Talk:Tupac Shakur: Difference between revisions

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Tupac Shakur has been listed as one of the good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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This article (or a previous version) is a former featured article candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination did not succeed.
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Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived.

Previous discussions:

Archive 1 (Through December 2005)

Place of Birth

Please provide a source per WP:CITE and WP:V for location. We can discuss reliability of differing reported sources here and determine the best-referenced location. Please do not modify the place of birth until this has been done. No more edit warring between Brooklyn, Bronx, Manhatten please. KillerChihuahua^?!? 12:24, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested: Enter birthplace as Manhatten per the driver's license in the book Tupac: Resurrection and add this to ref:

^ Tupac: Resurrection Atria, 2003 ISBN 0743474341

Some sources place Tupac's birth in the Bronx, while other sources such as IMDB have had both Brooklyn and the Bronx in the past. Most published sources, however, place his birth in Manhattan (Harlem to be precise), as is confirmed on his drivers license in the book Tupac: Resurrection, approved by Afeni Shakur. KillerChihuahua^?!? 12:44, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I got Brooklyn from the book From Totems to Hip-Hop by Ishmael Reed, [1] who is a pretty well respected source, I believe (I am implying that Jacob Hoye is less respected than Reed). Also note Google's "place of birth" featurette [2]. When I get a chance, I'll look for Hoye's book. I guess I have two questions, one, can you find a picture of a new york driver's license (or any american license) that has a spot for "place of birth" on it and two, can you reference any published source which can be viewed on the internet which places his birth in Harlam (or anywhere outside of Brooklyn and the Bronx). Respectfully, Smmurphy^(Talk) 05:11, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I found an image of a NY drivers license [3] and just like my Florida one, it has DOB but not place of birth. I will go by the library and see what I can find there (I was planning to double check this anyway), but it will have to wait until after the holidays. I found that ref in the page history, but now that you've brought it up, it sounds very fishy. I guess I wasn't thinking - good catch. It would be nice if the recent move to get Tupac's records released[4] is successful, then we can just look at his birth certificate (I am sure someone will publish it.) KillerChihuahua^?!? 09:05, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Film/Acting career

Per Pinko1977 and Richard Corey, this needs to be researched, expanded, and generally improved. Remember to cite your sources.

Add information

Can someone explain how he died better (Shabbir Bokhari)

WELL BETTER WELL BASICLY ON THE 7TH OF SEPTEMBER 1996 HE WAS FIRED AT 12 TIMES FIVE HIT HIM (12-5=7) THEN 7 DAYS LATER ON FRIDAY THE 13 OF SEPTEMBER HE WAS PRONUNCED DEAD, PEOPLE SAID HE WOULD RETURN IN 2003(7 YEARS AFTER) THEN 2005(2+5=7) NOW FOR SOME REASON PEOPLE ARE SAYIN 2007 MAYBE TO KEEP THE SUSSPISSION ALIVE LOL Bobo6balde66

GEO

EDITED 2/28/06 More news needs to be added, like Madame Tussauds Las Vegas making a wax sculpture to be unveiled April 2006, and how his next album will be his last, and how the screenplay he wrote in prison, Live 2 Tell is going to be hitting theatres.

Second shooting: Wallace

An addition was made to the second shooting: By the time the newspaper made this contention, Wallace himself had been murderd, however Wallace's family and associates have claimed that Wallace was not in Las Vegas on that night and denied that Wallace had anything to do with the incident.

