to be a hero.--Aa2-2004 (talk) 11:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Further evidence why the page should NOT be deleted

I totally agree with the previous comments, the page should not be deleted. Mr Bouazizi has become the symbol of the Tunisian revolution, an unprecedented case in the 'Arab world', this is the first time that an 'Arab leader' is forced to leave power by a popular uprising. Not only would it be a disgrace to delete the page, it would amount to distorting historical facts and events. Prominent commentators have acknowledged Mr. Bouazizi's role in igniting the recent events that have unfolded in Tunisia, The Economist, "Tunisia's troubles" is one of them: (Jan 13, 2011):

"Since December 17th, when a young man in the city of Sidi Bouzid set himself on fire to protest against chronic unemployment and police brutality, spontaneous protests have spread from the poor interior to more prosperous coastal cities."

The New York Times, "Joy as Tunisian President Flees Offers Lesson to Arab Leaders" is another: (Jan 14, 2011)

"Mohamed Bouazizi, the 26-year-old university graduate who could find work only as a fruit and vegetable vendor. He set himself on fire in a city square in December when the police seized his cart and mistreated him. A Facebook page called Tunisians hailed him as 'the symbol of the Tunisian revolution.' 'God have mercy on you, Tunisia’s martyr, and on the all free martyrs of Tunisia,' it read. “One candle burns to create light and one candle beats all oppression.” In Egypt, his name came up at a small solidarity protest."

Of course, this does not mean that he was the only factor that brought about the revolution, nonetheless his martyrdom was certainly crucial. --JAR (talk) 04:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Mohamed Bouazizi and all the innocent Tunisians who lost their lives are martyrs of the country's struggle against the former regime. January 14, 2011 must be celebrated to remember the end of Ben Ali's tyranny. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.96.112.102 (talk) 20:17, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Although the protests in Tunisia are still ongoing, it is clear that the self-immolation of Mohamed Bouazizi acted as a sort of catalizer for the popular uprising. His act can be compared to that of the Vietnamese Buddhist monk, Thích_Quảng_Đức, whose act ultimately contributed to the downfall of the South Vietnamese leader Ngô Đình Diệm. Ftalmeida73 (talk) 22:35, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Again evidence from the BBC News, "Could other Arab countries follow Tunisia's example?" (Jan 14, 2011): "Arabs everywhere identified with Mohamed Bouazizi. When the 26-year-old Tunisian graduate - despairing of getting a decent job and abused by the police - set fire to himself in a public square, his story resonated far beyond his provincial town. When he later died of his injuries, he became both a symbol and a martyr."--JAR (talk) 22:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

This page should NOT be deleted. It should be instead improved.

This man is considered a notional hero in Tunisia, and will be remembered for many years. I wouldn't be surprised if a statue would be built once for him.

When I wanted to read about Tunisia's protests, I wanted to know about Mohamed Bouazizi. This is an example of the importance of this page. It would be a shame if there was no page.

Here are headlines explaining the importance of this page: How a man setting fire to himself sparked an uprising in Tunisia

Public suicide attempt sparks angry riots in central Tunisia

All4peace (talk) 04:22, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm strongly in favour for keeping the article, Wikipedia has always been, and will continue to be the ultimate reference of historical accounts. In view of this, I believe it will be a grief injustice in denying Mr. Mohamed Bouazizi the role he played in sparking the recent uprising in Tunisia, which ultimately lead to the toppling of the previous corrupt government headed by Ben Ali and his family. This is a historical event by all means, which in turn will define the future of Tunisia for generations to come. For one to give up his most precious possession which is his own life, in order for others to have a better future is someone we should all remember, he certainly deserves a better recognition

Furthermore, the life and death of Mohammed Bouazizi sum up the conditions of the Arabic world today in terms of high unemployment rates, especially among university graduate whom are unable to provide a respectable and decent living for their families. His single action might even play a more significant role if the recent uprising in Tunisia is followed by a “domino effect” in neighbouring countries in the region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siu02kw (talk • contribs) 00:07, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Keep

I suggest you to keep this article. His role in the 2010-2011 Tunisian protests is clear and important. 79.10.36.29 (talk) 22:48, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Calm down, this page ain't going anywhere

To all the posters above, looking at the consensus of the discussion on the nomination page, this page is not going to be deleted, so don't worry. However, you are welcome to improve the article by adding information and references. Pufferfish^1☢1 02:23, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

then why is it still marked for possible deletion? Anyone thinking the guy whose actions catalyzed the downfall of a 23-year-old dictatorship aren't notable - is just plain nuts. That's me the reasonable every-day middle-of-the road guy speaking. Pär Larsson (talk) 19:08, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Any user is able to mark an article for deletion, but if it is a clearly notable subject, then it will be kept. The current deletion discussion clearly shows that the article will be kept, but these discussions are meant to last for seven days, which is why the discussion is still ongoing. I repeat the words of Pufferfish above, no worries, the article will be sticking around. Silverseren^C 00:15, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Over ten years, people will still remember him that started the "Jasmin Revolution"

This man is who started the protests which led to the revolution in Tunisia. This man is a hero. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.210.19.18 (talk) 20:09, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Apparently the Tunisians themselves prefer the term "Intifada" instead of the whole "Jasmine" thing. See http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/0118/Tunisia-Not-a-Jasmine-Revolution-not-a-twitter-revolution-but-an Pär Larsson (talk) 19:09, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Code	Result
{{User:Lihaas/Tunisiaprotests}}	This user thinks that Mohamed Bouazizi is a hero and should be recognised as such.	Usage

(Lihaas (talk) 00:08, 19 January 2011 (UTC)).

Date and details of self-immolation?

