Talk:Thiruvananthapuram/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

TRV is NOT the cheapest to CMB

I have seen many blind reverts on this point. Let me put it on record the verified information. I took pricing for flights to Colombo on 1st April from various airports.

Srilankan Airlines quotes Rs 8215 for TRV-CMB, Rs 6060 for MAA-CMB and Rs 6620 for TRZ-CMB. that conclusively proves that TRV is NOT the cheapest. Similar costing is applicable for other days also.

If you try a general booking site like expedia, you will get similar results, even for multi hop flights.

I am going to edit the section now. Before anyone reverts, please prove here that it is not valid.

DileepKS(talk) 11:15, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

If you give the source links here, it's very easy to remove the statement;) BINOY ^Talk 11:26, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

http://www.srilankan.aero/ is the site. One needs to enter the details to get a quote, so can't directly link the information here.

DileepKS(talk) 11:28, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Ok i checked on this link and i found there,

For one way flight for one adult in economy class on February 19 2011

From TRV to CMB is INR 7200.00 From TRZ to CMB is INR 6620.00

But i also checked one way flight for one adult in economy class on May 25 2011

From TRV to CMB is INR 6395.00 From TRZ to CMB is INR 7810.00 BINOY ^Talk 12:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, same day (25 May, 2011), MAA-CMB is Rs 6060. Also, either 24th and 26th, it is Rs 8215 for TRV-CMB. Looks like a database error on that particular date to me.

Anyway, to claim 'cheapest' it should be at least cheapest on majority of the days, not one day in a year.

Issue closed. DileepKS(talk) 13:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, looks like it's not cheapest but the rates vary. Also the rates to Malé was unclear. The only Malé services from TRV is by Maldivian airline and their only International service is to Trivandrum International Airport. BINOY ^Talk 14:09, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Blind Reverts

Blind Reverts doesn't help anyone. This will cause the loss of valuable, bona-fide edits. Please refrain from them.

When an editor makes an edit giving a proper reason, It is only fair to expect a proper reason to revert that. This way, the edit could be taken to the Talk page to resolve the dispute. Let me give an example from this page.

I removed the assertion It is also considered as one of the cleanest cities in India., citing a specific reason, viz 1. 'considered cleanest' is weasel word. 2. The ref does not assert that point 3. The ref is a tourism promotion site.. Editor Lower Fourth blind-reverted it, along with many other edits by other editors with a statement pls help!! some users are destroying the intro of the page. See history!!!

That is unfair, and goes against the basic principles of Wikipedia. If the editor have a dispute on my action, he/she must revert that specific edit, and then we could resolve it on the talk page. This process if violated by the blind revert.

I have put back the original version, with the hope that editors would follow the proper procedure and work out the dispute(s) if any here on the talk page.

DileepKS(talk) 04:24, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

it is not blind reverts. "It is also considered as one of the cleanest cities in India" is not a weasel word it is really considered as cleanest. and since it is the capital and largest city, distance to other city's is not needed. and the previous intro looks great and informative and the new one looks very messy. discuss here before making any change.Lower4th . TalK  04:48, 20 February 2011 (UTC) @Lower fourth - Can you explain why you do BLIND reverts rather than just revert the so called disputable point? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 07:27, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

'since it is the capital and largest city, distance to other city's is not needed' - what is that supposed to mean? Are distances to capital cities taught in school and others not? It is only good for the capital city and the largest city, if distances are mentioned. Especially in the case of this particular city which is not as popular as the commercial capital, it is good to have the distance to other cities mentioned lest someone miss out on this capital and largest city - MountainWhiskey (talk) 06:07, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

You could also visit the Gandhinagar page which mentions the distance to Gujarat's major city.

