Talk:Gynecomastia

rBGH

I'm sure this surge in absurd gynecomastia rates amongst boys for the past 50 years only coincides coincidentally with the period that the milk producers injected cows with rBGH (Recombenant Bovine Growth Hormone). Of course such information is verbotten on Wikipedia. Europes rates are much lower and they don't put hormones in their cows. With forced circumcision and chemical contamination by America's ruthless industries, one wonders if America is nothing more than a large guinea pig factory.

The (preventative) solutions for Gynecomastia (i.e. how to prevent it in your child):
1) Your wife should only drink rBGH free milk or goats milk
2) Reduce the meat and animal fat intake (Fish products are highly recommended but not shellfish or crustacean).
3) Don't eat grains baked softly. Always burn/toast your bread before eating. Make sure it is rock hard. The goal is to slow the rate of carbohydrate absorption by the body while keeping the feeling of fullness. Eat (al dente) pastas often.
4) Excercise.

Look at old people who were born before the medical industrial complex started mutilating and dosing children en masse. You don't see them walking around with double d's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.237.222.245 (talk) 13:10, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Unsigned seems pretty confident in his/her advice, but where are the references? Who says eating burnt toast is good for you? And does he have any evidence that there are male children with "double d's?" The ones on this page seemed a bit more...subtle. Circumcision is totally off topic. Savonnn (talk) 20:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Bench press

Does bench press help distinguish gynecomastia? Ripper404 (talk) 03:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments

I don't think Gilbert's Syndrome is a cause of gynecomastia. Does anyone have a reference for this? Cybergoth

We'll settle the issue later. At the moment the text was a copy & paste from here, and hence a copyvio. JFW | T@lk 23:26, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Feh. Looks like when I wrote the initial article I used that as my main source, but I rewrote it. It looks like 65.247.35.18 put in the copyvio a month later and I didn't notice, probably because the similarities between the versions made it look like it was just a very extensive copyedit [1]. Looking back at the diffs, though, even my original version may have too substantial a similarity in the opening paragraph to simply revert to that. Should've added an external link from the beginning, sorry about that. Bryan 23:57, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

I've been working on a major edit of this article, with references. I can re-write it some more and post it in the temp page later. Cyberoth 22:41 (EST), 11 August 2005

I've just posted the re-written article! Cybergoth 23:08 (EST), 11 August 2005

Beautiful! Could you expand the references to include authors, article name and PMID code. Just type PMID 12345678 and the Wiki will turn it into a link to PubMed. JFW | T@lk 07:30, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

I had done the research a while ago, so I don't have the details handy. I'll have to look them up later. Cybergoth 17:09, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

When is the subpage going to replace the old article? 216.218.44.237 17:54, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Does fat in the area stimulate growth of glandular tissue as well? I think I read somewhere that it does, meaning if you get fat, grow 'fat breasts', then lose weight, the breasts tend to remain.. or even that growing muscular pecs and letting them atrophy results in larger breast tissue.. as if anything even being 'in the area' stimulates growth. Can we find any sources for this? I know I read it somewhere. User:216.49.220.19

AFAIK - but I am no doctor - it is not fat in that area that stimulates this growth, but fat in general - testosterone is changed into estrogen far more in fat than in other tissue; hence, more fat, more estrogen, more growth of glandular tissue. And glandular tissue is indeed hard to loose again. -- AlexR 17:04, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Do post-adolescent men who decide to become eunuchs need to worry about developing gynecomastia? 208.188.2.101 19:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC)Mcd

Living with Gynecomastia

Is anyone going to add anything on Living with this condition? All I see is a need for medical intervention. What about accepting it and supporting it? Kit Triforce

Supporting them? JFW | T@lk 23:29, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Bad jokes like that just amplify the suffering.

