Talk:Martin Leung

Big Changes

I added some biographical information in the beginning, tried to condense all the notable performances into one section, and tried keep all the history as sequential as possible. The praise section has been removed, but some of it has been allocated to the trivia section. More external links have been added, though a few are missing. --Senseiireland 16:04, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Integration of Praise Into The Main Article

You've assembled a lot of great quotes that are properly sourced (except the myspace quotes -- those should probably go). Now, let's try to integrate those into the main part of the article. For example, if the VGP has a performance and someone notable comments on it, add the praise there. This will create a better-flowing, less-disjointed article. --Senseiireland 15:38, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Video Games Live

Isn't it a North American, not a world, tour? http://www.videogameslive.com/index.php?s=info --Senseiireland 03:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC) I've changed it back to North American tour. Let's talk about it here if there are any objections. --Senseiireland 13:55, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, whoever keeps changing this to world tour, please stop -- when Tommy Tallarico first asked the VGP to join VGL, it was not a world tour. As of March 13th 2006 it is, but it wasn't then. If you have proof otherwise, please present it. Thanks for the other changes, though. --Senseiireland 19:34, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't it make more sense to phrase this as "then the first North American tour and now the first world tour?" As it is written now it sounds like it still is only a North American tour. 198.175.62.19 20:35, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Also known as...

Do we need to say he's also known by his acronym (VGP)? Isn't that a given? Seems like a waste of space to me. He's also known as the Blindfolded Pianist, though (do a google search for both and you'll see what I mean. --Senseiireland 03:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Is it necessary that he is constantly referred to as 'Video Game Pianist' and not by his real name??

--willball1987 00:22, 11 May 2007

I agree... I don't think it's necessary to refer to him formally as "Video Game Pianist." I think a suitable replacement would simply be to refer to Leung either by his last name, or simply with the pronoun "him/he" seeing as he's the sole focus of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.48.40.133 (talk) 08:50, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Praise

I added a section on praise of the Video Game Pianist. I strongly believe that Video Game Pianist's praise should be documented.

The criticisms section is an attack and vandalism on the Video Game Pianist article written by a sour fan, Senseiireland. The criticisms are unfounded. Senseiireland gives a link to a forum page where forum members are talking with sombody called "VideoGamePianist". There is no proof that the screen name "VideoGamePianist" on the forum is actually Video Game Pianist, aka Martin Leung. Somebody could have just created a name "VideoGamePianist" and started talking on the forum.

"Although the video clips of Leung feature technically proficient performances, closer examination of the footage reveals that the versions of the songs he plays have been simplified from their original complexity. The Super Mario Bros. theme, for example, one of his flagship pieces, lacks the chords that appear in the officially transcribed sheet music published in music stores in Japan. Similarly, his version of the Final Fantasy "Prelude" piece lacks the more elaborate right-hand chords that appear in the Japanese sheet music."

The above quote is merely an opinion and does not even constitute as a criticism, and therefore should not be in the Critisms section. Even if Video Game Pianist's arrangement of the video game music songs are more simple than the official sheet music (if that music even exists in Japan, and again, no proof has been shown that the official sheet music does exist), a simple arrangement can be even more beautiful than a complex arrangement. Simple is beautiful.

"He has been criticized for taking ownership of videogame music he performs even though the rights still belong to the original composer. As a result, his myspace music webpage was shut down due to copyright infringement. Martin has since secured permission from a variety of videogame composers to perform their work publically."

There is no proof of this whatsoever. Again, this portion of the article was written by a sour fan, Senseiireland. Furthermore, Senseiireland does not properly capitalize "MySpace". Instead, he just writes "myspace", which is incorrect.

"His claim to fame, playing videogame music on the piano while blindfolded, has been criticized as show-boating and not really as hard as it looks."

Where's the proof that "he has been criticized as show-boating and not really as hard as it looks"? Also, there is no proof that his claim to fame for playing video game music blindfolded is true. He has become famous for playing video game music songs on the piano, not for playing blindfolded. If you look on the video page of www.VideoGamePianist.com, there are many other videos of him playing video game songs. Those videos made him popular. There is only one video of him playing blindfolded, and in the video he plays one song blindfolded. There is no way just that one performance of him playing blindfolded made him famous. Again, it was the performances of many video game songs that made him famous. That is why he is known as Video Game Pianist today.