@LowerFourth - can you please detail the points that you call destructive? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 06:17, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Gandhinagar is not the largest city in Gujarat and Ahmedabad is so important to Gujarat being the largest city in the state and to India because it is the 8th largest city in the country. Also Gandhinagr article does not looks so informative and it has to improve so much. Trivandrum is the capital and largest city in Kerala. See good articles like Bangalore, Chennai etc... Lower4th . TalK  07:15, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

It is not about large or small. In area, Trivandrum might be larger but when it comes to Trade and Commerce, Kochi is much bigger. It is always good to have a referring city. Kochi, that way is the best identifiable city in the region. What is your next issue? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 07:23, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Trivandrum is also a major Trade and Commerce center. Kochi is bigger than Trivandrum in manufacturing industry sector and Trivandrum is bigger than Kochi in the IT and software industry sector. in what way you said, "Kochi, that way is the best identifiable city in the region"?? Kochi is about 200KM away. Kollam is another major city in Kerala which is only about 50Km away Lower4th . TalK  07:43, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower fourth - I repeat! You are the one with the DISPUTE so you should talk before REVERT. Is that too hard to understand?Anyways, shall we add distance to Kollam since you say Kollam is the major identifiable city close to TVM? BTW, IT is not the biggest industry in Kerala... and Kollam is not identifiable on a national basis compared to Kochi. I hope you get the pt? - Cheers!!! So we are adding Kollam distance, are we not? - MountainWhiskey (talk)

dear whiskey, i only mentioned Kollam is the identifiable city very close to TVM. Kochi is not so near to Thiruvananthapuram. and i repeat that there is no need to add distance to another city in the capital city and largest city article. and I repeat! You are the one who added the DISPUTE content so you should talk before ADDING.Lower4th . TalK  09:33, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth - I don't understand why a capital city does not need to be identified by Distance. Are there no roads in the capital city? I did not add Disputed Content. Saying the distance to Kochi from TRV is 200kms is not DISPUTED. It is a fact. Why are you REMOVING FACTS? My simple Question is "Is the distance to Kochi 200-odd Kms or not? Pls answer before I reinstate the fact. And please stop behaving as if WIKIPEDIA belongs to you or folks out there. Your plea for HELP unfortunately did not bring anyone to HELP? ;) - MountainWhiskey (talk) 11:28, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth, you do not define the meaning of weasel word. There are established guidelines for that. The reference does not assert the "one of the cleanest" attribute, and it is a tourism promotion website. As a precedence, let me quote that the same site does assert that Kochi is the most cosmopolitan city in Kerala, but its use is disputed and the assertion removed. It was a clear assertion, but its use was successfully disputed. Here, the reference doesn't even assert the fact.

You can't use the quoted reference. The assertion shall be removed. DileepKS(talk) 09:49, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

@ whiskey: your behavior really shows that WIKIPEDIA belongs to you or folks out there. and dear whiskey, fact cannot be added in every place. for example, New Delhi is about 2,500 KM away from Trivandrum. yes or no? It is really a fact. but there is no need to add distance to Trivandrum in New Delhi page. Also in the Chennai page there is no need to add distance to Coimbatore. Lower4th . TalK  15:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

@ Dileep : Thiruvananthapuram is considered as a clean and green city from olden days. But the modernization of city caused the greenery and cleanness negatively. The Trivandrum corporation consider the cleanness of the city very seriously, like the Kochi corporation consider the slum dwelling problem of Kochi. The corporation has implemented so many plans and projects to keep the city clean. But the succeed one was the CCCC project.

Thiruvananthapuram city is under the CAPITAL CITY CLEAN CITY Project (CCCC PROJECT), which is an integrated solid waste management project for Thiruvananthapuram Municipal Corporation. The project was launched by the Chief Minister on 5th June 2006 and it has been implemented in 25 wards successfully in the same year. The achievement of the project was 97.98% of residential area and 95.36% of commercial area of the city are covered by the project and made clean. By comparing to other Indian cites, more than 93% of the city area is clean and is considered as one of the cleanest city in India, like Bangalore.

see : http://www.corporationoftrivandrum.in/cleancity.pdf Lower4th . TalK  15:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Froth - 1. If it is one of the cleanest cities, what is the ranking or rating? Do you have a study or any sort of statistic to prove this? Agreed, there was a time when it was one of the or the cleanest city. But that is long gone, it is still cleaner compared to most Indian cities but unless we have a ranking or rating we cannot put it up there. If we do, it means Weasel.

