User talk:Blueman33

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Nomination of Justin Watts for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Justin Watts is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justin Watts until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article.

Hey - I'm also a Carolina fan, but Watts doesn't meet Wikipedia's standards for college athlete notability. College athletes muct either be award winners, record holders or receive significant media coverage as an individual (as opposed to just a member of the team). Watts is a role player who doesn't meet these standards. Go Heels - hope we beat Marquette! Rikster2 (talk) 01:12, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Advice

Thanks for your talk page comment. The most important advice in this situation is to take a breath, and not rush into anything. I assume you're talking about the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Justin Watts discussion. As far as the content goes, I do note that the standards for college basketball players is incredibly strict (don't know why, given the coverage they receive) and you're fighting a losing battle. Which feels awful - I know, I've experienced it, for example, at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nominal Christian. The second issue is that of personal attacks, and there is a whole policy of dealing with it here - Wikipedia:No personal attacks#Responding to personal attacks. Now, as I see it, "Stand down, buddy" was not a wise thing to say, it tends to escalate a situation. But I really don't think it was meant with any malice - it was just a cute way of saying what I said above about you fighting a losing battle. Anyway, I totally appreciate that you're feeling hurt at all this, but I think has much as possible you should try to let it go. Thanks again for seeking my advice, and I do hope this sort of thing doesn't put you off Wikipedia. StAnselm (talk) 12:33, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

• Wow, thanks for the quick response! That's very interesting. Without getting into specifics from the discussion, Justin Watts is clearly notable based on Wikipedia:Notability (sports). But you're right, everyone else has opined "not notable," all using criteria that isn't found in Wikipedia:Notability (sports). In fact, only one person so far has even brought up media coverage in their justification. Do you think it's possible that the "college basketball community" here has drifted into using their own criteria (however defined or undefined that me be) to determine notability? If so, where could I go to discuss possibly clarifying or modifying Wikipedia:Notability (sports)? As for the personal insults, I don't think anyone (including myself) likes to be told to "stand down, buddy," or to "shut up." I found them both to be completely rude and unprofessional. Furthermore, it doesn't appear that the individual who said them realizes as much. -Blueman33 (talk) 13:39, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Regardless of what happens with the Justin Watts Afd, I want to thank you for adding content regarding Carolina basketball. I am a big Carolina fan and I am trying to bring these articles up to good quality as much as possible (for example check out List of North Carolina Tar Heels men's basketball head coaches). There is lots to be done so if there is anything I can help out with, just let me know. Cheers, Remember (talk) 13:17, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

• Hey, thanks for the note. I'll def check out the list. Just out of curiosity, what criteria do you use to determine notability of college basketball players? -Blueman33 (talk) 13:44, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I use the one set up by the sports notability guidelines. I know Watts has some coverage in the papers you cited (and I have done my own research). I feel that those are small pieces on him, and probably do not rise to the standard of notability (but I could be wrong). The whole standard is very vague and open to interpretation, and unfortunately a line has to be drawn somewhere. I can see your argument for why he deserves an article, but I doubt it will prevail. I would be happy to be proven wrong though. Remember (talk) 17:16, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again for continuing the discussion here. Perhaps you could check to see if those references are reliable sources, and then maybe you could weigh in on the discussion? I think the criteria is very clear: "College athletes and coaches are notable if they have been the subject of non-trivial media coverage beyond merely a repeating of their statistics." -Blueman33 (talk) 19:00, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Leslie McDonald for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Leslie McDonald is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leslie McDonald until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Rikster2 (talk) 19:10, 25 March 2011 (UTC)