Since this is almost always a purely cosmetic problem, what specifically did you have in mind in the way of "acceptance and support"? Believe me, all doctors would prefer that guys with this could see it this way. alteripse 00:49, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

It was not meant as a bad joke but as an ironic observation. If people elect not to have surgery this is "acceptance". Support, I agree, is difficult. It is not exactly a disability. JFW | T@lk 19:16, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I was just "appreciating" your wit. I know this sounds callous, but I am curious what the inquirer had in mind besides looking earnestly and sympathetically at the patient and saying, "Deal." Somehow I can't see support groups... alteripse 01:28, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Guess I should take credit for starting this. I feel like I'm the poster boy for "Living with Gynecomastia", as I have given multiple interviews on the subject. If anyone has seen the Channel 4 "Boys With Breasts" or the American version "Men With Breasts" on TLC/Discovery, I'm one of the guys who choose to live with the condition. I regularly wear a bra (50DD in US measurements) as it has made a world of difference in reducing back pain. I have come to "embrace" my condition (I love these puns, I find the "support" gag hysterical), as does my wife. As for support groups, one already exists via the link already posted in the main article. As to what I had in mind, I was thinking along the lines of explaining the commonality of this condition (I'm aware that my DD figure is way outside the norm) means that people experiencing this don't need to feel alone, or that surgery is the only option. As a strongly heterosexual male, I have come to accept and enjoy having breasts, feel they are a part of who I am, and am greatful for the strengths I have gained as a result of having them. I have a different perspective than most men my age, and that has changed me into the man I am today. I guess the gist of what I'm trying to add to this is that it's okay to be different, and that society needs a better understanding of this condition. Kit Triforce 17:49, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Why don't you modify that a little bit and add it intto the article? I was not aware of those tv shows (dont watch much) or any support groups. I still have trouble imagining a way to put a positive spin on your story for a distressed teenage boy. Very few show signs of being able to laugh about it if they have come to the doctor about it. I am very in favor of encouraging people to be less bothered by a difference like this but find it difficult to help someone else see it that way unless they already do. Jokes aside, this is clearly an emotionally distressing issue for many young men, especially those not able to afford mammoplasties, and maybe it would be worthwhile to have a non-porn website that offers positive perspectives on it. Do you know of any? How about putting one together? alteripse 18:13, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

---

I'm living with Gynecomastia myself, I started to develop it around the age 10. Kids teased me, both guys and girls, one girl said to me in gym class as we were jogging around "you have bigger breasts than I do" of course it took the rest of the day for me to come up with a wise remark for it like "everyone does" which I never was able to fire back with. My cousins even noticed them and teased, I am now 22 years old and I have never had a girl friend, 99.9% of the time I stay inside the house, which yes.. I live with "mommy" I have no job/income and can't see any future for myself as long as I am unable to find support from someone/anyone who can see this goes beyond the classification of being purely cosmetic. I know that for myself, any psychological attempt to make me "deal with it" will fail, because I have tried such attempts and that is how I obtained my G.E.D in college. It worked, but only for a limited time... eventually the stability of my mind shattered again and without giving reason, without showing up I simply stopped going to college. I cut off all contact with any friends or cousins and just sit here wasting away. As I look back at the start of my message "I'm living with Gynecomastia myself" I stop of think "am I really living?" I can't stand it when someone tries to tell me that the problem is not the gynecomastia but it is my view of the gynecomastia, or when they try to push drugs onto me telling me it's just depression. This is all false, gynecomastia is a disorder (Order being males having masculine chests, disorder being males having feminine chests) it is not always just cosmetic. If one person is able to live a normal life with gynecomastia that's great! More power to them, but there are some who just cannot, myself included. I have tried to force myself into the public, I always go into hiding. I have tried to "trick" myself and say "no one notices" and that too fails miserably, I try to act like I don't care what others think but the fact is that I do and I can't help that. I am unable to find any way for me to gain the funding necessary for surgery without the requirement to be around people, I have tried sites for government grants, I have written to the gov. and numerous surgeons who all say "we can't help you" I am afraid that if one day I finally do have the funding and get the surgery done that I will not know how to take care of myself in the real world because I have never known anything different than these walls which hide me. Will I know how to behave like a normal person? Forkingspoons

---

Forkinspoonds, I am deeply touched by your story! I used to be in the same boat. However, I got my breast removed by lipo... not cheap $1,200 on top of my government funded insurance. It does relief a lot of stress! I wish some day I can start a foundation to fund operation for people like you. For now, my pray goes out to you! Best Wishes and Happy New Year!