2. Does TVM page follow Chennai and Delhi and every other capital page in every way? What is so harmful in mentioning distance? "NO NEED" is not a valid explanation. Do you have a better reasoning? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 16:25, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Next Point of Dispute, Please? -

It doesn't said that it was the 2nd or 3rd cleanest city in India. It only said it was one of the cleanest city in India. And how can a city can be RANKED in the basics of Cleanness!!!!!???? And it is a statistic study by the Corporation of Thiruvananthapuram. can't you understand?? The achievement table in page 7 shows this. You are only doing this to promote your personal views.

2: there is no need to TVM page follow Chennai and Delhi and every other capital page in every way. I only said that there is no need to add TVM distance to New Delhi. WHY?.... also there is no need to add the distance of Coimbatore in Chennai page. WHY?... say the answer... The same answer is in the case of Thiruvananthapuram. Lower4th . TalK  17:09, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

and Next Point of Dispute, Please?----

Hi Lower Froth - Tell us something new? Are you saying that TVM is omnipresent that it need not be compared in distance to other cities? There is a difference between Chennai, Mumbai and TVM. Chennai and Mumbai are both capitals and commercial capitals of their states while TVM is only a Capital though not commercially and a lot of people think that Kochi is the IT Hub, Commercial Hub, Major City and even Capital (all of which is partly true). So, it is good to tell them where Kochi stands and where TVM stands. Else, nobody will ask. And, please, since you are the person with the DISPUTES, go ahead and present your Cases. - MountainWhiskey (talk) 17:34, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower, I am not disputing that the city is not doing anything about cleanliness. I am not disputing that YOU, or many other residents consider it the cleanest. What I am disputing is, there is no credible and reliable reference for that claim, without which, it is a weasel word.

DileepKS(talk) 00:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth - PLEASE DISCUSS AND SETTLE YOUR POINTS OF DISPUTE BEFORE BLINDLY REVERTING, REMEMBER THERE IS A DEADLINE FOR EVERYTHING

YA, PLEASE DISCUSS AND SETTLE YOUR POINTS OF DISPUTE BEFORE REMOVING CONTENT, REMEMBER THERE IS A DEADLINE FOR EVERYTHING Lower4th . TalK  14:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

@Lower Fourth - Please discuss, where is the discussion. You will be warned if you continue to revert.

Largest City

Dear Lower4th

If Trivandrum is the largest city, why they dont have the facilities like metro railway, suburuban railway, modern shopping and entertainment facilities, large scale industries etc....? Only in kerala these facilities belongs to the so called second largest city. And the funny thing is, now Trivandrum is bigger than Chennai, so it can claim the second largest city in south India. Great Trivandrum, great….....not the size, but the content that matters. Thalaykakath vallathum venam. Manasilayo?

--Bijuts (talk) 10:57, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Look at the population figures machooo.....

where in "so called second largest city" has metro railway? and also suburuban railway so funny.. modern shopping and entertainment facilities are also available in the largest city. ya the "so called second largest city" has some large scale industries and a port but comparing to other cities in India like our Bangalore or Chennai, those are nothing.... only thing cannot overtaken by other cities from the "so called second largest city" was the GREAT PERFUME LIKE SMELL and the number of MOSQUITOES..... Talakkakathu vallathum alla vendathu. BRAIN aanu vendathu. athengane..... Pinnaku talaynmarkku ithu vallathum ariyamo??? Lower4th . TalK  14:48, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

U r mistaken. Njan udesicha 'thala-its not you. Its for TVM. Urs fill with enough pinnake, everybody know it. Then compare to other cities:- We cant compare kerala with other states. Its an exceptional case in India, as we always discuss according to Indian parameters. Its entirely different from Kerala and highly densited even more than Bihar and Bengal according to Liveable areas. In Taminadu, Karnataka, AP and other states in India...people lives thickly only on metors. If Kerala is a big metro, Kochi will be the Nariman Point and TVM will be Sansad marg. Even Kerala got some big industries again, there is no such sudden jumping in population in any city. Population rise surrounding it....