Is there a source for this information? KillerChihuahua^?!? 01:52, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Death

I'd like to see some information focusing on the popular belief that Tupac faked his own death. Yes, it's highly implausible, but it deserves some coverage in this article.

some of that information i've compiled at User:Kingturtle/2Pac. maybe someone could write a short summary in Tupac Shakur and the start an article called Tupac Shakur conspiracy theory. Kingturtle 19:53, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly advise not starting a fork to a conspiracy article. KillerChihuahua^?!? 21:13, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bad idea, people get angry when they see stuff like this written down. I do not like it, I strongly believe that it is all false. --Taurus8 sam 04:32, 19 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Birth Name Dispute

I just removed this passage "also known as Lesane Parish Crooks" from the introduction, because Pac is not known as Lesane Crooks, not at all. In fact, I haven't seen any authoritative evidence that this was ever his first legal name. If some can point us to a verifiable authoritative source about his birth name, PLEASE do so. Until someone provides this source, we cannot be stating this assertion as fact.--Pinko1977 01:30, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And before someone brings it up, the Thug Angel DVD booklet and the Before I Wake DVD are NOT authoritative sources. A verifiable source would be information directly from Afeni Shakur or Pac's family/representatives.--Pinko1977 02:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That was his birth name.

That was his name his mother even said so. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.34.130.105 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

None of those are sources which meet wikipedia's WP:V standards. Please continue to post any sources you find, as hopefully one will meet standards and we will be able to add this information. Thanks! KillerChihuahua^?!? 18:44, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is very-very strange. It wasn't my edits at all (the link-list that has been reverted minures ago). I've just corrected my previous mistyped edit, completing it with one lone letter. It has to be a coincidence. So don't blame me. Lajbi 19:01, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not blaming you, some odd things have been happening with edits. I meant to re-fix your typo after rolling back, sorry about that - I was called away and just got back to the computer. KillerChihuahua^?!? 19:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT 2/28/06 I can take a picture of Makaveli Branded clothing that says that his birthname was Lesane Parish Crooks. His name was Lesane Parish Crooks, that was a fact. Sometimes rules are not meant to be read word for word, you are leaving out facts for stupid reasons.

I am sorry to hear that you find one of Wikipedia's three primary policies "stupid" and look forward to you finding a source which meets WP:V criteria; until then, please try to avoid making personal attacks, and sign all your posts with four tildes ( ~~~~ - thanks! KillerChihuahua^?!? 00:29, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT 2/28/06

Are you kidding me, every single true 2pac fan knows that his birth name was Lesane Parish Crooks. Due a Google search for "Lesane Parish Crooks" and you will see all the stuff, they aren't making it.

If you read this it says he was born in East Harlem: http://www.2paclegacy.com/images/assets/bio_afeni_shakur/Afeni_Shakur_Biography.pdf

Mutulu Shakur

The article states Mutulu was a drug dealer, I'm not sure this was true; Mutulu fashions himself a political prisoner. Are we sure he was a drug dealer? If not I don't think the article should so carelessly state that.

Maybe we should use the phrase "alleged drug dealer".

weasel words

Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words Here are some weasel words that are often found in Wikipedia articles:

"Some people say..."
"Research has shown..."
"...is widely regarded as..."
"It is believed that..."
"It has been suggested/noticed/decided..."
"Some people believe..."
"Many people say..."
"Critics/Experts say that..."
"Some historians argue..."
"Considered by many..."
"Accusations..."
"Apparently..."
"Allegedly..."
"Serious scholars/scientists/researchers..."
"Mainstream scholars/scientists/researchers..."
"The (mainstream) scientific community"

And don't even think about adding an "arguably." That does not factualize a weasely sentence.

EDITED 2/28/06

YOU CAN'T JUST CALL SOMEONE JUST ACCUSE SOMEONE OF SOMETHING AND CALL THEM FOR EXAMPLE A DRUG DEALER. YOU NEED TO CALL HIM AN ALLEGED DRUG DEALER. IF YOU MENTION SOMETHING THAT IS NOT PROVEN TRUE YOU NEED TO USE THOSE WORDS. MORON. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.130.105 (talk • contribs)

"tupac alive" section, etc.

Fixed the text of the Tupac Alive section to meet wikipedia standards. The section needs a lot of formating to make it pretty, but I'm to drunk now to edit responsibly :o.