Charles Huang, Documentary Producer "Me vs. My Breast"ifireworks

I hate to be a party pooper, but it's starting to look like this talk page is turning into a general discussion forum. That's not what talk pages are for; see Wikipedia:Talk pages. We should stick to discussion of the article itself here. Does anyone have ideas for specific changes to the text they want to talk about? Bryan 02:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Forkinspoonds, I read your story. And I am really emphatic to your state of mind. I m having gynecomastia since I was 13 year old. The reason why I said that I understand your state of mind is not only because even I m suffering through the same condition but also the kind of thinking that u posses right now. Now read me carefully, U have to take life very seriously. First thing for u to do is find a well experienced surgeon or cosmotologist who would operate and remove those tissues because of which it has happened. Second thing, u have to pull yourself for a rigorous workout. Keep skipping for 20 mins three times a day in your own bedroom and sweat as much as possible. Later on get the surgery done as per the guidance of the surgeon. Make sure u talk to him very carefully about the tissues to be removed. And hey, u'll be a new person altogether. I m 26 year old, I had been researching on this since last 2 years with both aides of internet and books. After thorough study,research and meetings with numerous surgeons I manifested that its just an ABNORMAL EXPANSION OF GRANDULAR TISSUES WHICH ARE BETTER CALLED AS MALE-BREAST. Just loose as much as fats possible and prepare yourself mentally to go under the knife. Remember the verbiage "NO PAIN NO GAIN". There are thousands of people with such disorder, Forkinspoonds, so don't be scared to exhibit to any certified surgeon. I didn't remove my T-shirt or vest since the time I was 13 year old. I am getting under the knife in recent future with lot of positive attitude. And quite positive that things would turn for me now.--Kalex007 (talk) 05:22, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Example Picture Added

Hello - Just thought I'd add a picture of myself, as I am a Teeanger and I suffer from relatively severe Gynecomastia bought on from a combination of puberty and obesity (clinically diagnosed). Drop me a line im my talk if u wish to comment, or on this article. - Boochan 13:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC) - Boochan 13:36, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for adding your picture. - Cybergoth 03:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

No Problem - I've got a relatively unique body type and size... don't mind using pictures of it to help good causes such as this article. - Boochan 03:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Where is the picture, can u repost it?

"Manboobs" and other redirects

"Manboobs" redirects here. While I guess the term may be fitting for gynecomastia (if a little too derogatory for that context), I believe "manboobs" more often refers to what develops simply from too much fat. I have "manboobs" in that sense (I'm pretty sure I don't have gynecomastia) and I've been trying to work them off... Perhaps a separate article should be created? - furrykef (Talk at me) 20:32, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Manboobs are a mild form of gynecomastia. Face it. JFW | T@lk 20:59, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I was looking up "Moobs" as a joke and came across this page. While someone who is diagnosed with gynecomastia might be considered as having moobs (aka Man Boobs), someone can have moobs and not have gynecomastia. I think the article should be seperated since having moobs is not a medical condition.

That should be stated in the article, then. Disavian 19:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks like some contributor is a Fight Club fan, "bitch tits" redirects here.

This article seems to get vandalized regularly. I wonder if the various redirects from slang (eg. Moobs, Manboobs, etc) should be deleted? - Cybergoth 20:51, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the "Moobs" thing should re-direct here...it should have a seperate article, perhaps, discussing the fact that it is a deragatory term for this condition or obesity...it should be understood that it is a medical condition, and that it should not be referred to in any way that is considered offensive...Twitterpated. (talk) 01:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

If "man boobs" are to be discussed on Wikipedia at all (I believe the subject matter is too small and will not fill out an entire article), it should definitely be on a different page. Until then, there should be no redirects of man boobs to here and possibly just a fleeting mention of it here, such as, "It is important to note that gynecomastia is not the same as the enlarged breasts seen by men who have experienced weight gain, derogatively known as 'man boobs.'" JDCAce (talk) 05:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Lavender Oil and Tea Tree Oil