--Bijuts (talk) 15:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

pinnakkum kalimannu aarude talayilanennu namukkariyam. ya i know Kerala is noted for it's scattered towns across the state. who said TVM has nothing in tala?? it's the capital, friend and the city is very important. most of the gvot headquarters and gvot research institutions situated here. the city is also noted for the educational institutions and research institutes. and people started to call the city "The educational capital". Facilities like ISRO's VSSC, Thumba Rocket launching station, Brahmos etc...etc.. are here and how do you say it is not so important. Remember each city has it's own importance. try to understand that things. shopping and entertainment is not the important fact.

Kochi has so many ultimate specialties. put that into light instead of blurring other city's light by some silly argument's. that does not feels so good.

population is the real factor to estimate the largest cities. TVM one of the best cities in India to reside in. because the city has less crime records and also clean and green. it attract more residents. so the population is greater. and also see World's largest municipalities by population Mumbai is in the second place and New York city is in the 15th place by population. Lower4th . TalK  15:53, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Guys! BACK OFF!! This mudslinging doesn't help anyone. Please delete this section, as it doesn't add any value or serve any purpose to the article.

DileepKS(talk) 01:52, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Updating Tourism numbers

The economic review 2010 is now available.

According to Appendix 9.1 on tourism numbers, http://www.spb.kerala.gov.in/images/ec2010/chapter9/3.pdf, TVM no longer is No 1 in foreign tourist arrivals. In 2009, TVM had 1,76,571 tourists, a decline of 25% from the 2008 number of 2,34,797. Ernakulam got 2,39,364 in 2009, a growth of 24% over the 2008 number of 1,93,013. The numbers are, obviously, for the districts, but practically every tourist arrive, comes to the city, so it can be readily used.

The claim of 'most foreign tourists' will be removed, unless a valid argument and concensus is made here for retaining the same.

DileepKS(talk) 07:27, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

find the city data. you cannot add the district data. because, EKM district is bigger than TVM dist in area. so there are so many tourist places outside the city area. and in TVM city most of the tourist attractions, including the beaches is within the city. Lower4th . TalK  15:20, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Compare TVC corporation and Cochin Corporation. Same is applicable here? TVC corporation expanding with neighbouring rural areas...it never ends. Still it doesnt have a municipality in its border.....Shame Shame.... --Bijuts (talk) 15:30, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

District numbers can be used as city numbers for tourism, because EVERY foreign tourist that lands at the airport visits the city. Do you think anyone would skip Fort Kochi? Same case with Domestic tourists also.

DileepKS(talk) 01:38, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

you can't say that Dileep. that's not the list of foreign tourist that lands at the airport and you can't say all the tourist's visiting Ernakulam distict is from that airport.

@ Biju- i don't understand what is the purpose of that "Municipality border" issue. what is the meed of municipality in the border? tvm corporation has an area of 214.86 km² and kci corporation is only 94.88 km².

ie; only 94.88 km ² of the corporation area is in the 2,951 km² wide district!!!! Lower4th . TalK  02:57, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Practically, every foreign tourist that visits the district actually comes to Fort Kochi. No one. absolutely no one, would skip that location. In fact the tourist locations outside the city attracts very few foreign tourists, and even those only do excursions from the city. You are just bringing in baseless and bogus arguments.

DileepKS(talk) 05:22, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit-warring and personal attacks

Whoever involved in the recent edi-war: Please read what Wikipedia is NOT before discussions and making changes in the article. If the warring continues, the users may be blocked and the page protected. -- Aarem ^(Talk) 09:46, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, there are 2 sides to the edit war - one is those who come to blindly revert and have never contributed even a penny. the other of course is those who try to add facts and correct pages and who are the victims of the first variety's actions - so who you gonna block? - MountainWhiskey (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, if you may please, we can discuss the individual points and resolve them.

DileepKS(talk) 09:57, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Aarem, you are a senior editor, so I am not considering your action as a blind revert. However, It would have b een better if you reverted only contentious edits. Here are my edits that got reverted in your action.

