Talk:Easter

Autumn

"It occurs during the spring, in and around the month of April." Can someone please edit that? It occurs in the Autumn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.201.34.143 (talk) 05:16, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Easter does not occur in autumn. ZabiggyZoo (talk) 20:05, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, maybe it does if you're in Australia.... :) Do they reverse the seasons down under? ~Amatulić (talk) 23:35, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes can someone please change it to "It occurs during Northern spring". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.123.156 (talk) 23:28, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't that be "It occurs during the northern spring and southern autumn"? Why should the north get precedence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.82.92.83 (talk) 02:07, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Lead section

The lead section of this article, which should be one of main articles about Christianity, is simply below standard. I am not enough knowledgeable, both with English terminology and the topic to edit it myself, but someone please address the issues:

• Some[who?] Christians celebrate this resurrection on Easter Day or Easter Sunday (also Resurrection Day or Resurrection Sunday), two days after Good Friday and three days after Maundy Thursday.

  Which Christians do not celebrate Easter on this day? Most do, and the "some" is highly misleading. We should state the global facts first, and exceptions only later, depending on significance.

The plain truth is that the vast majority of Christians celebrate Easter on this day. "Some" is flat-out dishonest. This should be fixed. One can consult every Christian group in the world, and those that represent well over 90% of Christians will agree that Easter Sunday is the day in which the Resurrection of Christ is celebrated.ZabiggyZoo (talk) 20:05, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

• Why are Good Friday and, worse still, Maundy Thursday, relevant for the date of Easter? If anything, the Friday and Thursdays are ones which by definition come before the Easter, not the other way round? The whole sentence is upside down.

• Easter also refers to the season of the church year called Eastertide or the Easter Season. Traditionally the Easter Season lasted for the forty days from Easter Day until Ascension Day. The first week of the Easter Season is known as Easter Week or the Octave of Easter. The week from Palm Sunday to Easter is known as Holy Week. Easter also marks the end of Lent, a season of fasting, prayer, and penance.

  I am not aware that anyone refers to Eastertide as the Easter. Why is so relevant for the lead how the two weeks surrounding it are called? Why is it not in chronological order:

  Easter marks the end of Lent, a forty-day period of fasting, prayer, and penance. The last week of the Lent is called "Holy week", and it contains Good Friday, observed before the Easter Sunday. Easter is followed by fifty-day period called Eastertide or the Easter Season, which lasts until the Pentecost Sunday.

• Secular customs, such as the Easter Bunny and Easter egg hunts, have become part of the holiday's modern celebrations and are often observed by Christians and non-Christians alike. There are also some Christian denominations who do not celebrate Easter. (See section below.)

  Apples and oranges. Both facts are worth mentioning, but not in the same paragraph.

No such user (talk) 07:27, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request

{{edit semi-protected}}

The text "Some Christians celebrate this resurrection on Easter Day or Easter Sunday" should be replaced by "The vast majority of Christians celebrate this resurrection on Easter Day or Easter Sunday". Rationale: It's the truth. "Some" in English almost always means a quantity short of the majority. As any amount of research on modern Christian practices will reveal, the vast majority (indeed, probably over 90%) of Christians celebrate the resurrection of Christ on Easter. The use of "some" is blatantly dishonest.ZabiggyZoo (talk) 22:52, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

 Done but not the way you asked. "Vast majority" is an inappropriate term. ~Amatulić (talk) 23:05, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I daresay that any Christians who disregard Easter are not really Christians. The Resurrection is central to the Christian religion. Without that, it's just a "philosophy", not a religion. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:10, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Quakers believe in the Resurrection but do not celebrate Easter. Instead they celebrate the Resurrection every day of the year. — Joe Kress (talk) 07:35, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Easter Not Equivalent of Passover

In the right hand column under the picture of Jesus in the Related To section, it says "Passover, of which it is regarded the Christian equivalent". This information is wrong. What it should read, is that "Easter and the Jewish holiday, Passover fall around the same time, but are not similar related in any way", or something like that. They are completely different holidays with no similarities, except some minor modern adopted customs, such as Easter's egg hunt and Passover's traditional matzoh hunt. Since Easter mourns the crucifixion and death of Jesus and celebrates his resurrection, while Passover commemorates the Israelites' plight from Egypt and their journey through the desert to Israel. comment added by Choopchick (talk • contribs) 17:59, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

They aren't completely different. The computation of date of Easter is based on that of Passover. The events celebrated on Easter happened in the context of a Passover. And one interpretation common among Christians is that the death and resurrection of Jesus constitutes a "new Passover" (see Luke 9:31, "They appeared in glory and were speaking of his departure [literally exodus], which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem."). Ruckabumpkus (talk) 02:56, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Easter is a Christian continuation of Passover. Traditional Eastern Orthodox hymns (in Greek) explicitly call it "Holy Passover", for example.