Why doesn't someone update the article to give the cause of the hormone imbalance in young children? A list of the products that should be regulated or outlawed should be included also. I would suspect that there are dozens of offending products. For details, check Lavender Oil or Tea Tree Oil in Wikipedia. . Somitcw 02:07, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

2006-07-01 Science News article:

Full article is only available to subscribers: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060701/fob8.asp

Non-subscribers can get to the table of contents: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060701/toc.asp

Non-subscribers can also see the references and sources: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060701/fob8ref.asp . Somitcw 07:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Add Alternate Terms?

Should we add the alternative terms to the article?

i.e. "Man-Boobies"

I realize that the terms may be humourous to some readers, but should we add them?

72.82.176.221 08:03, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Right now, there are redirects to this article from the various slang/alternate terms. I fear that adding them into the article will make it a magnet for vandalism. - Cybergoth 15:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

A redrect is best. Iolakana•T 20:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I added them to the article without seeing this discussion but I do feel that the colloquial names should at least be mentioned somewhere - if only to give a bit of context for the people that found the article by searching for 'bitch tits' or 'manboobs', etc. These terms are in very common use, after all. The fact that it *may* attract vandals shouldn't prevent the article from containing relevent information - vandalism can easily be dealt with. --Kurt Shaped Box 23:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I cannot think of/find another medical article which adds such so-called "alternate" terms in the main paragraph or introduction. Forget "may attract vandals" - this article *does* attract vandals. I really don't want to see this article locked down like the mental retardation article. - Cybergoth 04:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Heh, I found one with a couple of clicks. Have a look at Genu valgum. The Fatty liver article is named after the common term and has the medical name in the intro. My rationale for adding the slang terms (no vandalism/disruption intended) is that perhaps someone who has 'bitch tits' may actually look up the term, concerned about it - and may find it helpful to see the term down in black and white, linking it directly with their own medical condition. --Kurt Shaped Box 08:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but "knock knees" is arguably less derogatory than bitch tits. (A case can be made for renaming the fatty liver article too.) The penis article doesn't include the numerous slang words either. Also, I think there are too many slang terms for gynecomastia (moobs, bitch tits, man-boobs, man-boobies, gyno, etc.) - to include them all would detract from the main article. - Cybergoth 18:52, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Today a friend told me that having "bitch tits" was actually a medical condition. Since he didn't recall the official name for it, the only way I could find "gynecomastia" was to enter "bitch tits" into a search engine. As someone who used to be self-conscious about having what I considered a flabby chest, I'm glad people are mindful of the emotional harm inflicted by such phrases as "bitch tits" or "man boobs". But while I do not endorse the use of these terms, neither can I wish them away. Not only do they exist, but they may be the primary context through which certain segments of the population know about gynecomastia. For this reason, please retain the "redirects" and consider mentioning the various colloquial slurs, at least briefly, in the article. In addition to educating the public, making note of these derogatory terms might help some physicians, whose "bedside manner" may improve once they understand the specific ways a medical condition is likely to be stigmatized in the public realm.M. Frederick 21:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at the "Man-boobs redirect" section...Twitterpated. (talk) 01:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Before & after images

Aside from fact that images are placed at wrong location (under Causes rather than Treatment), it does not appear obvious that the "after" image is of the same patient. Both images are tagged as self-made, but do not seem to be of User:Paskari given the images of himself on his userpage. I think further information on the source of the images therefore needs to be given - see User talk:Paskari#Gynecomastia. David Ruben ^Talk 12:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Paskari has now removed the second image - Thank you David Ruben ^Talk 13:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Marijuana reference

"Marijuana use is also thought by some to be a possible cause."