1. Administration and Law: Updated No of wards to 100
2. 'It is also considered as one of the cleanest cities in India.' Deleted. 1. 'considered cleanest' is weasel word. 2. The ref does not assert that point 3. The ref is a tourism promotion site. See Talk above.
3. Air: 'It is considered as one of the best airport in the country' is classic weasel word. Deleted.
4. Air: It is conclusively proven that TRV is NOT the cheapest. See Talk above.
5. Air: 'Apart from regular scheduled flights, many chartered flights from Europe like First Choice Airways from London Gatwick and Monarch land here during the peak tourist season (around December) with Kerala fast becoming a prime tourist destination in India.': Wrong structure. Removed the Kerala part.

These edits will be reinserted. Please describe your objections, if any. DileepKS(talk) 11:37, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, Let me make my points here: 1. Number of wards is 100 now. 2. cleanest is a weasel word. But considered cleanest is NOT. Anyways agreed with the opinion of dileepks. 3. The ref clearly states that. 4. There is nothing wrong in mentioning Kerala. --Samaleks (talk) 12:11, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Samaleks, wrt 3, the given ref is a news report about an interested party lobbying the govt, and the statement is from them. It is no way neutral, and totally unacceptable as a ref.

wrt 5, my problem is not Kerala. The sentence structure is grammatically incorrect. If you can re-phrase it, please do.

DileepKS(talk) 13:09, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

___________

User Aarem - Please justify why you reverted the following: 1. Distance from cities/towns 2. UA population 3. Breaking the huge paragraph into smaller paragraphs - we learned this in school and it improves stability 4. Trivandrum is not the only gateway to Kerala. In fact the latest tourism figures show Tvm and even Kerala as a whole has taken a dip. 5. Distance of terminals from C.Rail in your revision is totally wrong. 6. TVM does not offer the cheapest fares to SL. Overall, it is one of the most exp airports in the country right now.

Awaiting your clarification. Cheers - MountainWhiskey (talk) 16:02, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Let me also make my points:

points of wiskey 1.no use and no need here. only provide a link to other cities.

2. it's more than 1 million.

3. you didn't just broke the paragraph. you changed the content. any way the 2 paras are not HUGE.

4. ??

5. then give ref of correct distances.

6. most of the time, it is the cheapest.

points of Dileep. 1.Administration and Law: Updated No of wards to 100 is OK it is now 100.

2.'considered cleanest' is not a weasel word. ok, tourism promotion sites are not valuable here. but the info in the tourism promotion site is true. it can be understand by [1] visiting this. it say's more than 90 % of the city area is clean. we can't avoid it very easily. because cleanness is a very important factor among Indian cities.

3. the Hindu news report is considered as a good ref.

4. most of the time, it is the cheapest.

5. you can also re-phrase it. and some one here just learned this in school. Lower4th . TalK  04:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Fourth, do not bring in laughable arguments please. This is a serious discussion.

2 - To be used, a claim like "considered one of the cleanest" needs some solid reference. Let me remind you about the precedence. The assertion have no base.

3 - The claim of the Hindu being good source is, pardon me, but laughably silly. You have a news report of someone lobbying, and you want to use that as reference? Let me quote a precedence here also. Look up the discussion about the IT Exports numbers above. A Hindu report that quoted the Kerala IT Mission, with EXACT numbers proved that the claim of IT exports on this page is incorrect. See the arguments raised by the senior editors against that. In fact I am waiting for some RTI responses to thoroughly refute that assertion.

4 - Did you check? It is disproven from reliable sources, and in fact the discussion is closed there with Editor Binoy. Read up, and if meeded, check yourself. On NO DAY, it is cheaper than Chennai. Apparently due to a database error, on ONE DAY, it shows cheaper than TRZ. On either day before and after, of that day, it is not.

5 - I did re-phrase, and it got removed in the revert. Hence the comment here.

Please. Please bring in valid arguments, and do not waste my time!

DileepKS(talk) 05:33, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Lower Froth - I think I have had enough dealing with your kind - the Blind Revert Specialist With No Contributions and Getting Too Personal variety. There are much more experienced and mature editors on board here like Aarem and I would prefer talking to them cos all you can do is make me LMFAO. Cheers and have a good day - MountainWhiskey (talk) 05:36, 25 February 2011 (UTC)