Talk:Yom HaShoah

Move and Merge

I have moved material from Holocaust Remembrance Day and Yom Ha'Shoah to this article and combined all three. Those other articles are now redirects to this article. Gareth Hughes 19:51, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Holocaust Remembrance Day didn't actually link here, it linked to Holocaust Memorial Day, so I fixed it. I think most people looking for Holocaust Remembrance Day (i.e. all non-British readers) intend to go here. Jayjg | (Talk) 20:25, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I had made Holocaust Remembrance Day a redirect to Holocaust Memorial Day, and made the latter a disambiguation page that linked to Holocaust Memorial Day (UK) (which, as a British citizen, is foremost in my mind) and Yom HaShoah. I created the disambiguation page with the thought that if there are similar memorials around the world (though I know of no others) they could be listed there. I thought it better to give readers a choice. Granted that Holocaust Remembrance Day is the usual English rendering of Yom HaShoah, readers may actually be looking for the other day. Gareth Hughes 22:02, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I strongly suspect most people (other than British citizens) would be looking for the Yom HaShoah page. Jayjg | (Talk) 22:11, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

As you suspicions are strong, I have added a link to Holocaust Memorial Day (UK) among other thinks to the article. I may live on a small island, but I feel it is important to take this opportunity to remember. Gareth Hughes 23:10, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, your solution is excellent. Jayjg | (Talk) 23:12, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Commemoration

Would it be possible for someone to add a bit more information about how Yom Ha'Shoah is commemorated? I'm a bit ignorant in Jewish practices, and living on the other side of the planet from my family, but I do want to do something this year. Kitty 09:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Antisemitic edits

Lot's of anti-Semetic nonsense being posted constantly which is completely irrelevant.

Vandalism

Greetings all! I just reverted some obvious vandalism on this article. If you made some edits, please double check. Jerry G. Sweeton Jr. 14:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

my english is not perfect

can you really call it a holyday??

• You mean holiday? This one is just as important as any WW II remembrance. Every country has their own national holidays even if the holiday seems to have no relevance on anyone outside of the country but it is is still called a holiday. i.e. President's Day to non-US Residents.

I believe you are misunderstanding the English word "holiday". In modern usage, "holiday" does not refer to religious days only, but secular days of commemoration as well.--Pharos 00:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

In British English usage, "holiday" also means what US English calls a "vacation", i.e. time off for pleasure travel and relaxation. Neither is Yom HaShoah a "holy day" as it isn't part of the Jewish liturgical calendar, but a memorial day in Israel. Hence the most accurate description is "memorial day" or "day of remembrance." -- Deborahjay (talk) 07:53, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Capitalization

Should the S in Yom Hashoah really be capitalized? It goes against Yom Hazikaron and Rosh Hashanah, where the first letter after the "ha" prefix is not capitalized. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 17:58, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Among Hebrew:English translators, there's no single canonical standard for transliteration style. E.g. sometimes the definite article prefix ha- is set off with a hyphen to discriminate it from the following noun or adjective, also as an aid to pronunciation by those unfamiliar with Hebrew. As for capitalization, the editor is likely to follow the rules of the target language/country for proper nouns, titles, etc. As Holocaust is always capitalized in English when referring to the Nazi-era annihilation of European Jewry, its Hebrew name Shoah is usually capitalized in transliteration. As a professional translator specializing in Holocaust material, I favor both the hyphen and capitalization I've described here. -- Deborahjay (talk) 08:01, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

2007 commemoration in Israel

See question at Wikipedia:Main Page/Errors. Thanks.--Pharos 15:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Should we be calling it Yom HaZikaron Lashoah?

Wouldn't either Yom Hashoah or Yom Hashoah vHagvurah be more appropriate a name. I have never heard it called Yom HaZikaron Lashoah and it might get confused with next week's holiday, Yom HaZikaron. --Valley2city^₪‽ 16:42, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I think we should move it back to Yom HaShoah. The Israeli government does use "Yom HaShoah" in the English section of its website.--Pharos 18:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Alright the Ministry of Foreign Affairs calls it Yom Hashoah so that is where I'm moving it to. --Valley2city^₪‽ 21:12, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Yonatan moved it to Yom Hashoa which is a great improvement. However, under the "google test" that extra "h" produces almost 10 times more entries. I'm going to update my entry on Requested Moves for administrator assistance to finalize the move to Yom Hashoah. Meanwhile, I have temporarily fixed the double and triple(!) redirects and led them to Yom HaShoa. --Valley2city^₪‽ 00:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I've edited the name in the first paragraph to give full vs. colloquial-abbreviated versions in Hebrew, English, and :he:en: transliteration. I support keeping the page name but will add further disambiguation, particularly in light of the 2007 EU-wide adoption of an annual International Holocaust Remembrance Day on January 27. -- Deborahjay (talk) 08:18, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Insertion of "[sic]" in the quotation at the end of the section "Orthodox Judaism and Yom HaShoah"

Why has "[sic]" been inserted here? Is it being used to express linguistic distaste at the use of the word "memorialization" as one more word formed by having the suffix "ization" added to a noun (a distaste, which even if I, too, sometimes feel it, is irrelevant)? Is it being used to express disagreement with the content of the quote? (If the latter, then it is POV.) Although I feel inclined to delete it, I am willing to wait for a constructive explanation before doing so.CWO (talk) 19:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

In the absence of any response after two weeks, I am deleting "[sic]".CWO (talk) 10:03, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

FYI, I agree. I was just too lazy to write down my approval. --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 10:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Yom HaShoah → Holocaust Remembrance Day — The move request is per WP:COMMONNAME. The common name of this holiday amongst English speakers in Israel is Holocaust Remembrance Day. Proof is via the local English language press (Haaretz, Jerusalem Post and Ynetnews). The options avaiable get the following number of hits:

• Holocaust Remembrance Day: 205 + 214 + 71 = 490
• Holocaust Memorial Day: 168 + 89 + 103 = 360
• Holocaust Day: 68 + 83 + 128 = 279
• Yom HaShoah: 10 + 18 + 28 = 56

Clearly Yom HaShoah is the last title this article should have in the English wikipedia. Number 57 15:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' ''or'' *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Support As nominator. Number 57 15:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose thanks for at least trying to do one page move right out of four. The name of this day is in Hebrew speciffically for Israel. There is no need to translate every Hebrew (or foreign) name, day, and holiday into English for the title, in the same way many other non-English names are left as is out of respect, this is not about COMMONNAME. There are many terms around the world that do not need translating including this day and the others. --Shuki 17:59, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

• But this is what English speakers living in Israel call the day. No-one ever talked to me about Yom HaShoah when we were conversing in English. Similarly we do not call Bastille Day "Fête Nationale". Number 57 08:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

• Support, yes the name should stay Yom HaShoah in the hebrew wikipedia. But we are supposed to use english here. Beseder? ابو علي (Abu Ali) 18:34, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

• comment Abu Ali, would you support moving the page on Eid ul-Fitr to 'Breaking the fast'? How about Sham El Nessim? Please comment on other Islamic festival/holy days in Category:Islamic Holy days. I support keeping those as is, would you? --Shuki 20:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

• English commonly uses the foreign words for religious holidays but the English word for national holidays. Yom HaShoah is a national rather than religious event. Number 57 08:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose per Shuki.--DLand^TALK 19:22, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose - Shuki's logic makes sense. --Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor (ταlκ) 22:15, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose. Here in England they are different days. Yom HaShoah is the 27th of Nisan by the Jewish calender, and therefore moves up and down the Christian calendar. Britain's Holocaust remembrance day is 27 January, the Christian calendar anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz. Anthony Appleyard 16:48, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 19:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Separation of Church and State

I was wondering whether separation of Church and State norms also apply to Yom HaShoah, especially when it is celebrated outside Israel ? For instance, if a secular government, either national, regional or local, chooses ot commemorate the Holocaust along with the Jewish community, and various rabbis or other community representatives are invited over, isn't there a possibility of mixing religion with the government ? In the Jewish community, Yom HaShoah has acquired a very religious character, and the memorial and sacrificial character of the feast is in some ways similar to the Catholic liturgy, which is a memorial to the sacrifice/holocaust of Jesus on the cross. If a secular government ever chose to commemorate the death of Jesus, there would be a great deal of public outrage, but the same norms do not necessarily apply to the Jewish memorials and ceremonies, which is in some ways questionable. ADM (talk) 22:04, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Yom HaShoah is widely ignored by religious Jews. The big rabbis have decided that Tisha BeAv (and according to the Israeli state chief rabbinate, the Tenth of Tevet) should the day(s) to remember the Holocaust. Reasons? It's in the month of Nissan, which is a month of happiness and it is forbidden to hold mourning activities (other than the Counting of the Omer) during this time. Secondly, we do not have the power/authority to institute new days for future generations to observe. The secular State of Israel decided to declare this day, which even the pro-State Religious Zionist state chief rabbinate was opposed to. Let alone the Haredim, who detest it. I have no idea of any (Orthodox) Jewish community that 'observes' Yom HaShoah in any way. Perhaps the Chief Rabbi of whatever city it is about will attend some ceremony organized by the secular Jewish leadership of some community, but it isn't the rabbi or any religious organization that organized such a ceremony. Read the article for more about it. Also see here: http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/chareidiview.htm . --Piz d'Es-Cha (talk) 15:35, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Gregorian Dates

I created this section, and added this years date, could someone add some more - I don't understand the Jewish calendar, and it seems quite important.93.96.148.42 (talk) 05:24, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Um, not sure about it being moved to not fall on a Sunday - every source I see has it falling on the 11th in 2010...(Sunday is *not* the Jewish sabbath, perhaps that's the confusion?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.94.39 (talk) 20:50, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

No. Yom Hashoah is in fact being commemorated today (Monday, April 12). The problem with commemorating Yom Hashoah on Sunday is its proximity to Saturday, which *is* the Jewish sabbath. More to the point, the sabbath is Friday night till Saturday night, and Sunday is Saturday night till Sunday night. If Yom Hashoah were to be commemorated on Sunday, it would mean that preparation for the opening ceremonies (Saturday night) would take place on the sabbath. Yehuda Falk (talk) 05:38, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect reference concerning the Kaddish prayer

I find the page on Yom HaShoah generally fine, but as a Jew, I skimmed it over and did find one small problem. The Kaddish prayer is simply described as a prayer for the departed. This is *not* entirely true. In the essence of being thorough, I believe that the page should be changed to specify that it is the *Mourner's* Kaddish that is said, as the lines within the 3 Kaddish forms (Hatzi Kaddish, meaning "half Kaddish"; Kaddish Shalem, meaning "full Kaddish"; and the Mourner's Kaddish) differ slightly.

Also, the Kaddish page itself mentions that although the Mourner's Kaddish is generally referred to as the prayer for the dead, it actually follows the other 2 forms in praising God. The actual prayer for the dead is El Maleh Rahamim.

Due to what I perceive to be a sensitive proposal, I have yet to make any changes until I have been told to go ahead with it. If anyone has something to say on this topic, please do so ASAP. -Edward "The Hellsage" Finer 15:43, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

OTD

Per the rules at WP:OTD, this article is going to be omitted from Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/May 1 if the maintenance tags are still up at that time. There are eight weeks to go, so hopefully this gives plenty of time for editors to add more references. howcheng {chat} 18:11, 28 February 2011 (UTC)