Thought? Without reason? Is there a study that can be cited? NjtoTX 17:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

There were a couple of case reports in the medical literature in the 1970s (obviously without conclusive proof of a causal relationship) but I don't there has been any stronger evidence since then and most doctors today (many of whom inhaled in the 1970s) discount the possibility. I consider it an interesting example of distortion of critical analysis by too much social desire to have a substance blamed or exculpated (both directions). alteripse 18:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I too take SERIOUS exception to this CLAIM and other sources that indicate alchohol, steroids, obesity, etc as causes... all of these are results of the condition and trying to cope or self medicate- NOT causes. As if I dont have enough to worry about, without people judging me and accusing me of negative things as if this is somehow my own fault. Is everybody who researches this going to label me as a pot smoker and steroid user?

No one who researches gynecomastia thinks most young men with it are either one. Just check "gynecomastia" in pubmed and you will find no one has been publishing research on the old marijuana connection. Anabolic steroids account for a tiny percentage of gynecomastia in young men, and few are researching it because you can't easily do research on people doing illegal or foolish things. alteripse 21:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

If published data is contradictory to the idea that marijuana is a caus for gynecomastia, why is that idea included in Wikipedia? If Wikipedia wishes to be considered as a serious, reputable reference, shouldn't it be in conformance with all published data? 24.136.6.189 10:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)SammyG

muscle growth

I'm an 18 year old football player at the college level. I'm 6'2 and i weigh 250 lbs. I've been dealing with "man boobs" since I was probally 10 years old. No matter how much weight I lose or how hard I work out in the weight room, I have not been able to get rid of them. I've learned to deal with them basically by hiding them. I don't think that I've gone swimming in years just because I hate people asking me why I don't take my shirt off. My question is, does gynecomastia alter your muscle growth. Like I mentioned earlier, I am a football player and I have been lifting weights very hard for the past 5 years. I excelled in every area except one, my chest area. It's embarrasing because I barely bench. I'm putting up very low amounts despite the fact that I have worked and worked and worked to get stronger in my chest area. Whenever I lift upper body, my cheast hurts to the point where it's hard to eat but I gain nothing. Sometimes I think "they" have gotten bigger.If it does alter muscle growth, is there any way around it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.231.160.6 (talk) 17:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Pseudogynecomastia

The picture in the article is not true gynecomastia, when males appear to have breasts because of excess fat it is called Pseudogynecomastia[[2]] 24.175.111.135 17:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

This was made clear firstly in the picture description, and secondly unless my doctor is a quack, I have been diagnosed with slightly less then heavy gynecomastia, and my obesity adds onto what is already there in the first place which is why mine in the picture are so large. Besides, I am sure all but the most skinniest of males that have gynecomastia have a bit of pseudo on the top. This was what I was advised anyway. Boochan 00:35, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Despite the latest IP who reverted this actually comes from a Learning Institution, I find it quite ridiculous he is willing to make a judgment on a single picture, on wikipedia. I certainly hope its not a doctor, because a diagnosis from one picture of their been zero hypertrophy (that I have the underlying problem is proved since I developed it before I got as obese as I am, when I was around 11 and slightly overweight only) is just poor practice. - Boochan 12:07, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, wiki gets alot of this nonsense. Its probably former US senator Bill Frist, the doctor that can diagnose patients via video. He's gotten so good now I hear he can diagnose cancer via your email. Its amazing. --Art8641 19:49, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Added resources about Living with Gynecomastia, Stress of Dealing with Gynecomastia, Puffy Nipple Lay terms, and image galleries

I am a plastic surgeon and treat up to 8 gynecomastia patients a day from around the world. I have been dealing with helping the public learn about this condition for now more than 30 years.

Dealing with so many gynecomastia patients, it is hard to express their frustration with the public just not understanding the problem. The anger is intense and most cannot express themselves why they feel so stressed out about their problem. I put a video of a particularly eloquent patient describing his living with gynecomastia up to help family and others understand the Emotion Behind Gynecomastia. Unfortunately there is noting like hearing the stress in the human voice to emphasize the emotional component, it would have been nice to show the face, but then I would not have been permitted to share his experience. I added it as a reference as I thought it was the best way to show that such details were available to those trying to deal with this problem.