Unless I'm mistaken, the date of the self-immolation is nowhere given in the article. Please add if you know. -- 77.189.109.38 (talk) 10:53, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Done. Glennconti (talk) 15:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I hate to be so morbid, but it seems this source (14 Jan) is cited as saying Mr. Bouazizi used two bottles of paint thinner for the act, while this one (13 Jan) is cited as saying he used gasoline. Please correct this contradiction if more information becomes available. Jaimalalatete (talk) 20:38, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

You are right. That is one of the reasons why there are multiple accounts of the immolation day in the article. There is also the curious contradiction of whether a) street vending is illegal or b) did he not have a permit. If it was a simple matter of purchasing a permit, then why not just do it? My personal conjecture is that street vending was legal and he was not required by law to have a permit, however the local police would shake down the lowly street vendors making their lives hell. As more solid details arise I'm sure the article will get refined. Glennconti (talk) 22:13, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Interesting article from the BBC on self-immolation from a muslim arab perspective

Why do people set themselves on fire? By Kathryn Westcott, 18 January 2011.

Self-immolation is a rare form of political protest, but in the past few days a number of incidents of men setting themselves alight have been reported in North African countries - Algeria, Egypt and Mauritania. [...] Self-immolation as a public protest is rare in the Muslim world, says Dr Michael Biggs, a lecturer at the department of sociology at the University of Oxford, who has researched self-immolation as a political protest. more

Should provide some material for the article. ^walk victor falk ^talk 16:14, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Name

Can someone who is fluent in Arabic take a look at ID card shown in this video here, for his name? You can see it at 1:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm0lDtW9ONM

Using Google Translate on the Arabic Wikipedia article the name shown in the infobox is Tarek al-Tayyib Muhammad ibn Bouazizi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.78.37.125 (talk) 22:21, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

• Twice IP users have changed the name to Tarek al-Tayyib Muhammad ben Bouazizi. They have done this unsourced though so I reverted it and I can't find a source that uses the ben'. If someone has a definitive source? WP France is just using the name Tarek Bouazizi - FYI. Glennconti (talk) 12:30, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Photo's

It looks like the photos in this article are going to go away due to copyright issues. Here are links to photo's of the immolation for anyone with the stomach for it:

1) http://i.imgur.com/sxIHh.jpg 2) http://i.imgur.com/Lbdjb.jpg 3) http://i.imgur.com/bzq0g.jpg

Glennconti (talk) 22:46, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

The above photo's 2) and 3) were shown NOT to be of Bouazizi. I don't know about 1). Glennconti (talk) 21:05, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Facebook???

Did Bouazizi really take time after the confrontation with the police woman to update his facebook page? The Time article said he killed himself less than an hour after the confrontation. So he had to a) go to the Governor's office and get rejected b) buy paint thinner c) update his facebook page d) ignite himself? And the second point - he was dirt poor. He certainly didn't have a computer or smart phone (I am supposing here) so that means he also went to an Internet cafe? To me it doesn't add up. So I am proposing we consider dropping the facebook suicide note material. Glennconti (talk) 03:35, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Try and follow the references please, they are there for a reason. There are screenshots of his message. None of this is original research, what matters is it's verifiable. Neither is there any evidence saying otherwise. Removing it would constitute original research. Until a more reputable source says the facebook message is not his, it can not be removed. And yes, his webcam pic in his facebook page indicates he uses an internet cafe.--Obsidi♠n^Soul 03:56, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Copycat

Many more are listed at 2011 Algerian riots#12 January: Self-immolations begin... - EmeutesAlgerie (talk) 16:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Some errors!!

You can find the photo of self-immolation on this page dated 03/23/2009 http://www.envazhi.com/?p=5470 which means it is inaccurate.

Someone raised the point, it is highly improbable Mohamed Bouazizi left a message on his wall on Facebook. Could he have written it from his bed at the hospital? What is the policy for Wikipedia when the source is more than likely to have forged the information?

The transliteration from Araby to Tunisian Arabic is incorrect. I corrected it twice. Anyone who reads and understands Arabic could correct it.

The translation to English is inaccurate. It shows the translator does not understand the Tunisian dialect. I am not criticizing the wording but even the meaning has been altered. You need to know that Arabic is very different from one country to another and even from one region to another. I made a small correction. I do not exactly know where the "original research" in my contribution is, anyways, you surely know better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.0.112.171 (talk) 20:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

• • The image of the immolation has been removed. Thank you for finding that and pointing it out. Glennconti (talk) 21:02, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

This is true and probably what Glennconti wanted to say earlier. However, back then we could not ascertain if the meaning was correct. Until now, his mother still hasn't said anything about the facebook message which is strange. But a lot of news sources do say he did leave a facebook message. Which leaves us with a problem.

It might count as a controversial subject for now. I will temporarily remove it until we can ascertain its truth. The article is still covered under WP:BLP since it is a recent death (and still very controversial). The message can be considered inflammatory or potentially libelous (especially after what you just pointed out concerning the picture used). The original source of the facebook message is less than credible and the reports of it from reputable news sources are all secondhand. Furthermore at the time, I tried to find Bouazizi's alleged facebook account with no luck, but then again maybe facebook took it down after the incident.

As for the translation I have requested before for those fluent in Arabic before to see if the translations were accurate. But yeah, it's Tunsi, and it's a different language altogether. Are there any Tunisian editors around? Or even just those who speak it fluent? Could you confirm as well?

Anyway for now, I will be moving the alleged facebook message to the following subpage as it is too controversial to remain there while we discuss this.

/allegedfacebookmessage

--Obsidi♠n^Soul 12:54, 23 January 2011 (UTC)