Secular (Commercial) Easter

Don't suppose we could get a separate page or even a paragraph dedicated to easter as a children's holiday/candy holiday. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.123.254 (talk) 06:49, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like Easter customs may be the article you want. Rwflammang (talk) 15:20, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Isnt going to church an "Easter custom", just like the Wiccan/Pagan Holiday? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.100.82.254 (talk) 07:35, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Commercial Easter in introduction?

Should we include a paragraph mentioning the commercial/secular aspect of Easter in the intro? I'm sure there was one there before, but it has disappeared. Most references to Easter heard in the media (TV commercials, programs, news, public sphere) refer to the commercial/secular aspect without once mentioning the Christian side that this article defaults with. Any opinions?. — CIS ^(talk | stalk) 08:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I've just removed it, because it was rather poorly written, but I agree that it deserves a mentioning. No such user (talk) 08:52, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Reinstated [1]. Feel free to tweak it. No such user (talk) 09:02, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

"In most European languages the feast called Easter in English is termed by the words for passover in those languages and in the older English versions of the Bible the term Easter was the term used to translate passover"

The first mention of "Passover" is correctly capitolized as a Proper Name. Further in the paragraph, it appears incorrectly uncapitolized as "passover." This should be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.198.39.2 (talk) 11:54, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I made a few changes. Some of the lower-case "passover" seem to be direct quotes, so I left those alone. However, I'm not 100% certain about the changes I made. I'm not sure if it's the holiday name or just the word(s) "pass over" that they're referring to. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:05, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

It sounded rather convoluted, so I tried to simplify it [2]. No such user (talk) 12:39, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Eostre etymology

I humbly request you include that Eostre is the Goddess of the Dawn in your etymology section. Yes, you can get there through a link, but it's no mistake that this Goddess has given the name to the Christian festival, symbolizing as she does, REBIRTH. Credit where it's due, guys! :-)Etymology freak (talk) 23:12, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually, it is a mistake. The only source of that information is Bede, and that's not what he said; he said the name came from the name of the month. There is also no evidence that she was a Goddess of the Dawn, beyond the assumption that the name is related to the word "East." Carlo (talk) 04:15, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

It's worth mentioning since the month of April was Eostre and Christianity is known to incorporate local traditions into it's own canon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.197.58.7 (talk) 22:39, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

A few comments:

1. A mistake? Bede, in fact, did say that; see Ēostre. "Assumption"? Ēostre is generally held by modern scholars to be an Anglo-Saxon descendent of a Proto-Indo-European dawn goddess. Bede was not some sort of early medieval linguist and Anglo-Saxon paganism continued to exist during his time.
2. The etymology is already here, in the "English and German" section, although unrepresented in the lead.

A hope that answers your questions. :bloodofox: (talk) 22:49, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Isn't Bede the same person quoted as finding the roots for East and West? - why does the OED have this definition, yet this page does not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.100.82.254 (talk) 07:33, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure what you're asking here, but for the complete Bede attestation, see Ēostre. :bloodofox: (talk) 17:06, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Multiple issues

I tagged this page multiple issues. This is because I think more needs to be said on how people celebrate Easter at home. Also I think more should be said on Easter's roots in, and current association with, celebrating Springtime. I think the Etymology section needs to be shorter. I also think the dating of easter needs to be clarified into a section entitled "Why Easter is a movable holiday." --Rhbsihvi (talk) 05:55, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Many of the issues you ask about are in the article Easter customs. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:27, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Anyhow, I think this article should not be considered finished.--Rhbsihvi (talk) 20:37, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Then "finish" it for us, and remember proper citations.Dogface (talk) 22:42, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Dear editors, please do not feed the troll. Dogface (talk) 06:11, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

• Refactored from original version for WP:NICE & MOS:CLEAR. --Rhbsihvi (talk) 21:53, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Google result

Did anyone know that if you search for "zombie jesus day" in google, this is the second result? Larryisgood (talk) 12:00, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

So? Ruckabumpkus (talk) 02:57, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