Public phrases like those listed puffy nips also include "bitch tits" but I did not know if that was permitted here. So many just do not recognize gynecomastia but the lay phases added.

Non-surgical compression garments have been a major source of stress relief for those waiting to see if their gynecomastia would resolve on its own, or were dealing with losing weight, or just could not afford surgery. This link is to examples of how effective / not effective garments can be for real life sufferers of gynecomastia. Fat people still look fat but the bouncing is stabilized. Many have told me of the differences the garments have made their lives. The parents of one 14 year old child from Trinidad told me he was a different person just from use of the garment while waiting the year his endocrinologist wanted for his medical condition to stabilize. The actual surgery made a greater difference.

Gynecomastia comes in so many differnt forms that the limited pictures just does not tell the story well at all. The Gynecomastia Gallery link is a much more comprehensive method of demonstrating the problem.

Hope the additions were according to form.

DrBermant 10:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Restored deleted resource previously reviewed by many here deleted by Gc2: http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Gynecomastia&diff=prev&oldid=120635418--Plastic Surgeon 11:31, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Thats fine, as its defintely not operating as a free plug for your services from what I can see. - Boochan 11:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

From my interpretation of Wikipedia:Attribution, it seems like these links should be replaced with free or verifiable alternatives as soon as possible. In the case of images, I should note that I am organizing an effort to provide similar images on the Commons. In the case under discussion, while it's notable that Dr. Bermant is obviously a "recognized expert", the self-linking falls, in my interpretation, in grey areas covered by the Using questionable or self-published sources section of WP:A. In other discussions (which I can't now seem to find - I thought they were either in the Klinfelter's syndrome discussion archive or in one of User:Alteripse's discussion archives), Plastic Surgeon has asserted that his site is peer reviewed to some extent, but it is not a journal or other official recognized verifiable source (according to Wikipedia policy/guidelines - like a journal article or newspaper article). Note that we're out of the realm of guidelines and into the realm of policy.

Since this linking Plastic Surgeon is something he is repeatedly doing (look at his contributions), and other editors have objected (see his Talk page), and this linking lies, I think, in the grey area of Wikipedia:Attribution, WP:SPAM, and possibly other guidelines/policies, I'd advise User:Plastic Surgeon desist until an opinion is reached, rather than continue the practice of apparently considering his self-produced links most authoritative. I think it's pretty obvious from the policies that his self-produced links should be used only if there is no better alternative. --MalcolmGin 12:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. The reason for adding it back in was for viewer experience to learn about gynecomastia. Check out what images are available

http://medicine.ucsd.edu/Clinicalimg/Thorax-gynecomastia.jpg - 1 image

http://images.webmd.com/images/hw/media69/medical/hw/n5551142.jpg - 1 image

http://www.seykota.com/tribe/FAQ/2006_Apr/21/gynecomastia.jpg - 1 image

http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/gynecomastia_gallery/index.html - organized access to several thousand images of gynecomastia before and after surgery classified to the many different forms that gynecomastia can take. To my knowledge it is the biggest resource of images of gynecomastia in the literature or world published in any form accessible to the public for free.--Plastic Surgeon 12:26, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Bitch Tits

There are many phrases my patients use to describe their gynecomastia. The most common are puffy nipples, puffed nips, gyno, and man boobs. Another one is "bitch tits." It is used mostly among my bodybuilder patients. It has been amusing watching that term appear and disappear with different editors adding it and other removing it as "spam." I suggest adding it and leaving it.--Plastic Surgeon 10:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Its a reference from the movie Fight Club, which would be obscure on a worldwide basis. Its also so we don't end up getting a mass amount of everyones favorite name for gyne. I'll keep them this time since its been done by someone reputable and not a random IP who has probably heard the reference and put it there without intent of actually informing people. - Boochan 12:37, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

It might be good to have these terms, but don't say something like "this condition is also known as...", but rather something like "this condition is sometimes called...". Just to avoid any offensiveness or bias. That's all. Twitterpated. (talk) 01:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Advertising

