Talk:Royal Navy

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Royal Navy's defeats

Why doesn't explains that article some defeats of RN during 18th century? e.g.: Spanish victory in the War of Jenkin's ear at "Cartagena de Indias" (1741); this battle involved 186 British ships, 50 of them were destroyed. The magnitude of battle drove government to censure the event. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.39.55.116 (talk) 14:13, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The above anon has a very good point. This article is a bit rosy on the RN in general. Catagena des Indies needs to be mentioned. Buckshot06 (talk) 08:45, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

See Talk:Royal_Navy/Archive_3#Battle_of_Cartagena. Woody (talk) 09:57, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I was aware of the debate on the talk page when I made the insert. User:Nick-D properly says that the article has a trend to be positive, and thus mentioning the largest defeat seems appropriate. However, if any of the exact numbers etc need changing, please anyone sing out!! Buckshot06 (talk) 10:17, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure why the sentence on the Battle of Cartagena de Indias was removed, but this issue involved much research and an ardous discussion some time ago, not to mention the obvious historical importance of the event. I wish new editors would respect previous work by others. This was the consensus sentence agreed earlier [1]:

• The middle part of the century was occupied with the War of the Austrian Succession and the lesser known War of Jenkin's Ear against Spain. In the latter war, the British deployed a very large force under Admiral Edward Vernon in the Battle of Cartagena, aiming to capture this major Spanish colonial port in modern day Colombia. Following an able defense assisted by strong fortifications, and the ravages of disease, the British failed in their attempts.

As the wording of the paragraph has changed, I have inserted the sentence starting with "In the latter war, the British deployed a very large force..." JCRB (talk) 18:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Royal Navy's Supremacy

The article claims the Royal Navy was the most powerful navy in the world from the nineteenth century to the middle of the twentieth century. But wasn't the Royal Navy the most powerful navy from the middle of the 18th century itself? If I remember right, their supremacy was never challenged by any other navy till WW1 after Britain won the seven years' war. They emerged the dominant colonial power by 1763 and that almost literally translates to naval dominance. Undoubtedly, it only became more powerful by 1815, but it still was the most powerful navy 1763 onwards, correct me if I'm wrong.

Until Trafalgar, though usually the dominan naval power, there were other navies that at times achieved local successes (and even after Trafalgar the USN achieved some single-ship victories during the War of 1812). With the Franco-Spanish fleet broken, there was no longer any realistic challenger to naval supremacy, particularly once the War of 1812 was resolved. David Underdown (talk) 12:26, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Royal Navy was indeed the most powerful navy in the world scince the mid 1700s, but it wasent until Trafalgar in the first decade of the 1800s that the Royal navy enjoyed total naval supremacy (1806-1913). During this time obviously some other naval powers had acheived minor ship to ship combat, but nothing that could actualy threaten British naval power. Come 1914 after a decade of a german naval arms race germany finaly challenged the Royal navy. Thus ended a centuary of total british supremacy at sea. However the Royal navy as we know still ruled the seas and the worlds most powerful navy right up to 1942.

Basicly look at it like this, late 1760s - 1940s Royal navy most powerful on earth, during this time 1806-1913, Royal navy enjoyed a massive gap of naval supremacy over its other naval rivals. In other words 1806-1913 was the Royal navys golden age. It is also said the Royal navy was arguably the most powerful or atleast most well placed and prosporus navy in the world prior to the 1760s. eg 1710-1760s. Recon.Army (talk) 17:24, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

The phrase used is not "total naval supremacy", it's "most powerful navy in the world". If you want to add a sentence to the intro about the period of total naval supremacy go ahead, but that's not what's under discussion here. It was already the most powerful navy in the world by 1700, following a period of alternating pre-eminence with the French, who last held pole position in the 1690s. After 1700 that situation prevailed without interruption until around the start of the Second World War (see tables in N. A. M. Rodger, The Command of the Ocean, pp. 607-8 for an impression of the fluctuations in relative fleet strength in the later 17th and 18th centuries). Zburh (talk) 16:37, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

"the dominant world power from 1815 until arguably 1954" Who put that line in there? It appears to have been 41.220.68.1, an IP that's currently blocked, for destructive/vandalizing edits. On that subject, though, It's kind of hard to concieve of the UK being the world's superpower at the end of WW2; by which most British forces were, on the field, subordinate to a US theater commander. (such as Operation Overlord commanded by Dwight Eisenhower) Even before WW2, the USA had already become the world's dominant economic power, and likewise held globe-spanning posessions. And let's also not forget that the Royal Navy technically and officially ceased to be supreme in 1922, with the signing of the Washington Naval Treaty, agreeing to parity with the USA. Overall, at best, Britain was ONE of the dominant world powers from that point onward; more likely, its unquestioned supremacy evaporated prior to World War I, where it found itself allied as equals with France and Russia in the Triple Entente. Once the UK could no longer maintain its Splendid isolation, it was clear it wasn't the dominant world power any more; the world would be without a clear superpower until 1945.