It made me smile -- thanks for sharing. -Ben (talk) 11:34, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Lent

Lent starts on Ash Wednesday. 40 days later is Palm Sunday, which is 7 days before Easter. The 40 days is to do with Jesus spending 40 days and nights fasting. He arrived back in Jerusulem on Palm Sunday, so that actually marks the end of Lent. Then is Holy week, and Easter Sunday is, in effect, day 47 of Lent! (Might want to correct that bit - page is locked so I can't edit it myself) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.159.9 (talk) 13:35, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

See Lent Rklawton (talk) 13:58, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Lent does not always start on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday is a product of the Latin calendar. Christians of Eastern traditions, by and large, do not have an Ash Wednesday unless later introduced by Latin tradition (Roman Catholic, Protestant) sources. The Latin calendar does not count Sundays within Lent. Other calendars do, and their Lent starts on a different date.Dogface (talk) 06:13, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Pagan Association

Where are the pagan celebrations of Easter? They shouldn't be relegated to the Easter Customs page. Why does Christianity have a monopoly on knowledge about Easter? There is nothing about the origin of the holiday as a spring festival honoring a pagan God or about the practices these people did on this holiday. There should be an entire section devoted to this whether believers can stomach it or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tastybrain (talk • contribs) 18:51, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree, go for it. Larryisgood (talk) 22:48, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

The main point is that the pagan festivals and the Good Friday-->Resurrection Christian event & holiday are completely separate topics. The original location of Christ's ministry would have been - except for Roman occupying forces and administrators, and the few "Greeks" in the land for commercial purposes - totally devoid of pagan practices and worship. The superficial use of the name "Easter" during the times post-2nd Century A.D. was simply a calendar date, and the "bunny" and so forth is not part of the Christian canon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HammerFilmFan (talk • contribs) 01:26, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Easter did not originate as a pagan holiday. It originated from Passover.Dogface (talk) 06:14, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

There is strong evidence that Easter did, in fact, originate as an Anglo-Saxon holy event, thus the name, and that the Christian event was grafted on to it, the name relatively unchanged (i.e. minus "month"); see Eostre. :bloodofox: (talk) 08:41, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

There is no "strong evidence". The holiday was celebrated for at least century or two in the Levant and Roman Empire before any "Anglo-Saxon" type people celebrated it. The holiday was known as "Pascha" long before it was called "Easter" by a bunch of smelly northwestern barbarians who did not have the influence or power to dictate what was done in by Christians in Jeruselem, Antioch, Alexandria, or Constantinople. If you have the "strong evidence", show it. Be prepared to accept a professorship at Oxford or a university of similar prestige, since you would have come up with "strong evidence" that overturns the entire weight of legitimate, respectable, and reputable history. The holiday was celebrated by Christians for centuries before the forebears of English speakers began any association with it. I invite you to prove otherwise. I invite you to prove that "Anglo-Saxon" people were celebrating "Easter" by the name or the name "Eostre" or derivatives significantly before the writing of the Pascha Homily of from Miletos (2nd century AD). Please, be my guest.Dogface (talk) 22:47, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

What a funny response. Anyway, I'll be brief; Dogface—if I may use the language of those inferior "smelly northwestern barbarians" to respond to you (English)—you seem to be confusing introduced Judeo-Christian passover with native English tradition (Eostre-month—and broader indigenous Germanic pre-Christian culture in general?), and, as well, are perhaps ignorant of a little something called Proto-Indo-European religion, where we find numerous cognates to Eostre. This, of course, existed thousands of years before the invention of Christianity, and is the main "strong evidence" for why Bede didn't just pull it out of his hat one day. Well, despite the obvious issues with such a scenario. This Proto-Indo-European dawn goddess, for which linguistic evidence attests that Eostre most likely descended from, is also special in that her cognates are well attested.