Per WP:ADVERT, I have removed what is a thinly digisued advertisement for Compression Vests. Maybe if you can re-write it without plugging your website or been a POV Pusher for your production, I will leave it. User:Plastic Surgeon's edits are justified because he is not trying to plug his website or Pushing a specific Point of View across. I Myself will be patrolling this page and removing all advertising thats attempted to be put through from now, because its just not acceptable - Boochan 07:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Would be extremely interested to hear your opinion of the two remaining references in this article that point to User:DrBermant's (notice the redirect) site, numbers 4 and 12. WP:ADVERT or not? This has direct bearing on other similar edits that have been made to topics that are related to User:DrBermant's line of business. I have encountered similar edits on Klinefelter's syndrome and argued for their removal (past versions of the page included many links to User:DrBermant's business web site). Informational pages or not, should these pages be used as references when they are not officially, obviously refereed? --MalcolmGin 01:12, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

You have already asked my opinion about this and I will give it again publicly. Until we have an equivalent noncommercial source, the usefulness of the material overrides the disadvantage of a commercial source. Period. Let's put it in External links with a full description, including that it is a commercial site. Please put as much energy into adding good material to the articles than you have been putting into removing it. If you really think you are expressing community consensus on these two articles, please request community comment. Thanks. alteripse 14:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I was not asking your opinion, Alteripse, but Boochan's. Please do not presume to answer for Boochan unless he says so. Thanks. --MalcolmGin 14:48, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Looking at WP:RFC it seems to me that requesting for comment on either User:Plastic Surgeon's methods or on Gynecomastia, Klinefelter's syndrome or other articles where User:Plastic Surgeon has contributed and been called out for spamming may be too early, as I feel, as you apparently did at one time, that we could discuss this and find other alternatives. If you do not feel this is so, perhaps you should file for comment. --MalcolmGin 14:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I have, however, just posted this article (along with others with a similar editing profile by User:Plastic Surgeon) to Wikiquette alerts, a place where editors can go to request more informal opinions by other editors about issues just like the one we're discussing here. I've tried to present as balanced a view as I'm constitutionally capable of doing. Please pardon the extremely circuitous language about identity. That's part of the page's policy, as is the unnamed signature there.--MalcolmGin 21:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding this, would it be possible to remove the address information from the author of the 'before and after surgery' images, as it seems like showing someone's condition before and then after cosmetic surgery and then supplying the surgeon's contact details thereafter is blatant self-advertising? In this context I would have thought that only the 'before' images are necessary. especially when such surgery is unnecessary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.77.37 (talk) 23:25, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

first hand experience

i am not fat at all, however, i have breasts that protrude about 2cm forward of me. its terrible. i really want to have surgery, i have read that people suffer this for years before it goes down. i have suffered for about 4 - 5 months, i can't wait any longer. is there ANY kind of treatment????????? :( —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.44.158.81 (talk) 10:52, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Check the External Links. - Boochan 13:39, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Alternative reactions to Gynecomastia

Although the most prevalent published reactions to gyno seem to be negative and driven by the experience of social reaction rather than one's own personal sense of well-being. It is clear that some gyno cases are iatrogentic, that is the consequence of medical treatment. Bodybuilders can easily develop gyno by improperly or deliberately manipulating their hormonal supplements (primarily through unopposed exogenous injection of Testosterone and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) or Human Menopausal Hormones (HMH=LH+FSH)). One might call this auto-iatrogenic gynecomastia since it results from self-prescribed medical intervention. Competitive bodybuilders and those concerned about displaying a hyper-masculine body image try to avoid this form of gyno by limiting cycles and using a large array of anti-estrogens, anti-aromatases, SERMs, etc. both on and off cycle. Others more focused on their own perceptions of their body have discovered that a great increase in erotic nipple and breast sensitivity accompanies this type of gyno, especially if allowed free development. They have learned that the developed male nipple is an important male sex organ. There is a significant community of men with moderate to extreme gyno who will experience ejaculatory orgasm under nipple/breast stimulation. Still more will experience a non-ejaculatory "chest orgasm" that often extends to the pectoral muscles, which seem to receive some sort of stimulation through the nipple. These men enjoy their gynecomastia to a great degree and would never consider any sort of surgical intervention that would affect this acquired sensitivity.