ReplyJust to preface, all of those criticisms were not originally written by me (although most were -- the bit about the chords was a contribution from someone else).

1. I will contact the forum administrator and ask them to verify the email address used to create that account and the account's IP address to ensure the person posting there was the VGP.

ReplyIf you find out the email address used to create the account and the account's IP address of the person who is or pretending to be VGP, you do not know VGP's IP address. Video Game Pianist does not release his IP address to the public. If for the slim chance that you do know or find out his IP address, sharing the IP address of Video Game Pianist to the public would be invasion of privacy, and possible legal action would result.

Reply: Sensei If the email address used to create the account is registered to Martin Leung, it would be reasonable to assume he created the account, no? And if the IP address can be traced to one of the educational institutions Martin attends (as one the IPs banned for deleting content in this wiki article was), the nail's in the coffin.

ReplyAlso, on the forum, members of the forum quote VideoGamePianist. They could just be making the quotes up. Anybody can edit a person's quote and change it. You cannot prove what VideoGamePianist said from other people quoting him, because the other people may have edited the quote.

Reply: Sensei When you edit a post on those forums, a message saying you edited is added to your post (see VGP's posts that he edited out if you're confused). But it really doesn't matter since the criticisms section of this article won't return until more of it can be verified by better sources -- see what happens when you actually discuss something rather than delete it in haste :). --Senseiireland 15:35, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

ReplyNo, what I am saying is that somebody could create a false quote easily on the forum. All they had to do was type in their post the following code: [quote="VideoGamePianist"]...my sheet music is not available to the general public. Other music artists such as Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake, Eminem, Ben Folds, etc. don't give out their sheet music.[/quote] So everything could be made up.

Reply: SenseiThis really doesn't matter at this point, but to my knowledge it's possible for admins to roll back edits. I can tell you from personal experience that he's made that comment several times. It's too bad he deleted all the files from: http://www.videogamepianist.com/index_files/ because I think it contained the archive to his news page. That would really clear up a lot of this stuff.

About tracking IP address, let me tell you this: there could be public computers and public computer labs that people use and share all the time. Therefore matching an IP address with a forum and with an IP address on Wikipedia doesn't necessarily mean the same person was on the forum and edited the Wikipedia article.

Reply:Sensei Sure, that's assuming he made those posts in a public computer lab as opposed to his own personal computer. You're a student at CASE, and you've made all your posts using the same IP address. Furthermore, several of the people from CASE who've altered this page have made posts from the same IP address over a period of time. Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe not. Again, this really doesn't matter since I won't add that section until it can be 100% verified.

Reply:No, they are not the same IP address. To prove my point, I'm using different computers to post messages, and this IP happens to be 129.22.124.73. A majority of internet connections at Case begin with 129.22 etc. They are not the same IP addresses.

Reply: Sensei Several of the IP addresses used from CASE were consistent over the course of several weeks. 192.5.109.49 Perhaps that was a coincidence.

Also, who knows if the real Video Game Pianist, aka Martin Leung, shares his computer (or computers) with his friends? Maybe his friend signed up on the forum and for a joke, and pretended to be the Video Game Pianist. I'm saying Maybe. Reply:senseiIf Martin's friends are pretending to be him, I suggest he tell them to quit it. If you want to continue this discussion, please do so on my talk page since those forum posts will not be used in this wikipedia entry.

Based on my previous interactions with the VGP on his forum, I have no doubt those posts (which he attempted to remove, but are visible since others quoted him) belong to the VGP. Also, view this part of his FAQ, which he has since removed: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:rDnf7kQ5EQsJ:www.videogamepianist.com/index.php%3Fid%3Dfaq+videogame+pianist+faq&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=firefox-a "Transcribing and arranging video game music takes a long time and requires a lot of hard work. VGP listened to the music played in the video game, and by ear, he wrote down every note he heard onto a piece of paper. As you can see, this process is very tedious." This is essentially what he has said other times, although it lacks the part where he compares himself to Bens Fold and Britney Spears.

ReplyPlease stop saying "which he has since removed" Do you actually think VGP has the time to take care of his site due to his busy performance schedule? I think not.