Thus as we can see, that period extended only from 1815 (Waterloo) to 1907. (Triple Entente) Royal Navy supremacy of the seas had a bit bigger range; from 1805 (Trafalgar) to no later than 1922. (Washington Naval Treaty) Just because there was no one else to be unquestionably supreme didn't mean the British Empire continued to be so. The pre-WW2 era showed strong evidence of being Multipolar in nature. Nottheking (talk) 04:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't want to muddy the waters any further, but I would like to point out that the RN wasn't the most powerful navy until after Trafalgar. I had been the most effective since the middle of the 18th century, but it didn't have any advantage in terms of number of ships, ship design, etc. It was the quality of English seamanship (and gunnery) that made it so important, not raw power. 81.187.148.35 (talk) 15:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Very nice article

Well-written, clear and well assembled, kudos to whoever had a hand in this! Huw Powell (talk) 01:53, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Aircraft Carriers

-Can anyone tell me why the article claims that the last RN Aircraft Carrier was HMS Ark Royal? HMS Hermes served as the flagship during the Falklands war. After the war she was converted to a commando carrier before finally being sold to the Indians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.159.145 (talk) 17:11, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

• Three Invincible class aircraft carriers were built in the 1980s and are still in service.--Jim Sweeney (talk) 17:40, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Only two are still in service, Invincible has been out of commission and mothballed for several years. There is a position that she's in reserve but she's at 18 months notice for sea.

ALR (talk) 20:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

The current flagship is Ark Royal, Illustrious is still in service but as I recall currently in maintenance.

ALR (talk) 20:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

The article doesn't say "last RN Aircraft Carrier"; it says "last fleet carrier". The question, I suppose, comes in the interpretation of the term. I'll add a link to fleet carrier. David Biddulph (talk) 06:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Blue water navy?

"The Royal Navy is a blue water navy and the second-largest navy of the NATO alliance" this is no longer true as the RN has no longer any aircraft carrier. The Royal Navy has been superceded in importance in the NATO alliance by the French Navy an is no longer a blue water navy. Maybe the whole paragraph should be rewritten by the original author to fit present situation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.78.0.134 (talk) 15:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

There are still two aircraft carriers in service HMS Ocean (L12), HMS Illustrious (R06) with HMS Queen Elizabeth (CVF) and HMS Prince of Wales (CVF) being constructed. --Jim Sweeney (talk) 18:35, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

HMS Illustrious, if kept, will only be used as an helicopter carrier, HMS Ocean is only an helicopter carrier, both the CVF are not built yet. With the retirement of the harrier, the Royal Navy has no carrier borne aviation and will not have until F35 and CVF are operational, which they are not.

Thus, it is not a blue water navy anymore nor is it the second-largest navy of the NATO alliance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.86.4.41 (talk) 07:23, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Blue Water is the ability to deliver military effect at extended range and for a sustained period. The ability to support that with fixed wing fighter aircraft is only one component of delivering that effect. The harrier force has been optimised for other aviation activities for some time, and those activities can be delivered using other assets, potentially including UAVs launched from the deck of Illustrious, Ocean, Albion, Bulwark or the Bay class.

Given that the RN has sustained operations at range from the UK mainland, and will continue to do so, therefore is clearly a Blue Water Navy.

If, on the other hand, you can offer up a credible, reliable source that's written by someone who knows what they're on about then feel free to present an alternative wording for the article.

ALR (talk) 09:48, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree with ALR. The number of aircraft carriers that a navy has is not the only measure of its strength. A good example of this was the cold war, when the RN didn't have a snowball in hell's chance of having a a surface fleet of the type operated by the Americans. However, the RN contributed to the defence of NATO by stopping any Russian nuclear subs that were trying to get into the Atlantic. This resulted in a small navy with high quality subs and small ships. This is an area of Naval warfare which is often ignored, but just as important as any other. I would recommend that whoever you are, you find out what you are talking about before complaining too loudly. 81.187.148.35 (talk) 15:27, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Royal Navy reduced to a tiny escort fleet, no carriers, small SSN fleet and nothing but a name to give it any respect around the world. Pathetic!! A blue water navy must be able to operate in any ocean anywhere in the world, delivering military power over long periods of time. Also a blue water navy must be able to do so while deterring aggression from rival naval powers. Fact is, with the Royal navy loosing its carriers and its reduced escort fleet, if Britain were to operate in the Indian ocean and India decided to pose a military challenge against the British task force, the Royal navy would have no option but to return to the UK with its tail between its legs. Royal Navy can no operate in any ocean and at the same time deter aggression. Now in the same situation, if Britain still had its carriers and harriers, India wouldn't dare openly pose a military threat to any British task force. I'm using India as an example of a somewhat capable regional military power, and know full well that India is both our ally and would never oppose British operations in the Indian ocean. 194.46.189.197 (talk) 19:27, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Royal Navy is now on par with Spain, Germany, Australia, south Korea, Canada. None are blue water navy's. 194.46.189.197 (talk) 19:27, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Indeed the Royal Navy is still a blue water navy, not to mention the ships now in development, not only the Queen Elizabeth class carriers, but also new frigates with the Future Surface Combatant programme. However good to see both the French (80.78.0.134) and Irish (194.46.189.197) so concerned over the RN, very touching. --SuperDan89 (talk) 09:31, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

why are reserve ships included in the size

in reviewing other navies on wiki, no one list reserves of mothball fleets, it appears that the author of this page wants us to believe that the RN is actually larger then it is.... ? current deploy-able ship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.190.226.178 (talk) 10:47, 9 February 2011 (UTC)