Evidence for this abounds on the areas of the web devoted to bodybuilding and erotica if one makes a little effort. I have no idea if gyno caused by an actual medical (defect of hormone secretion or clearance) or behavioral (overeating?) condition produces similar effects. It would be reasonable to expect that gyno originating from hormones would yield enhanced sensitivity and response, although there could easily be a large genetic predisposition as well. Since gyno almost naturally develops in elderly men, is there a possibility that this should actually be viewed as a final stage of sexual maturation, finally giving access to the erotic potential of the nipple? Or is the sex drive in the elderly too weak to realize this?

I am interested if anyone would agree with me that something along these lines should be at least mentioned in the main article. At present, the tone of the article reads like hype from the medical community, unattenuated by reality. Even though the article's statements are mostly supported by evidence, there is plenty of additional evidence from outside the medical community that shows that the medical view is rather narrow and (dare I say?) Calvinistic. Ldmjr (talk) 01:42, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

beta hCG and Gynecomastia

Hi gyus, I've tried all day long to find out how beta-hCG, produced by some special subtypes of testical cancer cells can make Gynecomastia. What I found was that beta-hCG binds to the same receptors than LH. Somehow it has to increase Estrogen, but I have no idea. Some help would be great. Thanks

hCG binds to LH receptors. That is how it works in both women and men. In the testes, LH stimulates testosterone production and FSH stimulates sperm production, to make it simple. Excess testosterone aromatizes to excess estrogen (which normally shuts down pituitary LH secretion until T levels fall). Exogenous hCG triggers gyno through this pathway. Although hCG has been used to improve male fertility, it is generally accepted that HMG (Repronex) is much more effective because it also stimuates spermatogenesis. FSH without high intratesticular T (induced by LH or hCG) does not induce sperm formation. Ldmjr (talk) 01:42, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Image

Can we make it so the image doesn't show up on the page straight away? Like a link to click on instead. - The Daddy 11:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Only wikipedia's own stored images are appropriate to link to (ie confirmed fair use etc), so we should not have links to images off-site. Exception perhaps in External Links section if a good source to point to, but that should be for information which is beyond teh scope of what should be included if an article were to be at Featured Article status.

Given the image store is for use within articles, it is not general policy to provide the link to images vs the images themselves, instead they are translocated and incorporated into relevant articles by the standard image display markup.

What is the reason for your suggestion - if it is that the image seems a little too large, this can be reduced from within the infobox. If though the objection is that the image is distasteful, then this would be the same issue as previous discussions held about images of say breasts on breast page, or pathology images on other disease topics. As I understand things, generally wikipedia does not follow "prudish" self-censoring and it has been thought appropriate to illustrate conditions if suitable clear (and GNU free licence) images are available. David Ruben ^Talk 12:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

• I'm not sure how many the article needs, but Image:Overweight biker.jpg is another image that could be used. GregManninLB (talk) 01:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Treating gynecomastia

It's a good idea to get your hormone and prolactin levels tested. It can be caused by prolactin, estrogen and progesterone. Eliminate any steroid or estrogenic intake, including steroidal aromatase inhibitors such as formestane. All steroids contribute to gyno more or less. Eliminate any drugs that deplete dopamine such as antipsychotics. Use cabergoline 0.5-1 mg/week to reduce prolactin and shrink the nipple area. Use an AI such as arimidex to decrease estrogen and restore test/est balance. Add tamoxifen if necessary to block estrogen and boost testosterone. Cabergoline will show visible shrinkage within a week of the nipple area, the others takes months to get an effect. Do not stop the drugs without monitoring for rebound spikes in prolacting or estrogen. Use a topical fat burner such as TD theophylline on the breast tissue. Topical dihydrotestosterone may be tried but be careful as it could worsen it. Treatment takes up to 1-2 years. 93.161.104.154 (talk) 13:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)