Reply: SenseiThat's quite irrelevant. I'm only pointing it out because it isn't on his site anymore but can be accessed through google's cache.

2. No, what you're saying is opinion. The criticism that Martin's piece is less technically demanding than the original is not opinion. Saying that one is better than the other is opinion, however. I'd like the user who posted that comment to provide a small scan to validate his arguments. Your assertion that the music doesn't exist is absoluitely absurd; go to http://www.gamemusic.com and search for Final Fantasy or Mario. You'll get many, many results.

Reply You said "The criticism that Martin's piece is less technically demanding than the original is not opinion." I never said that. Even if the user provided a scan, it is still an opinion whether or not something is simple or not. Just because a piece has fewer notes than another piece doesn't mean the piece with the fewer notes is simpler. In fact, it could be harder. Whether or not VGP's arrangements are simpler or more complex doesn't matter. This discussion is irrelevant. VGP arranged the music the way he intended it to be. In fact, his arrangement of the Final Fantasy Prelude is actually a transcription of the game music. Sometimes the sheet music published by game companies are slightly altered from the original game.

Reply: Sensei The definition of simple is 'having fewer parts'. If the music Martin performed has less notes, chords, etc. then it's simpler. I will agree that simple does necessarily not equal harder. If he's criticized for playing easier versions of the songs, then that should be documented.

3. Martin had a music myspace account that was shutdown due to copyright violation. The issue was discussed on his boards, and you can read about it in his site's archives (he was promoting the page, which was against myspace's TOS, and the music was copyrighted, which was against myspace's TOS).

Reply I did not find anything about VGP's Myspace account being shut down in his site's archives. You don't provide a link which shows me that you could be making this up.

Reply: Sensei Martin appears to have removed his site's previous news archive. I'll try to find it, but if I can't, this part won't show up in the article. Maybe the wayback machine will have catalogued Martin's page.

4. For examples of people criticizing Martin's technical abilities/accusing him of show-boating, check out the article on Martin from slashdot. You are incorrect that playing regular videogame music without a blindfold is what made him famous. Don't forget that he originally called himself the "blindfolded pianist". His website was blindfoldedpianist.com. All of his original videos that shot him to fame were of him playing the piano blindfolded. Oh, and:

Reply You are incorrection for saying that he got famous for calling himself "Blindfolded Pianist. I strongly believe he became really really famous when he called himself "Video Game Pianist." When he called himself Video Game Pianist, he got to perform at E3, Hollywood Bowl for Video Games Live, MTV interviews, and much much more.

Reply: Sensei Maybe he wasn't "really, really famous" after his blindfolded video, but the 40 million viewers who saw him play the piano blindfolded at first were his initial taste of fame, and gave him his name, the blindfolded pianist.

"According to the Video Games Live press release, "over 40 million people downloaded a video of him playing tunes from the classic Mario games blindfolded.""

Reply The words that are stressed are "classic Mario games", not "blindfolded". Sure, they used blindfolded to make it sound more interesting, but playing music from Mario is much more interesting than playing blindfolded. As I said before, 99% of Video Game Pianist's performances are of him playing with sight. The blindfold thing was for only one Mario song.

Reply: Sensei "The blindfold thing was for only one Mario song." which was seen by 40 million people. The monicker was also adopted by the VGP as his official title for some time before he decided to change it to what it is today.

Remember, when Martin first created the Mario video, people were in disbelief -- they couldn't understand how he could play so fast while being blindfolded! He made another video with a metronome in it proving that he didn't speed it up! Playing the Mario theme was definitely a part of the video's allure, but being blindfolded was one of his most distinguishing marks.

From the original ebaumsworld article: "Info:Watch this guy play mario tunes on a piano. BLINDFOLDED! For more info on this artist go to Theblindfoldedpianist.com"--Senseiireland 03:11, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for showing up, btw. --Senseiireland 01:53, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I would like to remove some of those myspace quotes and substitute ones from respected industry vetrans. For example, the following holds far more weight and is easier-to-read than a myspace reply:

"To me he is the modern-day Chopin or Lizst -- Bach, Beethoven. He's all of those guys wrapped up into one," says composer Tommy Tallarico, who wrote the "Advent Rising" score. "He just happens to love video games!" http://www.cleveland.com/living/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/living/114224249217280.xml&coll=2&thispage=2 --Senseiireland 02:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Criticisms

I added a section on criticisms of the videogame pianist. I'd like help fleshing it out and adding more substance to it because it's weak as it is right now. I do firmly believe that is has a place in this article; it's practically impossible to wander through videogame music enthusiast communities and not see someone criticizing Martin's work. Whether the criticisms are legit or not, they need to be documented. --Senseiireland 01:39, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Someone (likely Martin Leung or a friend) continually deletes criticisms from this page. I concur that they definitely have a place in this article.