As a side note, about that smell, well, I'm afraid that the word "soap" not only existed in Old English, but that Pliny records its use by those horrible "barbarians" earlier still... :) :bloodofox: (talk) 23:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

To reiterate previous, archived discussions: The Christian celebration of the resurrection of Christ arose independently of older pagan festivities that may have coincidentally occurred about the same time of year. The fact that English and German speakers name the Christian holiday with a cognate of the name of a pagan goddess does not imply any connection in its origin but is a mere accident of history and linguistics. The fact that some Christians have customs related to Easter that appear to be derived from earlier pagan customs does not mean that the festival itself is derived from paganism, but reflects the practice among Christian converts of reinterpreting former customs to fit the new faith. The "real" meaning of Easter depends entirely on which Easter you're referring to: the Christian festival of the Resurrection, or the collection of secular customs (bunnies, candy, etc.), or a neopagan reconstruction of a pre-Christian celebration of spring. This article is primarily about the Christian festival. Ruckabumpkus (talk) 00:44, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

"Easter", as in "Rites of Spring", is obviously pagan. Passover and the Resurrection are both associated with spring also. The Catholic Church usurped various pagan traditions and overlaid them with Christian references. Eggs, rabbits, springtime and the Resurrection all have in common the idea of "rebirth", "renewal", etc. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:51, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

May I suggest that whoever posted the article from religioustolerance.org check out the talk page archives: this has been covered, many times:[3][4][5]. Neither religioustolerance.org or easterau.com[6] have any worth as sources for this article. Ben (talk) 02:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Just want to point out (again!) that the holiday was not called "Easter" until the 7th century, by which time it had already existed for 600 years. And then it was only called "Easter" in English and German speaking lands. Almost the whole world calls it "Pascha" or some derivative, not Easter.

And ALL information about a goddess named "Eostre" come from Bede the Venerable, who said the name "Easter" was derived from the name of the MONTH - NOT directly from the name of a goddess - and whose cult was long dead by the time the name of the holiday adopted the name of the *month.* This is like claiming that "Good Friday" is pagan on the grounds that Friday was named for Frigga.

Enough silliness. Carlo (talk) 02:02, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Carlo, it is most unwise to comment on something without having read it. In fact, Bede states the following: "Eosturmonath has a name which is now translated "Paschal month", and which was once called after a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honour feasts were celebrated in that month. Now they designate that Paschal season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance" (Wallis, 1999). Bede does state that worship of Eostre had died out by the time of his writing, but it is unclear if he means within his region or what—Anglo-Saxon paganism was still going strong at the time of his writing in some areas. Comparative material does exist in Old High German, as Grimm points out (which is how he reconstructs *Ostara), and broader linguistic cognates have also been identified among other Indo-European peoples, which is how the Proto-Indo-European Dawn Goddess has been reconstructed (the evidence for which still stands even if, for some reason, one removes Eostre from the picture). :bloodofox: (talk) 03:53, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Easter/Ostern Digression

It occurs to me that the English "Easter" correspondence with German "Ostern" is likely not independent, since Germany was converted by Christian missionaries from Anglo-Saxon England who may well have already been using the name Easter to refer to the Christian holiday. Of course this is OR (or rank speculation, really), and doesn't belong in the article. -Ben (talk) 02:20, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Both would presumably stem from a Proto-Germanic form, and forms before that, reaching back to Proto-Indo-European. :bloodofox: (talk) 03:54, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Both roots stem from PGmc, but my point is that the decision to calque "Ostern" to Pascha was made by missionaries speaking Old English. The German Ostern==Pascha equation wasn't made independently from the Easter==Pascha equation in English. Ben (talk) 12:04, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Article’s first picture should be of spring

Easter is a day in spring when baskets full of candy and colored, hard-boiled hens’ eggs are used to celebrate the season of spring. The Easter Bunny or someone puts the candy in the Easter Baskets during the night and in some cases the colored eggs as well. The eggs may usually be colored by the children before Easter. In the afternoon on Easter, the family has a fancy dinner in the dining room or possibly at a restaurant. The traditional Easter meat in celebration of surviving winter is well-baked ham, which has a different taste than Thanksgiving turkey and Christmas roast beef. A minor part of the day is attending church in the long morning. During church the story of Jesus being found alive again is retold. Not everyone goes to church, and until the evangelical movement of the late 1970’s and early 80s, Jesus being found alive again 2000 years ago was treated as less proven and far less important than candy being put in the Easter Baskets during the night. The season of spring, however, is witnessed on large parts of the Earth every year, and that season is basically what Easter got its name from, when sunrise is more directly eastward bringing warmer days than during winter. It has nothing to do with human fertility, but rather that of farm land. The first picture in this article should be of spring leaves and flowers. That would give the article a more neutral point of view, because Easter is also a secular holiday. Before CNN and so forth, Spring Break was called Easter Vacation. Also, the picture of Jesus standing by the empty tomb is not accurate. In the story, an angel spoke to the women at the tomb. Jesus was not there. --Rhbsihvi (talk) 18:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)