Also, were 12, 13, or 7 shots fired?? Someone want to clear this up, or add something saying that it's unclear how many were fired?

There were 12 shots fired and 5 hit him.

Birth name STILL Unverified.

To all who assert that Shakur was born "Lesane Parish Crooks," please cite a reputable source attesting to this fact. Until you do, I ask that you stop adding the statement that he was "born Lesane Parish Crooks" to this article. On Wikipedia, if we cannot provide a REPUTABLE source to support an assertion, we CANNOT state it as fact. Please refer to Wikipedia:Verifiability. Thank you everyone.--Pinko1977 19:47, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

FYI - I am contacting the Amaru Entertainment with these and a few other questions that seem to be un-verifiable (what borough was he born in, etc.) I've already contacted the NYC Vital Statistics office and have been given the run-around on obtaining a birth certificate, so this will probably be the best source available. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.117.149.83 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If these references are not published in a reliable source per WP:V, they will not be usable. Please familiarize yourself with WP:V, WP:CITE, and related policies if you have any questions. KillerChihuahua^?!? 20:57, 27 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. Afenie Shakur is "not a reliable source" concerning where her son was born, or what his name was at birth. One would think that, with appropriate qualifiers, information about the birthplace of a son would be acceptable from the mother or her representatives and could be used as a reliable source. Would Tupac Shakur's Official Biography, published by the foundation which his mother founded in his name, also not qualify as a reliable source? I've already emailed Miss Shakur's representative and informed them that due to the official Wikipedia policies, as stated in WP:V and WP:CITE, I am no longer interested in her opinion in the matter of where her son was born or what her son's name was at birth.

LISTEN TO HIS MOTHERS WORDS, LISTEN TO HIS WORDS YOU FUCKING RETARD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.130.105 (talk • contribs) 18:07, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Featured Music Project evaluation

Tupac Shakur has been evaluated according to the Featured Music Project criteria, most recently affirmed as of this revision. The article's most important issues are listed below. Since this evaluation, the article may have been improved.

The following areas need work to meet the criteria: Comprehensiveness - Pictures - Audio - References - Format/Style

The space below is for limited discussion on this article's prospects as a featured article candidate. Please take conversations to the article talk page.

Comprehensiveness: Very little on influences, style and legacy
Pictures: Needs fair use rationales
Audio: None
References: Insufficient
Format/Style: Cleanup
Lead is okay, but it probably needs some work

Alive Theories

I think this whole new entry is so so inappropriate I can't even explain (there's so much reasons, I could enumerate them all day long). Is there any possibility to speedy delete a section like this without getting into a "revert-war"?? Can we start a voting on it? Imagine what could happen if someone begins to add such a list of "evidences" on every dead men's article... Should we now add Died? into Tupac's infobox (with a question sign) or what?

I think it would be merely enough to have a note at the bottom of the page about fan's belief of he being alive, like in Elvis Presley's article. Or simply ignore it like in Adolf Hitler's (where you can't edit the page on your own, and this kind of idea was voted down on its talkpage, when the case had been brought up).Though there has been a talkpage stuff on this very page too, and someone disproved all the "evidences" with justifiable reasons.

Reconsider all this. Voting stands on 1-0 for delete.

Lajbi 14:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Voting is evil. I have been bold and removed it as unsourced speculation. KillerChihuahua^?!? 14:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was a silly joke with this voting I suggested. I was curious about hearing other's opinion. That was the main purpose. And I was a bit raged that all these people making edits on Tupac thought seriously that this disputed one fits ans should stay (and even reformatted it). That's all. But I hope other's logic is the same as ours', and won't revert it by their belief.Lajbi 14:56, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For the upcoming "fan-like" answers : consider if all these evidences found on later albums and numerology are made by Suge Knight in order to make money of the mytery. He edits all the stuff, including album covers, credits list, previously recorded materials re-cutting sessions, music-videos...etc.Lajbi 15:04, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]