>>>They have a place in this article since these criticisms are so pervasive in the community, but I'm struggling on how they can be implimented while maintaining a neutral point of view. Attributing these comments, which come from an anonymous, albeit large, group of people is difficult since saying "many have said" or "the community responds" can be seen as disingenuous (we could be making this up as an attack on his character -- anyone involved knows this isn't true, but a random user won't). I know there are several identifiable members of the largely anonymous music enthusiast community, particularly Gori Fater, that could help legitimize these common criticisms by giving them specific attribution. --Senseiireland 00:24, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I checked 192.5.109.49's user talk page, and he or she has a history of vandalizing wikipedia. I left a class 2 warning since this person has deleted the criticisms section without warning several times now. Additionally, I ran an IP-check on the user. According to ARIN, this user is from Cleveland Western Reserve University. The Videogame Pianist is currently attending the Cleveland institute of music. This leads me to believe that our suspicions of the vandal being the VG pianist or one of his friends is most likely true. If the vandalism continues, I'll issue another two warnings before finally bringing this up with the administrators.--Senseiireland 00:44, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that, until more sources are found that don't verge on original research, this section will have to remain dormant, for the most part. There are a lot of valid criticisms to document, but since most come from various messageboard communities and not recognized media outlets, citing them is difficult and could be seen as spurious.

We can continue discussing this section, but please don't put it back into the main article until we're confident it belongs there. --Senseiireland 04:15, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

The subject lacks the notability for either the praise or criticisms section. The criticisms merely come across as personal attacks that could easily be made of any musician. The article is fine the way it is - simple and factual. 76.121.3.146 (talk) 08:47, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Advertisement

This is a gushing advertisement. 140.247.60.149 06:55, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

How about:

1. This guys name?
2. Where he was trained?
3. Wheare he is from?

--The_stuart 16:45, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't think this is an advertisement at all. The article is informative and unbiased.

I think this article needs to be cleaned up badly, but is at a acceptable NPOV level. --SirNuke 28 June 2005 20:42 (UTC)

Written by subject?

This article reads very much like it was written by the subject himself. It makes mention of several facts that not only are frankly irrelevant to this entry, but are things that seemingly no one else (other than a close friend) would know or care to know.

Also, this article makes no mention of his previous name, The Blindfolded Pianist, or his blindfolded performances.

-Sam Walker, 2005/7/24

I'm a frequent visitor to the Video Game Pianist's web site and a fan, and I made some updates here since he recenty updated his bio.

Real Beginnings

Why is there no mention of him being formally "The Blindfolded Pianist"? That was is original niche. (He played the piano blindfolded, behind the back, etc.) Can we also confirm that he was "introduced" on Ebaum’s World? Anyway, here is an archive of his old site: [1] (theblindfoldedpianist.com now redirects to his new site).

Year of Birth missing?

Check out the start of the article. The birthdate is stated someplace where you can't miss it. Could someone please re-format this entire article to go into it's appropriate birthday category? White Mage Cid 21:05, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

sister Lee Ann

It may be worth mentioning that his sister Lee Ann Leung is also currently performing as a pianist with the Video Games Live shows.[2] Shawnc (talk) 22:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Article update request

Could someone please update: "Leung attended the Cleveland Institute of Music."

According to the following references, Leung has graduated from the Cleveland Institute of Music and the Yale School of Music:

http://my.cim.edu/news/58520/Mario-Solo-Piano-Medley-NPR-Musics-Song-of-the-Day-on-18-Jan-2011.htm

http://www.yale.edu/printer/bulletin/htmlfiles/music/degrees-and-enrollment.html

Thank you!

Music36963 (talk) 04:35, 5 March 2011 (UTC)