Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keith Famie

Keith Famie, Jeff Varner, Rodger Bingham, Greg Buis, Gervase Peterson, Nick Brown (Survivor), Tammy Leitner

Delete - nn survivor contestant pages, also possible Copyvio from some contestants' actual pages. -- Arnzy | Talk 13:47, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

• • On second thoughts, Keep Famie and Varner on the basis of the achievements outside of survivor that Rob has listed. Redirect Leitner untill/unless someone can write a decent article for her, and Delete everyone else. As for the the rest, which are non-notable, some articles has Copyvio in a few articles like this one which is pretty much pasted from their actual official contestant page. -- Arnzy | Talk 11:43, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment - Keith Famie's article may also run under Copyvio as some information seems to be pasted from his offical contestant page. The article may need to be cleaned up if kept. -- Arnzy | Talk 11:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. They don't survive WP:BIO, in my view. PJM 13:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all survivor articles are banned by order of the Tribe --Ruby 15:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I dunno, I'd personally be mildly inclined to keep winners. I don't see any winners here though, so I guess my point is kinda moot. Delete All. -- Saberwyn 20:41, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all as unremarkable. -- Krash (Talk) 20:46, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all losers. Actually, let me expand on that: these articles should never have been created in the first place. Reality show contestants are not notable: once the show is over, even the winner usually retreats to the obscurity form which they came. One or two, such as Jade Goody, become famous-for-being-famous, but the vast majority were never heard of before, and are never heard of after. I favour a minimum twelve month embargo on creation of any article on a reality show or contestant - it's not like we need to scoop anybody. Guy 23:39, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Of course if you did that, you'ld have to do it for most other types of articles. At which point, you would defeat the entire concept of a wiki, which allows for us to be vastly more up-to-date than most other publications. If we thought it was ok to be a year out-of-date, then we wouldn't have a system of instant publication. --Rob 09:44, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
    • No, I don't think so. I don't believe more than a tiny minority of articles document current events. Just zis Guy you know? 09:56, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
      • Actually, a pretty high perecentage of *new* articles, and recent edits to articles in general, relate to new events. That's a reason for having a wiki. If we didn't mind being out-of-date, then it would make far more sense for us to have a system where edits are reviewed, and not published to the public immedidately. Anyhow, an excellent example of us creating articles on the "recently notable" is our coverage of the Olympics. Every single day, many such bio articles are being made and/or substantially updated. I and many, other editors have made bio articles for people who weren't known widely until this month. Do you wish to impose a 12-month freeze on Olympic athletes as well? Perhaps, we shouldn't make bio articles on athletes, until they're proven to be famous long after the games are over? --Rob 10:17, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Change to keep for Famie, Varner, and Leitner per info on awards etc, delete the rest. As a failed survivor candidade, profoundly non-notable; as a journalist with one Emmy and four Emmy nominations, clearly notable. Just zis Guy you know? 09:56, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
• Delete all these those without clear outside notability; keep Tammy Leitner per Colin Kimbrell, no vote on Famie and Vartner. As in previous AfDs, I don't think notability attaches to non-winning contestants on such shows, and I question whether even the winners are notable unless they go on to sell records which are certified gold, sign major-label record contracts, get featured on TV appearances other than promo appearances on the same network, or otherwise generate evidence of meeting WP standards. Barno 19:45, 21 February 2006 (UTC) (changed vote Barno 14:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC))
• Keep Famie, Varner, and Leitner for achievements that are independent of Survivor (notable chefship, status as TV anchor, and Emmy Award-winning journalism, respectively); Merge the others to the relevant season of the show. The cases for the first two are borderline, but Leitner should be an absolute slam-dunk thanks the award. Discussions like the ones above make me wonder whether people actually read the articles before voicing their opinions here. -Colin Kimbrell 05:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  • This will sound strange: the fact each one is different, isn't a great reason to vote differently on each, in this case. It's a good reason to not have an AFD, and to just let individual editors do merge/redirects where appropriate, or improve individual articles where appropriate. I think a case could probably be made for redirecting all the articles, even Leitner in the *short* term. Once, they're in a better state, stand alone articles make sense for some (especially Leitner). Even Leitner is in a terrible undocumented/promo state at the moment. I think a basic issue with AFD, is we're voting based on one static point in time, but which articles should be stand-alone, and which should be merged/redirected is something subject to continuous/dynamic change. --Rob 10:36, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
• Keep all per precedent for comparable people on national hit reality shows. Given the poor quality of these articles, a better approach is to put in a redirect for the time being, unless/untill somebody turns into a proper article. There's really no reason for deletion here. I judge contestants on shows, like I would lead actors on a hit drama. The fact they're on a reality show, doesn't make them less notable. This shouldn't be a vote on whether people thing reality shows should be deemed noteworthy. Its whether they've been widely found to be, by others. It seems people are voting to delete because they *wish* these people were not notable. The great advantage of a redirect, is it can be undone easily, when the article is improved (especially with new information about the person). That's a better approach, than people making new articles from scratch (with new AFDs), or going to DRV. This whole thing could be taken care of in five minutes, with one person doing some redirects. That seems much more efficient. --Rob 09:36, 24 February 2006 (UTC)